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Seer

Member

Registered: 2006-04-18

Posts: 13

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Blue Origin is developing a suborbital vehicle (New Shepard) that is meant to be operational by 2009, according to a media report. As far as I know it is an X prize class vehicle only.

My question is, why?

Why repeat what Burt Rutan did 5 years earlier? Jeff has said that he wants to go into space and explore the solar system, as well as achieving an "enduring human presence in space", just as Elon Musk does.

If that is the case, why doesn't he invest a similar proportion of his money as Elon has into building an orbital vehicle? After all, Blue Origin is 6 years old, and it doesn't have much to show for itself.

One possiblity is that he is using suborbital as a smokescreen, and is in fact developing an orbital vehicle. This would be analogous to SpaceX working on the Dragon capsule in secret. However, it is much more difficult to work on a large rocket in secret, than on a tiny capsule.

Another possiblity is that the technologies that are being used to build this suborbital craft, which is VTVL, will be recycled in a future orbital vehicle.
Again, this possibility doesn't seem very likely, as there isn't much commonality between orbital and suborbital.

It must be that Jeff has learnt from Kistler and the other failed alt.space attempts, to be ultra cautious in spending money on risky projects, but if Jeff isn't willing to spend serious amounts of money, who else is?

Anyway, those are my thoughts on Blue Origin, I'd like to hear yours.

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Or maybe Bezos just started the company because he was bored, and just runs it as his personal billionaire aerospace playground.

Edit: What ever happend to "4Frontiers"? They kinda fell off the map I guess, bad news for a company built on hype and press release.

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[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

Grypd

Member

From: Scotland, Europe

Registered: 2004-06-07

Posts: 1,879

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

It does seem there are two types of aerospace companies.

1) Four Frontiers lots of noise and promises but just ends up like smoke and they fade away with a sour taste.

2) The aerospace companies that you know are up to it but dont actually tell you what they are doing until its almost time to launch there product.

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Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Then what do you call SpaceX? They were all about parading their Falcon rocket around, even parking it in front of the Air & Space museum for the Wright Brothers celebration... And they of all the AltSpace companies have a chance to suceed.

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[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,017

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Highlights from their web site.
http://www.blueorigin.com/

Our initial research efforts are focused on reusable liquid propulsion systems, low cost operations, life support, abort systems and human factors. We are currently working to develop a crewed, suborbital launch system that emphasizes safety and low cost of operations.

Our hiring bar is unabashedly extreme, and we insist on keeping our team size small (measured in the dozens). This means the person occupying each and every spot must be among the most technically gifted in his or her field.

Interns will study and participate in real engineering design projects related to the development and construction of a manned launch vehicle. They will work directly with program staff, contributing to project goals in fields of mechanical design, aerodynamics, rocket propulsion, flight controls, electronics, flight software, human safety and systems engineering.

Students focusing on careers in engineering, science and technology are invited to apply for this 10-week summer program that will start in early June 2006 and end in August 2006.

Blue Origin document once posted on the company web site, the group's initial rocket design would comprise a propulsion module and a crew capsule. Hydrogen peroxide and kerosene are to be used as propellants.

It has been more than just a while since the press releases but it would appear that the free labor to build the prototype would start this summer if all the engineering drawings are done....

publiusr

Banned

From: Alabama

Registered: 2005-02-24

Posts: 682

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

That is the same propellant load that the Beal Booster was to use.

Seer

Member

Registered: 2006-04-18

Posts: 13

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Looks like others are thinking the same thing

http://www.economist.com/science/displa … id=6911220

Like the other craft under development, New Shepard is, according to its backers, intended for suborbital flights. However, if this is really all that Mr Bezos is interested in, a VTOL vehicle is about the most difficult way of going about it.

One way of explaining this curious design choice would be if Mr Bezos ultimately intended to produce an orbital vehicle.

VTOL should be VTVL.

It's a good article, people should read it.

Possibly more coverage than NewSpace deserves, for such a fledgling industry.

How many people really believe that XCOR will actually build Xerus?

publiusr

Banned

From: Alabama

Registered: 2005-02-24

Posts: 682

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Not me.

And what kind of lame name is "New Shepard" anyway? They need to give their money to SpaceDev or Interorbital or some other pressure-fed backer.

Seer

Member

Registered: 2006-04-18

Posts: 13

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

As in Alan Shepard.

publiusr

Banned

From: Alabama

Registered: 2005-02-24

Posts: 682

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

He flew suborbital (higher than SS1) but I think we should be past suborbital jaunts.

Let Bezos do something worthy, and use Falcon 1 cores as Redstones for a Saturn IB revival--or let him invest in Falcon V/IX.

I want a REAL rocket. If he wants Alan Shepard--put a Mercury atop a Falcon and be done with it.

If Bezos is just going to putter around like a duffer he needs to get out of the business.

cIclops

Member

Registered: 2005-06-16

Posts: 3,230

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Flight International uncover details about the proposed vehicle and test programme. Mystery solved?

Expected to be used for space tourism, the New Shephard reusable launch vehicle is a 15m (49ft) tall conical vertical take-off and landing rocket with a three-person crew capsule on top of a propulsion module, which is 7m wide at its base.

<snip>

“Main propulsion develops about 230,000lbs (1,000kN) at lift off using 90% concentration hydrogen peroxide and kerosene as propellants,” says the report.

It also explains that the crew capsule has a solid rocket launch abort system to separate it from the propulsion module.

The flight profile will see the vehicle fire its engine for 2min reaching 125,000ft (38,000m) altitude. Then its momentum would see it coast to at least 100km (54nm) before returning to Earth.

The report states that Bezos claims that the crew capsule and propulsion module may separate at this point or may return as a single vehicle.

Without the separation the whole system lands under power as the main engines reignite for about 15s just before landing.

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[color=darkred]Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget ![/color] [url=irc://freenode#space]  #space channel !! [/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/c1cl0ps]   - videos !!![/url]

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Best of luck... he's going to need it. Did someone mention to Jeff that 90% peroxide isn't the safest stuff available?

The notion that such a rocket will ever be used for orbital flight is crazy too.

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[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

publiusr

Banned

From: Alabama

Registered: 2005-02-24

Posts: 682

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

All it takes is the wrong piece of dirt...and its Kursk city johnson with that HTP

cIclops

Member

Registered: 2005-06-16

Posts: 3,230

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Goddard vehicle being moved from its hanger

Bezos has done it, it actually flies! Check the videos here

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[color=darkred]Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget ![/color] [url=irc://freenode#space]  #space channel !! [/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/c1cl0ps]   - videos !!![/url]

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,017

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Shape looks all to firmilar 

Interesting item from the page:

Blue Origin is actively hiring. We are particularly looking for experienced propulsion engineers and experienced turbomachinery engineers, as well as a senior leader to head our turbopump group. Folks with turbopump or propulsion experience on large, modern, cryogenic engines such as the RS-68 are of particular interest

C M Edwards

Member

From: Lake Charles LA USA

Registered: 2002-04-29

Posts: 1,012

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

OK, that's cool.   8)  Almost as good as Delta-X, without the crash.

I especially like the views where water droplets from the launch pad are getting sprayed all over the camera, then blown away.  At least, I assume they're from the pad - what propellant are they using?

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"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Catylized peroxide I thought, like Armadillo

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[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,017

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

It is designed to blast into the air using a mix of 90% hydrogen peroxide and 10% kerosene from articles.

publiusr

Banned

From: Alabama

Registered: 2005-02-24

Posts: 682

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

it's great size is an asset. Small toy landers a very hard to throttle, and will land hard and break their legs.

Small craft can get out from under you quickly, and weight distribution is such that if one weld on one side is heavier than another--look out.

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,492

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

Lawyers and attorney expertise. Bezos vs Musk. https://advanced-television.com/2021/04 … -commence/

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,492

Re: The Mystery of Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin

How Amazon Consumed All of Commerce
https://gizmodo.com/every-company-that- … 1849142527
Over the past twenty plus years, Amazon's gone from bookstore to everything store. Here's all the companies it swallowed to make that happen.

Blue Origin Launches 6 Passengers On Supersonic Flight To The Edge Of Space
https://www.newson6.com/story/62ed0ad20 … e-of-space