New Mars Forums

Kliper is also being designed to operate completely autonomously, without the need for pilot control. "It's got to be capable of automatic flight," Thirkettle says.

Some on the team hope Kliper would be able to travel to the Moon, "but I think there's a little bit of science fiction in that", he says. The faster speed and higher heat experienced during re-entry into Earth's atmosphere from the Moon require an aerodynamically and thermodynamically different design than those currently on the table, he explains.

"It could well be that Kliper is a truck that goes backwards and forwards to low-Earth orbit and a different system takes you to the Moon," he says.

Kliper may be launched on an upgraded Soyuz rocket from Kazakhstan's Baikonur Cosmodrome or ESA's South American spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7901

there may also be Russia plans for Venus,
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpB … php?t=1156
the Moon and Mars and Soyuz launching from ESA's space port

http://www.space.com/news/mars_fun_030824.html
http://www.thespacesite.com/community/i … topic=1252
http://www.rednova.com/news/space/16094 … ture_film/

Also watch out for Stranded: Náufragos and CapricornOne with Elliott Gould and O.J. Simpson

very good that the last Shuttle flight done so well even if there were debris falling off and tile problems
the last mission was very good and they did a spacewalk repair

here's info on the next launch:

HURRICANE Katrina will cost NASA at least $US1.1 billion ($1.4 billion), the space agency said in its first assessment of the toll at its facilities along the Gulf of Mexico.

The storm was likely to set back NASA's plans for another shuttle launch next year.

The hurricane hit the Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans, which assembles shuttle fuel tanks, and the Stennis Space Centre in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, which tests shuttle rocket motors.

"You can't just watch it on TV and get a feel for the devastation that I have seen down here on the Gulf Coast," the head of NASA's hurricane recovery efforts, Bill Parsons, said. "It's just unbelievable ? our first priority is to take care of our people."

Bill Gerstenmaier, NASA's newly named associate administrator for space operations, put the preliminary damage estimate at $US1.1 billion, but it was unclear whether that figure included the cost of lost production as well as damage to facilities and equipment.

The agency is still assessing the storm's impact to its work force.

Australia on Friday said it would donate A$10 million (US$7.7 million) immediately to the American Red Cross as well as sending a team of emergency management specialists to identify what other help could be offered and providing services where most needed.Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, an arch-critic of the U.S., offered to send a team of search and rescue workers. South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun said in a letter to Bush hoped the affected region would recover quickly, while Chinese President Hu Jintao expressed confidence that resilient Americans would be able to rebuild their homes and lives. Israel, another country with extensive experience in emergency-relief, offered to send specialized teams, and Germany offered water treatment facilities, mobile shelters and anything else that may be of help. "Of course, we know that the United States of America has enormous resources of its own," Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said in a statement released by the German Embassy. "But we want, at least, to be prepared if in one case or another assistance is needed and we are able provide it - and we are able to provide a lot in this sector." The embassy also launched a private initiative to raise funds from German citizens, companies and organizations in the U.S. The Canadian military  has set aside a number of Hercules Aircraft C130, in case the United States calls, and is in the process of packing a ship with a helicopter, water purifying equipment, and electric generators that could sail for the Gulf of Mexico at a moment's notice.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair led world leaders' pledges of aid to hurricane-stricken areas of the U.S. Friday with an offer to help "in any way we can.""The whole of this country feels for the people of the Gulf Coast of America" who have been hit "by what is a terrible, terrible natural tragedy," he said.
Blair's comments added to a growing catalog of prayers, messages of condolence and pledges of money and aid that have been offered from countries across the globe in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. France, "determined to show its solidarity with the United States," offered a range of aircraft and two ships, with helicopters and planes capable of airlifting tons of supplies, a disaster unit with 20 soldiers, a civil defense detachment of 35 people and an airborne emergency unit, the French Embassy said. The European Union said it was ready to offer any assistance in the wake of "what is perhaps the greatest civil emergency in U.S. history."But despite the increasingly desperate situation on the ground, the Bush administration has sent mixed signals about whether it will take these global well-wishers up on their offers.
The whitehouse however said that the United States had not requested foreign help and didn't need it.

I'm not sure of the details, but no doubt this recent surge in forest fires from Europe and Hurricane activity will open up the debate again. Qualitative indicators like sea ice coverage, spring thaw dates, and melting permafrost provide strong additional evidence that trends have been positive at middle and high northern latitudes, while glacier retreat suggests warming aloft at lower latitudes. NOAA had already predicted above normal 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, the latest report is that a complete evacuation of New Orleans has been ordered. Plans are to air drop sand bags into at least one of the levy breaches, and open a breach at another location in hopes it will help the flood waters drain.  Virginia Burkett, directors of the Louisiana State University, Ivor van Heerden, Chris Mooney, and the US army Stephen Leatherman made many reports on the risks to New Orleans. Leaders should have the possiblity of a real chance their city being totally destroyed tomorrow very serious. Congress in recent years have repeatedly cut funding for hurricane preparation and flood control. Because of the budget cuts, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents. Apparently, the levee that broke (and is causing the subsequant deluge that is still flooding in) was only designed to withstand a Catagory 3 hurricane.

A number of meteorologists believe that there is not a link between gobal warming and storms, there has also been a recent model study on how the storm statistics can be affected by a global warming. There would be more power or intenisty given to the Tropical cyclone-TC or Hurricane and a likely consequence of a future warming is an upward trend in the destructive potential of TCs. A Catagory 5 protection could've been built, but it was deemed not "economically feasable" according to the study that was done locally when they were designing/upgrading the damn thing. So..now they've got flooding, bodies floating in the water, people cut off from rescue, looting, rescue people being shot at by snipers, ...the horror. Even though Hurricane Katrina has moved well north of the city, the waters may still keep rising in New Orleans. Other parts of the nation were also badly hit, building collapse was in Biloxi Miss. They expect to find more bodies though. CNN says that 80% of New Orleans is underwater. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars. Newhouse News Service, in an article posted late Tuesday night at The Times-Picayune Web site, reported: "No one can say they didn't see it coming. ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation." New Orleans descended into anarchy as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out and storm survivors battled for seats on the buses that would carry them away from the chaos. An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet. In Mississippi, curfews are in place in the hard-hit towns of Biloxi and Gulfport as the authorities try to prevent the scale of looting seen in New Orleans. New Orleans' extensive levee system was built to withstand a strong category three storm. When Katrina appeared on the weather maps it was a category five - the strongest Atlantic hurricane in a generation.

Thanks for the link Spacenut

let's hope they can push ahead with this mission nonetheless or find alternative means to fund the mission

Under the Geneva Conventions, cluster bombs are criminal weapons because it is impossible to use them in significant numbers without indiscriminate effects.
Massive Ordnance Air Burst (MOAB) bomb were very successful in mass killings.
The bomb, nicknamed the "mother of all bombs," is officially known as the Massive Ordnance Air Blast. It replaces the Vietnam-era "Daisy Cutter," a 15,000-pound bomb with 12,600 pounds of the less-powerful GSX explosives.
The bomblets are bright yellow and look like beer cans. And because they look like playthings, thousands of children have been killed by dormant bomblets in Afghanistan, Kuwait and Iraq. Each bomblet sprays flying shards of metal that can tear through a quarter inch of steel.
Although U.S. forces sought to limit what they call "collateral damage" in the Iraq campaign, they defied international criticism and used nearly 10,800 cluster weapons; their British allies used almost 2,200.
Human Rights Watch reports that thousands of Kuwaiti and Iraqi civilians have been killed, many more injured, by explosive duds following the Persian Gulf war.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq … over_x.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/ … moab.gulf/

just goes to show some of the ranting loonies clearly don't know squat about Taiwan nor have they ever set foot in the dump know as Taipei

Taiwan is alright, check it out for yourself
but it ain't heaven on Earth unlike some of the US Neo-Cons would tell you

its somewhat better than mainland China with a slightly better standard of living because they didn't have to go through all the rubbish that Mao's dictatorship inflicted on the Mainland

Taiwan and Chiang and the KMT set it self up by the massacre of about 45-55 thousand socialst or leftists to ensure they would get a strong foothold in Taipei
the Capital city is kind of a dump, not the best place to live and was oppressed under martial law and had little freedom unlike what the Neo-Cons would tell you
Powell's Comments in China had already Riled Taiwan
There is now the one-China policy but this had even started in Nixon's days
Armitage had said the "peaceful rising of China" will most likely be the most important event and the US is not required to defend Taiwan.
Even Hollywood Jackie-Chan films are banned in Taiwan because of the positive image the movies give HongKong

My response to most Taiwan topics will be simply
Blah Blah Tiawan.... bloody yap yap, Taipei natter natter... bla bla
if I want to discuss Iraq torture, Maoism, the US bombing of El Salvador, China's communist nonsense,  Camp Xray and amnesty International's report on  guantanamo and all the other misery around the globe I would spend my time in free-chat
the Taiwan rubbish

it is a worthless discussion
and has little to do with China's aerospace technology, Chinese Lunar goals, or Shenzhou launcher designs.

Some have though that there may be a Vulcanoid rock region inside the orbit of Mercury, although neither Mariner missions nor the NASA/ESA Soho have found anything

Gaia might be the mission for this it will measure Galaxies, extra-solar planets, do a 3d map of a billion suns and also Gaia is able to view the 'blind spot' found between the Sun and Earth's orbit and from Earth, we can only observe this area during the daytime one group known as the Atens could be dangerous, maybe it can also look for evidence of the existence these Vulcanoids.

http://www.astronomytoday.com/exploration/gaia.html
here is the new-mars Gaia thread
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1443

Bepi-Colombo looks like it may be a joint ESA and Japanese mission. Just as MESSENGER is arriving at Mercury, ESA's BepiColombo mission will be lifting off the launch pad.

This could be a very good mission

sounds like a great idea

Some info on the ExoMars orbiter and MSR project by ESA

http://www.corriere.fantascienza.com/notizie/4628
http://www.isst.cz/STUDENTI/GERSL%20OND … emars3.jpg
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Aurora/SEMOJ7RMD6E_0.html
http://www.space.gc.ca/asc/img/mars_exomars.jpg
http://www.liquifer.at/projects/1xg/mar … _rover.htm
http://www.sondasespaciales.com/modules … le&sid=493

ESA Rover -
Looks very like the Russian lunokhod-II and Spirit+Opportunity-Rover but with some different features