New Mars Forums

Smart-1 studying Hopmann crater

Smart-1 is studying the far side crater Hopmann but is also using calculated thrists to ensure its collision with the Moon in september.

The simple fact is that nothing we can do now will make much difference in the cost of a space program. It is all to do with economies of scale and how much things cost. The Russians make cheaper rockets but that comes down to they are using older designs repeatedly and those designs are actually guite simple from a rocket point of view and there wages and resources bill is substantially less.

Any commune or group will need resources to be able to develop and sustain a space program. They will need to be able to develop and test there spacecraft and to ensure it is safe and programmed well. These people will be the brightest and best that a society has and they will want to be paid for it. The materials used on the rockets will be some of the most expensive used and it all adds up.

As these items add up and the majority have will have to come from outwith the organisation or group you have made and to pay for that requires cash. As GCN guite rightly states there will be no great cost reduction until there is a need and we develop something that reduces the single biggest cost that of the launching from Earth in the first place. We do on new mars go over and over the ways that this could be done but no one here has the money or to make the political will to actually be able to get a cheaper overall launch method developed.

ESA has the columbus module ready for delivery to the ISS

spacedaily: Columbus module ready for delivery

Youre speaking from a western point of view the averadge citizen of a middle east country really honestly believes that Israel is a foreign invader occupying an Islamic state. Most middle eastern countries have very strict laws surmounting to a ban on any trade or political dealings with Israel. Trying to change this has been viciously opposed by the people of these states. This includes our allies there Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. The only Islamic state in the area that has free trade with Israel is Turkey and that is only down to the fact Turkey hates and is hated by all the other Arab states. Iran is a pariah state in the middle east but it always has been. Iran is not like the majority of its neighbours Sunni or even Arab.

Iran could make a very good manufacturing state it has unlike the majority of the rest of the gulf states an educated populace and also a low wage potential. What it lacks is the infrastructure needed to build a large maunfacturing base. And it also has a market in those other gulf states.

But this is your western views coming out again the fact is that the people of Iran honestly believe it is right for candidates to be vetted before they go ahead and of course it is right for the Mullahs to do it who else has the authority. Trying to change there views is going to be hard and the work of generations we have already seen in the case or Iraq where the spiritual side of the country has a very big say in how the country operates. All Middle east countries operate this way apart from Israel but that is one of the problems that Islam has with her.

The same 70% who are raised on the stories of the 1st gulf war and are exposed to the Islamic jihadist talk in the mosques they go to pray in. The ones who are told the stories of when Iran was the greatest empire in the world and see that for there country to progress they need to advance and that means electricity. In this case with the conditions that are present in Iran the only means they see that might work is nuclear power. They have oil but it will run out and they want something for there future. There is a lot of support for nuclear power in Iran they want all the advantages that a regular source of electricity can give them. They have a lot of problems and they know that there reliance on oil for everything cannot last. The high unemployment rate in Iran is something that they want to change and with regular power they can start manufacturing goods with the low costs of labour and parts they could be the China of the middle east. So there goverment tells them and they listen.

The people see there chance. What does that mean why should they rise up against there religion. You must remember that 95% of the population are islamic and as a population are very highly supportive of that. How do you intend to weaken the mullahs. You must also remember is that the current goverment was democratically elected.

I suspect that like the majority of commercial and haulage flights. Insurance companies will demand that Federal Aviation certificates exist and that a set amount of standards be present. And just for liability these aerospace companies will even if not operating on US soil or even a US company will get the certificates just to keep the insurers happy.

China's Moon Quest Has US Lawmakers Seeking New Space Race

Why, Do they honestly expect China to be able to suddenly send enough to the Moon to be able to claim the whole thing. In 12 years what do they expect China to suddenly do.

Errr no.

A space program is a nations plans and aims to do research, manned missions and to utilise space for it and the worlds benefit. China landing on the Moon with people something they have yet to even announce. (They have stated they will orbit her with a manned mission and to land Rovers and do sample returns again by robots). China does not have the capability at this time to suddenly send people to the Moon and to build a base. NASA is working on doing that exact thing and if anything has at least a ten year edge on anyone else.

Still if this increases NASA's space programs budget im all for it especially as it should I hope get the VSE working faster.

China is still a communist country but with an increasing free economy. When the other Asian tigers grew to industrial dominance ie Japan, South Korea they had growth rates that where actually greater than what China and India has now. If China is to grow it has a lot of infrastructure and building to do. A large expensive space programme will take a lot of resources from trained engineers to high tech parts and of course money away from places China needs them.

Dont expect China to suddenly wrack up a large number of flights and to suddenly start springing on the world stage its version of the Saturn V. It does not need to do so sending probes and unmanned rovers to the Moon is plenty enough pressure to keep the USA off balance. Dont get me wrong China can go the way of a major push to the Moon but it just does not need to nor can it really afford to.

China is looking for the future where NASA requests that they share flights to the Moon and for NASA which does not want to spend billions in a fight to return to the Moon this is becoming an increasingly likely option.

They sure do want to pack those tourists in. I wonder if I could talk the wife into letting me go. I dont know maybe an advance on the next hundred years wages....

Europe does have plans to explore the Moon and to use this knowledge to increase there prescence in space.

BBC Europe's Lunar Vision Blooms

Europes plan is to use the information gained from the probe SMART-1 and the so called peaks of "eternal light" to deploy a series of robotic lunar landers and rovers. There intention is also to explore the permanently dark craters at the lunar poles for water. One other interesting point is to plant flowers on the Moon to increase public awareness and support for the space programme.

Probably from the fact that the Satelite has lost its orbit and the correct spin it had. They know how much fuel was on board they know which systems are working and where failures occur and they can tell what goes wrong. An Impact would be easily discovered by following the damage and the direction it came from. The delta V change tells how much mass the object struck at. Since they know what effects a component or series of component failures have then it allows them to deduce what caused the damage.

An External source for the damage would give the damage track like a triangle from point of impact as the initial impact carries on but blasting apart components causing shrapnel to spray out causing secondary damage and so on. Internal explosions give circular type damage tracks from the initial point.

Spacedaily. Fly Me To A Red Moon

As Mr Jones states China's statements over its space programme are vague that can lead to various interpretations and one of these is that they go for the Moon. But without a Heavy lift they will need to do a series of launches to then build in space the craft that would go to the Moon. Mr Jones considers that this is extremely unlikely before at the least 2017. Another option and easier for them to do is to instead launch into a circumLunar orbit or straight into the Moons orbit.

Certainly using Shenzhou 8,9 and 10 they can practice this ability if it gives them a spacestation then they will simply announce they have a completed research station and needless to say draw a paralel between the ISS disaster and themselves. Less complicated but functional. This may even spur Nasa and the USA on.