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#1 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus » Yesterday 19:58:22
The industrial production of cast basalt blocks is a multi-stage process involving melting raw basalt at very high temperatures and annealing it to create a durable, abrasion-resistant product. The total, comprehensive production cycle is often shortened in modern methods to roughly 5 to 6 days (approx. 130 hours), according to manufacturing patents.
Here is the breakdown of the time required for each phase:
Mining/Quarrying (Raw Material Gathering): Variable, depending on the scale of the operation, but typically, this is done in bulk.
Melting (Smelting): Basalt is melted at temperatures between 1280°C and 1500°C. Some studies indicate that the melting process itself, in a batch furnace, lasts about 4.5 hours.
Molding (Casting): The molten basalt is poured into molds or cast into cylinders. This is done shortly after melting.
Annealing (Heat Treatment/Crystallization): This is the most crucial, time-intensive step. The molded basalt is placed in a kiln for annealing to eliminate internal stresses and form a microcrystalline structure. This process usually takes 16 to 21 hours, though some specialized processes might take longer depending on the thickness of the material.
Cooling to Room Temperature: After annealing, the tiles are cooled, which can take an additional 9 to 14 hours.
Total Production Cycle Time:
Older, traditional methods could take significantly longer.
Modern, optimized manufacturing processes aim for a, total production cycle (from raw material to finished cast) in a significantly shorter timeframe, with some patents mentioning a, total cycle of 130+ hours (approx. 5.4 days).
Other Factors:
Preparation: Before melting, the basalt may need to be crushed into smaller particles.
Customization: Special molds and cooling processes for specific shapes or custom designs may increase the total turnaround time
Making things fast if we collect mars basalt sand.
Black Sand Dunes on Mars taken by NASA’s Curiosity Rover,
It appears that, Mars has abundant basalt sand, derived from volcanic activity, making up much of its dark dunes and regolith, with minerals like olivine, unlike Earth's quartz-dominant sands, creating unique features like "sandfall" streaks from sublimating dry ice.
Key Characteristics
Volcanic Origin: Mars's surface is dominated by basaltic rocks, the same dark volcanic rock common on Earth, so Martian sand is typically basaltic.
Dark Color: This basalt composition gives Martian sand its characteristic dark color, similar to dark volcanic sand beaches on Earth.
Primary Minerals: The sand contains igneous minerals like olivine and pyroxene, indicating formation through physical breakdown (wind, thermal stress) rather than extensive chemical weathering.
Dune Fields: Vast dune fields, such as the North Polar erg and the Bagnold Dunes, are composed of this basaltic sand.
Unique Martian Phenomena
Dark Sand Cascades: In the Martian spring, sunlight warms seasonal dry ice (frozen CO2) on dunes, causing it to sublimate (turn to gas) and trigger sand slides, leaving behind dark streaks that look like "trees" or "sandfalls".
Light Dust Cover: While the sand is dark, much of the Martian surface is covered by lighter-toned dust, which can obscure the dark sand unless it's actively moving or newly exposed.
Exploration
Curiosity Rover: The rover has extensively studied dark basaltic dunes in the Bagnold Dune Field, observing active sand movement and ripple formation.
BASALT Program: NASA's BASALT (Biologic Analog Science Associated with Lava Terrains) project studies Earth's volcanic areas to understand potential Martian environments for human exploration
Basalt sand is widespread on Mars, forming vast dark dunes, especially around the North Polar erg (Olympia Undae), where winds sculpt them into active patterns, and in regions like Meridiani Planum (seen by Opportunity) and near volcanoes like Syrtis Major, often appearing dark or blueish due to mineral composition, contrasting with the reddish dust and sometimes mixed with gypsum.
Key Locations & Features:
North Polar Region (Olympia Undae): A massive ring of basaltic (and some gypsum) sand dunes, some over 100 feet high, showing active movement and sublimation-driven "tree-like" streaks.
Meridiani Planum: Explored by the Opportunity rover, this area features basaltic sand grains, sometimes forming spherical aggregates, with distinct dark patches.
Syrtis Major: A large volcanic region where dark basaltic sand and rock are prominent, showcasing volcanic origins for the sand.
Impact Craters: Many craters expose underlying basalt layers, providing sources for sand that gets reworked by wind.
Characteristics:
Color: Dark, often appearing black or bluish in images due to volcanic minerals like olivine.
Formation: Created from volcanic eruptions and mechanical weathering, then shaped by wind (aeolian processes).
Activity: Dunes are very active, shifting significantly over time, influenced by seasonal frost and dry ice sublimation.
How it's Found:
Orbital imagery (like NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) and its HiRISE camera) reveals large dune fields.
Rovers (Curiosity, Opportunity) analyze surface sands up close, confirming their basaltic composition
#2 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » KBD512 Biosphere structure of cast basalt » Yesterday 19:58:00
The industrial production of cast basalt blocks is a multi-stage process involving melting raw basalt at very high temperatures and annealing it to create a durable, abrasion-resistant product. The total, comprehensive production cycle is often shortened in modern methods to roughly 5 to 6 days (approx. 130 hours), according to manufacturing patents.
Here is the breakdown of the time required for each phase:
Mining/Quarrying (Raw Material Gathering): Variable, depending on the scale of the operation, but typically, this is done in bulk.
Melting (Smelting): Basalt is melted at temperatures between 1280°C and 1500°C. Some studies indicate that the melting process itself, in a batch furnace, lasts about 4.5 hours.
Molding (Casting): The molten basalt is poured into molds or cast into cylinders. This is done shortly after melting.
Annealing (Heat Treatment/Crystallization): This is the most crucial, time-intensive step. The molded basalt is placed in a kiln for annealing to eliminate internal stresses and form a microcrystalline structure. This process usually takes 16 to 21 hours, though some specialized processes might take longer depending on the thickness of the material.
Cooling to Room Temperature: After annealing, the tiles are cooled, which can take an additional 9 to 14 hours.
Total Production Cycle Time:
Older, traditional methods could take significantly longer.
Modern, optimized manufacturing processes aim for a, total production cycle (from raw material to finished cast) in a significantly shorter timeframe, with some patents mentioning a, total cycle of 130+ hours (approx. 5.4 days).
Other Factors:
Preparation: Before melting, the basalt may need to be crushed into smaller particles.
Customization: Special molds and cooling processes for specific shapes or custom designs may increase the total turnaround time
Making things fast if we collect mars basalt sand.
Black Sand Dunes on Mars taken by NASA’s Curiosity Rover,
It appears that, Mars has abundant basalt sand, derived from volcanic activity, making up much of its dark dunes and regolith, with minerals like olivine, unlike Earth's quartz-dominant sands, creating unique features like "sandfall" streaks from sublimating dry ice.
Key Characteristics
Volcanic Origin: Mars's surface is dominated by basaltic rocks, the same dark volcanic rock common on Earth, so Martian sand is typically basaltic.
Dark Color: This basalt composition gives Martian sand its characteristic dark color, similar to dark volcanic sand beaches on Earth.
Primary Minerals: The sand contains igneous minerals like olivine and pyroxene, indicating formation through physical breakdown (wind, thermal stress) rather than extensive chemical weathering.
Dune Fields: Vast dune fields, such as the North Polar erg and the Bagnold Dunes, are composed of this basaltic sand.
Unique Martian Phenomena
Dark Sand Cascades: In the Martian spring, sunlight warms seasonal dry ice (frozen CO2) on dunes, causing it to sublimate (turn to gas) and trigger sand slides, leaving behind dark streaks that look like "trees" or "sandfalls".
Light Dust Cover: While the sand is dark, much of the Martian surface is covered by lighter-toned dust, which can obscure the dark sand unless it's actively moving or newly exposed.
Exploration
Curiosity Rover: The rover has extensively studied dark basaltic dunes in the Bagnold Dune Field, observing active sand movement and ripple formation.
BASALT Program: NASA's BASALT (Biologic Analog Science Associated with Lava Terrains) project studies Earth's volcanic areas to understand potential Martian environments for human exploration
Basalt sand is widespread on Mars, forming vast dark dunes, especially around the North Polar erg (Olympia Undae), where winds sculpt them into active patterns, and in regions like Meridiani Planum (seen by Opportunity) and near volcanoes like Syrtis Major, often appearing dark or blueish due to mineral composition, contrasting with the reddish dust and sometimes mixed with gypsum.
Key Locations & Features:
North Polar Region (Olympia Undae): A massive ring of basaltic (and some gypsum) sand dunes, some over 100 feet high, showing active movement and sublimation-driven "tree-like" streaks.
Meridiani Planum: Explored by the Opportunity rover, this area features basaltic sand grains, sometimes forming spherical aggregates, with distinct dark patches.
Syrtis Major: A large volcanic region where dark basaltic sand and rock are prominent, showcasing volcanic origins for the sand.
Impact Craters: Many craters expose underlying basalt layers, providing sources for sand that gets reworked by wind.
Characteristics:
Color: Dark, often appearing black or bluish in images due to volcanic minerals like olivine.
Formation: Created from volcanic eruptions and mechanical weathering, then shaped by wind (aeolian processes).
Activity: Dunes are very active, shifting significantly over time, influenced by seasonal frost and dry ice sublimation.
How it's Found:
Orbital imagery (like NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) and its HiRISE camera) reveals large dune fields.
Rovers (Curiosity, Opportunity) analyze surface sands up close, confirming their basaltic composition
#3 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 19:31:23
Electric drive heavy earth-moving equipment for Mars requires robust, cold-resistant components (motors, actuators, hydraulics with special fluids/seals) and power sources (batteries, potential nuclear), leveraging electric motors for efficiency in thin atmosphere, with concepts like track systems (Mars Crawler) for modularity, adapting proven Earth mining tech (Tesla motors, Bobcat designs) for extreme Martian conditions (low temp, near-vacuum), focusing on electric actuation over hydraulics where possible.
Key Design Considerations for Mars:
Power & Propulsion:
Electric Motors: Preferred due to the lack of oxygen for combustion engines.
Power Sources: Batteries (lithium-ion) and potentially radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs) for remote power.
Cold Operation: Motors need thermal management, potentially sealed systems, as air cooling is inefficient in Mars' thin atmosphere.
Mechanical Systems:
Hydraulics: Require specialized low-vapor-pressure fluids and durable polymer seals to prevent brittleness and evaporation in extreme cold and low pressure.
Actuators: Electric actuators (like piezoelectric) are being developed for precision and reliability in space.
Materials: Lighter, stronger materials like titanium alloys might replace steel for structural components, reducing mass.
Chassis & Mobility:
Tracked Systems: Offer stability and can distribute weight effectively on loose regolith (Mars Crawler concept).
Suspension: Similar to existing rovers (e.g., rock-bogie systems) for uneven terrain.
Modularity: Interchangeable tools (buckets, drills) on a base platform (Mars Crawler) for versatility.
Operational Environment:
Temperature Extremes: All components must function from cold to frigid temperatures.
Low Pressure: Affects fluid dynamics and heat transfer; systems need to be sealed or adapted.
Dust: Seals and mechanisms must resist pervasive Martian dust.
Inspiration from Earth & Space:
Mine Loaders: Models like large electric mine loaders provide power and robustness, adaptable for road grading and heavy lifting on Mars.
Electric Conversions: Companies converting Bobcat loaders to all-electric show potential for Mars applications.
Spacecraft Tech: Precision actuators from rovers like Perseverance demonstrate technology for reliable space operation.
Example Concepts:
Mars Crawler: A track-based platform with modular attachments (e.g., 3D printers, digging tools) run by powerful electric motors.
Electric Tractors: Powerful electric units similar to large mine loaders, capable of pulling heavy freight trains or grading roads
#4 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 19:31:18
adding more space
#5 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 19:31:13
Calculating the exact heating wattage for a dome on Mars requires detailed engineering specifications for the dome's construction materials and internal environment, but a rough estimate based on available data suggests the heating load would be tens to hundreds of megawatts (MW), primarily due to extreme heat loss.
The key factors that make heating a challenge on Mars are: Extreme temperature difference: The average temperature on Mars is around -63°C (-82°F), with nighttime temperatures plummeting to -73°C (-100°F) or lower. Maintaining a comfortable internal temperature (e.g., 20°C or 68°F) would require a temperature differential of over 80-90°C, leading to significant heat flow out of the dome.
Minimal atmospheric insulation: The Martian atmosphere is extremely thin, about 0.6% of Earth's atmospheric pressure, and composed mostly of carbon dioxide. This provides virtually no insulating "thermal blanket," allowing heat to dissipate rapidly into space.
High heat loss: The thin atmosphere combined with the low thermal conductivity of Martian soil (which acts as a good insulator for buried sections, but means heat loss to the air is a major concern for exposed surfaces) means that any exposed surface will lose heat very quickly through a combination of convection (minimal but present) and significant radiative transfer.
Estimated Heat Loss Calculation (Conceptual) Engineers on forums and in research have made preliminary calculations based on typical construction methods and Martian conditions: One such estimate for a 150m diameter, 75m tall dome (a similar scale to yours) with a 6cm thick glass shield (an R-value of ~0.06 m²K/W) suggests a heat flux of around 2,667 W/m² during a winter night.For your 200m diameter dome, the exposed surface area would be significant (the surface area of a 200m diameter hemisphere is \(\approx 62,800\,\text{m}^{2}\)).Multiplying the area by the heat flux gives a massive heat loss in the range of 100 MW or more.
This energy demand is enormous and highlights the need for: Exceptional insulation materials (far better than a single layer of glass).Potentially burying large portions of the habitat to use the regolith as insulation.Integration of life support systems, computing, and other activities as internal heat sources to recover as much thermal energy as possible.Robust, high-efficiency power sources on Mars to meet this demand
The wattage required to heat a Mars dome depends heavily on internal temperature requirements, the specific thermal properties of the regolith, and the Mars environment. Using standard engineering formulas and typical Mars regolith properties, the estimated heating wattage for a 200m diameter, 120m tall dome with a 10m regolith barrier is likely to be in the range of several hundred kilowatts (kW) to over a megawatt (MW) to counteract heat loss.
This calculation involves several key factors:
Heat Loss Formula: The basic principle for conductive heat loss is given by Fourier's law: \(Q=(\frac{k}{t})*A*(T_{inside}-T_{outside})\).\(Q\) is the rate of heat transfer (Watts).\(k\) is the thermal conductivity of the material.\(t\) is the thickness of the insulation.\(A\) is the surface area.\(T_{inside}\) and \(T_{outside}\) are the internal and external temperatures.
Key Parameters:Dome Surface Area: A dome of this size has a significant surface area exposed to the Martian environment.Thermal Conductivity (\(k\)): Martian regolith is a poor thermal conductor, with an average conductivity around 0.039 W m⁻¹ K⁻¹ in the shallow subsurface. This low conductivity is a major advantage for insulation.
Temperature Difference: Mars' surface temperatures vary widely, from around -153°C to 20°C (-225°F to 70°F). The required internal temperature for human habitation would likely be around 20°C (68°F). The external temperature would vary seasonally and daily, requiring the heating system to handle a large temperature differential, especially during Martian night and winter.
Other Factors: The presence of a CO₂ atmosphere (which increases conductivity slightly compared to a vacuum), internal air pressure, and potential ground ice or salt cementation can affect the effective thermal properties.
Estimated Wattage:
One conceptual design for a 250m diameter Mars habitat (Craterhab) lists a power input of 116 kW, though the exact shielding and internal conditions are not specified. The 10m thick regolith provides excellent insulation, but the sheer surface area of a 200m dome results in a substantial total heat loss that needs constant heating to counteract.A full engineering calculation with specific \(T_{inside}\) and minimum \(T_{outside}\) values is needed for a precise figure. The required wattage would represent a major power demand for the habitat
response after adding in waste heat from a 40 kilowatt reactor
The 40-kilowatt (kW) reactor produces a total thermal output (waste heat plus useful power) that can be harnessed. A 40 kWe (kilowatt-electric) reactor designed for Mars surface power would actually produce around 250 kW of thermal energy as waste heat, which is more than sufficient to heat the massive regolith barrier. The amount of wattage required for the regolith barrier depends entirely on the desired internal temperature of the habitat and the external Martian environmental conditions, but the available waste heat from the reactor is a substantial 250 kW.
Available Waste Heat A nuclear reactor generating 40 kWe (kilowatts of electricity) has a thermal efficiency of roughly 15-20%. Therefore, the total heat produced (\(Q_{total}\)) is significantly higher than the electrical output.
The waste heat (\(Q_{waste}\)) can be estimated as the difference between total thermal power and electrical power: Total Thermal Power: Approximately 250 kWth (kilowatts thermal).
Electrical Output: 40 kWe.Waste Heat Available: \(\approx \) 210 kW (250 kW - 40 kW). This 210 kW of heat can be passively transferred via heat pipes to the surrounding regolith. Heating Requirements & Thermal Properties The need for heating is to counteract heat loss to the extremely cold Martian environment.
Average Martian Temperature: The average surface temperature is around -63°C (210 K) but can plummet to -140°C at the poles.
Regolith Thermal Conductivity:
Martian regolith is a poor thermal conductor, with an average conductivity of approximately 0.039 W/(m·K). This low conductivity provides natural insulation. Given the immense size of the structure (200m diameter, 120m tall dome with a 10m thick barrier), the massive volume of regolith will have significant thermal mass and excellent insulating properties. The low thermal conductivity means that heat loss to the outside environment would be slow.
Conclusion
The 210 kW of available waste heat from the 40 kWe nuclear reactor is ample to warm the regolith radiation barrier and likely the habitat itself, potentially even requiring a dedicated heat rejection system (radiator panels) to prevent overheating if not all the waste heat is needed for the habitat's thermal management. The primary engineering challenge would be efficiently distributing the heat throughout the large volume of the regolith barrier as needed for thermal control
#6 Re: Human missions » Starship to mars count down 273 days to launch » Yesterday 19:26:18
Why Elon Musk now says it would be a 'distraction' for SpaceX to go to Mars this year
SpaceX is unlikely to attempt a Mars mission in 2026 after all, according to CEO Elon Musk, marking a setback in his plans to colonize the planet.
“It would be a low-probability shot and somewhat of a distraction,” Musk told entrepreneur Peter Diamandis in a podcast recorded in late December and published this week.
In September 2024, Musk discussed SpaceX’s plans to send an uncrewed Starship rocket to Mars this coming year. At the time, Musk said the mission would test how reliably SpaceX could land its vehicles on the planet’s surface. If things went well, he estimated SpaceX could send crewed missions as soon as 2028.But Musk has dialed back his optimism over the past year. In May, he gave his company a 50% chance of being ready for a launch in late 2026, which would coincide with a narrow window that occurs every two years when Mars and Earth align. A few months later, he said the uncrewed flight would “most likely” happen in 2029.
August 2025, Musk said there was a “slight chance” of a Starship flight to Mars in November or December 2026 crewed by Optimus, the humanoid robots being developed by Tesla “A lot needs to go right for that.”
A mission to Mars hinges on SpaceX being capable of refueling Starship’s upper stage in orbit, a complicated task that Musk told Diamandis could be achieved toward the end of 2026. Accomplishing orbital refueling is also crucial for SpaceX to complete a recently reopened contract to carry NASA astronauts to the moon.
SpaceX was on track to demonstrate its process — which involves launching tanker versions of Starship into orbit — in 2025, a NASA official said the year before. But the company missed that target and now plans to attempt its first orbital-refueling demonstration between Starship vehicles in June, according to internal documents viewed by Politico.
SpaceX, which is now developing the third generation of the reusable 404-foot Starship rocket, has also had difficulty testing its vehicle. Its first three flights of 2025 were failures, while the remaining two launch attempts were much more successful. The next iteration of Starship will be a “massive upgrade” over its predecessor, Musk has said.SpaceX was on track to demonstrate its process — which involves launching tanker versions of Starship into orbit — in 2025, a NASA official said the year before. But the company missed that target and now plans to attempt its first orbital-refueling demonstration between Starship vehicles in June, according to internal documents viewed by Politico.
SpaceX, which is now developing the third generation of the reusable 404-foot Starship rocket, has also had difficulty testing its vehicle. Its first three flights of 2025 were failures, while the remaining two launch attempts were much more successful. The next iteration of Starship will be a “massive upgrade” over its predecessor, Musk has said.
In addition to preparing for Mars and lunar missions, SpaceX dominates the commercial launch industry and runs a successful satellite-internet business. It plans to go public later this year in what could be a record-breaking listing that could help fund its plans for Starship as well as for space-based data centers.
Although SpaceX probably won’t be headed to the red planet in 2026, twin spacecraft will make the journey this year. Blue and Gold, a pair of satellites developed by Rocket Lab were launched into space last November by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos’s Blue Origin to fulfill NASA’s Escapade mission.
The spacecraft are expected to attempt a trans-Mars injection engine burn in November 2026 and arrive at the planet in September of next year, according to NASA. The satellites will be operated by the Space Sciences Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley, and will gather data that could help humans land on or even settle Mars.
This guy might be the first
#7 Human missions » Starship to mars count down 273 days to launch » Yesterday 19:24:59
- SpaceNut
- Replies: 1
What can we send to Mars on the first Starships?
By:
Casey Handmer's blog
As of today, it is 601 days until October 17, 2026, when the mass-optimal launch window to Mars opens next.
How many days are there between two dates?
So the actual count down is on 273 days remaining as of todays date 1-17-26
While I don’t have any privileged information, it’s fun to speculate about what SpaceX could choose to send on its first Starship flights to Mars. (Spoiler alert: Rods from the gods…)
Over the next 600 days, SpaceX has a number of key technologies to demonstrate; orbit, reuse, refill, and chill.
Orbit. This Friday we’re due for Flight 8, which may finally achieve orbit. Earlier flights technically had the necessary performance but deliberately targeted the ocean to prevent the possibility of a Starship being stranded in orbit without propulsion capability, and then undergoing an uncontrolled re-entry.
Reuse. The holy grail of rocketry. SpaceX has indicated they may attempt to refly Booster 14 on Flight 9, which would establish booster reuse. Flight 9 may also see the first attempt to catch the Starship upper stage, but in any case the successful reuse of both stages of Starship is necessary to fly to Mars.
Refill. We can load Starship up with cargo for Mars but it’s not going to leave low Earth orbit (LEO) unless Starship can be refilled with fresh fuel and oxidizer. SpaceX has been working on orbital refilling for some time but we need to see it actually working.
Chill. By far the easiest of the four tasks, but long term stability of Starship’s cryogenic fuel will require that it be actively refrigerated, particularly in the challenging thermal environment of LEO or deep space.
It’s hard to make predictions, particularly about the future. I’m optimistic that SpaceX will have multiple fully fueled Starships ready to go in October next year, to be followed by a ten month cruise and then either Mars orbital insertion or an attempted landing. While I’m optimistic about Earth departure I think Starship’s first ever attempted Mars landing falls into the “excitement guaranteed” bucket, and perhaps we shouldn’t pin all our hopes on success the first time.This poses an interesting question about what, if anything, we should ship to Mars at the first opportunity.
In my recent article for Palladium, I summarized eleven key technologies needed to build a Mars base. Some of those are essential from the very beginning, while others are only necessary later on. Some of them are areas where SpaceX already has world-leading expertise, and some of them are areas of active research requiring considerable additional engineering effort. Let’s think about this systematically.
As of 2025, I think industry expertise looks like this. The bolded items are key areas I think SpaceX will need to bring in house to assure success on their timelines, while the italic options may also be useful.
n particular, it seems clear to me that not much can be done at scale on Mars without a synthetic fuel plant – which is part of the reason I’m working on this technology at Terraform Industries. If you need to work on borderline impossible problems with brilliant people, you may like to consider joining us!
Synthetic fuel is easy enough on Earth, but on Mars it depends on several inputs which are non-trivial. Electricity, ambient CO2, and water to source hydrogen. CO2 ingestion is easy enough, it was demonstrated by the MOXIE instrument on the Mars Perseverance rover. Mars power will most likely be provided by large solar arrays on the surface. This is a challenge in terms of mass, since providing enough solar arrays will require multiple Starships of cargo, but Starship’s entire purpose is to schlep mass from Earth to Mars so I think this will be doable.
Water, on the other hand, is non-trivial. We know that Mars has plenty of water. We can even see water ice in satellite photos of prospective landing sites, in the form of glacial features or splosh craters. But there’s a big difference between turning on a tap and obtaining sufficient water from ice. How deep is the ice? How pure is it? Is it full of rocks, sand, gravel, and/or salt? Is it porous or solid? How cold and hard is it? How much do we need? How far from our landing site are sufficient water deposits? How deep might geothermally heated liquid water be?
Water, on the other hand, is non-trivial. We know that Mars has plenty of water. We can even see water ice in satellite photos of prospective landing sites, in the form of glacial features or splosh craters. But there’s a big difference between turning on a tap and obtaining sufficient water from ice. How deep is the ice? How pure is it? Is it full of rocks, sand, gravel, and/or salt? Is it porous or solid? How cold and hard is it? How much do we need? How far from our landing site are sufficient water deposits? How deep might geothermally heated liquid water be?
What could we ship on Starship with a 600 day lead time? JPL has developed some incredible ultraspectral scanning cameras with ~6000 color channels. Hook this to a 2.5 m aperture camera mounted within a Starship that aerobrakes into orbit and we can get precise surface mineralogy at 6 cm resolution. The limitation of this approach is that much of Mars is covered in a thin but optically opaque layer of dust with relatively uniform mineralogical constituents. Still, it’s time to move beyond HiRISE!
Orbital radar
MRO also flew SHARAD, a ground penetrating radar that has helped us map and understand Mars’ ice covering, particularly where it’s obscured by a layer of surface moraine. SHARAD has collected extraordinary data for an orbital radar with a power of just 10 W! What if we used Starship to transport a dozen or so Starlink satellites to Mars, each with a software update to use their powerful phased array antenna as an orbital radar? Because they form a constellation, they could even do multistatic synthetic aperture statistics. We need to build a relay constellation in Mars orbit sooner or later. As a complementary component, we could drop a wideband radio into the orbital Starship to put out far more than 10 W at much lower frequencies, seeing deeper into the crust. We have extremely powerful, versatile, programmable digital radio front-ends these days – and we should be using them to find stuff underground, including more scrolls!As of today, it is 601 days until October 17, 2026, when the mass-optimal launch window to Mars opens next.
While I don’t have any privileged information, it’s fun to speculate about what SpaceX could choose to send on its first Starship flights to Mars. (Spoiler alert: Rods from the gods…)
Over the next 600 days, SpaceX has a number of key technologies to demonstrate; orbit, reuse, refill, and chill.
Orbit. This Friday we’re due for Flight 8, which may finally achieve orbit. Earlier flights technically had the necessary performance but deliberately targeted the ocean to prevent the possibility of a Starship being stranded in orbit without propulsion capability, and then undergoing an uncontrolled re-entry.
Reuse. The holy grail of rocketry. SpaceX has indicated they may attempt to refly Booster 14 on Flight 9, which would establish booster reuse. Flight 9 may also see the first attempt to catch the Starship upper stage, but in any case the successful reuse of both stages of Starship is necessary to fly to Mars.
Refill. We can load Starship up with cargo for Mars but it’s not going to leave low Earth orbit (LEO) unless Starship can be refilled with fresh fuel and oxidizer. SpaceX has been working on orbital refilling for some time but we need to see it actually working.
Chill. By far the easiest of the four tasks, but long term stability of Starship’s cryogenic fuel will require that it be actively refrigerated, particularly in the challenging thermal environment of LEO or deep space.
It’s hard to make predictions, particularly about the future. I’m optimistic that SpaceX will have multiple fully fueled Starships ready to go in October next year, to be followed by a ten month cruise and then either Mars orbital insertion or an attempted landing. While I’m optimistic about Earth departure I think Starship’s first ever attempted Mars landing falls into the “excitement guaranteed” bucket, and perhaps we shouldn’t pin all our hopes on success the first time.This poses an interesting question about what, if anything, we should ship to Mars at the first opportunity.
In my recent article for Palladium, I summarized eleven key technologies needed to build a Mars base. Some of those are essential from the very beginning, while others are only necessary later on. Some of them are areas where SpaceX already has world-leading expertise, and some of them are areas of active research requiring considerable additional engineering effort. Let’s think about this systematically.
As of 2025, I think industry expertise looks like this. The bolded items are key areas I think SpaceX will need to bring in house to assure success on their timelines, while the italic options may also be useful.
Outlook 2025 SpaceX expertise SpaceX non expert
Easier technology Space Solar PV Mars air separation/miner
Water prospector
Pressure structures
Harder technology Starship
Orbital refilling
Cryofuel heat rejection
Mars EDL
Space suits Long duration life support
Surface life support
Water miner
Fuel plant
Rock miners
Construction robots
Nuclear reactor
In particular, it seems clear to me that not much can be done at scale on Mars without a synthetic fuel plant – which is part of the reason I’m working on this technology at Terraform Industries. If you need to work on borderline impossible problems with brilliant people, you may like to consider joining us!Synthetic fuel is easy enough on Earth, but on Mars it depends on several inputs which are non-trivial. Electricity, ambient CO2, and water to source hydrogen. CO2 ingestion is easy enough, it was demonstrated by the MOXIE instrument on the Mars Perseverance rover. Mars power will most likely be provided by large solar arrays on the surface. This is a challenge in terms of mass, since providing enough solar arrays will require multiple Starships of cargo, but Starship’s entire purpose is to schlep mass from Earth to Mars so I think this will be doable.
Water, on the other hand, is non-trivial. We know that Mars has plenty of water. We can even see water ice in satellite photos of prospective landing sites, in the form of glacial features or splosh craters. But there’s a big difference between turning on a tap and obtaining sufficient water from ice. How deep is the ice? How pure is it? Is it full of rocks, sand, gravel, and/or salt? Is it porous or solid? How cold and hard is it? How much do we need? How far from our landing site are sufficient water deposits? How deep might geothermally heated liquid water be?
We just don’t know the answers to these questions, and not for a lack of trying! We know there is water, but the error bars around its composition are large, and that makes engineering a water mining machine really difficult. It’s not impossible, but if we knew just a little bit more about the water situation, we could save a bunch of mass, power, reliability, and engineering effort.
This makes me think that, in addition to testing long duration cruise, systems stability and reliability, and Mars entry, descent and landing, it would be very useful to add instruments to Starship that can shrink the error bars around water for our prospective landing site(s).
Remote water prospector ideas
Starship’s potential as a platform to transport enormous quantities of mass to Mars (and other places) is so extreme we should already be developing next generation science instruments. Some may not be ready by October 2026, but there’s another opportunity in 2028. Early Starships may not succeed, but that’s not a problem if we produce enough instruments to cover for potential losses. This has been obvious enough since 2019, and in an ideal world we’d already have a warehouse full of instruments ready to go.Ultraspectral orbital imager
Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter flies the HiRISE instrument, a 0.5 m aperture scanning camera with a resolution of 0.3 m per pixel, imaging in three color bands. The whole instrument weighs just 65 kg.What could we ship on Starship with a 600 day lead time? JPL has developed some incredible ultraspectral scanning cameras with ~6000 color channels. Hook this to a 2.5 m aperture camera mounted within a Starship that aerobrakes into orbit and we can get precise surface mineralogy at 6 cm resolution. The limitation of this approach is that much of Mars is covered in a thin but optically opaque layer of dust with relatively uniform mineralogical constituents. Still, it’s time to move beyond HiRISE!
Orbital radar
MRO also flew SHARAD, a ground penetrating radar that has helped us map and understand Mars’ ice covering, particularly where it’s obscured by a layer of surface moraine. SHARAD has collected extraordinary data for an orbital radar with a power of just 10 W! What if we used Starship to transport a dozen or so Starlink satellites to Mars, each with a software update to use their powerful phased array antenna as an orbital radar? Because they form a constellation, they could even do multistatic synthetic aperture statistics. We need to build a relay constellation in Mars orbit sooner or later. As a complementary component, we could drop a wideband radio into the orbital Starship to put out far more than 10 W at much lower frequencies, seeing deeper into the crust. We have extremely powerful, versatile, programmable digital radio front-ends these days – and we should be using them to find stuff underground, including more scrolls!Here’s an example of existing orbital datasets for the prospective landing site in the Phlegra Montes. There’s no shortage of ice, but can we easily get it into our distribution system?
Thermal imager
Mars Odyssey flew a thermal imager (THEMIS) to Mars in 2001. Part of its mission was to search for evidence of volcanism or geothermal hydrological activity (such as geysers). While THEMIS collected a global dataset for both night and day conditions, as far as I know no detections or exclusions of active geological surface heat, nor the results of a global survey, have ever been published. We could send a follow up, and far more capable, thermal imager to perform a global survey in the appropriate orbit to find any trace of excess surface heat.Non-remote water prospector ideas
Starship is designed to move 100 tonnes of cargo to Mars, so we’re not limited to larger versions of existing orbital instruments. Let’s explore options for soft-landed surface mass, or not-so-soft-landed surface mass!Surface prospector
A lander, rover, or helicopter(s) could perform direct inspection of surface conditions within a limited area adjacent to landing. For example, a Starship on the surface could literally deploy a drill and see what happens. Honeybee Robotics has developed numerous varieties of water-extracting drills. Why not yolo a few of these and see what happens?Early Starship Mars landing attempts should focus on producing numerous, relatively simple robust robots to a) hedge against potential losses by focusing on production and b) test new materials, processes, and methods that can be fed back into scaled up systems for subsequent exploration.
Rods from the gods
We know there’s a high likelihood mostly pure water ice exists within 10-20 m of the surface across large swaths of the various prospective landing sites. Why not drop off a few dozen long steel (or tungsten) spears, guide them in while tracking them on radar, and then survey their impact craters with HiRISE as soon as the dust has cleared? These rods will impact the surface at about 8 km/s, penetrating many times their length, and exposing the subsurface to our existing orbital instruments for the first time. The main attraction of this approach is that it requires essentially zero additional effort on top of the existing program, whereas the others require either a crash instrument development program, or building and flying multiple intricate surface operations robots and landing them with an extremely untested EDL system. Rods from the gods merely requires dropping a few tonnes of steel in roughly the same area and then surveying the damage. It’s also the only method that can deliver enough energy to actually directly access the deep subsurface at scale.There’s even precedent for dropping chunks of tungsten on Mars. NASA JPL’s rover missions each used eight large tungsten masses totalling 300 kg to alter aerodynamic characteristics of its aeroshell on entry, and their impacts were found with MRO after the fact.
Summary of options
In my opinion, the greatest source of uncertainty for the near term success of a Mars base, beyond Starship transport capability, is sourcing sufficient water. Any kind of industrial activity on Mars will consume water in the thousands, if not millions of tonnes. We don’t want to be constrained by raw material availability, so we have to find some way to produce a torrent of water.There are a number of ways to address this uncertainty in parallel. In terms of cost and risk, the cheapest, easiest, and least risky option is rods from the gods – and it’s also pretty fun. If we’re prepared to spend more money and allocate more engineering effort with a modest increase in risk, we can deploy numerous instruments and additional satellites into Mars orbit.
At the same time, a cost/risk optimal strategy should also allocate a modest portion of the pie to development of soft-landed surface instruments and robots to perform contact science and directly scout prospective landing locations.
Tech outlook 2028
The next next launch window is in November 2028. Starships from the previous one will land in August 2027, leaving us, at most, about 500 days to process data and assimilate results from prospecting and other tech demos on the earlier flight. This cadence will set the pattern for the next couple of decades of development. Proactive development and stockpiling of projected necessities, followed by reactive short term revision of designs and cargo in preparation for consecutive launch windows separated by only 26 months.If all goes well, the technology situation in 2028 could look like this.
SpaceX will have in-housed all the technology that’s intrinsic to successful operation of the Starship fleet, including long duration life support. They will have also taken the lead on buying down risk on key environmental parameters, which are mostly landing site water and mineral abundance.
Remaining for collaborative parties are the relatively easy task of pressure structures, and the harder tasks of developing the fuel plant, rock miners, construction robots, and any nuclear reactors. Now is the time to start work on this essential hardware!
Once these pieces are all in place, the Mars city will have secure access to import shipping capacity and all raw material inputs, as well as a large pressurized and climate controlled volume in which to build. This “terrarium” allows the rest of the industrial stack to be imported from Earth with minimal redesign or customization, limited only by shipping capacity.
The next question
What do we bring when we send people? What do we need to start working on today to ensure it is ready in time? Once we have the Mars city pressure structure and stockpiles of water, various gasses, and mineral ores in place, what needs to be sent up, how much of it, and when?
#8 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » Yesterday 18:50:33
SpaceX’s Starship is designed to be fully re-used, and its architecture relies on repurposing the landed vehicles themselves to jumpstart the construction of a Mars base. With its stainless steel structure, massive internal volume, and advanced subsystems, the landed ships become a foundation for "Mars Base Alpha".
Here is a list of Starship parts and components that can be re-used on Mars for building:
1. Structural Components
Stainless Steel Hull (304L): The main body of the ship can be repurposed into structures like Quonset huts, providing ready-made, pressure-resistant habitats, laboratories, or storage facilities. The steel performs well in extreme cold, retaining its strength and toughness.Payload Bay Shroud/Cylinder: Offering a ~1100m³ (~39,000ft³) pressurized volume, the upper payload area can be used as a large-scale habitation or greenhouse module.
Fuel Tanks (Methalox/LOX): After propellant is used for landing, the massive tanks can be repurposed as storage vessels, underground habitat foundations, or for water storage.
Dome Sections: The domed ends of the tanks can be cut and used for building specialized structural elements or reinforced roofing for surface structures.
2. Machinery and Infrastructure
Raptor Engines: These can be salvaged for spare parts, or in some scenarios, removed to serve as high-pressure pumps or components in industrial, non-flight applications.Landing Legs/Gear: These can be repurposed as heavy-duty support struts for structural construction.
Thermal Protection System Tiles: The hex tiles can be repurposed as high-temperature shielding for surface processing units (such as In-Situ Resource Utilization, or ISRU, plants).
Internal Plumbing/Wiring/Actuators: The complex, durable systems inside the rocket can be harvested for building out the infrastructure of early, primitive shelters.
3. Integrated Logistics Components
Power Management Systems: Starship’s onboard solar-charged battery systems and fuel cell hardware can provide immediate electricity for surface operations.Environmental Control and Life Support System (ECLSS): The hardware designed to keep crew alive during the 6-month transit can be adapted for the long-term surface habitation.
Cargo Rails and Moving Equipment: Internal mechanisms for handling cargo can be used to set up automated handling systems within the pressurized habitats.
4. Raw Materials (via Harvesting)
Unused Steel/Scrap: Any damaged or non-returning starships can be cut up to provide 304L stainless steel for constructing new, customized habitats, and landing pads.Landing Site Prep: The heat shield material and steel components can be used to create landing pads for future, less intense landings.
The first uncrewed cargo ships that land on Mars will likely never return to Earth, specifically because they are designed to be cannibalized for these purposes
#9 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » OpenFOAM » Yesterday 15:38:07
After thinking about the thermal engine type and the last google meeting as GW put it the oscillation results from the modeling.
similar to the engine is ION and NTP which creates thrust from temperature change.
Ion engine thrust oscillation, particularly regarding instability, often manifests as low-frequency "breathing modes" (typically 10–30 kHz) in Hall thrusters due to oscillating plasma and neutral densities.
Based on modeling and experimental data:Initial Transient Period: Thrust instability is most pronounced shortly after ignition as the thruster reaches thermal equilibrium, with significant noise observed between 150–300 seconds.
3-Second Behavior: While the major thermal stabilization occurs over hundreds of seconds, high-voltage breakdown in grid-based ion thrusters can cause immediate, short-duration thrust fluctuations, potentially lasting only a few seconds.
Modeling Approach: A zero-dimensional (0D) "predator-prey" model using two coupled ordinary differential equations is commonly used to characterize these oscillations in plasma and neutral density.
Stabilization Mechanisms: The oscillation behavior is highly dependent on the stability of the beam neutralization. If the neutralizer fails to provide electrons to neutralize the ion beam, the thruster becomes unstable, causing significant, rapid oscillations in thrust.
For modern, well-designed ion engines, once the initial startup sequence is complete (well after the first 3 seconds), the thrust is generally stable, operating with a very low-level, high-frequency noise
Thrust oscillation in hydrogen-based thermal rocket engines, particularly Nuclear Thermal Propulsion (NTP) or hydrogen-fed thrusters, is a critical transient behavior that often initiates during startup, typically appearing within the first few seconds of operation (3–40 seconds) as the engine approaches steady-state chamber pressure.
Key Aspects of the Model:
Timeframe: Instabilities often manifest immediately following ignition (within 3 seconds) or during the initial ramp-up of hydrogen flow.Mechanism: The oscillations are often driven by acoustic resonance in the combustion chamber (or reactor core) coupling with the propellant feed system, particularly when dealing with cryogenic hydrogen.
Oscillation Characteristics: These are often low-frequency (0–300 Hz) instabilities, characterized by periodic pressure, heat, and flow rate fluctuations that can lead to significant thrust oscillations.
Modeling and Simulation: Approach: Models typically use a transient analysis (e.g., using FEM or CFD in software like ANSYS) to simulate the first 3 seconds of ignition and subsequent startup phase.
Instability Drivers: In \(H_{2}/O_{2}\) systems, low-temperature hydrogen (e.g., 95 K) is known to induce self-excited instabilities. In NTP systems, the rapid heating of hydrogen to over 2500 K through the core can cause pressure spikes.
Frequency Range: Simulations frequently focus on the first longitudinal resonance (1-L) of the injector/combustion chamber. Impact at 3
Seconds:After 3 seconds, the engine is usually still in its ignition transient phase. High-frequency, self-sustained oscillations can create pressure waves with amplitudes of 80% or more of the mean chamber pressure, leading to significant thermal, pressure, and structural loads on the chamber, particularly at the throat.
#10 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » Yesterday 14:23:56
Starship's 304L stainless steel is converted into a tubular exoskeleton / space frame. The external frame is intended to allow for thermal expansion and contraction in the Martian temperature extremes between day and night.
Liquid CO2 will be pumped through the space frame in an attempt to improve upon the room temperature strength of 304L, and to regulate its temperature to avoid excessive expansion and contraction. We want to keep that stainless cold, definitely below zero, because it's weaker than A36 at room temperature, but not mildly cryogenic because we start to lose ductility and we definitely want to keep that. We're after about 517MPa to 621MPa. We don't go any colder than is required to achieve that yield strength.
The structure size / progression is ultimately limited by the number of arriving Starships. We have around 70t of the right kind of material to work with per Starship. The engines are higher grades of stainless that would be repurposed for making fasteners, tooling, and molds.
304L Temperature vs Yield Stress for Conventional 304L (green) and Laser Powder Bed Fusion (red):
As the graph above shows, laser sintering of 304 powder delivers high yield strength, partially due to formation of martensite, but we don't want martensite formation in a steel exposed to cryogenic temperatures, so we're sticking with a conventional cold-rolled seamless tubing material produced in a miniature electric arc furnace that accepts bits of recycled Starship hull scrap steel. The yield strength mechanical property is reduced, but that other important metallurgical property, namely an austenitic grain structure which confers ductility at very low temperatures, is more important for our application than pure tensile strength, which we are "thermally improving" by keeping the steel cold using cold LCO2.
#11 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 14:16:54
moving post
#12 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 14:16:48
For a Mars mission or colony of 200 crew members, mission concepts and analog studies suggest a dedicated medical team of several professionals with diverse specializations, supported by a substantial medical bay designed for high autonomy and comprehensive care.
Medical Team Composition
A crew of 200 would require a significant, multi-disciplinary medical team, as real-time evacuation or Earth-based consultation is not feasible due to communication delays (up to 24 minutes each way). The team would need to handle a wide range of conditions, from primary and preventative care to emergency trauma and surgery.
While specific numbers for a 200-person Mars mission are not finalized in publicly available sources, an internal naval comparison suggests a ratio of approximately one medical staff member for every 8-10 crew members in a large-scale scenario. Extrapolating to 200 people, this would imply a core team of approximately 20-25 medical professionals, including:
Physicians with broad experience in emergency medicine, family medicine, and general surgery.
Nurses and paramedics.
Specialists such as anesthesiologists, radiologists, and potentially dental professionals.
Psychologists/Psychiatrists to manage behavioral health and crew well-being in isolation.
Biomedical engineers/technicians for equipment maintenance and lab analysis.
All general crew members would also receive advanced first-aid training.
Medical Bay ("Sick Bay") Size and Design
The "bay size" is not a fixed dimension but rather a functional space designed to support comprehensive medical operations, from routine check-ups to complex surgeries. The design considerations emphasize autonomy and on-site capability:
Functionality: The facility must support Level IV or V care (advanced life support, basic and potentially advanced surgical care, dental, and diagnostic capabilities).
Space Standards: The medical bay must be designed to accommodate a full range of human sizes (from 1st percentile female to 99th percentile male), ensuring adequate work volume, accessibility, and range of motion for medical procedures.
Key Units: The facility would likely include:
Examination and procedure rooms.
An operating/surgical suite.
Laboratory for on-site analysis.
Dental care unit.
Inpatient/recovery beds.
Storage for medical supplies, pharmaceuticals, and equipment.
Waste management unit for medical waste disposal.
Infrastructure: It requires robust life support interfaces, specialized lighting, infection control mechanisms, privacy considerations, and integrated communication systems for telemedicine support from Earth-based flight surgeons.
Overall, the medical bay would be a significant, modular portion of the habitat, designed for self-sufficiency in a resource-restricted and extreme environment
#13 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 13:42:03
I am sure that lots of different medical and medications will need to be set for at minimal a complete suite of capability to go with the capable personnel that we will task for the well care and medical treatment capabilities, We have an idea of the what to expect from the remote locations as we will need to have the ability to do these things.
Sure we need a list for outfitting but its mostly for quantity and mass.
For a Mars mission with a 20-person crew requiring an autonomous, advanced medical capability including surgery, the medical bay and trauma area would need to be designed to accommodate a fully functional medical team and a patient, likely requiring a clear floor area of at least 250 to 300 square feet (23-28 sq meters). This size is based on terrestrial hospital guidelines for single-patient trauma rooms, adapted for a long-duration space mission's specific needs.
Medical Team Composition
Given the autonomy required for a deep space mission due to communication delays, the crew would likely include at least one or more highly trained medical professionals, potentially a flight surgeon or physician with diverse expertise. The number and skill sets of the medical team would need to support:
First aid and clinical diagnostics.
Dental care.
Trauma and emergency care.
Basic surgical capabilities.
Management of medical equipment and supplies, including potential sterilization units.
The team size would be determined by balancing the need for redundancy in expertise against the overall crew size constraints of the spacecraft.
Medical Bay Size
Trauma/Procedure Area: Terrestrial guidelines suggest a clear floor area of 250 sq ft (23 sq m) for a single-patient trauma room to ensure sufficient space for medical staff (multiple providers, potentially a trauma team), equipment, and patient access (minimum 5 feet clearance around the stretcher). A deep space habitat medical bay concept design from NASA incorporates a specific area for procedures/surgery.
Total Medical Bay: The overall medical bay would need to be larger to include areas for:
Stowage of equipment and pharmaceuticals.
Diagnostic equipment (e.g., X-ray, ultrasound, lab equipment).
Sanitation and waste management specific to medical waste.
Private consultation and record keeping using a dedicated medical computer system.
The specific dimensions would also consider anthropometric constraints (accommodating the 1st percentile female to the 99th percentile male crew population) and the unique requirements of a microgravity or partial-gravity environment, such as patient and equipment restraints
Space for patients and staff to make use of carves out square meters for each item and needs specific lighting, Specific OR areas super clean.
Medication security and more to aid in keep crew safe and alive while on mars.
#14 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 13:41:54
Medical and health monitoring systems on Mars missions will need to handle injuries and illnesses without the possibility of return to Earth. Telemedicine setups with AI diagnostics, using wearable sensors for real-time vital tracking, are being developed for this purpose. Bone density loss and muscle atrophy from microgravity transit are other health concerns that can be mitigated by exercise regimens and pharmacological countermeasures like bisphosphonates.
Psychological health is another critical aspect of long-duration space missions. Protocols are being developed to combat isolation in crews confined for over two years, including virtual reality simulations of Earth environments.
Space for patients and staff to make use of carves out square meters for each item and needs specific lighting, Specific OR areas super clean.
Medication security and more to aid in keep crew safe and alive while on mars.
While specific plans for a 20-person Mars mission are conceptual, the recommended staffing ratio, based on research into long-duration spaceflight simulations, is approximately one medical professional per every four crew members. This suggests a 20-person mission would ideally have a five-person medical team, composed of a mix of physicians and paramedics/medical specialists.
Medical Team Composition & Role
The "Space Medical Doctor" (SMD) on a Mars mission would have a multifaceted role, encompassing more than just primary care due to the long duration and communication delays with Earth (up to 40 minutes one way).
Key functions would include:
Flight Surgeon/Primary Care Physician: Responsible for the overall health and well-being of the crew.
Surgeon/Emergency Medicine Physician: Essential for managing acute trauma and surgical needs, as medical evacuation is not an option.
Specialists: Potentially a dentist, psychologist, pharmacist, and laboratory technician, possibly filled by cross-trained team members.
Scientist: The medical officer would also conduct research on the effects of spaceflight on the human body.
Medical Autonomy & Technology
Due to the communication lag, crews will require significant autonomy during medical emergencies. Research and development efforts are focused on providing advanced support systems:
"Just-in-Time" Training: Immersive training using technologies like VR and AR to prepare non-medical crew members to assist in procedures.
Advanced Diagnostics: Development of portable diagnostic tools, such as specialized ultrasound technology for issues like kidney stones.
Biomedical Technologies: Utilizing technologies like biochips for rapid analysis and potentially 3D printing for customized medical equipment, casts, and even basic tissues or drugs.
AI Assistants: NASA and Google are exploring the use of AI medical assistants to aid crews in decision-making and patient care without constant ground support.
Current Research
Analog missions, such as NASA's CHAPEA (Crew Health and Performance Exploration Analog) and The Mars Society's Mars Desert Research Station (MDRS), use small crews (typically 4-6 people) that include a crew medical officer to test these protocols and gather data on the physical and psychological challenges of long-duration isolation
Key functions of the Space Medical Doctor (SMD)
1) Flight Surgeon/Primary Care Physician
2) Dentist
3) Scientist
4) Psychologist
5) Safety Officer
6) Pharmacist
7) Nursing
8) Rehabilitation technician
9) Emergency Medical Technician
10) Laboratory Technician
11) Medical writer and journalist
#15 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » Yesterday 13:41:43
Fishbone theory, or the Fishbone Diagram (also known as an Ishikawa Diagram or Cause-and-Effect Diagram), is a visual tool for root cause analysis that maps out potential causes of a problem in a fish-skeleton-like structure, helping teams brainstorm, categorize, and identify underlying issues, not just symptoms, for better problem-solving in quality control and management. The problem is the "head," and major causes branch off the "backbone" as "ribs," with sub-causes extending further, revealing hidden linkages and process bottlenecks for future improvements.
Key Components & Structure
Head (Right): The specific problem or defect being analyzed.
Backbone (Horizontal Line): Connects the head to the causes.
Major Causes (Ribs): Large bones branching off the backbone, representing broad categories (e.g., People, Method, Machine, Material,
Measurement, Environment).
Root Causes (Smaller Bones): Sub-branches extending from the major causes, detailing specific reasons within each category.
How it Works (The Process)
Define the Problem: Clearly state the issue in the "head".
Identify Categories: Determine major areas where causes might originate (e.g., the 6 Ms: Methods, Machines, Materials, Manpower, Measurement, Mother Nature/Environment).
Brainstorm Causes: For each category, list all possible causes, adding them as smaller bones.
Deep Dive: Use techniques like the "5 Whys" on sub-branches to find deeper root causes.
Benefits & Uses
Visualizes complex problems: Makes it easy to see all potential causes at once.
Promotes shared understanding: Helps teams build consensus on a problem.
Focuses on root causes: Moves beyond symptoms to find the source of issues.
Used in many fields: Popular in manufacturing, healthcare, quality management, and product development
Fishbone link to our topics Bookmark
#16 Re: Meta New Mars » Bookmark Bookmarks Find it Again help » Yesterday 13:39:03
I did a quick check and we had 2 users with the Dayton but they were not related to this particular power Museum.
#17 Re: Meta New Mars » RobertDyck Postings » 2026-01-16 18:46:07
The large ships ring is 19 meters on the circumference which is the floor or ceiling of the structure for the torus touching the mars surface.
The ribs were solved for the framing in a similar manner for constructing after I suggested how to build in sections. Something like a Ferris wheel.
#18 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » KBD512 Biosphere structure of cast basalt » 2026-01-16 18:42:02
Again shape still may change as its never been built as if we are on mars.
It is unknown how fast the mining of ore, processing to be able to cast panels, but to make and weld the frame is also a question. Time and crew size plus equipment causes the build to be pushed across multiple cycles.
Funny we have been there for Cast Basalt
With Basalt melting at temperatures of 1175 - 1350°C, depending on composition.
Similar equipment for other mining operations.
Basalt mining and processing require extremely wear‑resistant, high‑capacity equipment because basalt is one of the hardest and most abrasive natural stones. The core machinery includes drilling/blasting tools, heavy-duty loaders, jaw and cone crushers, VSI sand makers, vibrating screens, and dust‑controlled conveyor systems.
Below is a clear, structured breakdown of the full equipment lineup and process flow, grounded in the latest industry data.
? What Equipment Is Used for Basalt Mining & Processing?
1. Mining / Quarrying Equipment
Basalt is typically extracted from open‑pit quarries.Extraction Tools
Drilling rigs – for blast‑hole drilling in hard rock.Explosives & blasting systems – controlled fragmentation of basalt benches.
Hydraulic excavators (30–70 ton) – for loading blasted rock.
Wheel loaders & haul trucks – transport raw basalt to the processing plant.
? 2. Primary Processing Equipment (Crushing)
Basalt’s hardness (Mohs 5–6.5) demands high‑strength crushing machines.Primary Crusher
Jaw CrusherHandles large basalt blocks up to 700–1200 mm.
High-strength manganese plates.
Example: C6X Jaw Crusher.
Secondary Crusher
Hydraulic Cone CrusherIdeal for medium-hard basalt.
Produces uniform, cubical aggregates.
Multi‑cylinder design reduces wear costs.
Tertiary Crusher (Optional)
VSI Sand MakerUsed when producing manufactured sand or highly cubic aggregates.
Common in asphalt and concrete aggregate plants.
? 3. Screening & Sorting Equipment
Vibrating screens (2–4 decks)Separate crushed basalt into size fractions (e.g., 0–5 mm, 5–12 mm, 12–22 mm).
High-strength screen meshes
Required due to basalt’s abrasiveness.
? 4. Material Handling Systems
Belt conveyors (650–1000 mm width)Abrasion‑resistant belts and dust‑proof covers.
Hoppers & feeders
Heavy-duty vibrating feeders with wear liners.
? 5. Optional Processing Equipment
Depending on the final product:For Manufactured Sand
VSI or HVI sand-making machinesAir separators for fine control
For High‑Quality Aggregates
Hydraulic cone crushers (HPT, HP series)Washing systems (log washers, spiral washers)
For Basalt Fiber Production
Basalt melting furnaceFiber drawing equipment
Winding machines
? 6. Typical Basalt Crushing Plant Configuration
Based on industry-standard setups:Stage Equipment Purpose
Feeding Hopper + Vibrating Feeder Regulated feeding of raw basalt
Primary Jaw Crusher First-stage size reduction
Secondary Cone Crusher Produces uniform aggregates
Tertiary VSI Crusher Sand making / shaping
Screening Multi‑deck Vibrating Screen Size classification
Conveying Belt Conveyors Material transport
Example capacity: 250–450 TPH basalt plant with jaw + cone + VSI + screens.? Tips for Choosing Basalt Processing Equipment
Prioritize wear resistance (manganese steel, ceramic liners).Use compression crushers (jaw + cone) to reduce wear costs.
Ensure dust suppression for environmental compliance.
Choose variable-speed feeders to stabilize plant output.
For sand production, include VSI or HVI machines.
? Sources
MINEVATE Basalt Crushing & Screening PlantLiming Heavy Industry Basalt Crusher Overview
Zoneding Basalt Crushing Plant Guide
CCE Online News – Basalt Quarry Equipment Selection
Fote Machinery – Basalt Crushing Process & Machines
Designing interlocking cast‑basalt thick tile panels for use on Mars is a fascinating challenge because it blends planetary engineering, materials science, and in‑situ resource utilization (ISRU). You’re essentially asking: How could we manufacture basalt‑based structural panels on Mars that lock together like giant LEGO blocks and survive Martian conditions?
Let’s build a complete, realistic process from extraction to finished interlocking tiles.
? 1. Basalt as a Martian Manufacturing Feedstock
Basalt is abundant on Mars. It’s chemically similar to terrestrial basalt and ideal for:Casting into tiles or panels
Melting into basalt fiber
Forming abrasion‑resistant surfaces
Thermal and radiation shielding
Its melting point (~1200–1250°C) is high but manageable with electric or solar‑thermal furnaces.
? 2. Full Process for Creating Interlocking Cast Basalt Panels on Mars
Step 1 — Basalt Collection & Pre‑Processing
Robotic excavators or small autonomous rovers gather basalt rubble.Material is crushed into uniform feedstock (5–20 mm).
Magnetic separation removes iron-rich particles if needed for furnace efficiency.
Mars advantage: Low gravity reduces wear on crushers and conveyors.
Step 2 — Melting the Basalt
Basalt must be melted into a homogenous liquid.Possible furnace types for Mars
Solar‑thermal concentrator furnaceUses mirrors to reach >1300°C
No oxygen required
Ideal for daytime production
Electric resistance furnace
Powered by nuclear or solar arrays
More stable temperature control
Induction furnace
Efficient if basalt is pre‑enriched with iron
The melt is held at ~1250–1350°C.
Step 3 — Casting Into Interlocking Tile Molds
This is the heart of your idea.Tile geometry
Interlocking basalt tiles could use:Tongue‑and‑groove edges
Dovetail joints
Hexagonal puzzle‑fit geometry
Male/female castellated edges
These shapes prevent lateral shifting and allow construction without adhesives.
Casting process
Pre‑heated molds (steel, ceramic, or regolith‑ceramic composite) are prepared.Molten basalt is poured into molds under low atmospheric pressure.
Controlled cooling prevents cracking.
Annealing phase relieves internal stresses.
Thickness:
20–80 mm for structural panels
100–150 mm for radiation shielding or load‑bearing walls
Step 4 — Controlled Cooling & Annealing
Mars’ environment is extremely cold, so cooling must be regulated, not passive.Tiles are cooled in insulated chambers to avoid thermal shock.
Annealing at 500–600°C for several hours improves toughness.
Step 5 — Surface Finishing
Depending on use:Polished for interior habitats
Textured for traction on exterior walkways
Grooved for mechanical interlock with regolith backfill
Coated with thin basalt‑fiber mesh for crack resistance
Step 6 — Quality Testing
Tiles must survive:Thermal cycling from −120°C to +20°C
Dust abrasion
Low‑pressure fracture tests
Radiation exposure simulations
Impact resistance (meteoroid micro‑debris)
? 3. Assembly of Interlocking Panels on Mars
Dry‑fit construction
Because water is scarce, tiles should assemble without mortar.Possible assembly methods
Robotic arms place tiles into interlocking patterns.Regolith backfill locks panels in place.
Basalt‑fiber tie rods or pins reinforce joints.
Vacuum‑tight interior walls may use a thin polymer seal between tiles.
? 4. Why Cast Basalt Panels Are Ideal for Mars
Radiation shielding (dense, high‑silica material)Thermal stability
Abrasion resistance against dust storms
ISRU‑friendly (basalt is everywhere)
Non‑toxic, non‑flammable
Long lifespan
Interlocking geometry reduces the need for adhesives, which are expensive to transport from Earth.
? 5. Optional Enhancements
Basalt‑fiber reinforcement
Mixing chopped basalt fiber into the melt increases toughness.Hollow‑core tiles
Reduce mass and improve insulation.Embedded channels
For wiring, heating loops, or gas lines.Self‑locking hexagonal tiles
Inspired by honeycomb structures for pressure‑resistant habitats.If you want, I can also design:
A specific interlocking geometryA full production line layout for a Martian basalt tile factory
A tile panel standard (dimensions, tolerances, strength specs)
A robotic assembly system for building habitats with these tiles
The most promising sites cluster around volcanic provinces, ancient lakebeds, and polar regions, according to recent analyses.
Below is a clean, practical breakdown of where humans would actually mine on Mars based on current science.
? 1. Best Locations for Basalt Mining (for cast basalt tiles, ISRU construction)
Basalt is everywhere on Mars, but the richest, freshest, and easiest‑to‑access deposits are:Tharsis Volcanic Province
Includes Olympus Mons, Ascraeus Mons, Pavonis Mons, Arsia MonsGiant basaltic shield volcanoes
High‑purity basalt ideal for casting, fiber production, and structural materials
Highlighted as resource‑rich volcanic zones
Elysium Planitia
Young basaltic lava plainsSmooth terrain → easy rover access
Good for large‑scale basalt tile production
Gale Crater Region
Curiosity rover confirmed basaltic provenance in sedimentsAbundant basalt fragments transported by ancient rivers
Jezerο Crater
Perseverance rover found basaltic igneous rocks in crater floorEasy to collect and crush for ISRU
❄️ 2. Best Locations for Water Ice Mining
Water ice is the most valuable early resource.Mid‑Latitude Ice Deposits
Arcadia PlanitiaUtopia Planitia
Vast subsurface ice sheets
Easy to access with shallow drilling
Polar Regions
North Polar Layered DepositsThick, clean water ice
Highest volume but harder to reach for early missions
? 3. Metal & Mineral Mining Locations
Based on rover samples and meteorite analysis:Volcanic Slopes of Tharsis & Elysium
Likely sources of:Nickel
Chromium
Titanium
Identified as high‑value targets for future mining robots
Hematite‑Rich Regions
Meridiani Planum (Opportunity rover site)Contains iron oxides (hematite “blueberries”)
Sulfur, Chlorine, Potassium, Phosphorus
Widely distributed in Martian regolithUseful for agriculture, batteries, and chemical processing
? 4. Best Locations for Construction Materials (Regolith, Basalt, Silicates)
Valles Marineris walls – layered basalt and sedimentLava tubes in Tharsis & Elysium – natural shelters + basaltic rock
Isidis Basin – basaltic plains with fine regolith
?️ 5. Summary Table: What to Mine and Where
Resource Best Locations Why
Basalt Tharsis, Elysium, Gale, Jezero Casting, tiles, fibers
Water Ice Arcadia, Utopia, Poles Life support, fuel
Metals (Ni, Ti, Cr) Tharsis volcanoes Concentrated in volcanic flows
Iron Oxides Meridiani Planum Hematite nodules
Silicates Everywhere Glass, ceramics
Salts & Volatiles Regolith globally Agriculture, chemistry
? If your goal is specifically basalt tile production for Mars:
The top two mining zones are:⭐ Elysium Planitia
Flat, accessible, young basaltIdeal for large automated factories
⭐ Tharsis Montes (volcano slopes)
Highest‑quality basaltRich in metals for tools and furnace components
If you want, I can also map out:
A full mining + processing base layout
A site selection comparison (Elysium vs Tharsis vs Jezero)
A logistics plan for transporting basalt to a casting facility
#19 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » KBD512 Biosphere structure of cast basalt » 2026-01-16 18:16:54
Some of KBD512 posts for the cast basalt is in Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus
This Stanford Torus structure artistic rendering from Nichlas Benjamin is more in line with what I had in mind for the exterior support rest of the habitation ring:
The interior would be lined with cast basalt tiles like these:
Basalt can be cast into relatively complex shapes and has a strikingly beautiful natural appearance:
So, basic concept is as follows:
1. excessive number of floors requiring elevators, with reduced structural materials strength and therefore mass requirements,
2. Starship's 304L stainless steel is converted into a tubular exoskeleton / space frame. The external frame is intended to allow for thermal expansion and contraction in the Martian temperature extremes between day and night.
3. Cast basalt tiles / blocks are inserted into the frame and sealed using Silicone caulk.
4. Liquid CO2 will be pumped through the space frame in an attempt to improve upon the room temperature strength of 304L, and to regulate its temperature to avoid excessive expansion and contraction. We want to keep that stainless cold, definitely below zero, because it's weaker than A36 at room temperature, but not mildly cryogenic because we start to lose ductility and we definitely want to keep that. We're after about 517MPa to 621MPa. We don't go any colder than is required to achieve that yield strength.
5. The structure size / progression is ultimately limited by the number of arriving Starships. We have around 70t of the right kind of material to work with per Starship. The engines are higher grades of stainless that would be repurposed for making fasteners, tooling, and molds.304L Temperature vs Yield Stress for Conventional 304L (green) and Laser Powder Bed Fusion (red):
As the graph above shows, laser sintering of 304 powder delivers high yield strength, partially due to formation of martensite, but we don't want martensite formation in a steel exposed to cryogenic temperatures, so we're sticking with a conventional cold-rolled seamless tubing material produced in a miniature electric arc furnace that accepts bits of recycled Starship hull scrap steel. The yield strength mechanical property is reduced, but that other important metallurgical property, namely an austenitic grain structure which confers ductility at very low temperatures, is more important for our application than pure tensile strength, which we are "thermally improving" by keeping the steel cold using cold LCO2.
#20 Re: Not So Free Chat » Void Postings » 2026-01-16 18:10:09
Sorry to hear that Void has suffered a mini stroke as I have had been suffering as well from a more damaging one as well.
#21 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » 2026-01-16 17:59:18
build up of left behind ships might follow this progreession
1. Knowing that Starship plans to send 4 cargo and 2 crewed for the mars first mission of 20 crew means that outgoing will only use 1 starship for the return flight to earth. It would need to do initial setup of fuel factory along with the science and site exploration for the future flights going to the same site.
2. keeping to the same ship cadence means only the shift of crew count to 100 to consumables will change for the out going with a similar return single ship for earth return leaves another starship crewed vehicle with 4 cargo on the surface. The early construction is for a care taker population that works to get a functioning greenhouse structure built.
3. this is to establish small colony as food production will be set aside for more building materials for building the exploration construction base. It will of course keep to the same ship cadence for the out with crew of 200 split between the 2 crewed ships with hopefully both coming back leaving only 4 cargo ships to make use of on the next cycle.
4. increase crew and less cargo ships is the possibility
#22 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus » 2026-01-16 17:46:59
Funny we have been there for Cast Basalt
With Basalt melting at temperatures of 1175 - 1350°C, depending on composition.
Similar equipment for other mining operations.
Basalt mining and processing require extremely wear‑resistant, high‑capacity equipment because basalt is one of the hardest and most abrasive natural stones. The core machinery includes drilling/blasting tools, heavy-duty loaders, jaw and cone crushers, VSI sand makers, vibrating screens, and dust‑controlled conveyor systems.
Below is a clear, structured breakdown of the full equipment lineup and process flow, grounded in the latest industry data.
? What Equipment Is Used for Basalt Mining & Processing?
1. Mining / Quarrying Equipment
Basalt is typically extracted from open‑pit quarries.Extraction Tools
Drilling rigs – for blast‑hole drilling in hard rock.Explosives & blasting systems – controlled fragmentation of basalt benches.
Hydraulic excavators (30–70 ton) – for loading blasted rock.
Wheel loaders & haul trucks – transport raw basalt to the processing plant.
? 2. Primary Processing Equipment (Crushing)
Basalt’s hardness (Mohs 5–6.5) demands high‑strength crushing machines.Primary Crusher
Jaw CrusherHandles large basalt blocks up to 700–1200 mm.
High-strength manganese plates.
Example: C6X Jaw Crusher.
Secondary Crusher
Hydraulic Cone CrusherIdeal for medium-hard basalt.
Produces uniform, cubical aggregates.
Multi‑cylinder design reduces wear costs.
Tertiary Crusher (Optional)
VSI Sand MakerUsed when producing manufactured sand or highly cubic aggregates.
Common in asphalt and concrete aggregate plants.
? 3. Screening & Sorting Equipment
Vibrating screens (2–4 decks)Separate crushed basalt into size fractions (e.g., 0–5 mm, 5–12 mm, 12–22 mm).
High-strength screen meshes
Required due to basalt’s abrasiveness.
? 4. Material Handling Systems
Belt conveyors (650–1000 mm width)Abrasion‑resistant belts and dust‑proof covers.
Hoppers & feeders
Heavy-duty vibrating feeders with wear liners.
? 5. Optional Processing Equipment
Depending on the final product:For Manufactured Sand
VSI or HVI sand-making machinesAir separators for fine control
For High‑Quality Aggregates
Hydraulic cone crushers (HPT, HP series)Washing systems (log washers, spiral washers)
For Basalt Fiber Production
Basalt melting furnaceFiber drawing equipment
Winding machines
? 6. Typical Basalt Crushing Plant Configuration
Based on industry-standard setups:Stage Equipment Purpose
Feeding Hopper + Vibrating Feeder Regulated feeding of raw basalt
Primary Jaw Crusher First-stage size reduction
Secondary Cone Crusher Produces uniform aggregates
Tertiary VSI Crusher Sand making / shaping
Screening Multi‑deck Vibrating Screen Size classification
Conveying Belt Conveyors Material transport
Example capacity: 250–450 TPH basalt plant with jaw + cone + VSI + screens.? Tips for Choosing Basalt Processing Equipment
Prioritize wear resistance (manganese steel, ceramic liners).Use compression crushers (jaw + cone) to reduce wear costs.
Ensure dust suppression for environmental compliance.
Choose variable-speed feeders to stabilize plant output.
For sand production, include VSI or HVI machines.
? Sources
MINEVATE Basalt Crushing & Screening PlantLiming Heavy Industry Basalt Crusher Overview
Zoneding Basalt Crushing Plant Guide
CCE Online News – Basalt Quarry Equipment Selection
Fote Machinery – Basalt Crushing Process & Machines
Designing interlocking cast‑basalt thick tile panels for use on Mars is a fascinating challenge because it blends planetary engineering, materials science, and in‑situ resource utilization (ISRU). You’re essentially asking: How could we manufacture basalt‑based structural panels on Mars that lock together like giant LEGO blocks and survive Martian conditions?
Let’s build a complete, realistic process from extraction to finished interlocking tiles.
? 1. Basalt as a Martian Manufacturing Feedstock
Basalt is abundant on Mars. It’s chemically similar to terrestrial basalt and ideal for:Casting into tiles or panels
Melting into basalt fiber
Forming abrasion‑resistant surfaces
Thermal and radiation shielding
Its melting point (~1200–1250°C) is high but manageable with electric or solar‑thermal furnaces.
? 2. Full Process for Creating Interlocking Cast Basalt Panels on Mars
Step 1 — Basalt Collection & Pre‑Processing
Robotic excavators or small autonomous rovers gather basalt rubble.Material is crushed into uniform feedstock (5–20 mm).
Magnetic separation removes iron-rich particles if needed for furnace efficiency.
Mars advantage: Low gravity reduces wear on crushers and conveyors.
Step 2 — Melting the Basalt
Basalt must be melted into a homogenous liquid.Possible furnace types for Mars
Solar‑thermal concentrator furnaceUses mirrors to reach >1300°C
No oxygen required
Ideal for daytime production
Electric resistance furnace
Powered by nuclear or solar arrays
More stable temperature control
Induction furnace
Efficient if basalt is pre‑enriched with iron
The melt is held at ~1250–1350°C.
Step 3 — Casting Into Interlocking Tile Molds
This is the heart of your idea.Tile geometry
Interlocking basalt tiles could use:Tongue‑and‑groove edges
Dovetail joints
Hexagonal puzzle‑fit geometry
Male/female castellated edges
These shapes prevent lateral shifting and allow construction without adhesives.
Casting process
Pre‑heated molds (steel, ceramic, or regolith‑ceramic composite) are prepared.Molten basalt is poured into molds under low atmospheric pressure.
Controlled cooling prevents cracking.
Annealing phase relieves internal stresses.
Thickness:
20–80 mm for structural panels
100–150 mm for radiation shielding or load‑bearing walls
Step 4 — Controlled Cooling & Annealing
Mars’ environment is extremely cold, so cooling must be regulated, not passive.Tiles are cooled in insulated chambers to avoid thermal shock.
Annealing at 500–600°C for several hours improves toughness.
Step 5 — Surface Finishing
Depending on use:Polished for interior habitats
Textured for traction on exterior walkways
Grooved for mechanical interlock with regolith backfill
Coated with thin basalt‑fiber mesh for crack resistance
Step 6 — Quality Testing
Tiles must survive:Thermal cycling from −120°C to +20°C
Dust abrasion
Low‑pressure fracture tests
Radiation exposure simulations
Impact resistance (meteoroid micro‑debris)
? 3. Assembly of Interlocking Panels on Mars
Dry‑fit construction
Because water is scarce, tiles should assemble without mortar.Possible assembly methods
Robotic arms place tiles into interlocking patterns.Regolith backfill locks panels in place.
Basalt‑fiber tie rods or pins reinforce joints.
Vacuum‑tight interior walls may use a thin polymer seal between tiles.
? 4. Why Cast Basalt Panels Are Ideal for Mars
Radiation shielding (dense, high‑silica material)Thermal stability
Abrasion resistance against dust storms
ISRU‑friendly (basalt is everywhere)
Non‑toxic, non‑flammable
Long lifespan
Interlocking geometry reduces the need for adhesives, which are expensive to transport from Earth.
? 5. Optional Enhancements
Basalt‑fiber reinforcement
Mixing chopped basalt fiber into the melt increases toughness.Hollow‑core tiles
Reduce mass and improve insulation.Embedded channels
For wiring, heating loops, or gas lines.Self‑locking hexagonal tiles
Inspired by honeycomb structures for pressure‑resistant habitats.If you want, I can also design:
A specific interlocking geometryA full production line layout for a Martian basalt tile factory
A tile panel standard (dimensions, tolerances, strength specs)
A robotic assembly system for building habitats with these tiles
The most promising sites cluster around volcanic provinces, ancient lakebeds, and polar regions, according to recent analyses.
Below is a clean, practical breakdown of where humans would actually mine on Mars based on current science.
? 1. Best Locations for Basalt Mining (for cast basalt tiles, ISRU construction)
Basalt is everywhere on Mars, but the richest, freshest, and easiest‑to‑access deposits are:Tharsis Volcanic Province
Includes Olympus Mons, Ascraeus Mons, Pavonis Mons, Arsia MonsGiant basaltic shield volcanoes
High‑purity basalt ideal for casting, fiber production, and structural materials
Highlighted as resource‑rich volcanic zones
Elysium Planitia
Young basaltic lava plainsSmooth terrain → easy rover access
Good for large‑scale basalt tile production
Gale Crater Region
Curiosity rover confirmed basaltic provenance in sedimentsAbundant basalt fragments transported by ancient rivers
Jezerο Crater
Perseverance rover found basaltic igneous rocks in crater floorEasy to collect and crush for ISRU
❄️ 2. Best Locations for Water Ice Mining
Water ice is the most valuable early resource.Mid‑Latitude Ice Deposits
Arcadia PlanitiaUtopia Planitia
Vast subsurface ice sheets
Easy to access with shallow drilling
Polar Regions
North Polar Layered DepositsThick, clean water ice
Highest volume but harder to reach for early missions
? 3. Metal & Mineral Mining Locations
Based on rover samples and meteorite analysis:Volcanic Slopes of Tharsis & Elysium
Likely sources of:Nickel
Chromium
Titanium
Identified as high‑value targets for future mining robots
Hematite‑Rich Regions
Meridiani Planum (Opportunity rover site)Contains iron oxides (hematite “blueberries”)
Sulfur, Chlorine, Potassium, Phosphorus
Widely distributed in Martian regolithUseful for agriculture, batteries, and chemical processing
? 4. Best Locations for Construction Materials (Regolith, Basalt, Silicates)
Valles Marineris walls – layered basalt and sedimentLava tubes in Tharsis & Elysium – natural shelters + basaltic rock
Isidis Basin – basaltic plains with fine regolith
?️ 5. Summary Table: What to Mine and Where
Resource Best Locations Why
Basalt Tharsis, Elysium, Gale, Jezero Casting, tiles, fibers
Water Ice Arcadia, Utopia, Poles Life support, fuel
Metals (Ni, Ti, Cr) Tharsis volcanoes Concentrated in volcanic flows
Iron Oxides Meridiani Planum Hematite nodules
Silicates Everywhere Glass, ceramics
Salts & Volatiles Regolith globally Agriculture, chemistry
? If your goal is specifically basalt tile production for Mars:
The top two mining zones are:⭐ Elysium Planitia
Flat, accessible, young basaltIdeal for large automated factories
⭐ Tharsis Montes (volcano slopes)
Highest‑quality basaltRich in metals for tools and furnace components
If you want, I can also map out:
A full mining + processing base layout
A site selection comparison (Elysium vs Tharsis vs Jezero)
A logistics plan for transporting basalt to a casting facility
#23 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus » 2026-01-16 17:35:38
For kbd512 ... There is a new topic available if you would care to develop your ideas for a ring shaped habitat on Mars...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=11287
Please begin by setting the dimensions so that others can begin to help to build up a vision of the idea.
The Stanford Torus may be larger than you have in mind, but is a well developed model that might provide inspiration for your concept.
Unlike Calliban's dome, your concept appears to have potential for construction outside a Crater.
It will definitely be interesting to see what members do with the concept, but it needs dimensions so that folks have something to work with.
(th)
It could be the same size or different due to other factors yet not determined...
For kbd512 re D shaped habitat ring ...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 29#p237229In some habitat designs, regolith is piled on top to provide radiation shielding. Is the structure you've considering strong enough to handle that load? The cast basalt panels might be strong enough to handle the compression load.
A regolith outer layer would provide thermal buffering, although some heat will be lost as the planet sucks energy out of any structure. Heat from a fission reactor might provide a constant supply of fresh thermal energy for an extended period.
Your D shaped structure has the distinct advantage of solving the foundation problem that other designs must handle.
(th)
Again shape still may change as its never been built as if we are on mars.
It is unknown how fast the mining of ore, processing to be able to cast panels, but to make and weld the frame is also a question. Time and crew size plus equipment causes the build to be pushed across multiple cycles.
reminds me of
#24 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » 2026-01-15 18:14:31
The official SpaceX Starship Users Guide provides high-level payload accommodation information and general specifications for the Starship system, but does not offer a detailed "manual" or "guide" broken down by specific, publicly available internal component "block sizes" or versions (Block 1, 2, 3, etc.).
The user guide is primarily for potential customers and contains general information about the vehicle's capabilities. Specific details about the internal design changes between different block versions (e.g., Block 1 vs. Block 2) are technical engineering details discussed in space enthusiast forums and technical analyses, not typically found in public user manuals.
SpaceX Starship Users Guide Content
The public guide, available as a PDF from sources like laacz.lv, outlines the following general specifications:
Payload Volume: An 8 m (26 ft) diameter dynamic envelope.
Payload Height: A standard payload volume with an extended option available for payloads requiring up to 22 m (72 ft) of height.
Payload Capacity: Capable of carrying over 100 metric tons to Low Earth Orbit (LEO) in a reusable configuration.
Payload Integration: Payloads are integrated vertically into the Starship fairing within cleanrooms before being transported to the launch pad.Technical Differences Between Block Versions
Details on different "block" versions relate to internal design improvements, such as enhanced stringers, different tank designs, and upgraded engines, which are part of SpaceX's ongoing development process and not part of a standard user manual for a customer. These design changes are summarized in technical discussions as follows:
Block 1: Featured smaller internal tanks compared to Block 2, with specific weld line configurations in the domes that required significant manufacturing effort.
Block 2: Includes design updates like added stringers in the methane tanks (Block 1 only had them in oxygen tanks) and different heat shield alignments for the flaps.
Block 3 (V3): Proposed to be noticeably longer than V2, with more propellant capacity in both the booster (12% more) and upper stage (6% more), while achieving a lower dry mass
https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-t … guide.html
A general Starship Users Guide is publicly available from SpaceX, providing preliminary information on payload accommodations. The guide describes a large, flexible payload volume rather than a system of fixed "block sizes" or specific cargo manuals for each; specific integration details require direct consultation with the company.
Starship Payload Information
The existing guide outlines general capabilities and physical dimensions rather than separate manuals for different fixed sizes. The primary focus is on the large internal volume and the flexibility offered to customers.
Standard Payload Volume: The primary dynamic envelope is 8 meters in diameter. The standard available height is approximately 17.24 meters, offering a significant volume for a wide range of payloads.
Extended Payload Volume: For payloads requiring more length, an extended volume of up to 22 meters in height is available. This means the cargo bay can be adjusted in size to meet customer needs.
Payload Integration: Payloads are integrated vertically in a cleanroom environment. SpaceX can accommodate standard payload interface systems (such as 937-mm, 1194-mm, 1666-mm, and 2624-mm clampband interfaces used on Falcon vehicles) and is willing to design non-standard adapters.
Deployment: Depending on the mission, deployment systems vary. For Starlink satellites, a "PEZ dispenser" system is used. For larger cargo, a clamshell fairing door opens, and the payload adapter tilts the cargo for separation.
Customization: SpaceX emphasizes a flexible approach, encouraging potential customers to contact their sales team (sales@spacex.com) to evaluate how Starship can meet their unique needs, suggesting a highly customizable service rather than a rigid set of options.
For the most up-to-date and specific technical details, the official, current Starship Users Guide should be consulted, or potential customers can contact SpaceX directly.
SpaceX has released a public Starship Users Guide that primarily provides preliminary payload accommodation information for potential customers. This document is a technical guide for cargo and satellite integration, not a detailed operational manual or a crew-specific manual with flight instructions for passengers/crew.
Publicly Available Starship Information
Payload Focus: The available guide is aimed at commercial customers and provides technical details on the payload bay, interfaces, and environments. It discusses the capacity to transport satellites, large observatories, and cargo.Crew Configuration Details: The public guide mentions the notional crew configuration will include "private cabins, large common areas, centralized storage, solar storm shelters and a viewing gallery," but it does not provide an in-depth operational or safety manual for living and working aboard the ship.
"Block Sizes": The current documentation describes a standard Starship vehicle with a 9m diameter and an extended payload volume option, rather than distinct "block sizes" in the traditional sense. The design is rapidly evolving, and the guide itself is noted as an "initial release" that will be updated frequently.
Lack of a Detailed Crew Manual
A comprehensive, detailed user guide or operational manual for a crewed mission (analogous to an aircraft flight manual or an astronaut's manual for the Space Shuttle/ISS) is not publicly available. Such documentation is likely considered proprietary, sensitive operational information, and subject to ongoing development and regulatory approval (e.g., FAA, NASA safety standards) as the vehicle is still in its flight testing phase.For those interested in the public information, the official Starship Users Guide can be viewed online. Potential customers with specific mission needs are directed to contact SpaceX sales for detailed evaluations
#25 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » 2026-01-15 18:09:46
We are now quite far off from seeing what the starship can or could provide as starting point with these shape and construction thoughts.