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If the crossing of the border has a Statute of Limitation while they are still here illegally what is the process after that expiration to funnel them into being American for steps?
Two years
Statute of Limitations on Crimes Such as Illegal Entrance into the US
The statute of limitations for illegal entrance into the United States is generally two years from the date of the commission of the crime. This means that the government has two years from the date of the illegal entry to bring criminal charges against an individual. However, this is a general rule, and specific circumstances may affect the statute of limitations. For example, if the defendant has fled the jurisdiction, the statute of limitations may be tolled until the defendant's return. Additionally, if an individual has entered the country illegally and then commits another crime, the statute of limitations for the illegal entry may be extended to cover the time period of the additional crime. It is always best to consult with an attorney to determine the specific statute of limitations for a particular case.
Cornell University
Is it not charging for the same crime if its expired?
The principle of double jeopardy protects individuals from being tried twice for the same offense. According to the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, no person shall be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb. This means that once a person has been acquitted or convicted, they cannot be retried for the same crime. However, there are exceptions to this rule, such as mistrials, where jeopardy attaches again, and separate sovereigns can independently prosecute the same conduct without violating the double jeopardy principle. Thus, while the general rule is that double jeopardy applies, there are specific circumstances under which it may not be enforced.
legalclarity.org
Seems that those being deported should only be those that have committed new crimes once they are here.
So what is up with deportation of children age 10 and younger....that have not committed any crime other than being born on US soil? to parent or parents that are of illegal but not criminal after the 2 year period.
I did a bit of shaped dome that covers the inflatable as 2 separate spherical domes experimenting and with the tubing at 30mm OD, 4mm wall, 304L stainless, doubled plus welded together and crossed at 1m spaces can handle the regolith load. The only thing I can see is if the bags can move in the center of the torus structure midline. It looks similar to the geodesic style frame.
Super Heavy + Starship Escape System: Passenger flight Certification
To which human rating is always an issue...
Starhopper+Starship for heavy. Triple-cored Starship for super heavy.
Space X - getting ready for Mars. a 2017 topic
Trying to do without prefilling of numbers being generated making use of excel and auto fill to do my best
starting post is carried from the previous days 2-06-2026 last number for the day 237896 - last post 237926
2-7-26 POSTINGS
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Politics
Politics
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Politics
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Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Block 3 starship first mission
Block 3 starship first mission
Block 3 starship first mission
Block 3 starship first mission
Block 3 starship first mission
Block 3 starship first mission
Peter Zeihan again: and also other thinkers:
kbd512 Postings
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Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day
Not sure how that structure is applied to the total shape of the double torus as that is part of the issues.
Was thinking about the shape of the exoskeleton shape as it needs to reflect the half shape of the double torus as a vertical member that is slowly rotated to form the complete stainless tubing hoops and cross members, taking on the circular and parabolic shape that would make for a stronger structure to hold the regolith mass above it.
It will take more stainless steel but it makes it closer to what we wanted. straps tie downs are required to this exoskeleton to keep the inflatable inside it.
Back when the Bezo Lunar lander RFP were created
SpaceX should withdraw Starship as an Artemis lunar lander.
Frame of mind for the topic in 2005 Building your own Starship
Starship Booster Prototypes beginning soon
Lunar Landing legs for starship
The plates with in can also be tubing bend to the shape and welded to the shaped and have a more open internals.
Planning must also include many other functions to support if we do the care taker approach.
Water plant, Waste recovery, air creation and food
It is possible to turn each starship into more of these from the ships which are not used up yet.
Astronaut daily CO2 production is about 1kg per person and they consume 1 gallon of water per person.
Thermally-Regenerated 4-Bed Solid Amine CO2 Removal System with Air and Water Save Features (CAMRAS): 400W 120VAC constant power draw for 1 of 4 sequentially heated amine beds.
415W average / 526W peak 28VDC power draw for fans, pumps, and control electronics.
4.71kg of maximum demonstrated CO2 removal capacity per day aboard ISS over a 1,000 day test.
The system is therefore "sized" for 4 astronauts, or 1/250th of our colony's head count.For a Thermally-Regenerated 4‑Bed Solid Amine CO₂ Removal System with air and water save features (CAMRAS-class) designed for something like ISS/Orion-class flows:
Ballpark dry mass (single unit): ~80–150 kg
Lower end: aggressively optimized, Orion/short-duration style packaging.
Upper end: ISS-like robustness, more structure, more interfaces.Installed volume / footprint: Think in terms of a rectangular box roughly:
Planform footprint: about 0.4–0.7 m²e.g. something like 0.6 m × 0.8–1.0 m in floor area.
Height: 0.6–1.0 m depending on packaging and access.
So envelope volume: roughly 0.25–0.6 m³ per unit.
Specific capacity (for scaling):
For crew-sized systems, a CAMRAS-class solid amine 4‑bed system is typically sized around: 4–6 crew per unit at ~0.8–1.0 kg CO₂/day/personSo ~3–6 kg CO₂/day per unit is a reasonable design point.
How to use this for your Mars habitat sizing
If you’re doing system-level mass/volume budgets rather than hardware-level replication, a good parametric approximation is:Mass per person (CO₂ removal, solid amine, thermally regenerated):
m_{\text{CO₂,person}} \approx 20\text{–}35 \text{ kg/person (installed, including structure & interfaces)}
for continuous, long-duration operation with redundancy.Footprint per person: ? CO₂,person ≈ 0.05 – 0.10 m²/person assuming you cluster beds into a few larger units rather than one tiny unit per person.
So, for example, for 1,000 crew with N+1 redundancy and some margin, you might budget:
Mass: 1,000 × 25 – 35 kg ≈ 25 – 35 metric tons for the entire CO₂ removal subsystem, including structure, manifolds, and some spares.Footprint: 1,000 × 0.07 m² ≈ 70 m²
which is then arranged in racks, so actual deck area impact is less if you stack vertically.Reality check
Because the exact CAMRAS configuration you named is a specific NASA hardware line, the true numbers will depend on:
Mission profile: flow rate, crew count, redundancy, regeneration power limits.
Packaging constraints: rack vs. wall-mounted vs. modular skid.
Integration: ducting, valves, water-save heat exchangers, and control electronics.926W * 250 = 231,500W of constant power to support CO2 scrubbing for 1,000 colonists, with a 17.75% CO2 removal performance margin for degraded system operation.
Cumulative air mass vented to space over 1,000 days of operation: 16.1lbm, so 4,025lbm over 1,000 days for 1,000 colonists, which equates to 4.025lbm of required atmospheric replenishment per day 78% N2, 21% O2, and 1% Ar. I've no idea how to source the N2 yet, but the O2 can be provided by CO2 and the Martian atmosphere also contains 2.7% Nitrogen and 1.6% Argon by mass.
Cumulative water mass vented to space over 1,000 days of operation: 67.9lbm, so 16.9775lbm / 2.04 gallons per day for 1,000 people. The water save feature of CAMRAS is crucial to life support, otherwise 80.4lbm / 9.64 gallons per day would be lost for 1,000 colonists.
Ionomwer Water Processor (IWP) Assembly peak power draw: 195W
Urine Processor Assembly (UPA) active / standby power draw: 424W / 108W
Water Recovery System (WRS; UPA + IWP) time averaged power draw: 743Wh/hr
743W * 250 = 185,750WISS Waste Water Recovery Per Day: 34.34 gallons / 130L per day (98% recovery rate)
This implies that total water processing for 1,000 colonists will be 2,146.25 gallons per day.
Minimal Life Support Power Draw: 417,250W
That figure does not include fan-based air circulation / ventilation, waste heat removal, or more advanced life support functions such as hot showers and cooking / cleaning, merely the minimum CO2 scrubbing and waste water recovery to keep 1,000 people alive.
It would be reasonable to assume that 417,250W of power draw is ultimately dissipated as waste heat, which needs to be rejected to space via radiators. 1,000 colonists, all working about as hard as they could sustain for 1 hour, would generate just under 98,000W of waste heat.
The fan power to deliver 15 air changes per hour to a 144,000ft^3 / 4,078m^3 auditorium filled with 1,000 people is 36,000CFM, so 36,000CFM * 0.8W/CFM = 28,800W. This structure is approximately 31X larger, so we can probably get away with as few as 4 complete air changes per hour because it's so big. The smaller the interior volume of a structure relative to the number of people inside, the more air changes per hour are required to keep the air fresh. However, that still bumps our total wattage up to 59,520W. If we really want to be completely pedantic about this, then 892,800W is required to provide 15 air changes per hour for a 125,000m^3 internal volume structure. It'll be like living inside a wind tunnel, though, so perhaps that's a bit over-the-top.
3MW worth of power for 1,000 colonists is likely more than sufficient for basic life support functions, to include hot showers and interior lights, especially if we use some of that waste heat to warm up our frosty cold fresh water supply.
would like to find foot print measurements for Ionomwer Water Processor (IWP)
Urine Processor Assembly (UPA)
Water Recovery System (WRS; UPA + IWP)
I dug through the available sources, but none of the search results provide physical footprint measurements (height × width × depth or mass/volume envelope) for:Ionomer Water Processor (IWP)
Urine Processor Assembly (UPA)
Water Recovery System (WRS = UPA + WPA/IWP)
The documents found describe function, technology, upgrades, and performance, but not physical dimensions.
Here is what the searches actually contained:What the sources do cover
IWP: Technology description, membrane design, SBIR announcements, and system goals (e.g., 98% recovery)UPA: Technical papers on upgrades, distillation assembly, and system behavior, but no physical envelope
WRS: High‑level ISS water management descriptions, but no hardware dimensions
Why the data is missing
NASA typically publishes mass, power, and performance for ECLSS hardware, but footprint dimensions are usually buried in:internal configuration drawings
ISS rack integration documents
payload accommodation specs
NASA ECLSS ICDs (Interface Control Documents)
These are rarely available in public-facing technical papers.
What I can give you right now (based on known ISS architecture)
Even though the search didn’t return explicit numbers, we can anchor the expected footprint because:1. UPA and WPA/IWP are housed in standard ISS racks
Both systems are installed in US Lab racks (ISPRs).
A standard ISPR (International Standard Payload Rack) has known dimensions:Parameter ISPR Value
Height 2.0 m
Width 1.05 m
Depth 0.86 m
Usable internal volume ~1.57 m³
Max mass ~700 kg
So the maximum possible footprint for UPA, WPA, or IWP is constrained by the ISPR envelope.2. UPA occupies one full rack (LAB1P4)
This is explicitly stated in NASA documentation:“The Urine Processing Assembly (UPA) was installed in LAB1P4 during ULF‑2 as part of the Water Recovery System (WRS).”
Thus, UPA footprint ≈ 1 ISPR rack.
3. WPA (Water Processor Assembly) also occupies one rack
The WPA is the other half of the WRS.
The IWP is intended as a future replacement for WPA, so its footprint is expected to be ≤ 1 ISPR rack.4. WRS (UPA + WPA/IWP) = 2 racks total
This is consistent with all ISS ECLSS documentation.Practical engineering summary
Here are the best available footprint estimates based on rack constraints:Ionomer Water Processor (IWP)
Footprint: ≤ 1 ISPRApprox. max dimensions:
2.0 m (H) × 1.05 m (W) × 0.86 m (D)Likely smaller, but no public source gives exact numbers.
Urine Processor Assembly (UPA)
Footprint: 1 ISPR (LAB1P4)Dimensions:
2.0 m × 1.05 m × 0.86 m (rack envelope)
Internal hardware occupies most of the rack volume.Water Recovery System (WRS = UPA + WPA/IWP)
Footprint: 2 ISPR racksDimensions:
2 × (2.0 m × 1.05 m × 0.86 m)
Total width: ~2.1 m when racks are side‑by‑side.If you want the exact hardware dimensions
I can help you get them, but I need to know which path you prefer:Option A — I search for NASA rack integration drawings
These sometimes include exact hardware envelopes.Option B — You want engineering‑grade estimates
I can derive realistic dimensions based on:
component masses
pump and distillation assembly sizes
membrane module geometry
thermal control hardware
avionics packagingOption C — You want footprints for Mars ISRU planning
I can scale these systems for:
1–6 crew
1000‑crew colony
surface vs. pressurized habitat integration
power and mass budgets
Which direction would you like to go?scale for 10 crew
See my thinking
For 10 crew, we can treat the ISS WRS (UPA + WPA/IWP) as our baseline module and scale from there.Quick sizing summary for 10‑crew WRS
Item ISS baseline (6–7 crew) Scaled for 10 crew Notes
Crew supported 6–7 10 Linear scaling with margin
UPA racks 1 ISPR 1–2 ISPR Depends on turndown/redundancy
WPA/IWP racks 1 ISPR 1–2 ISPR Higher throughput or N+1
Total WRS racks 2 ISPR 3–4 ISPR Likely 3 if aggressively optimized
Rack footprint (each) 2.0 m H × 1.05 m W × 0.86 m D same ISPR standard
So for 10 crew, you’re realistically looking at:Minimum aggressive design:
3 racks total (e.g., 1.5× ISS capacity with higher‑throughput internals)
Footprint ≈ 2.0 m H × 3.15 m W × 0.86 m D
Conservative / high‑reliability design:
4 racks total (2× UPA, 2× WPA/IWP or 1.5× + redundancy)
Footprint ≈ 2.0 m H × 4.2 m W × 0.86 m DHow I’m scaling from ISS
1. ISS design point
The UPA is explicitly described as being designed for 6–7 crewmembers.
The WRS (UPA + WPA) on ISS supports that crew size with some margin and operates near continuous duty.So: Capacity per ISS WRS ≈ 6.5 crew (midpoint)
2. Linear flow scaling to 10 crew
Assuming roughly linear scaling of water production/processing with crew count:
Scale factor = 10 6.5 ≈ 1.54
That means you need about 1.5× the ISS WRS throughput to support 10 crew with similar margins.3. What that means in hardware
You have three main strategies:
A. Higher‑throughput internals, same rack count (2 racks)
Push pumps, contactors, distillation, and membranes harder.
This increases power, heat rejection, and wear, and leaves less margin.
For a long‑duration or Mars‑class system, this is usually too aggressive.B. 1.5× capacity in 3 racks (likely sweet spot)
Example layout:
1.5× UPA capacity in 2 racks (primary + partial redundant/parallel unit)
1.5× WPA/IWP capacity in 1 rack with denser packing and improved techThis gives you 10‑crew capacity with some redundancy and keeps integration manageable.
C. Full 2× capacity in 4 racks (robust, N+1)
Essentially two ISS‑class WRS lines, cross‑plumbed.
You can lose a whole UPA or WPA line and still support the crew at reduced but survivable capacity.
Best for deep‑space or early Mars base where repair and resupply are slow.Footprint numbers you can actually design around Using the ISPR envelope:
Single rack (UPA or WPA/IWP or IWP‑derived module):
Height: 2.0 m
Width: 1.05 m
Depth: 0.86 mThen:
3‑rack WRS (10 crew, optimized):
Width: 3 × 1.05 m = 3.15 m
Height: 2.0 m Depth: 0.86 m4‑rack WRS (10 crew, robust):
Width: 4 × 1.05 m = 4.2 m Height: 2.0 m Depth: 0.86 m
Trying to do without prefilling of numbers being generated making use of excel and auto fill to do my best
starting post is carried from the previous days 2-05-2026 last number for the day 237884 - last post 237894
2-6-26 POSTINGS
Cost-Effective Credible National Defense
kbd512 Postings double torus exoskeleton
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar. topic relates to Biomes for Mars
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
so far the AI tools compared to each other is giving different response even when feed identical information.
it would seem that shape of a Spherical dome from the 4mm thick is doable.
adding floors and hallways add challenges to keep from buckling and need additional inside structures.
A 9 meter wide, 1 m hallway means a 4 m on either side to the base of the dome which is the 4.5 m radius.
Since a man is considers 2m typical and space above for other stuff as in venting and raising the deck above the ground 0.5 m for plumber make the height about 4 meters as the ceiling above is mostly not useable.
Of course the ends of the quasi Quonset hut is also ending with the same side parabolic shape so as to make the ends an airlock when built or retrofitted to the one's that we might bring.
working the 4mm plate numbers for walls and hallways did allow for 2 plus meters of regolith and 0.5 bar atmosphere.
A typical single or what some call twin mattress is roughly a 1 meter by 2 m in length.
If we lose 9 m for the length of the bunk house we end up with bunks on either side of the hallway that could be 4 m x 3 m with the rib wall divide giving dome support. That makes 17 crew members on each side or less to give way to common wash restroom locations and kitchens/ food stores plus other life support stuff.
open end view
This means no smelting to reform stock materials. Just removal of the bands and cut, plus bend to shape, reweld and begin adding in welded plates to stiffen up the structure for load bearing mass plus pressurization. Giving that first crew a stable method to build going forward until we have sufficient equipment and power on the ground.
sort of like this
depending on floor plan choice the room could have other things to make them more like a room at home.
Place each build next to each other with cross cutting arches making the initial structure grow as we need to build for larger populations.
Lots of topics with starship in the title...
Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.
Alternate BFR (Big Falcon Rocket)
Upcoming Launch Schedule for NewMars members for starship
SpaceX COULD have done a manned lunar mission this year… a 2022 topic creation
while studying the structure of the parabolic shape I found that the wall of the arch is 1 meter thick at the base while as it comes to the top it is 10 cm thick.
The highway that I travel along is doing this type barrier to stop vehicle sound. Thanks again.
Trying to do without prefilling of numbers being generated making use of excel and auto fill to do my best
starting post is carried from the previous days 2-04-2026 last number for the day 237866 - last post 237883
2-5-26 posting
Politics
Politics
Politics
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Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
KBD512 Biosphere structure of cast basalt
Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus
Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus
Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus
Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day
I decided to do some research into the composition and likely melting point of martian black sand. This appears to be the most suitable material for cast basalt on the Martian surface.
Curiosity's Investigation of the Bagnold Dunes, Gale Crater [black sands]
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com … 18GL079032'CheMin data show that sands from Phases 1 and 2 are composed of five main components: plagioclase feldspar, olivine, augite, pigeonite, and X-ray amorphous materials (Achilles et al., 2017; Ehlmann et al., 2017; Rampe et al., 2018). Minor amounts of hematite, magnetite, anhydrite, and quartz are detected in both Gobabeb and Ogunquit Beach, and ~7 wt.% phyllosilicate is detected in Ogunquit Beach.'
Plagioclase feldspar: melting point is 1100°C for sodium based plagioclas, to 1553°C for pure calcium plagioclas.
https://www.science.smith.edu/~jbrady/p … page04.phpMy analysis of this document, which analyses the plagioclase in Martian meteorites, suggests a 60% Ca and 40% Na abundance on average. This suggests that melting will begin at 1220°C and the sample will be fully liquid at 1400°C.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 3709005651Martian olivine appears to average at 30% Fe and 70% Mg, by number density. This suggests a complete liquidus at 1700°C, with melting starting at 1200°C. The two components are quite well intermixed.
https://www.science.smith.edu/~jbrady/p … page04.phpAugite is the most common pyroxene. It melts at ~1000°C.
http://mingen.hk/augite.htmlPigeonite is part of the pyroxine group of minerals. Melting point ~1000°C.
To summarise: Martian black sand consists of a mixture of basalt based minerals. Melting will begin at 1000°C and complete liquidus will not occur until 1700°C. At 1250°C, a substantial fraction of the components are liquid. The material will have the properties of a viscous colloidal paste. This may be suitable for injection moulding. However, the presence of suspended solids within the paste may make it relatively abrasive. We need to keep this in mind when designing equipment that is designed to process this hot material.
On the other hand, this reference suggests that all silicate based basaltic rock will be fully molten at 1200°C and complete solidification can be assumed at 600°C.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb … trock.htmlEither way, temperatures in the ~1200°C range appear to be adequate to turn the sand into a mouldable liquid. The exact reological properties of the liquid (viscosity, solud content, abrasiveness, etc) are things that we would need to test on a simulant material here on Earth, because they have a bearing on exactly how we can use this material. If the liquid is relatively fluid in this temperature range, then we can sand cast it in cast iron moulds. These are things that we could initially import but should be able to make on Mars once we have the ability to produce iron from native materials.
My posted content is here in the topic
FYI Caliban posted about Basalt sands smelting which I quoted from the other topic we have going.
index of topics that relate to starship.
Musk announces upgraded Starship 2.0
Starship to mars count down 273 days to launch now on hold and need a new count down number of days.
Starship is Go... covers all of the development and both mars and Lunar information
Starship Lunar Lander and landing legs of course the Lunar rocket was not to return back then.
Elon Musk says SpaceX will prioritize a city on the moon instead of a colony on Mars
SpaceX’s decision to focus on establishing a lunar city ahead of building a Mars colony represents a significant shift in Elon Musk’s space exploration ambitions
On Sunday Elon Musk said that SpaceX is prioritizing the establishment of a “self-growing city” on the moon over and above his long stated ambition to settle Mars.
In a post on his social media platform X, Musk wrote that a lunar city could be built within the next decade. “The mission of SpaceX remains the same: extend consciousness and life as we know it to the stars,” Musk wrote.
The pivot signals a shift in focus for SpaceX, which Musk has long claimed will help establish human civilization on Mars using the company’s still in development megarocket Starship. This is far from the first time Musk has changed SpaceX’s time line for a Mars mission—in 2016, for instance, he suggested a landing could be achieved by 2018, and he later pushed a potential touchdown to 2022.
Then Musk tweaked the timing again, indicating in 2025 that the company was aiming to launch five uncrewed Starships to Mars this year and that they would be loaded with robots made by his car company Tesla. Importantly, 2026 was considered optimal because where Earth and Mars would be in their respective orbits would cut the journey time to approximately six months. Such ideal alignments occur like clockwork every two years, setting a natural cadence for new Mars missions.
But development of Starship has proved more troublesome than Musk projected, with the rocket experiencing catastrophic failures across multiple test flights in recent years. Additionally, SpaceX is on the hook for a Starship-based crewed lunar landing as the linchpin of NASA’s Artemis III mission, which is meant to be the first human foray back to the moon since 1972. Starship’s ongoing woes are now a key driver of delays for the launch of Artemis III, which NASA recently announced has slipped to no earlier than 2028.
Other factors that have potentially driven SpaceX’s shift are its merger with Musk’s artificial intelligence start-up xAI and a planned push to launch a million orbital data centers. In a February 2 blog post, Musk wrote that the latter project, combined with Starship, could eventually lead to manufacturing and launching satellites from the lunar surface.
In his X post on Sunday, Musk said that SpaceX would resume working toward Mars in the next five to seven years. But he pointed out that establishing a base on the moon would be more efficient.
“The overriding priority is securing the future of civilization and the Moon is faster,” he wrote.
As of February 2026, Elon Musk announced that SpaceX is shifting its primary, near-term focus from Mars to building a "self-growing city" on the Moon. While Mars remains a long-term goal, the Moon is prioritized because it is closer, allows for faster iteration (launches every 10 days vs. 26 months), and secures civilization's future more rapidly.
Key details of this shift:
Focus on the Moon: SpaceX is pivoting to establish a long-term, self-sustaining lunar presence, using the moon as a testing ground and a "stepping stone" to Mars.
Target Dates: An uncrewed lunar landing is targeted for March 2027, with a self-growing city possible in less than 10 years.
Moon over Mars: Despite previously calling the Moon a "distraction," Musk noted that the Moon is faster and safer for building a sustainable civilization.
Starship Utilization: The Starship megarocket will be used for these lunar missions.
Future Mars Ambitions: Mars is not abandoned; it remains a goal to pursue within 5–7 years, but it is no longer the immediate primary target.
This shift also aligns with supporting NASA's Artemis III mission and long-term lunar south pole exploration, which could use SpaceX's Starship for human landings
SpaceX prioritizes lunar 'self-growing city' over Mars project, Musk says
Summary
SpaceX shifts focus to lunar city, Mars project delayed
Musk cites civilization's future, Moon is faster than Mars
SpaceX plans uncrewed lunar landing by March 2027
without bbcode formating
Objective
Estimate equipment types, mass, and power needed—delivered from Earth—to use Mars regolith to produce about 2,300,000 kg of stainless steel for building structures.
Production scale and material flow
Target steel:
Total stainless steel: 2,300,000 kg
Campaign assumption:
Operating duration: ~5 years
Steel per year: ~460,000 kg/year (~460 t/year)
Steel per operational day (≈350 days/year): ~1,300 kg/day
Regolith requirement (order-of-magnitude):
Effective iron-bearing fraction in processed regolith: ~15%
Overall recovery to usable iron: ~50–60%
Net iron yield from regolith: ~8–9% by mass
Regolith per kg of finished stainless (iron from regolith + imported alloying elements): ~7–8 kg/kg steel
So:
Total regolith processed: ~16,000,000–18,000,000 kg (16,000–18,000 t)
Per year: ~3,200–3,600 t/year
Per day: ~9–11 t/day
Energy and power (order-of-magnitude)
Primary steelmaking on Earth is roughly 20–35 MJ/kg of steel (including mining, reduction, melting). Mars will be less efficient initially, so assume:
Specific energy for Mars stainless steel: ~25–40 MJ/kg
For 2,300,000 kg of steel:
Total energy: ~58,000,000–92,000,000 MJ (≈5.8×10¹³–9.2×10¹³ J)
Spread over 5 years of operation (~1.6×10⁸ seconds):
Ideal average power: ~360–580 kW
With inefficiencies, downtime, and margin: design for roughly 2–3 MW continuous electrical, plus substantial thermal management capacity
Major equipment types, mass, and power
All masses are dry hardware estimates; real cargo planning would add ~20–30% for packaging, structure, and integration.
1. Regolith mining and hauling
Function: Excavate ~10 t/day of ore-bearing regolith and deliver it to the plant
Elements: 3–4 autonomous electric loaders/haulers, small dozer, maintenance shelter
Mass: ~40–60 t
Power (while operating): ~150–250 kW
2. Crushing and grinding
Function: Jaw crusher + mill to reduce regolith to fine powder
Mass: ~15–25 t
Power: ~200–300 kW
3. Beneficiation and separation
Function: Magnetic and/or density separation, dust handling, feed hoppers
Mass: ~25–40 t
Power: ~300–400 kW
4. Chemical reduction furnaces
Function: Reduce iron oxides to metallic iron (e.g., hydrogen or CO-based direct reduction, or carbothermal)
Hardware: One or two shaft/rotary furnaces, preheaters, gas recirculation, refractory linings
Mass: ~60–100 t
Power (electrical plus thermal equivalent): ~800–1,200 kW
5. Alloying, melting, and refining
Function: Electric arc or induction furnace to melt iron, add Cr/Ni/Mn, refine to stainless
Mass: ~30–50 t
Power: ~400–700 kW (high peak, lower average due to batch operation)
6. Casting, rolling, and forming
Function: Casting of ingots/billets, rolling mill for beams/plates, cutting and shaping
Mass: ~40–70 t
Power: ~300–500 kW
7. Process gases and consumables (ISRU)
Function: Produce H₂, CO, and O₂ from Martian resources (water electrolysis, Sabatier/RWGS, gas handling)
Mass: ~50–80 t
Power: ~400–600 kW
8. Power generation and storage
Two broad options:
Option A – Nuclear
Type: Modular fission reactors totaling ~3–4 MWe
Mass (reactors, radiators, shielding, power conditioning): ~150–250 t
Option B – Solar plus storage
Array size: ~25–35 MWp (to cover night, dust storms, and storage losses for a ~2–3 MW average load)
Mass (panels, structure, batteries/flywheels): ~300–500 t
9. Thermal management and radiators
Function: Reject waste heat from furnaces, power systems, and electronics
Mass: ~30–50 t
10. Control systems, robotics, spares, and infrastructure
Function: Control rooms, electronics, cabling, structural frames, assembly tools, inspection/maintenance robots, spare parts
Mass: ~50–80 t
Totals and cargo delivery from Earth
Process, mining, ISRU, and forming equipment:
Mining and hauling: 40–60 t
Crushing and grinding: 15–25 t
Beneficiation: 25–40 t
Reduction furnaces: 60–100 t
Alloying/melting: 30–50 t
Casting and forming: 40–70 t
ISRU gases plant: 50–80 t
Thermal management: 30–50 t
Control, robotics, spares, infrastructure: 50–80 t
Subtotal (process + support): roughly 340–555 t
Power system:
Nuclear option: ~150–250 t
Solar + storage option: ~300–500 t
So:
Total hardware mass (process + power + support): about 500–800 t (nuclear-heavy) up to 650–1,050 t (solar-heavy)
With packaging, structure, and margin (+20–30%): roughly 650–1,400 t delivered from Earth
If a single cargo vehicle can land ~100 t on Mars, you’re looking at on the order of:
About 7–14 dedicated cargo flights to deliver a full stainless-steel production complex capable of producing ~2.3 million kg of stainless steel over ~5 years.
Objective
Produce 2,300,000 kg of stainless steel on Mars from regolith, using equipment delivered from Earth, and estimate equipment mass and power needs.
High-level production chain
[]1. Regolith mining & hauling – dig and move ore-bearing regolith
[]2. Crushing & grinding – reduce to fine particles
[]3. Beneficiation – concentrate iron-bearing fraction
[]4. Chemical reduction – convert oxides to metallic iron
[]5. Alloying & melting – add Cr/Ni, refine to stainless
[]6. Casting & forming – ingots, beams, plates, structural members
7. Power, gases & thermal control – keep everything running continuously
Throughput assumptions
[]Target steel mass: 2,300,000 kg
[]Campaign duration: ~5 years of operation
[]Steel per year: ~460,000 kg/year (~460 t/year)
[]Steel per day (operational): ~1,300 kg/day (assuming ~350 days/year uptime)
Regolith and ore requirements
Assume:
[]Effective Fe-bearing fraction in processed regolith: ~15%
[]Overall recovery to usable iron: ~50–60%
[]Net iron yield from regolith: ~8–9% by mass
[]Stainless steel composition: mostly Fe, with Cr/Ni/Mn partly imported from Earth (or from richer local ores later)
Approximate regolith mass needed per kg of stainless steel:
[]Regolith per kg steel: ~7–8 kg/kg steel (iron from regolith + imported alloying elements)
[]Total regolith for 2,300,000 kg steel: ~16,000,000–18,000,000 kg (16,000–18,000 t)
[]Regolith per year: ~3,200–3,600 t/year
[]Regolith per day: ~9–11 t/day
This is a modest daily tonnage by terrestrial mining standards, but on Mars it still demands robust, autonomous equipment.
Energy and power budget (order-of-magnitude)
Primary steelmaking on Earth typically consumes on the order of 20–35 MJ/kg of steel (mining + beneficiation + reduction + melting). Mars will be less efficient at first, so assume:
Specific energy for Mars stainless steel: ~25–40 MJ/kg steel (including overheads)
For 2,300,000 kg of steel:
[]Total energy: ~58,000,000–92,000,000 MJ
[]In joules: ~5.8×1013–9.2×1013 J
Spread over 5 years of operation:
[]Seconds in 5 years (approx): ~1.6×10^8 s
[]Average continuous power: ~360–580 kW (ideal)
With inefficiencies, downtime, and margins: design for ~2–3 MW continuous electrical + substantial thermal handling
Equipment breakdown: mass and power (delivered from Earth)
All masses are dry hardware masses, not including packaging; add ~20–30% for shipping overhead when planning cargo.
[]1. Regolith mining & hauling system
[]Function: Excavate ~10 t/day of ore-bearing regolith, transport to plant
[]Elements: 3–4 autonomous electric loaders, small dozers, haulers, maintenance shelter
[]Mass (hardware): ~40–60 t
Power (peak while operating): ~150–250 kW
[]2. Crushing & grinding
[]Function: Jaw crusher + ball/rod mill to reduce regolith to fine powder
[]Mass: ~15–25 t
[]Power: ~200–300 kW
[]3. Beneficiation & separation
[]Function: Magnetic separation, density separation, dust handling, feed hoppers
[]Mass: ~25–40 t
[]Power: ~300–400 kW
[]4. Chemical reduction furnaces
[]Function: Reduce iron oxides to metallic iron (e.g. hydrogen or CO-based direct reduction, or carbothermal)
[]Hardware: One or two shaft/rotary furnaces, preheaters, gas recirculation, refractory linings
[]Mass: ~60–100 t
Power (electrical + thermal equivalent): ~800–1,200 kW
[]5. Alloying, melting & refining
[]Function: Electric arc or induction furnace to melt iron, add Cr/Ni/Mn, refine to stainless
[]Mass: ~30–50 t
[]Power: ~400–700 kW (high peak, lower average with batching)
[]6. Casting, rolling & forming
[]Function: Continuous or batch casting, rolling mill for beams/plates, cutting and shaping
[]Mass: ~40–70 t
[]Power: ~300–500 kW
[]7. Process gases & consumables production
[]Function: ISRU plant for H2, CO, O2 (electrolysis, Sabatier/Reverse Water Gas Shift), water handling
[]Mass: ~50–80 t
[]Power: ~400–600 kW
[]8. Power generation & storage
[]Option A – Nuclear:
[]Type: Modular fission reactors totaling ~3–4 MWe
[]Mass (reactors + radiators + shielding): ~150–250 t
[]Option B – Solar + storage (harder on Mars):
[]Array size: ~25–35 MWp (to cover night, dust, and storage losses)
Mass (panels, structure, batteries/flywheels): ~300–500 t
[]9. Thermal management & radiators
[]Function: Reject waste heat from furnaces, power systems, electronics
Mass: ~30–50 t
[]10. Control, robotics, spares & infrastructure
[]Function: Control rooms, electronics, cabling, structural frames, assembly tools, spare parts, inspection robots
Mass: ~50–80 t
Total equipment mass (hardware only)
[]Process + mining + ISRU + forming: ~310–475 t
[]Power system (nuclear or solar): ~150–500 t (depending on architecture)
[]Thermal + control + spares: ~80–130 t
[]Subtotal hardware: ~540–1,100 t
With packaging, launch adapters, margins (+20–30%): ~650–1,400 t to be delivered from Earth
You can tune this range depending on how aggressive you are with:
[]Automation level: more robots vs. more human labor
[]Power choice: nuclear (lower mass, higher complexity) vs. solar (higher mass, simpler tech)
Throughput: longer campaign (lower power) vs. shorter campaign (higher power)
Cargo delivery concept (Earth → Mars)
Assuming a heavy cargo architecture (e.g. multiple large cargo landers or Starship-class vehicles):
[]Total delivered mass for steelmaking complex: ~650–1,400 t
[]Per-cargo-ship mass (if ~100 t landed per flight): ~7–14 cargo flights
[]Staging:
[]Wave 1: Power, basic ISRU, initial mining & crushing (~200–300 t)
[]Wave 2: Full beneficiation, reduction furnaces, first melting/casting line (~250–400 t)
[]Wave 3: Expanded rolling/forming, additional power, redundancy, spares (~200–400 t)
Direct answer to your question
For producing ~2,300,000 kg of stainless steel from Mars regolith:
[]Equipment types needed:
[]Mining & hauling robots
[]Crushing & grinding plant
[]Beneficiation/separation line
[]Reduction furnaces
[]Alloying/melting furnaces
[]Casting & rolling/forming line
[]ISRU plant for H2/CO/O2
[]Power generation & storage
[]Thermal management & radiators
Control, robotics, spares, structural frames
[]Mass per type (typical ranges):
[]Mining & hauling: ~40–60 t
[]Crushing & grinding: ~15–25 t
[]Beneficiation: ~25–40 t
[]Reduction furnaces: ~60–100 t
[]Alloying/melting: ~30–50 t
[]Casting & forming: ~40–70 t
[]ISRU gases plant: ~50–80 t
[]Power system: ~150–500 t
[]Thermal management: ~30–50 t
Control & spares: ~50–80 t
[]Power needs:
[]Average continuous process power: ~2–3 MWe (including mining, ISRU, furnaces, forming)
[]Peak process power (melts, startup): up to ~4–5 MWe
[]Total installed generation (with margin): ~3–6 MWe equivalent
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Found a document for the topic
An Introduction to Mars ISPP Technologies
Data inputted told of location on mars and source of the stainless from the starships 304L being re-fired in smelting and formed to the tubing dimensions. The equations presented give no temperature shift component to the strength.
If the tanks are inside the 9m shell and they are said to be 8.8 m inside then the walls either have a 10 cm spacer rib or the stainless is thicker than 4mm