You are not logged in.
My first thought when I looked at the image was that neither the chute or the retro's had provided sufficient braking and that the dark patch was a small crater. But thinking about it the retro's make a lot more sense as it looks like the lander is in one piece.
I'm surprised the 'chute has not blown away by now though.
Graeme
My natural inclinations wouldn't be to vote for the British Labour Party anyhow.
I must say it was one of the worst elections for ages, none of the parties fought any real issues that the public could get heated up about. Instead it was a round of "your a liar"... "no I'm not"... "yes you are"...
There was a turn out of only 61% which is poor to say the least - next the people who did not vote will be complaining about the government again.
Graeme
Now hold on here... getting to Mars is going to be a risk, no doubt about it, but shouldn't we at least see what we get in return for our risk?
If the mission suceeds, we get another few years of HST operation, maybe and we no longer have those $200M worth of parts to build Hubble Origins with nor the $1.3-1.5Bn it cost for the mission to build it with... Versus the new reliable telescope which will do much more and last twice as long or more.
I have no problem with taking risks... but taking foolish risks for no good reason I am not okay with.
And, I think there is a risk that if Shuttle were lost for the same reason as Columbia, that there would be a terrible political price that NASA would pay... NASA has now lost two Shuttles and over a dozen souls because of its bad judgement about Shuttle, if they were to strike a third time, it could be very bad.
Just imagine for a moment... if word got out that the astronauts were stranded and doomed since rescue could not possibly come in time. Can you imagine the round-the-clock coverage that would get for the brave astronauts final hours as their fuel cells ran out? ...And then after its over, the real pain would begin. "NASA killed a THIRD crew by putting them in a vehicle they KNEW had a flimsy heat shield... and for what? They could have just built a NEW telescope, and then they would be alive today." Etcetera etcetera. NASA might not even survive the controversy as a manned spaceflight entity. As least with the ISS, it is something unique that only Shuttle can do, and the risk is cut in half with the availability of a safe haven.
You missed the point either on purpose or not I don't know. Going to the ISS is a risk, but I'm yet to be convinced it has any value other than being a drain on NASA's funds (but I won't gripe about the ISS )
You painted a scenario of astonauts stranded in space receiving round the clock news coverage - this would not change regardless of its destination, there would still be questions a-plenty by the gen. public whether the goal was a temp. fix of HST or a new sock order for the ISS - this is purely because the average Jo on the street does not know the difference between a ISS run and a HST repair. If NASA did send a crew out in a sub-standard unsafe vehicle regardless of its destination they should be shot, a safe haven at the end does not make it a worthwhile risk if they know in advance of as you say a flimsy heat shield, risk is inevitable yes, but knowingly sending a crew out with a sub-standard vehicle is not a reasonable risk.
from Houston Chronicle
NASA Administrator Michael Griffin has asked agency experts to take a fresh look at an astronaut mission to extend the life of the Hubble Space Telescope.
Griffin has directed NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., to begin planning for a mission that could launch by mid-2007 and extend the life of the observatory by five years. He was careful not to promise the mission is a go.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mp … 79]Article link
A launch by mid-2007 if delayed may not be soon enough as its expected to expire late-2007.
I did not like the articles following quote...
Columbia was downed by damage caused when foam insulation from the fuel tank fell off and struck the left wing at launch. Discovery's mission is being delayed to give shuttle engineers more time to reduce such hazards.
Discovery's crew would take refuge on the space station if damage occurred again, an option not available to astronauts headed for Hubble.
It makes it sound as if every mission into space should head for a safe haven - we'll never get to Mars with that attitude!
Graeme
"Sanitising" a movie and then selling it is actually illegal, whatever other objections one raises. The owners of the copyright have every right to prosecute these individuals.
I agree, it's a violation of copyright to amend someone elses work without their permission and sell it on. As a photographer and artist I would be straight into court with anyone who took one of my images then done a amend & sell on it - same difference in my book. The same goes for literature, you could not take say 'A Brief History of Time' take out any bits you did not agree with and sell it on.
As to sanitising movies, do they still have the same feel about them after being cut I wonder - as long as its a real part of the story I don't have a problem with a few choice words lets say.
Graeme
http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/20 … ter/]Click
*The Discovery Channel has pretty much gone this route as well, and before A & E. Last night I clicked over to Discovery, only to see a motorcycle builder straddling a huge alligator and wondering if he'd get bitten.
Was that one before or after the pheasant shoot, it will of course have included lots of shouting - which seems to be the norm these days for many Discovery Channel programmes.
I recently saw (briefly -- and hopefully not to be repeated) a popular astronomy/space exploration web site devoting a portion of its web space to singles ads. Lonely hearts and the latest news regarding Seyfert galaxies? Aren't there enough forums online for lonely people already?
Then there's the issue of certain astronomy/space exploration web sites (whether related to news or merchandising, or both) pandering to the UFO crowd. :-\ I dunno, I think we should keep fact separate from fantasy, but whatev.
I have to agree, one of the reasons I use moderated science type groups over unmoderated groups is due to the amount of pure dribble that can be generated by some people. One astronomy group I used to visit had so many threads started by the same person all along the same theme of 'man has not gone to the moon because...'
Now some of the once more serious websites have so much advertisements and popups that you have to spend a while sifting through the dribble.
We've got the greatest amount of science knowledge ever, in the history of mankind, rolling in -daily-...and most people aren't interested and/or don't care. Including some folks apparently who used to be a little more interactive here.
I often visit the BBC's http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/spac … night/]Sky at Night website as it advertisement free. And its a rare event if I remember to set the video for the programme so I watch it online HERE]http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/spaceguide/skyatnight/proginfo.shtml]HERE"
The truth is much of TV is dumbed down these days, you've just got to rise above it 'cos there is little we can do about it (the herds want a nice easy programme to watch, thinking is something done by others).
Graeme
All of the above, of course, is featured in detail at http://www.enterprisemission.com/]The Enterprise Mission Website, in case you're interested.
I could not look at the site too long as for some reason when they desgined it the idea of using small white type on a black star covered background must have been a really cool idea. However it just gives me a bad head.
Naturally, I don't necessarily place any faith in this stuff at all but that Richard Hoagland never fails to give us interesting food for thought, don't you think? :;):
I'm pleased you don't put any faith in the theories on RH's website, I'd start to worry if you did.
From the images you supplied, the large pic of the moon shows obvious signs of irregular cratering, when would you have a manufactured moon with irregular cratering on it? But then the website also has a large picture of the supposed 'face on Mars'!
Graeme
Can they not be 'The Beagles'
Never to be heard from again.
Now thats a LOW blow!
Graeme
Excellent images, thanks for the links. The second one 'N00028184.jpg' looks like my car window on a frosty morning :;):
a bit of info on Crater Herschel
It is the deathstar then is it?
This link is showing as missing from the website, the first one looked good though.
Graeme
Can they not be 'The Beagles'
Graeme
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 … tml]Bright lights, eerie "heartbeat" at Saturn
*Incident dated January 2004 when Cassini-Huygens was still en-route to Saturn. However, the study includes past and current participation by Cassini.
An audio file of Saturn's auroral sounds is available through a link.
Includes a brief run-down of characteristics in Saturnian aurorae -- on Saturn, they can endure for days. Also, check out the middle characteristic...variable, wow.
--Cindy
P.S.: Check out illustration regarding Saturn's magnetosphere and magnetotail.
I wonder if you could observe one in the visible spectrum rather than UV; a series of images perhaps through a half decent telescope on Earth. Be interesting if another display flares up whilst Cassini is active.
Graeme
It was good while it lasted, I can not believe how lucky we were with its path (M45 is my favourite night sky object outside of planetary observing ) So, in 12 months time I'd like two comets please, both naked eye, with Mars in the same frame of a photo.
Graeme
The ISS wouldn't have to serve as a shelter for all that long, just long enough to send up a rescue Shuttle.
How long would it take them to prepare a shuttle for a rescue, if the crew had taken shelter in the ISS? And would they take the food/supplies with them or have extra store on the ISS in advance?
Graeme
*Hi Graeme: Please consider adding http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1292]this thread (Celestial Cartography) to the next Ares Express issue. There's an article concerning ancient astronomy history (Hipparchus) which I posted in that thread on this date -- it especially is of interest, IMO. [Also the thread throughout contains good information regarding the mythology behind the constellations, history, links to old star chart imagery, etc., etc.]
Also, please consider http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic … ingularity as well. It'd be great to draw in more comments, contributors, etc.
Thanks for the consideration.
--Cindy
Thanks for those Cindy :up:
I'll be doing the next issue during the week (once my head is back where it belongs ??? )
Any other suggestions anyone?
Graeme
Here is a story that supports my theory.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/a … 50127.html
Based on data collected by Huygens' instruments, Sushil Atreya, a professor of planetary science at the University of Michigan in the United States, believes a hydro-geological process between water and rocks deep inside the moon could be producing the methane.
"Based on data collected by Huygens' instruments" Surely if you have lost all respect for the ESA errorist you won't want to use any of the data their probe provides. So try and support your theory without using data from Huygens.
Graeme
Ok, these are not new discoveries, but show a good deal of determination to complete
http://epod.usra.edu/archive/images/ana … g]Analemma Image
image caption
Wojtek Rychlik, Pikes Peak Photo -
Earth Science Picture of the Day for January 22, 2005
The analemma above was made from my home in Cascade, Colorado (near Colorado Springs). Because we had approximately 300 mostly sunny days here in 2004, it was possible to portray the Sun's motion during the course of a year -- each image was taken at 14:28:00 (local time). 365 photos were used between December 4, 2003 and December 4, 2004. The image of the Sun for December 5, 2003 nearly perfectly overlaps the image for December 4, 2004. When a day was cloudy, an extrapolation was made.
Graeme
I'm not sure I'd wish to travel on the A380, when it comes down to it I don't think I'd wish to go where that many people are going
In regards to supersonic flight, part of the fun is the journey (as long as its comfortable I'm getting older) if you shorten the journey too much it'll take all the fun out of travel - as long as there is room of course (I'm over 6' and not a small frame :;): ) I don't mind the extra time in the air.
Graeme
Its worth mentioning here that David Lunt died this week.
from Sky & Telescope article
January 18, 2005 | David Lunt, founder and principal optical designer of Coronado Technology Group in Tucson, Arizona, died on January 16th after a 22-month battle with cancer. He was 62 years old.
Coronado burst on the scene in the late 1990s with a new line of affordable, convenient hydrogen-alpha solar filters. These narrowband filters enable users of small telescopes to observe the Sun's chromosphere...................
Full article is http://skyandtelescope.com/news/article_1444_1.asp]here
Graeme
-YLR - Thanks for the link to the flash animation, at the end it says that in December 2015 Rosetta's journey will come to an end. However as it'll still be attached to the comet it's journey will be ongoing - we'll just miss it all! Amazing how many fly-bys its going to have though.
Graeme
*Graeme: It was just an analogy. Okay? I didn't intend to imply that nobody here knew that or that I was being "informative" somehow.
I know, I was just being the weak comic relief (must have been too weak though )
Graeme
Oh come on Graeme, now you are mocking me by mincing words.
As if I'd mock you :;):
You know very well what I mean, to maximize all three aspects of the investment, not to count dollars alone.
Yet at the end of the day it does come down to dollars, its the way of the world.
This notion that NASA always builds thing with planned obsolesance involved is stupid nonsense, and an denegration of the hard work that NASA engineers put into overcoming the incredible challenges of space flight that you take for granted. NASA is quite capable of building things to last, and you know it.
That is not really what I said, nor as you well know what I meant. I take nothing for granted when it comes to space as you would know if you'd read some of my posts to NM recently not just this one thread. I know NASA, they are capable of building things to last Spirit & Opportunity spring to mind at this point. But there is also the perception that the space industries (not just NASA) and technology companies in general would rather replace than repair.
-Hubble's life cannot be extended signifigantly by any SM.
-Replacing Hubble is cheaper then fixing Hubble, which would offer superior performance and longer life for similar or lower costs.
-Optical space telescopes in general will becoming decreasingly important as adaptive optics progress.
No, no, and erm no again.
I will admit that in time ground based scopes will exceed Hubble in visible and IR thanks to AO, but its not going to be for a while yet. (The fun will start when AO scopes become a reality for amateurs )
Graeme
http://www.spaceweather.com/aurora/imag … n1.jpg]WOW!!!!
Pic by Bjorn Jorgensen, Ersfjord, Tromsoe, Norway - Jan. 18
http://www.spaceweather.com/aurora/imag … f]Animated Pic
Roman Krochuk, Fairbanks, AK, USA - Jan. 17
Graeme
One thing thats worth pointing out is the work that has gone on since the data came back to Earth. The number of gripe threads I've seen about the pictures on various sites around the net (and New Mars) when you watch the press conference and see the experiments they've been conducting since the data came in - it's only a week after all - is really quite astounding. Just think about it, you've spent years and years developing and building a probe, you see it successfully complete its mission - I'd still be drunk from partying, but no, they try and recreate the effects they've seen so far in their lab to match up what they know with what data they have - some people have dedication to a cause thats all I can say, and hats off to them for doing it.
Graeme
image from esa website
A single Huygens DISR image that shows two new features on the surface of Titan. A bright linear feature suggests an area where water ice may have been extruded onto the surface. Also visible are short, stubby dark channels that may have been formed by 'springs' of liquid methane rather than methane 'rain'.
Credits: ESA/NASA/JPL/University of Arizona
Graeme