Making Paper On Mars

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-13 11:09:07

This topic is inspired by a post of Steve Stewart, in a topic about Coal on Mars.

I am hoping that Steve will re-create his post here, and lead a team of NewMars members to fill in the details of how a viable business can exist on Mars, for manufacture and distribution of paper products of all kinds.

This topic is intended to supplement the My Hacienda topic, which is itself intended to provide a framework for a fully operational, self-supporting city on Mars.

The original concept of Sagan City was offered by long term (and prolific contributor) Louis.

This topic is not intended for opinion.

The goal of this topic is to collect information valuable to a future Mars business person.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-13 11:25:45

To try to provide direction for this new topic...

I am very specifically looking for new technology, or adaptation of existing technology, for making fibers suitable for paper or cloth.

Insects (notably the caterpillar of the silk moth) make thread from materials available on Earth.

Artificial (nanoscale machines) "insects" should be able to do the same, without the CO2 phase used by plants on Earth.

Per Google:

Silk - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Silk
Silk is a natural protein fiber, some forms of which can be woven into textiles. The protein fiber of silk is composed mainly of fibroin and is produced by ...
History of silk · Silk (disambiguation) · Spider silk · Silk industry in China
Baxter (1992): *sjɨ
Silk–Its Mysteries, How It Is Made, and How It Is Used - PMC - NCBI
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC4936833
Aug 24, 2015 · Silks are generally recognized for their unique combination of mechanical properties, including remarkable strength and toughness (Figure 3A).

(th)

kbd512 · 2022-11-13 11:50:51

tahanson43206,

Silk paper is already a commercial product.

Cotton-silk paper is already a commercial product.

Cotton paper is already a commercial product.

Hemp paper is already a commercial product.

Bamboo paper is already a commercial product.

Parchment / vellum paper (animal hide paper) is already a commercial product.

Any of those methods work so well you can buy paper made that way, everything from toilet paper to typing paper to construction paper. Some are more expensive and time-consuming or energy-intensive to make than others, especially parchment / vellum. I think cardboard is still mostly wood-derived due to the expense and thus low-volume of the other methods.

Coal-derived paper is apparently doable, after 10 years of Chinese research effort to find something to do with the fly ash from their coal-fired power plants, but you have to burn the coal first to obtain the fly ash and the "whiteness" of the paper is not as good as other forms of paper, so it's more like off-white construction paper or high quality recycled cardboard that's been bleached (think food packaging used by take-out restaurants).

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-13 14:02:30

For kbd512 re Post #1 ...

Thank you for your helpful support of this new topic!

The goal behind this investigation is to (try at least) to find a product that can be made from raw (just mined) coal, in order to (try to) find gainful employment for a great number of hard working, productive people who will otherwise be unemployed due to elimination of coal as a source of energy.

Coal is solidified vegetable matter, accompanied by atoms of various kinds that are more or less useful when extracted.

I am on the hook for a bold claim that people living in coal mining regions could find gainful employment from the resource they have on hand, if sufficient energy is brought to bear on the problem.

There would appear (to me at least) to be no substitute for atomic energy in coal mining regions of the world.

My hope is that someone in the forum will bail me out before I get called on my bold claim.

The components of coal can be extracted through a combination of mechanical and chemical processes.

The making of paper from carbon extracted from coal is the title of this topic, but any useful material built upon carbon could be an output of a facility dedicated to making useful products from coal.

What I am trying to deal with is the incessant drumbeat of pessimism that pervades so much of the thoughtscape environment in the world today.

The NewMars forum, like the Mars Society itself, is (or should be) "in the business" of bringing about a positive future for everyone.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-11-13 18:13:12

It is all about the fibers and color removal.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/en … anic-fibre

https://www.eolss.net/Sample-Chapters/C … -02-01.pdf

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-13 19:12:25

for SpaceNut re #5

Thanks for the links you provided in this post ....

Here is another link to add to the mix:

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/na … tic-fibers

DESIGN & STYLE
Natural vs. Synthetic Fibers: What’s the Difference?
Written by MasterClass
Last updated: Aug 26, 2021 • 4 min read
All fabrics can be characterized as either natural or synthetic fibers (or a blend of the two). Both types have pros and cons; natural fibers come from plants and animals, while synthetic fibers are made from chemical compounds, and each is valued in the textile industry for different reasons.

The article at the link above continues for several pages, but is not over long.

It compares natural and synthetic fibers in some depth.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-13 19:15:22

Since this topic is about making paper, here is a Google search about making paper from synthetic fiber ...

About 208,000,000 results (0.52 seconds)
Synthetic fibers have shown outstanding resistance to corrosive chemicals, molds, bacteria, sunlight, heat, and moisture. They also have high strength, ilex endurance, and abrasion resistance. Papers made from nylon, Dacron, and Orion are three to 10 times stronger than pulp or rag papers.Nov 5, 2010
Paper from Synthetic Fibers | C&EN Global Enterprise
https://pubs.acs.org › doi
About featured snippets
•
Feedback
People also ask
Is paper a synthetic fibre?
Can we make synthetic paper?
Is fiber used to make paper?
What fibers make paper?
Feedback
Synthetic fibers for reinforced speciality paper production. PP ...
https://www.swicofil.com › consult › non-wovens › paper
Paper, whether produced in the modern factory or by the most careful, delicate hand methods, is made up of connected fibers. The fibers can come from a number ...
Synthetic fibers for reinforced speciality paper. PP + PE fibershttp://old.swicofil.com › paper
Paper, whether produced in the modern factory or by the most careful, delicate hand methods, is made up of connected fibers. The fibers can come from a number ...
papermaking - Natural fibres other than wood | Britannica
https://www.britannica.com › technology › Natural-fibr...
Because synthetic fibre papers can be made resistant to strong acids, they are useful for chemical filtration. Paper can even be made from glass fibre, ...
Why can't we make paper from some sort of synthetic cellulose ...https://www.quora.com › Why-cant-we-make-paper-from...
Yes, a cellulose filter paper can be powdered through mechanical (e.g., milling) and/or chemical means. First step is characterization of the paper to identify ...
2 answers
·
3 votes:
Synthetic paper is already a real thing. It is water resistant and good for applications where ...
US2477000A - Synthetic fiber paper - Google Patentshttps://www.google.com › patents
It has now been found that paper of the foregoing characteristics can be manufactured from synthetic fibers, in which the synthetic fibers may be used in ...
Blending effect of synthetic fiber on paper properties
https://www.researchgate.net › publication › 266492154_...
Jul 5, 2022 — Synthetic polyester fibers may be used to replace the long fiber component in the furnish. Addition of short cut polyester staple fibers in ...

(tn)

Steve Stewart · 2022-11-13 20:37:48

tahanson43206,
Thanks for your kind words.
Below is repost per your request on comment #1.

On the topic of making paper on Mars, I think we need to include ways of limiting the need for paper.
For example,
Bidets could be used to eliminate the need for toilet paper.

Clearing Up the Top 10 Misconceptions about Bidets

Electronic tablets could be used to make Mars as paperless as possible.
Maybe a "magnetic drawing board" could be used.
Maybe the old "Magic slate paper" I had when I was a kid could be used to help conserve paper.

Example of "Magic Slate Paper":

On the subject of making paper on Mars:
In accent times, papyrus (paper plant) was used for making paper. There are several plants that can be grown on Mars to produce paper.
EPA.gov states:
Over the centuries, paper has been made from a wide variety of materials such as cotton, wheat straw, sugar cane waste, flax, bamboo, wood, linen rags, and hemp. Regardless of the source, you need fiber to make paper.
The Green Room: Alternative Fibers
The article above states:
Many of the most durable and energy efficient papers don’t begin with a tree in the first place. While trees can take decades to grow, most tree-free fibers grow seasonally. There are many alternative fiber papers available to those willing to step out of the box. Bamboo, cork, cotton, hemp, mulberry and even stone (yes, stone) are just some of the options available to you.

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-13 21:27:16

For Steve Stewart re #4

Thanks for adding your post to this growing (pun intended) topic!

One caution I would like to offer ... we have members (Louis chief among them) who are willing to impose restrictions on others.

I hope you are not one of those folks, but your (interesting to be sure) suggestion of running fresh warm water to cleanse the body after using the toilet raises the question (for me at least) of what folks who use that technique do to remove soapy (or rinse) water from body surfaces.

I've no objection to using fresh water to cleanse body parts. That is a fairly common practice in many parts of the world in 2022.

What I object to is the suggestion that folks who relocate to Mars need to put up with artificial limitations because humans on Earth in 2022 couldn't figure out how to supply ** all ** needs/desires for Mars residents.

Offering to do without materials we take for granted on Earth is ** NOT ** my idea of a great solution.

Instead, I recommend we (humans) who are thinking about the Mars venture consider ** every ** problem as solvable, and go about finding the solution.

I will attempt to provide an example of that kind of thinking, to the extent my (admittedly limited) capabilities allow.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-14 18:52:50

For Steve Stewart re #4

Please take this challenge as the opportunity it is intended to provide.

I am confident you are able to solve whatever problem is offered.

The question is whether you have the time (a) and if Newmars is the venue (b).

(th)

Steve Stewart · 2022-11-14 20:09:31

tahanson43206,
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'm just doing some brainstorming and thought I'd throw some idea's your way. Feel free to use and discard whatever fits your need. It's your thread. Don't worry, I won't be offended.

As far as my time. I work a lot of hours. I take it that some of the members are retired(?) and checkin everyday. I usually check in on weekends when I can, but I often work weekends. I have many ideas and proposals that I'd like to run by the group in due time. If I seem to disappear, don't worry. It just means I've gotten busy. I'll be back.

Calliban · 2022-11-14 22:36:23

Interesting thread. As Kbd512 has already outlined, paper is a complicated topic because different grades require different fibre lengths, diameter, tensile strength, texture, colour, etc. Paper is often recycled, but because fibres become progressively shorter with recycling, its function will change upon recycling. From a productivity viewpoint, land plants like switchgrass, miscanthus giganticus, willow and poplar, provide high yields of cellulose and lignin per acre. But these materials may not be suitable for producing high quality paper in all grades.

On Mars, processed raw materials will be expensive. Anything that must grow using light will be expensive. We must either grow it in a heated, pressurised greenhouse, or grow it under LED lights. There is a strong incentive to maximise efficiency. This will encourage intelligent use and the planning of the life cycle of products to allow recycling. Wood may be used first as a structural element, before being recycled into paper. A cotton shirt will be worn until it becomes irreperable, before being recycled into paper. Paper will be recycled until it loses cohesion. It will then become a biomass feedstock for fuel or polymer production. There will be no landfills on Mars. The waste from one process will be the input to another. It is through the integration of material life cycles, that products like paper will be affordable, even though growing its feedstocks will be expensive compared to Earth.

SpaceNut · 2022-11-15 22:41:37

I actually remember after seeing the image above the magic slates.

Here is an old school toy that can depending on talent do some amazing things.

th?id=OP.QrsMFm81%2b9sMMw474C474&w=300&h=300&o=5&pid=21.1

kbd512 · 2022-11-16 10:35:32

How many different times and in how many different ways can you reinvent the wheel?

We have paper for this / that / the other. We have multiple separate and independent methods for making it. Some clearly work better than others. That's why we don't have a lot of hemp-based cardboard, for example.

Every aspect of human existence doesn't have to be completely changed or reinvented to live on Mars.

Sometimes you can pick a method that already works well and adapt or directly apply it.

Calliban · 2022-11-17 04:29:32

kbd512 wrote:

How many different times and in how many different ways can you reinvent the wheel?
We have paper for this / that / the other. We have multiple separate and independent methods for making it. Some clearly work better than others. That's why we don't have a lot of hemp-based cardboard, for example.
Every aspect of human existence doesn't have to be completely changed or reinvented to live on Mars.
Sometimes you can pick a method that already works well and adapt or directly apply it.

Agreed, we are unlikely to require anything new in terms of technology for producing paper. It is more a case of tailoring existing techniques to a challenging environment. It is difficult to understand exactly how Martian conditions will drive a nascent paper industry. One thing that is obvious already about future agriculture on Mars, is that systems will have high capital cost. We are talking about heated, pressurised and automated polytunnels. This imposes a strong incentive towards efficiency. Using paper efficiently will be important. Recycling paper will be important. Producing paper from byproducts rather than dedicated crops, will save a lot of cost.

RobertDyck · 2022-11-17 11:10:40

We had paper from hemp before we had paper from wood. Hemp paper does not require acid. Acid paper becomes yellow, brittle and fragile. Libraries need books made with acid free paper to ensure the books last. Strength comes from fibre length. Hemp can grow 18 feet tall, and fibres are the full length of the stalk. While wood is chipped in the pulp process, cutting wood fibres into length of chips about 4 inches. Hemp produces 3 times as much fibre as trees and grows in a single season, while trees take 20 years. The American Declaration of Independence was printed on hemp paper.

Industrial hemp is not marijuana. Industrial hemp has so little THC that you have as much chance of getting high from smoking lawn clippings. As a comparison, if you eat poppy seeds such as a poppy seed bagel, your urine will test positive for opium for 24 hours. A bagel will not get you high. Likewise industrial hemp will test positive for THC but has zero chance of getting you high.

Industrial hemp is used for fibre: paper, textiles (eg clothing), bags, rope, twine, etc. The first jeans made by Levi Strauss were hemp cloth. Hemp oil has medical uses, when added to soap makes it moisturize skin. Hemp seeds are a health food. Hemp was used for centuries, so has hundreds of uses.

RobertDyck · 2022-11-17 11:31:36

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but here on Earth recycled paper is used to make toilet paper. But paper will be too valuable on Mars for that. Fibre for paper must be grown in a pressurized greenhouse, with soil treated to remove perchlorates and nitrogen fertilizer added. Depending on crop, it may also require potassium fertilizer. I've argued for ambient light greenhouses, because power will be precious, and plants can recycle CO2 into oxygen just using sunlight. That requires glass windows. Polymer film can be used for initial science missions; PCTFE film can withstand cold and UV on Mars, but dust storms will score and kraze the film resulting in short life. Tempered glass will not scratch, score, or kraze from dust or sand storms. But a greenhouse made with tempered glass will cost quite a bit to build. A better alternative for toilet use is a not to use toilet paper at all.

Washlet is a brand name for a toilet that has a built-in bidet. You can buy a toilet, or just a toilet seat that fits onto a standard toilet. There are gadgets: controls to move the water stream, temperature controls for the water, and an option for a built-in warm air drier to dry your bottom.

There's now a hand-held unit available on Amazon for cheap:

tahanson43206 · 2022-11-17 13:18:49

For RobertDyck re Post #17

Thanks for an interesting post! Recently another member suggested bidet devices, and you've added significantly to that branch of ideas.

For the purposes of ** this ** topic, I'd like to focus on this quotation:

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but here on Earth recycled paper is used to make toilet paper.

I think this is helpful to know, and hope that someone in the forum might expand a bit on the technology of production of tissue paper on Earth.

We have a set of gents making assertions about how life might be lived on Mars, and I suspect that in the "real Universe" an offering of a bidet to a house guest would not be well received.

The direction I'd like to go with this topic, if we have the right mix of folks available, is to develop detailed specifications for how to make tissue paper of excellent quality out of CO2 and water on Mars.

We have a useful history of paper making on Earth, and it is certainly possible some of those methods may prove useful on Mars.

However, I started this topic because we have many thousands of workers in distress in coal mining regions of the world, and the US in particular. I am looking for technology to make very high quality tissue paper from coal as mined, and water, using abundant nuclear fission power.

Much of the discussion in the forum archive is driven by a mind set of scarcity.

That is going on today, and without a doubt, posts will appear in the near future which betray a scarcity-mindset.

This Universe (and particularly the Sun and Earth) provide energy beyond our capability of consuming it, but we humans are currently obsessed with our failure to grow beyond chemical power.

If someone of the mindset of Elon Musk were to tackle this problem, I expect it would be solved quickly.

As it is, we (humans) struggle along with only limited options before us, because those are the only ones we can imagine.

(th)

Calliban · 2022-11-17 14:15:11

Hemp fibre could provide a reinforcing ropes for polytunnels. This would avoid the need for steel reinforcement hoops.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ma … hemp-fiber

One alternative to toilet paper would be cotton or hemp fibre flannels that are dropped into bins and washed for re-use.

RobertDyck · 2022-11-17 14:41:33

tahanson43206 wrote:

We have a set of gents making assertions about how life might be lived on Mars, and I suspect that in the "real Universe" an offering of a bidet to a house guest would not be well received.

We have to stop being obsessed with America. People of other countries do things differently right now, and Mars will be different again. We have to accept certain realities. Many Americans who have visited Tokyo report that toilets equipped with a bidet in their hotel rooms are far more advanced. Once you get used to it, it's hard to go back to the primitive toilets here in North America. Yes, I've received push-back from a number of Americans on this forum, but again, Mars will be different, get over it.

Mars has no forests, no trees. All crops must be grown in constructed pressurized greenhouses. So using toilet paper is extremely wasteful. Using warm water and warm air is far more efficient. Elon Musk has said the best part is no part. With a bidet it means you do not need to fish toilet paper out of the waste stream, you do not need to separately decompose toilet paper. Yes, city sewage treatment plants do that. When I was in elementary school, one day they held a field trip to the sewage treatment plant. Sewage treatment started with a flotation pool that looked like an Olympic size swimming pool, but there were rakes across the width every 10 feet or so. Toilet paper floated, and got caught in the rakes. The toilet paper was composted separately. None of that is required if toilets on Mars don't use toilet paper to start with. And of course manufacturing for toilet paper is not necessary.

I would like to point out that toilets in Islamic countries are quite different again. Known as the squat toilet, you don't sit down, just squat over it.
hhqu7rtghw311.jpg?auto=webp&s=8deebd96fb3fcc3458a3568a50f3aa0f6c46a4d6 kbidb9hvjx311.jpg?auto=webp&s=af38d94072df111342426046271d59820194894c

RobertDyck · 2022-11-17 14:48:44

Wikipedia: Toilet paper - history

Joseph Gayetty is widely credited with being the inventor of modern commercially available toilet paper in the United States. Gayetty's paper, first introduced in 1857, was available as late as the 1920s. Gayetty's Medicated Paper was sold in packages of flat sheets, watermarked with the inventor's name. Original advertisements for the product used the tagline "The greatest necessity of the age! Gayetty's medicated paper for the water-closet."
Seth Wheeler of Albany, New York, obtained the earliest United States patents for toilet paper and dispensers, the types of which eventually were in common use in that country, in 1883. Toilet paper dispensed from rolls was popularized when the Scott Paper Company began marketing it in 1890.
Rolls of toilet paper, produced by Nokia in the 1960s, at the Vapriikki Museum Centre in Tampere, Finland
The manufacturing of this product had a long period of refinement, considering that as late as the 1930s, a selling point of the Northern Tissue company was that their toilet paper was "splinter free". The widespread adoption of the flush toilet increased the use of toilet paper, as heavier paper was more prone to clogging the trap that prevents sewer gases from escaping through the toilet.
Softer, two ply toilet roll was introduced in Britain in 1942, by St Andrew Mills in Walthamstow; this became the famous Andrex.
Moist toilet paper, called wet wipes, was first introduced in the United Kingdom by Andrex in the 1990s. It has been promoted as being a better method of cleaning than dry toilet paper after defecation, and may be useful for women during menstruation. It was promoted as a flushable product but it has been implicated in the creation of fatbergs; by 2016 some municipalities had begun education campaigns advising people not to flush used wet wipes.
More than seven billion rolls of toilet paper are sold yearly in the United States. Americans use an average of 23.6 rolls per capita per year.

People had to relieve themselves long before 1857. The United States alone was founded long before that. So toilet paper is not a necessity of life, you just got used to it. It's time for something more modern, at least on Mars.

kbd512 · 2022-11-17 15:20:01

No other countries are making any significant dollar figure contributions to an eventual Mars mission. NASA and SpaceX are footing most of the bill- almost all of it. America is carrying everyone else's water, but you want us to act as if we're from some other country. I'm sure some of you don't think that's silly at all, but as an American, I sure do.

Spraying my rear end with someone else's fecal matter is not appealing in the slightest. Spraying my hands with my own fecal matter is not appealing, either. A shower and a bidet are not even close to being the same thing. For starters, showers involve soap.

If the bidet is a "butt shower", then how do you prevent the rest of your body from taking a shower in your butt water? When I take a shower, my butt and feet get washed last, for what I hope are obvious reasons. Afterwards, I then wash my hands a couple times. Why? Wiping fecal matter, even if mixed with soap, all over my body or on my face are non-starters. If others think my sanitary practices go overboard, then good for them, but none of them pay my medical bills, so their opinions mean very little to me.

Call me back when any other country builds and operates a super heavy lift launch vehicle for more than 1 or 2 flights and an interplanetary transport spacecraft for 100+ people. I can think of only one country that's done those things, and it rhymes with "Murica".

Since we both know no other country is going to do any of that, can we stop pretending that Americans "need to be more like everyone else"?

I can't think of any time when I told a Canadian to be more like Americans, or someone from Africa to be more like Germans, or someone from Asia to be more like someone from Brazil.

Can someone else's country please put their money where their mouth is and make a serious dollar figure contribution?

Bidets and butt wipes aside, when are we going to stop this, "When we go to Mars, we need to become more like space aliens who don't know what paper is or why it's used so much" silliness?

Terraformer · 2022-11-17 16:09:03

Under conditions of significantly lower gravity than the Terran norm, perhaps we would not wish to use flush toilets at all. Water can splash quite a bit under 1g; consider what it may be like at 0.37. This would also be a problem for a bidet, which would have to operate at significantly lower pressure to keep the water in the bidet. And dry waste is a lot easier to treat than diluting it into a bacterial broth and then trying to treat that.

The average USian uses about 13kg a year of toilet paper. That's, what, 10 square metres of growing area? 20? And it can be downcycled from other uses such as writing paper (still useful for notes and quick calculations). If they use cleansing wipes too that should be a far lower numbers as well. It's not that big a number, and if it saves us from fecal matter being blasted into the habitat's air by a bidet it's worth paying the cost.

Calliban · 2022-11-17 16:31:03

Terraformer wrote:

Under conditions of significantly lower gravity than the Terran norm, perhaps we would not wish to use flush toilets at all. Water can splash quite a bit under 1g; consider what it may be like at 0.37. This would also be a problem for a bidet, which would have to operate at significantly lower pressure to keep the water in the bidet. And dry waste is a lot easier to treat than diluting it into a bacterial broth and then trying to treat that.
The average USian uses about 13kg a year of toilet paper. That's, what, 10 square metres of growing area? 20? And it can be downcycled from other uses such as writing paper (still useful for notes and quick calculations). If they use cleansing wipes too that should be a far lower numbers as well. It's not that big a number, and if it saves us from fecal matter being blasted into the habitat's air by a bidet it's worth paying the cost.

Agreed Terraformer (and Kbd512). Loo paper is typically made from recycled paper anyway. It is intended to be cheap and uses fibres that wouldn't be much use for anything else. We can make it from just about any plant fibrous waste. It doesn't have to be pretty. It is disposable. If the toilet is solid compost, then the residues are effectively compost after a few months. Stuff that makes soil.

Countries: toilet paper use.
https://www.statista.com/chart/15676/cm … nsumption/

I hate bidets. As Kbd512 notes, they spread bacteria. They generate aerosols. I tried using them as a teenager, but I never thought they left me properly clean. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Never again. They are a smelly invention from smelly frog land.

On a joking note, I can remember an engineer that I worked with that had a real thing about 'recycled toilet paper'. "Why do they do that?" he asked. "It's a disgusting idea". He seriously thought they had a device that extracted it from the plumbing system!

Last edited by Calliban (2022-11-17 17:27:15)

RobertDyck · 2022-11-17 16:35:22

OMG! The toilet used on ISS does not work like a toilet on Earth. You have to learn how to use facilities that are designed for the environment you will live in. A bidet is more modern, more technologically advanced, and appropriate for a planet with no trees.

A grey water sewage treatment system starts with wet sewage, such as a flush toilet. A composting toilet uses dry feces, but you have to ensure to urinate separately, never urinate into the composting toilet. So I'm thinking of a flush toilet, which washes the toilet bowl with clean water with every flush. That's compatible with a bidet. The ship will still use a separate urine collection tube, because water recovery is critical, and several important nutrients can be recovered from urine: salt, potassium salt, baking soda. And remaining concentrated urine can be processed separately to become nitrogen fertilizer for hydroponics.

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