Mars B4 Moon postings

SpaceNut · 2023-02-19 15:23:19

Wow I missed this very large post. I had come here to note a 2 page of refreshed topics to review. I see that some of the post is news links to add to that favorite to read from.

tahanson43206 · 2023-03-31 07:37:46

For Mars_B4_Moon...

I asked BARD two questions from you ...

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 61#p208361

I would be quite interested in your evaluation of the response from BARD regarding radioactive waste! Was there anything in the reply that was new to you? I would expect you might have already found everything BARD found, so if there was ** anything ** new, it would be a bonus.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-05-01 09:52:28

In the post at the link below, Mars_B4_Moon provides forum readers with a 101 level over view of climate science:

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 73#p209273

SearchTerm:Climate science overview

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tahanson43206 · 2023-05-10 14:39:28

In the post at the link below, Mars_B4_Moon provides the most concise and comprehensive summary of bamboo (for Earth or Mars) that I have seen. It provides hints of where folks might look for further information.

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 07#p209607

SearchTerm:bamboo

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tahanson43206 · 2023-05-15 11:37:32

In the post at the link below, Mars_B4_Moon provides an overview of thinking about time measurement in a variety of Solar system locations.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 81#p209781

One detail that caught my eye is that whoever did the work to which Mars_B4_Moon provided links is apparently aware of the 28 day month upon which the Mars Calendar topic is based, which itself is a result of thinking by RobertDyck long ago. The only refinement I have provided is the re-alignment with the Astronomical year on the last day of the Martian year. This simple expedient eliminates all fussing the the calendar as is such a burden on Earth.

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SpaceNut · 2023-05-25 20:38:29

Once again Mars_B4_Moon, has pushed the topic churn of old and newer topics to more than we normally see for the low activity of new posts. Such that if you have topic that you like that you will need to create a method to help yourself be able to find it so as to keep working on it.
A good example would be my topic of the 1-foot regolith for water to fuel. Same holds for the many that you might want to keep revisiting as well.

tahanson43206 · 2023-06-07 15:25:27

Mars_B4_Moon has contributed many link filled posts to this forum.

This one is in the very top tier, in my estimation:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 62#p210562

The work described is crucial for design and construction of an atom assembler, in addition to all the other applications listed in the article.

Identification of carbon atoms in water is just ** one ** example of countless applications for this technology.

Identification of carbon monoxide in air is another.

Bravo!

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-06-18 10:08:39

Mars_B4_Moon wrote a long post in the Drake Equation topic recently.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 83#p210983

The post includes a report on a Chinese science fiction writer, as well as side commentary about the Chinese languate and difficulty of translation.

The post includes a mention of 3000 characters as the bare minimum for a basic level of literacy in China.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-06-22 09:09:50

Mars_B4_Moon wrote a synopsis of the Titanic situation and prospects in this post:

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 48#p211148

SearchTerm:Titanic debris field and preservation efforts

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tahanson43206 · 2023-10-07 06:25:52

Mars_B4_Moon wrote an overview of "war" in the new "war" topic by RobertDyck.

The post includes coverage of the male propensity to engage in aggression, which seems to me likely to continue in the human genome.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 49#p214549

SearchTerm:War Author:mars_b4_moon

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tahanson43206 · 2023-10-09 06:48:53

For Mars_B4_Moon and post in ChatGPT topic ....

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 57#p214657

Thank you for sharing the essay by ChatGPT in the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The version you published looks to me like a first draft. You can (if you so choose) ask ChatGPT to review it's work and look for duplication / redundancy you may have discovered when you reviewed the work. This is no different than what you would do if you were a professor reviewing a paper, or an employer looking at a proposal prepared by staff.

Thank you (again) for this interesting experiment.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-10-21 12:09:58

For Mars_B4_Moon re Post #5 in new topic Peace (etc)....

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 83#p214983

This is another of your many comprehensive historical views. It covers a wide sweep of geography, time and personalities.

It does not appear (as I read it) to offer guidance for folks who might hope to create a successful, long lasting culture on Mars, except that it shows over and over again, how not to do things, from Earth history.

You do offer Sweden and Singapore as possible models for study.

***
On a different (but related) subject, I noticed your link to a story about how a high (over 50) percentage of Islamic refugees in a European country have been arrested for crimes of various kinds. It crossed my mind that crossing an imaginary boundary from one nation to another does not change the attitudes or beliefs of an individual in the slightest.

The US has a procedure for granting citizenship .... it is a lengthy process that (apparently) involves learning ** something ** about the culture of the United States, and a little bit about the ways things are supposed to be done here. We have born-here citizens who disdain all of the history of the Nation, and ignore all precedents and traditions. There appear to be millions of such persons.

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tahanson43206 · 2023-10-23 07:09:45

For Mars_B4_Moon re recent post in War topic ...

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 94#p215094

Thank you for this comprehensive and detailed review of the violent history of Islam.

Search term:Islam review of violence over centuries, with focus on current Hamas/Israeli conflict.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-10-24 17:40:10

For Mars_B4_Moon re post on fire ....

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 51#p215151

I'm amazed you got past Apache Server Error !!!

Thanks for developing the opening line about robots and fire fighting into a comprehensive flow. Thanks for putting in a kind word for the military.

I am sure you will be watching for additional news about robots developed for fire fighting.

Other applications where I'd like to see robots deployed are underground, with human supervisors on the surface, in comfortable air conditioned control rooms.

Update at 20:50 local time 00:50 UTC ... The test configuration is holding together well.... the presentation has been playing with high fidelity on the audio-only machine. I sent an email invitation to newmarsmember, and that invitation will show up in tomorrow's daily report.

I'm interested to see what it looks like. I'll hold the session open until 1 AM UTC ....

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-12-24 11:51:43

For Mars_B4_Moon ...

In watching your back-and-forth with a ** real ** rocket engineer, I felt sympathy as your fantastic visions gave way to reality.

However, I found a NASA demonstration that a 150 meter diameter balloon ** can ** fly at 28 miles on Earth. That is the floor on Mars.

GW has shown you how to create your artistic vision of balloons wafting across the landscape, but you don't seem to have recognized the gift as a gift.

You now have ** Real Universe ** authentication for your visions. All you have to do is to enlist your artistic talent to fill skies of Mars with balloons.

All you have to do is to make them 150 meters in diameter, and as light as the NASA balloon, and they will be able to lift and float while carrying a modest payload. The NASA ballon carriied half a ton to 28 miles on Earth, so in the lower gravity of Mars that same balloon should be able to lift that same mass a few feet off the surface, and perhaps a bit more if the payload mass is reduced.

You can have your balloon engineers make the walls of irridescant material and you can illuminate the interior with light to play on the walls, so the balloon will shimmer in view for hundreds of kilometers. You can advertise your wares for all to see.

You can update the displays in real time with orbital internet feeds as well as ground based ones.

It is time for you to get over Grumpy, and become whatever Spirit is your choice for this venture.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-12-24 15:16:26

It can take many many months or years for a Rover on the Moon or Mars just to travel 20 miles or 32 km, years upon years of Earth time passing. Curiosity the Nuclear powered rover is doing better than Solar powered Rovers but it is looking bashed up and knocked around by the Martian landscape, so people are once again considering other methods of travel for Mars colonists, trains and aircraft.

The Basin of Hellas is almost a different world to Mars itself, possibly enough pressure for flowing liquid salty waters, 12.4 mbar or 1240 Pa and some very strange exotic unexplained Phenomenon features seen by orbiting satellites.

Here is the reality humans at a remote research station we see that we as humans need help at times, a small box of vitamin pills to be healthy and often need contact even if its a hand written 'letter'. Another reality is Aircraft are now flying on Mars when we often said on these forums and across the scientific web they would not, it could not be done even some experts said. Hellas the reality of it having a completely different weather system to the rest of Mars and we are 'human' not prefect machines which in a way makes us interesting and sometimes even rocket engineers can sometimes overlook a place or be wrong, sometimes maybe won't admit an error because of an emotion and or we put a lot of effort into writing up a post and graphs, we feel we should have been thanked more for a post and maybe while respecting each other we do know people are truly human and make mistakes. We don't always get things correct and even guys making those rockets see those rockets explode all the time. We have seen posts on how an in-situ vehicle might one day transport stuff on Mars, maybe not a big payload maybe something the size of 'A Cat' someone said and the average weight for a typical cat is around 10 pounds or 4.5 kilograms, this at least is a real figure and a workable number that we can see what mass is moved around. In science some guys will not give you a number, other guys testing material or calculating stars or observing particles at CERN, they obsess over a tiny Margin of error in statistical measure, a test that has a 0.01 margin of error might still be 'wrong' it can not be put into theory until more tests are run, more examination of tiny variables and uncertainty and more real world models are built having more Verification and Validation that chance of error is so tiny that it is acceptable to dismiss it. If some person reacts in frustration and tells you that almost Twice of a near-nothing of a something is still an 'almost near-nothing of an almost something' what does that mean to you, is it even a number? Do you have a specific mathematical number to work with? Is it scientifically good use of the English language and a sound logical way of thinking? However if someone else also of equally qualified scientific background gives you real data for a vehicle in region, if someone else tells you they can one day have a local made vehicle at a site that lifts 10 pounds or 4.5 kilograms, at least that seems like something real to work with, you have real numbers. It can deliver maybe seeds for a farm, give a local doctor supply of medical pills from one Mars site to another in the same region. The vehicle described in another persons paper, you read the data and see it might deliver a water filter, a spark plug electrical device for that failed engine in your bio-fuel factory, it can deliver physical Letters and Mail and 'Astronauts' say hand written 'mail' is one of the things they look forward to most on the ISS and good for 'morale' it might deliver a small laptop or drive or memory stick, maybe it delivers semen ovaries for your mini animals in your farm or Biosphere. Maybe your flying vessel with small payload delivers a vaccine that can be replicated or in the far future delivers nano bots which build other nano-bots. If a payload is dropped or lands with a certain miles or short kilometers of a site perhaps robotic Rover might be sent out to retrieve the packages dropped rather than risk a human expedition, maybe all the human need is a 'letter' vitamin pills and a spark plug, all they wanted to keep moral up on a base was a Postcard, a Christmas Card or something to mark an Anniversary. Keeping far away colonies in contact on Mars might be classed as 'good behavior' an important feature for morale the human populations that might take a little more work than a Hardy Cyborg or emotionless Robotic Humanoid worker, we are human we might need that letter delivered or need vitamin pills.
Here are some other numbers, density of hydrogen at 1 kPa 200 K
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=de … +kPa+200+K
density of hydrogen at 1 kPa 250 K
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=de … +kPa+250+K
Mars missions even using 1990s US Dollars can cost $150 million plus and $25 million for a payload, or can cost $813 million today, to the Billions when inflation is factored in. Space-X is launching satellites, flying to the ISS, it is now launching space exploration payloads for South Korea and the ESA and Space-X will probably soon offer trips to Mars but it will still be massively expensive to ship anything all the way from planet Earth, it would be better if colonies could produce something locally on Mars and discover a way of shipping Martian homemade products to each other.
At the very least mapping the weak Magnetic field of Mars too low for satellites, an Aircraft flying or a Balloon carrying its own sensor will at least begin to map the magnetosphere which is weak and patchy but will provide info on radiation and the impact of the CMEs.

Does Mars have a global mean standard air pressure like we have on Earth, Mars has different air but the 'Martian Areoid' represents an equipotential surface standard of the Goddard Mars Gravity Model. A link provided by SpaceNut shows Earth's atmosphere also changes, it has good and bad conditions for flying anything huge and compared to Mars you will be flying small mass and the dynamic range of air pressure at the Earth's surface is only 3.14. On Mars there will be transport of smaller payload maybe seeds for a bio farm, maybe medical pills for farm animals but transporting over a lager distance than a Rover can offer, the range of air values on Mars is great, on a link provided by SpaceNut the atmospheric pressure on the surface of Mars has dynamic range of 38.5 = 1155/30.

Some people can be accused of obsessing over the Mountains and Highlands, maybe I could be accused recently of obsessing with Low Crater Basin Planitia. This forum over the years has so many posts and personality each with their own project and ideas from many amazing people over the years, I remember a talented guy GCNRevenger for example, a very skilled guy in engineering and 'Nuclear' ideas and general math and physics knowledge telling me and others that an ion-drive or electric Ion thruster would always amount to nothing in exploration, the prediction was backed up by his math and it said that all it would ever do is slowly adjust the orbit of a small space station or satellite maybe. When Deep Space 1 came it was kind of a fluke a stunt or NASA / JPL almost magically pushed the envelope but it was not a serious mission the older Generation said and should not be taken serious...the ion drive will not fly, then came ESA Smart-1, then came NASA Johns Hopkins DART mission and we now have all kinds of new ideas and designs for ion power. GCNRevenger then started to sound like an old guy, an expert in his knowledge of Horse drawn Carriage, Horse Breeds, Four Wheeled Horse drawn Coaches but refusing to see how new ideas were moving, we also had many many old threads of mathematical numbers run showing us how an airplane or helicopter would never fly on Mars but they got one to fly.

Then it changes during Covid, in April 2021 the first flight on another world and NASA has flown a Helicopter on an elevated region compared to Hellas, flying within a deep crater, Ingenuity, nicknamed Ginny, we are told this is a fluke, an almost magic on-off freak event a feat that is more of a stunt and should not be taken serious for moving anything of significance. NASA's helicopter flying compared to Earth roughly equivalent to a helicopter flying at 34,000 m (112,000 ft) altitude in the atmosphere of Earth and yet we have much higher feats achieved, for example 176,000 ft by a JAXA Balloon is much higher. The Aircraft and Balloon has been replaced by the Train which is more economically efficient used for practical purposes transportation by bulk on railways, it could be a very long time before Mars has a workable rail and subway system. The number of 176,000 ft by Japan's Balloon test is a much higher figure than Ginny's 112,000 ft Earth equivalent.

Nothing today has landed inside Hellas but maybe that will soon change, it is a giant area and has its own unique weather system different to Mars itself. When I talk of Flying Aircraft and Balloons I don't think much of the 'Highlands' but MERs Spirit, Opportunity, Insight, Curiosity all explored elevated ground, Ingenuity is not that deep in the crater, it approximately minus 2600 meters below the ‘Mars Areoid’, the analogous to sea level on Earth, the Basin of Hellas however is huge bigger than Canada's Northwest Territories, bigger than California bigger than 'Texas' bigger than Alaska, bigger than the largest Canadian province by area Nunavut, bigger than Australia and bigger than the USA itself and it is deeper than Everest is high 8800 + meters down.

There is a speculation that NASA and China plan to send the first crewed missions to Mars and into the Basin, Hellas is over 9,000 m 30,000 ft deep, it is an area bigger than the USA and deeper than Mount Everest on Earth is high. Hellas is one of the largest Basins, one of the largest known impact crater in the entire Solar System

Which parts of Mars are the safest from cosmic radiation?
https://phys.org/news/2022-05-mars-safest-cosmic.html
However, the level of radiation exposure depends on just how thick the atmosphere is, which changes due to altitude. Within low-lying areas like Mars' famous canyon system (Valles Marineris) and its largest crater (Hellas Planitia), atmospheric pressure is estimated at over 1.2 and 1.24 kPa, respectively.

tahanson43206 · 2023-12-29 08:36:28

For Mars_B4_Moon ... something you said recently reminded me of the king who legend says commanded the tide to stop before it wet his feet. I had forgotten the details, and indeed, it appears there is quite a bit of uncertainty about what might have actually occurred. However, considering the range of your interests and reading, I thought this collection of Snippets by Google might stimulate more creative writing:

King Canute and the tide - Wikipedia
Canute
In Huntingdon's account, Canute set his throne by the sea shore and commanded the incoming tide to halt and not to wet his feet and robes. Yet "continuing to rise as usual [the tide] dashed over his feet and legs without respect to his royal person.
King Canute and the tide - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › King_Canute_and_the_t...
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Canute and the Waves: A Misunderstood Story – Kelly Evans
kellyaevans.com
https://kellyaevans.com › nqhistory › waves-2
Canute the Great (985/95 to 1035) was the most successful ruler of the Anglo Saxon period. At the height of his power he was King of England, Denmark, ...
The King Canute Dispute - Where Did He Try to Stop the Tide
First Class Sailing
https://www.firstclasssailing.com › blog › the-king-can...
May 27, 2014 — After failing to hold back the tide, King Canute removed his crown, hung it from a crucifix and never wore it again in honour of Almighty God.
The Story of King Canute
Seven Districts Coffee
https://sevendistrictscoffee.com › Fables
King Canute then said to the rising tide, 'You are subject to me, as the land on which I am sitting is mine, and no one has ever resisted me. I command you, ...
King Cnut The Great
Historic UK
https://www.historic-uk.com › HistoryofEngland › Ki...
Jul 20, 2022 — The fable about King Cnut trying to command the tide of the sea, written 100 years after his death by Henry of Huntingdon, still remains ...
King Canute - a fun poem for kids
history-for-kids.com
http://www.history-for-kids.com › king-canute
The arrogant and foolish king who thought he could stop the tide from coming in? Well think again. In fact, Canute (or Cnut) was a wise and good king.
King Canute
Performance Trust
https://www.performancetrust.com › fritzreport › king...
Mar 23, 2022 — To demonstrate this to all his lackeys, he commanded that his throne be put down on the beach at low tide and then marched the whole court down ...
Is King Canute misunderstood?
BBC
https://www.bbc.com › news › magazine-13524677
May 26, 2011 — Earlier this year, MP Frank Field warned David Cameron to "stop being King Canute" if he wanted to avoid being "overwhelmed by the incoming tide ...
Cnut
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Cnut
Cnut also known as Canute and with the epithet the Great, was King of England from 1016, King of Denmark from 1018, and King of Norway from 1028 until his ...
King Canute and the Virus Tide
American Institute for Economic Research
https://www.aier.org › Daily Economy › History › Crisis
Aug 13, 2020 — King Canute insisted that his throne be taken to the edge of the ocean where he thereupon commanded the tide not to rise. ... tide, King Canute's ...
Related searches

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tahanson43206 · 2024-01-04 12:22:36

For Mars_B4_Moon ....

Thanks for bringing back the old topic from 2004 ... I see SpaceNut was a participant...

Must respondents seem to agree with you that the idea of the topic creator was incorrect and bull headed or worse.

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 94#p218094

I liked the link to the Musk story ... the author seems to have been looking for right wing boogey people, and came pretty close with Dr. Zubrin.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-02-16 15:00:17

For Mars_B4_Moon ...

Thanks for bringing back a topic from 2007 ....

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 85#p219385

As time passes, and more probes are launched to investigate Solar System bodies, it is possible that otherwise quiet topic may see more action.

Your post is a nice boost!

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-02-22 22:25:06

For Mars_B4_Moon ...

Thank you for those ** two ** detailed and thoughtful posts about music on Mars.

I noted your inquiry about Dr. Schmidt's concerns ... The article is not available online, so I'll have to transcribe the pertinent passages.

Your observations about dust in the air were (are) a helpful reminder life in a Mars settlement will require well functioning air cleaning equipment and meticulous procedures for movements between indoors and outdoors.

It appears you may not have had time to look at RobertDyck's work on Large Ship ... if you ever get a chance to look at it, you'll find the 3-5-8 rule carefully explained. The reason for that atmosphere prescription is eminently practical. It is equally well suited for the Large Ship as it is for Mars habitats.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-03-04 07:49:11

For Mars_B4_Moon re Post in Borders topic ...

Thanks for finding and showing the link to the US News analysis of Sisi's policy blocking Palestinian access to Egypt ... I read every word of that carefully prepared report, and found nothing that seemed out of line with what is generally known. The details of history and current forces at work were presented so that I came away with a better understanding of the policy. That said, I regret it because a new state could have been built for Palestine out of a chunk of the Sinai. That chunk would have had the Mediterranean on one border as with Gaza now, and the country could have been combined into a single entity.

I don't see any chance of a two state solution otherwise, because Israel has been longing to return to it's original borders for 2000 years, since the Romans drove them out. The weight of that history is massive compared to the mere hundreds of years of Islamic occupation of the land.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-03-23 11:21:25

For Mars_B4_Moon re notes on Apache error...

Thanks for that report!

I'll add it to the new topic I've created for working the problem.

And while I'm here, thanks for all the wide ranging new posts, with old topics brought back and new ones created.

(th)_

tahanson43206 · 2024-03-24 19:45:07

For Mars_B4_Moon re LUF ...

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 03#p220803

Thank you for noting the (third) demise of the Millennial Foundation effort!

The original organization folded, so Mr. Savage's wife founded the Living Universe Foundation in 1997. That first effort died out, but a group of whom I was a member brought it back to life in 2011, and it survived for a few years. Only a tiny remnant of the membership are still keeping in touch.

I appreciated your mention of the Isaac Arthur references, and will try to follow up.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-05 17:30:26

For Mars_B4_Moon re NASA Voyager 1 update

In addition to all the other reports and links you've provided, thanks for finding and showing the report on a defective chip in voyager 1.

It's not clear there is a work-around. That chip may not have a bypass option.

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 93#p221393

A cosmic ray hitting the right part of a chip could have that effect.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-06 06:12:01

For Mars_B4_Moon ...

Today's contributions you've added to the forum include another update about AI ...

I am hoping you might keep an eye out for news about a possible policy change at the major media players... I caught a report yesterday, indicating that major Internet companies may be about to adopt a policy to label AI generated content.

I ** think ** names such as Meta/Facebook may be included.

I think this is a good idea, and I hope the major players follow through ...

Your reports on AI always catch my attention, and perhaps others are interested as well.

The forum software does not currently include a report of reads by ** real ** people, but we (Admins) are in the middle of a (long drawn out) process of upgrading our FluxBB 1.5.11 software. As we progress and achieve various milestones, we will have the potential to make useful changes to the environment. For example, it is within the realm of possibility for us to add "Like" capability to our posts.

In addition, we have a potential to be able to count reads by members of the forum, and ignore reads by spammers and web crawlers.

Our status at the moment is that Admin kbd512 is working on updates to permit FluxBB 1.5.11 to run on modern PHP and MySQL software. That project is close to finished. Only a few more updates remain to be completed.

We have a test environment set up and ready to go.

While the primary purpose of the test environment is for the Admins to confirm the updates are working and that no unwanted changes have occurred, it will also be possible for forum members to access the test environment to see what it looks like. It should look just like the existing environment, at first.

(th)

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#40 2023-12-24 11:51:43

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#41 2023-12-24 15:16:26

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#42 2023-12-29 08:36:28

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