New Mars Forums

This is a segment that recently aired on "Science Friday".
The link includes the Official trailer for the documentary "Good Night Oppy".

New Documentary Is Endearing Tribute To NASA’s Rover Program
9 minutes 28 seconds

GW Johnson #69
I see you are from McGregor, TX. I have an uncle that lives in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. After HS he was in the Air Force and worked on the B-36 "Peacemaker". That's where he met my aunt who is from Fort Worth. Her father worked for General Dynamics back in the day. I have cousins that grew up in Dallas. I've made the trip down I-35 to Dallas-Fort Worth many times.

After I graduated from Kansas State I moved to Indianapolis Indiana and worked for the Navy as a manufacturing engineer. I primarily worked on the ARIES EP-3 (surveillance aircraft). In 2001 the aircraft was involved in the "Hainan incident". I had left the Navy by then. I now work for an Aerospace company in the Kansas City Metro area.
Good to meet you.

Void comment #41

Yes, do consider it. It does take a lot of effort. I have more links about self publishing if you or anyone else reading this is interested. Just message me about it on this forum. (It does pay to have friends!)

Calliban comment #42

I was thinking an underground facility would need to be sealed, but maybe that's not be the case. If the facility is deep enough, it would be hard for air to push through all that rock and make it to the surface. It might even be self sealing. If the surrounding material contained ice, I would think the ice near the walls/ceilings would melt and air pressure would push moisture deeper into the rock and then freeze, causing a seal. I'm not sure how that would work.

If a liner were needed, I would think it would need to be flexible, so if there are any shifts in the surrounding material, the liner could flex and bend with it.

I agree we need to keep labor cost (amount of time) to a minimum. I've wondered what the cost of labor would be on Mars. If we assume a crew of 6 were sent to Mars for a 4 Earth-year stay then returned to Earth, what would be the cost per hour of labor?

If we assumed the crew averaged a 50 hour work week, and multiply that by the number of Earth-weeks spent on Mars, multiplied by a crew of 6, we would know the total number of labor hours. Divide the cost of the round trip by the number of labor hours and we'd have a cost per hour.

I've not done the math, but I'd take a wild guess it'd be on the order of 1 million (US) dollars an hour. Increasing the stay to 6 Earth-years should decrease the cost per hour, but then more supplies would need to be sent. It would be interesting to see the math on that.

I agree any salt mined would be of use on Mars. Actually there are several things that could be mined on Mars that would be of value. Mining anything of value would leave a void behind that could be used for a habitat later. Such is the case with the salt mine in Kansas.

There's another place in Kansas City that used to be a limestone mine. It has been repurposed as "the worlds largest underground storage facility". There's an article in Wikipedia called "SubTropolis" about it. Do an Internet image search on "SubTropolis caves" and you'll see what I mean. They have semi's driving through there. I'll do some digging and post information about it later. A local PBS TV program did a story about it a few years ago. I bought the DVD of the story. I might be able to post some images from the DVD.

Kbd512 comment #44

Thanks for the information. I've done some data programming myself when I was right out of college. I used "Dbase III" and "Dbase IV", and later "Clipper" which was a compiler. We'll talk more about that later when I have time. Sounds interesting.

I need to run. I got in late tonight and I need to get up early in the morning. I work a lot of hours. So if I don't respond for a few days it's because I've gotten busy. I'm not ignoring anyone.

Wikipedia article SubTropolis

Kbd512,
Thanks for sharing your ideas. I'm curious, what do you do for a living? What is your area of expertise?

Hutchinson Kansas is not only home to the salt mine Strataca, it's also home to the space museum "Cosmosphere". The Cosmosphere has Gus Grissom's capsule the "Liberty Bell 7" on display. The Liberty Bell 7 sank in July 1961 and was recovered from the Atlantic Ocean in 1999. The Cosmosphere also has this replica of the Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity.
If anyone is passing through Hutchinson Kansas my advice is to visit both the salt mine and the Cosmosphere. Both could be done in one day but I'd recommend an overnight visit.

Links for more information:

Strataca: The underground salt museum

Cosmosphere Space Museum

The Sinking of Liberty Bell 7: Gus Grissom’s Near-Fatal Mission

Things to do in Hutchinson Kansas

Both Strataca and the Cosmosphere Space Museum have Facebook pages.

This is a "chain saw" that was used in the mine, it's called an "under-cutter". It was used to under-cut the very bottom of a wall before the wall was drilled and blasted. It makes me wonder if a similar mine could be made on Mars. Using the room and pillar method, 50 foot wide tunnels could be made on Mars with overlapping bores from a small diameter tunnel boring machine. Perhaps a chain saw like this one could be used to flatten out the floor and ceiling.

The mine is still in operation today. Blasting is still done even though a small portion of the mine is opened to the public and artifacts are stored in the mine.

Because of the constant temperature and humidity of the mine, many Hollywood artifacts are stored here. The original copy of the movie "Wizard of OZ" is stored here, as is Dorthy's dress used in the film. Medical records are stored here too. Our tour guide told us that if you have ever seen a doctor in the State of Kansas, more than likely your name is in this mine.

The floor is coated with a special type on concrete made from salt, called "Salt-crete". Salt is used as the aggregate, in place of sand and gravel. This greatly reduced the amount of weight that had to be transferred into the mine to create a concrete floor.

I find it interesting that the salt-crete does not have any cracking, even though there aren't any control joints. I couldn't even find miniature cracks when I inspected it closer. Apparently the constant temperature and humidity of the mine prevents the salt-crete from cracking. I didn't think to ask if any rebar or mesh was used. Abandoned tracks that once hauled salt can be seen here.

Thanks everyone for your links and comments. The pictures and videos remind me of the salt mine in Hutchinson Kansas (called "Strataca"). Strataca is a salt mine that is still in operation today, as well as a museum that is open to the public. I last visited Strataca about a year before the pandemic. I'd like to share some of my personnel pictures I took while visiting the salt mine. Its address is 3650 E Ave G, Hutchinson, KS 67501. The above ground entrance can be seen on Google street view.

The above ground building has a lobby with a map of the salt mine. It shows dates of when sections were mined. Tunnels in the mine are 50 feet wide (15.2 meters) and 10 feet tall (3 meters). They run North-South and East-West. "Pillars" are 40 feet square (12.2 meters square) and are seen as small squares on this map. Salt is being mined using the room and pillar method. The mine is located 650 feet (about 200 meters) below the surface.

tahanson43206,
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'm just doing some brainstorming and thought I'd throw some idea's your way. Feel free to use and discard whatever fits your need. It's your thread. Don't worry, I won't be offended.

As far as my time. I work a lot of hours. I take it that some of the members are retired(?) and checkin everyday. I usually check in on weekends when I can, but I often work weekends. I have many ideas and proposals that I'd like to run by the group in due time. If I seem to disappear, don't worry. It just means I've gotten busy. I'll be back.

Thank you for the link EdwardHeisler. It has a lot of good information.

Thanks for your links Mars_B4_Moon. On the question of "Can life survive deep in Mars?", the TV show 60 Minutes did a news story about searching for extreme life deep in a South African gold mine. (Air date was Feb 9, 2020, with correspondent Bill Whitaker) They weren't sure if any form of life could exit in such extreme conditions (No light, high temperatures, two miles beneath the Earth's surface). In 2011 they not only found a single cell bacteria, but they also found higher forms of life, including a species of a worm that had never been discovered. They found so many forms of life deep in the mine they called it a zoo. Belgian biologists Gaetan Borgonie said "If there is life here in the deep, then you should definitely take on Mars, because if life was ever there you will find some life form, I believe very strongly, still on Mars" (Quote is at 10 min 20 sec in the video) The video of this story can be seen at the following link:

60 Minutes
Season 52 Episode 19
What lies at the bottom of one of the deepest holes ever dug by man?