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#76 2019-09-01 18:08:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

The duties of law enforcer and subjective penalty was in early times of crossing the oceans of the world fell on the shoulders of the ships Captain and I would see that mars would not be any different in those early years as there will be limited duties for the captain once they land. The second roll of planet law enforcement would naturally fall on the captain for that reason.

My post number 5 of the topic covers the many topics to aid in this aspect.
Robert Dyck as well on the first page would serve as well for this purpose as demonstrated by his posts.

The farming aspects of the plots would be deverse as nutrition and growing season is longer than that of earths. So crop timing is greatly needed as we would want to be able to have food to make salads nearly continous which means stagered plantings of each food type you would like in that salad. Referring to the crop topics and verticle farming plus indoor farming discussions. One must remember just how large a 1 km plot will be.

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#77 2019-09-01 19:58:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Sometimes I have a problem with envisioning the size of metric versus english measurements.

https://www.metric-conversions.org/area … -acres.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre
404px-Acre_superimposed_over_football_fields.svg.png

hillside dwelling
1280px-Castelbouc_Gorges_du_Tarn.jpg

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#78 2019-09-02 11:32:18

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 904

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re today's edits ...

Thanks for adding your plot number to the record for My Hacienda, and for updating the County Recorder record!

I've also added a couple of updates. 

For Louis ... while your plot had no entries until now, I'm wondering if you would be willing to concentrate on the directions you've already written about extensively. I thought of: entertainment, park, recreation .... there may be other specializations you'd want to add to your design.

One thing I think seems assured ... everyone in the settlement will automatically think of Louis' place when contemplating a drink or a meal after a shift, or entertaining guests from "out of town".

To see the Recorder record, search for S e a r c h t e r m: and :r e c o r d e r   / author: tahanson43206

(th)

Edit SpaceNut:
Sagan City is now defined as Plot0000 Master plan
Plots for waste recovery and pipelines are now in the registry as well

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#79 2019-09-03 17:49:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

I would say that plot0000 master plan for timing and build up of the population of mars is done for the next couple of decades at which as more flight to mars take place not from just one group of intended settlers then the plan must be revisited to guide the future mars.

Plot0001 Law and order can reside in plot0003 until population has suceeded in giving enough bodies to build the permanent seat on its plot to govern mars from.

current plot registry assigned purposes

tahanson43206 wrote:

Plot allocations for Sagan City (2018):

0000 Louis Mater plan for Sagan City
0001 Louis Entertainment Facility Park Recreation
0002 RobertDyck Proposed:  Law and order seat of power
0003 SpaceNut Proposed: Toehold settlement
0004 Terraformer Bamboo and Paper
0005 JoshNH4H
0006 tahanson43206 Proposed economic activity: Banking: First Bank of NewMars
0007 kdb512 Proposed: Nuclear power facility
0008 SpaceNut Proposed economic activity: Support of Mobile Exploration Train
0009 Proposed economic activity: Support of Exploration Teams
0010 Proposed economic activity: Support of Exploration Teams
0011 RobertDyck Proposed: Provisional life support plant
0012 VOID Insitu pipeline manufacturing and connectivity of plots
0013 SpaceNut Waste stream recovery processing
0014
0015

7800 Last plot for Sagan City 2018

Plots numbered above 7800 can be anywhere on Mars.

(th)

SpaceNut
Edits to table of plot owners and proposed purpose
Edit 2019/09/02 ... tahanson43206 ... added more suggestions for plot focus
Edit master plan topic for Sagan City
Edit Void award in memory of contribution

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#80 2019-09-04 09:39:03

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 904

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re p l o t 0 0 1 2 in honor of Void ...

I really like the idea of remembering void, but I'm concerned that the plot will languish without an owner who is present to update it.

May I offer a suggestion for Plot #12 ?

The community is going to need a memorial location soon enough, and potentially in the first year.

Could I suggest changing the title of #12 to Memorial Gardens, and add the name "Void" to the title as a gesture of appreciation.

Then, ownership could go to a member (hopefully a new member) who is interested in taking up the specialization of Memorial Services, Planning and Siting.

(th)

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#81 2019-09-04 09:44:14

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 904

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For everyone regarding the My Hacienda topic ...

It is energizing for me to see the My Hacienda topic beginning to show some signs of extended life after the initial burst of support from members.

There is a small problem developing ... the FluxBB search tool can easily be confused by a proliferation of expressions of the form: plot####

I'm hoping members will try to avoid cluttering up the search pool by insuring that two and only two citations exist in the archive.

The first should be in the Master Record (see P l o t m a s t e r) or [ p l o t 0 0 0 0]

The second should be in the post that the owner of that plot intended to use as the anchor for a particular plot.

I recognize that I have contributed to the proliferation of excess instances of plot references, and I will clean them up over time.

Thanks!
(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-09-04 09:45:23)

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#82 2019-09-04 17:44:48

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Plot0003 will be considered holy ground and its temporary structures will be removed sometime in the second decade on mars making this the final resting location for a memorial barer in Voids name. The ships that remain on the site will be like museum location for such a plan. The plot0003 ownership would be transferred after full move to plot0012 is complete. There by providing a continual growth of the city by interconnection for the good of the city.

Mater plot table has been update with more business opportunities

Showing the newly added

0012 VOID Insitu pipeline manufacturing and connectivity of plots
0013 SpaceNut Waste stream recovery processing
0014 Grocery/General store
0015 Dental Services
0016 Medical Services/General practitioner
0017 Medical Services/Hospital/Research/Teaching
0018 Hardware/supplies/services
0019 Electrical supplies and services
0020 Plumbing supplies and services
0021 Construction Supplies and services
0022 Materials movement services and storage
0023 Energy supplies and services, excluding nuclear (see Plot0007)
0024
0025
0026
0027

Post #31 indicates self sufficiency and that conflicts with many business as its a requirement of the plot owner to do these things....
So there must be a level that says we are not 100% efficient in fending for the plot for all needs for business to grow.

Edit 9/11/19
Continuing with the initial site being a temporary status these first set of business will seek to set up on Plot 3 with the redundancy sites being on other plots for the future:

Redundanct is the key to survival and the initial work for business proposals will be not different to start.
Discusion on topic Air. Shelter. Water. Food.
Priority list:
Oxygen generation systems
water generation
Food greenhouse
waste removal and recovery or recycling ( feed stock for oxygen and water)
power (progressive use of kilowatt reactors and solar array farms)
new shelters and structures to be built by priority

These 6 temporary will be repeated on shared plots as follows:
0008 SpaceNut Proposed economic activity: Support of Mobile Exploration Train
0009 Proposed economic activity: Support of Exploration Teams
0010 Proposed economic activity: Support of Exploration Teams

They will be duoble of the capability of the first group as they will be needed to support the second landings from the monent that they are there.

Original plot structures will be removed on Plot0003 once permanent much large future support elements are constructed and activated for colony growth some time after the exploration phase of mars first decades of landing.

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#83 2019-09-04 20:50:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Something else to consider for the plot assignment is space between the plots asa planned not all property in use.
images of city street planned plot layouts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_plan

Natural barriers alter the shape but not the acreage

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#84 2019-09-04 21:13:57

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 904

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re #83 ....

There are large sections of the US laid out on square mile grid lines.   I live in a part of the country where those layouts are still in evidence.

Surveyors had to adjust the grid as they worked their way North (because the Earth is a sphere), and every now and then a traveler will encounter a curious jog in the road, caused by the decision to adjust the grid back to square at that point.

Something like that may be required on Mars, if the strict grid concept is applied there.

In thinking about Sagan City (2018) earlier, I had imagined that there would be tunnels under the surface to facilitate movement of people and goods (and delivery of gases, liquids and electricity via conduits), so that surface roadways would be less important than is true on Earth.

However, by planning ahead to insure the custom of reserving a space for a two lane road along the plot lines, as was done in the US layouts described above, the individuals or groups assuming ownership of plots should be prepared for that allocation of space on the landscape.

(th)

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#85 2019-09-05 19:12:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Reminder of the goals

The topic My Hacienda is set up to encourage up to 2750 forum members to build a virtual community.
Each participant "claims" a square kilometer of surface, and shares below surface with the community.
Each Hacienda is a participant in the economy of a thriving interdependent free market.
Each Hacienda provides at least one product or service, and multiple products or services are welcome.

The tunneling for passage would follow the grid in between properties such that you would connect at many possible locations along the 1 km square plots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_level_underground
Since these will have pressure in them the suggest easiest cut and fill will be out for trenching so this leaves boring at a given depth.

Deep level underground refers to constructions 20 metres or more below ground and not using the cut and cover method, especially train stations, air raid shelters and bunkers and some tunnels and mines. Cut-and-cover is a simple method of construction for shallow tunnels where a trench is excavated and roofed over with an overhead support system strong enough to carry the load of what is to be built above the tunnel.

So how wide would the tunnel be is more dependant on the size of the equipment that must pass with in them. People would be easy even in vehicles.

Elon musks company
https://www.boringcompany.com/faq

First, we reduced the tunnel diameter. The current standard for a one-lane tunnel is approximately 28 feet. By using electric autonomous vehicles with alignment wheels, the diameter can be reduced to less than 14 feet. Reducing the diameter in half reduces tunneling costs by 3-4 times.

under ground tunnel images

In essence tunnels are the support means for pipelines of all types to run. That said we will have many to make the installation possible. It would be exhausting for space suits to build them on the surface. Identified as Plot0012... This is the topic which talks to how these tunnels can be used for Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars to which it discusses the use in all formats of gas, liquid and people. The first tunnels might even be used for growing food of all sorts with in them as well.

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#86 2019-09-06 19:39:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Reviewing the powerpoint from the http://www.marshome.org/files2/MarsHome … -12-05.ppt

O2 42.5%, Si 20%, Fe 15%, Mg 5%, Al 5%, Ca 4%, Na 3%, S 2%, P 1%, Cl 0.8%, K 0.6%, Ti 0.6%, Mn 0.3%, Cr 0.2%

Typical mars soils content of minerals

CO2 95.3%, N2 2.7%, Ar 1.6%, O2 0.15%, H2O 0.03%

Atmospheric content at the 5 - 7 mb pressure.

http://www.marshome.org/files2/MarsHome … ecture.pdf

60kPa internal pressure – 10 m of regolith are required

converting kPa to PSI or even Bars would be better for the average person to under stand.... 1 kPa to PSI = 0.14504 PSI

answer is 8.70 which is not a bad pressure to be at for breathing...

The pipeline tunnels will need to be more as the pressure goes up if we are not using a real pipe to cary the product from or to a plot..

Multi-Robot Hillside Excavation Strategies for Mars Settlement Construction

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#87 2019-09-06 20:01:39

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 904

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re #86 ...

The Multi-robot pdf is an impressive find! Thanks!

it is dated 2017 so is quite fresh in 2019.

The first thing I thought of as I started looking at the pdf is RobertDyck's vision of terraced homes North of Vancouver in Canada.

The automated excavation concept developed and modeled by the authors of the paper you linked for us could (surely) be implemented on Earth, and potentially at more than one location.

(th)

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#89 2019-09-10 17:38:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

tahanson43206 wrote:

The topic My Hacienda is set up to encourage up to 2750 forum members to build a virtual community.
Each participant "claims" a square kilometer of surface, and shares below surface with the community.
Each Hacienda is a participant in the economy of a thriving interdependent free market.
Each Hacienda provides at least one product or service, and multiple products or services are welcome.

As of this Sol, the number of plots established in Sagan City (2018) is: > 1 (inventory pending) [Thanks to everyone who registered!]

Recruiting Announcement: People are needed to participate in the Sagan City (2018) Virtual Community

The concept is to imagine life on Mars at the level of current 1st Tier civilization on Earth.  This community is assumed well past startup phases.

The objective is to gain a clear understanding of the operation of market forces in a community of 2750 plots.  Community members have needs.

It will actually take decades to be at the point where the developer will require outside business as the plots are intented to be self sufficient. It will take breakdowns to cause business opportunity to happen for commodities and or assistance for what has failed.

Say the oxygen recycling system fails and deliveries from earth just happened.

That would mean the parts can not be had for a mars cycle for the 2 plus year period.

Its going to be an issue for getting that part if you do not have the cash to get it to you as well.

Hopefully the neighbor will have excess oxygen to allow for purchase but that could als further dig the plot owner into the poor house.

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#90 2019-09-11 12:39:09

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 904

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re #89

First, thanks for your continued support of My Hacienda as a topic!

And then, thanks to RobertDyck for taking a chance on this topic.  I hope it lives up to its potential, over time.

My vision for My Hacienda is a bit different (perhaps) than the consensus I am picking up from forum members.

With the objective in mind of trying to invite folks who are not necessarily Space Enthusiasts to start with, I am imagining Sagan City (2018) as existing at a point in time in the future, AFTER all the hard work of pioneering has been completed.

In fact, the state-of-the-art is the My Hacienda community (as I am imagining it) is remarkably similar to life on Earth in 2019, in first tier countries, or in countries aspiring to first tier status, which includes just about everyone, as far as I can tell.

The distinction of the My Hacienda community, compared to a community of similar size on Earth, is that it is located on Mars, where conditions are well defined and not likely to change for at least 100 years.

So the time frame of My Hacienda is somewhere in the 50 to 100 years distance.

Thus, I am proposing that a member of the community can publish a hankering for fresh tomatoes, and someone with the appropriate entrepreneurial interests can undertake the thought process for how to produce high quality tomatoes for that customer, on Mars.

The prospective producer of tomatoes will need a number of things from the community, and those will need to be supplied by entrepreneurs who have an interest in those specialties, and who are willing to go through the thought process to figure out how to provide those goods or services on Mars.

In my vision for this hypothetical community, there is a definite place for imports from Earth.  For example, this weekend on Mars, folks might enjoy a sip of Guinness Stout, imported from Earth at great expense by Louis of Louis' Entertainment Emporium.

I can easily imagine a cubic centimeter of this precious substance costing 100 Phobos (One Phobos is presumed to have an interplanetary valuation of $1 US).

Hopefully Louis will still be able to make a small profit, after paying the transportation company.

Regarding delivery of supplies from Earth, I think it is reasonable to assume that deliveries will arrive at least monthly, because freight shipments in particular can take as long as necessary without inconvenience to anyone.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-09-11 12:40:40)

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#91 2019-09-11 19:08:34

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,806

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

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