New Mars Forums
You are not logged in.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Announcement
#1 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Brick on Mars » Today 16:08:34
post for the dome
The dome shown here has a diameter of 200m (650'). This gives an internal land area of 3.14 hectares.
I am reminded of Biosphere 2 size and scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2
It is a 3.14-acre (1.27-hectare)[2] structure originally built to be an artificial, materially closed ecological system, or vivarium.
The main Biosphere 2 crew size for its primary two-year mission (1991-1993) was eight people (four men, four women) in a sealed, self-sustaining ecosystem, with a smaller, seven-person crew for a shorter, second mission in 1994. These crews studied closed-system living, a precursor to space colonization, managing complex biomes and food production within the massive glass structure.
seven biome areas were a 1,900-square-meter (20,000 sq ft) rainforest, an 850-square-meter (9,100 sq ft) ocean with a coral reef, a 450-square-meter (4,800 sq ft) mangrove wetlands, a 1,300-square-metre (14,000 sq ft) savannah grassland, a 1,400-square-meter (15,000 sq ft) fog desert, and two anthropogenic biomes: a 2,500-square-meter (27,000 sq ft) agricultural system and a human habitat with living spaces, laboratories and workshops.
The oxygen inside the facility, which began at 20.9%, fell at a steady pace and after 16 months was down to 14.5%. This is equivalent to the oxygen availability at an elevation of 4,080 meters (13,390 ft
Lets not repeat failure by assuming earth as the base.
#2 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » Today 15:51:44
The lunar mars greenhouse is sized for 5.5m by 2.1 meter cylinder that used a 1000 w mercury light for heat as well as for light. Something that we will not be doing.
For a single astronaut, a lunar greenhouse needs enough space for food, air, and water recycling, with NASA concepts suggesting around 28-40 square meters (300-430 sq ft) of cultivation area for 50% caloric needs, while smaller habitat modules might use 3-4.5 m² for basic needs, emphasizing volume and flexibility, not just area, for crew comfort and functions. Actual sizes vary wildly, from small, deployable units to massive, buried structures, but expect a dedicated module or significant habitat volume.
Key Factors Influencing Size:Food vs. Life Support: A greenhouse providing 100% oxygen and water recycling needs a different footprint than one just supplementing food.
Caloric Needs: Growing 50% of a 2000 kcal/day diet (1000 kcal) requires roughly 28-40 m².
Habitat Integration: Some designs integrate growing areas within living quarters (like HAVEN), while others are separate, buried modules for radiation protection.Technology: Hydroponics, lighting, and automation affect space efficiency.
Examples of Proposed Sizes:
ED&EN ISS Prototype: Around 30 m² (323 sq ft) for food on Moon/Mars.
Mars-Lunar Greenhouse (MLGH): Aims for 28-40 m² for a crew of four.
Lunar FARM (Concept): A large concept with 538 m² for 18 astronauts, showing scalability.
HAVEN (Habitat Module): Smaller modules (3-4.5 m²) offer storage and basic functions, with larger crew quarters for standing/moving.In Summary for One Person:
You're likely looking at a dedicated space of at least 30 square meters for significant food and life support, or a smaller, integrated volume within a habitat for basic functions, emphasizing efficiency and multi-use areas
MARS GREENHOUSES: CONCEPTS AND CHALLENGES
Proceedings from a 1999 Workshop
#3 Re: Human missions » A City Rises on the Plain... » Today 15:31:20
tahanson43206 wrote:For SpaceNut ...
Nice image in https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 86#p236186
Please see if your AI Friend is capable of doing more than just offering hand waving and high level overviews.
We need specific equipment recommendations for Calliban's Dome.
GW Johnson is (currently) thinking about cooling air and removing water by creating an opening from the dome for passage of air to outside radiators. I am worried that precious thermal energy would be lost to the dome interior if that were done.
I think your illustration of a mechanism inside the dome has the opportunity to avoid loss of thermal energy to Mars.
Please see if your AI friend can recommend specific off-the-shelf products to handle the air inside Calliban's Dome.
Also... please consider going back to Calliban's original sketch of what the floor plan might look like. I think we've allowed ourselves to be distracted by the ideas of tiers of layers of housing. I know that Calliban introduced that idea, but I don't think we should give up on the Italian Plaza vision that Calliban showed us early on.
If we return to the Italian Plaza vision, then we are creating something that wealthy Martians can inhabit, and working Martians can visit for special occasions.
(th)
A each structure need room sizes and more to get near to the foot print of light and power requirement for the number of crew it is meant to sustain.
High level view is also needed for the crop growth until you define the limits of oxygen from the crops, the types of crops the foot print of the greenhouse size ect...
We know that outside conduction via a working fluid that does not freeze is the means for dome cooling but that still need a flow rate and exchange to get to the pump size and power levels.
#4 Re: Human missions » Humidity Moisture Habitat Air Management » Today 15:30:08
tahanson43206 wrote:For SpaceNut ...
Nice image in https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 86#p236186
Please see if your AI Friend is capable of doing more than just offering hand waving and high level overviews.
We need specific equipment recommendations for Calliban's Dome.
GW Johnson is (currently) thinking about cooling air and removing water by creating an opening from the dome for passage of air to outside radiators. I am worried that precious thermal energy would be lost to the dome interior if that were done.
I think your illustration of a mechanism inside the dome has the opportunity to avoid loss of thermal energy to Mars.
Please see if your AI friend can recommend specific off-the-shelf products to handle the air inside Calliban's Dome.
Also... please consider going back to Calliban's original sketch of what the floor plan might look like. I think we've allowed ourselves to be distracted by the ideas of tiers of layers of housing. I know that Calliban introduced that idea, but I don't think we should give up on the Italian Plaza vision that Calliban showed us early on.
If we return to the Italian Plaza vision, then we are creating something that wealthy Martians can inhabit, and working Martians can visit for special occasions.
(th)
A each structure need room sizes and more to get near to the foot print of light and power requirement for the number of crew it is meant to sustain.
High level view is also needed for the crop growth until you define the limits of oxygen from the crops, the types of crops the foot print of the greenhouse size ect...
We know that outside conduction via a working fluid that does not freeze is the means for dome cooling but that still need a flow rate and exchange to get to the pump size and power levels.
#5 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » Today 09:36:56
LEDs have a lense that gives a beam spread to hieght that the light will cover. So at 120m tall to 200 m diameter we have the mean angle that light will cover from a single source which will be huge in power level but we are not making an empty carvern.
When calculating the relationship between LED bulbs, the volume of a space (cubic meters), and the mounting height, you are primarily looking at how much light (lumens) is needed to fill a specific 3D volume effectively. 1. Calculating Volume in Cubic Meters (\(m^{3}\)) To find the volume of your room, multiply the length, width, and height in meters. Formula: \(\text{Volume}(m^{3})=\text{Length}(m)\times \text{Width}(m)\times \text{Height}(m)\).Example: A room that is 5m long, 4m wide, and 3m high has a volume of \(60m^{3}\). 2. Determining Light Requirements (Lumens) Lighting is typically calculated based on floor area (square meters), but for high ceilings, you must adjust for volume or height. Residential standard: Aim for roughly 300–500 lumens per square meter for bright areas like kitchens or offices.Height Adjustment: As the ceiling height increases, you need more lumens because light intensity decreases over distance. For ceilings over 3 meters (approx. 10 feet), it is recommended to increase your total lumen count by 25-30% for every additional meter of height to maintain the same brightness at floor level. 3. LED Wattage vs. Installation Height If you are using high-output LED bulbs (High Bay lights), the mounting height dictates the required wattage to ensure the light reaches the ground effectively: Installation Height Recommended LED WattageIdeal Environment0 – 3 meters (0-9 ft)60W (Standard/Low)Residential, Small Garages4 – 6 meters (13-20 ft)100W – 150WWorkshops, Low-rise Warehouses6 – 8 meters (20-26 ft)200W – 250WManufacturing Halls, Medium Warehouses8 – 12 meters (26-39 ft)300W – 400WLarge Logistics Centers12+ meters (39+ ft)500W+Stadiums, Hangars4. How Many Bulbs Do You Need? Once you have determined the total lumens required for your cubic space, divide that by the output of a single LED bulb. Formula: \(\frac{\text{Total\ Lumens\ Needed}}{\text{Lumens\ per\ Bulb}}=\text{Number\ of\ Bulbs}\).A standard 10W LED bulb typically produces 800–1,000 lumens.
Determining the output of an LED bulb relative to a room's volume (\(m^{3}\)) and height (\(m\)) involves calculating the total lumens required to achieve a specific light intensity (Lux). Core Calculation Formulas Total Lumens (lm): Multiply the room's surface area by the target Lux.\(\text{Lumens}=\text{Area\ }(m^{2})\times \text{Lux}\)Area (\(m^{2}\)): Derived from volume and height.\(\text{Area}=\text{Volume\ }(m^{3})\div \text{Height\ }(m)\)Target Lux Levels: Standard guidelines suggest:Ambient (Living areas): 100–300 Lux.Task (Kitchens/Offices): 300–500 Lux.Bright (Bathrooms/Workspaces): 700–800 Lux. BBCode Output for Forums/Calculators The following BBCode block presents these calculations in a structured format suitable for message boards: bbcode[center][size=4]LED Lighting Output Requirements[/size][/center]
Room Volume: {Volume} m³
Ceiling Height: {Height} m
Target Intensity: 300 Lux (Standard Task Lighting)
[hr]
Step 1: Calculate Floor Area
[indent]Area = Volume / Height[/indent]
[indent]{Volume} m³ / {Height} m = {Area} m²[/indent]Step 2: Total Lumens Required
[indent]Lumens = Area × Lux[/indent]
[indent]{Area} m² × 300 Lux = {Total_Lumens} lm[/indent]Step 3: Recommended Bulb Count (Based on 800lm LED)
[indent]Bulbs = Total Lumens / 800[/indent]
[indent]{Total_Lumens} / 800 = {Bulb_Count} Bulbs[/indent]Note: Higher ceilings (above 3m) may require 20-50% more lumens to account for light scattering before reaching the floor.
Height Adjustment Considerations Light Scattering: For every meter increase in height above standard levels (approx. 2.4m), light intensity drops. High ceilings may require additional lumens to ensure effective illumination at ground level.Mounting Height: A general rule for high-bay lighting is that a light mounted at 15 feet (4.5m) can effectively brighten about 12 feet (3.6m) of space.Logarithmic Scaling: Some advanced calculations use logarithmic formulas for "ceiling height adjustment" because the increase in required lumens is not linear as height grows
120/4.5 = will be the number of floors will give 26 possible that all have lessening diameter inside the dome.
Of course each floors diameter will not be to the wall of the dome as we would want space on the outside of the structured rooms to have extra open space to go outside with in the dome.
The diameters of each of the 26 floors in the parabolic dome range from 200.00 meters at the base to 39.22 meters at the top floor, as detailed below. Step 1: Define the parabolic equation and floor heights The dome is modeled as a paraboloid of revolution. With the base at \(y=0\) m and the vertex at the top, \(y=120\) m, the equation of the parabola can be defined as \(x^{2}=4p(y-120)\). The base radius is \(100\) m (half of the \(200\) m diameter), so we solve for \(4p\): \(100^{2}=4p(0-120)\)\(10000=-120(4p)\)\(4p=-\frac{10000}{120}=-\frac{250}{3}\)The equation is \(x^{2}=-\frac{250}{3}(y-120)\). The floor heights are evenly spaced by a distance of \(120\text{\ m}/26\approx 4.62\) m. Step 2: Calculate each floor's diameter The radius \(r\) at any given height \(y\) is \(x\), so \(r^{2}=-\frac{250}{3}(y-120)\), and the diameter \(D=2r=2\sqrt{-\frac{250}{3}(y-120)}\). The following table lists the height and
corresponding diameter for each floor: Floor Number Height (m)Diameter
Floor Number Height (m) Diameter (m)
1.00 0.00 200.00
2.00 4.62 196.12
3.00 9.23 192.15
4.00 13.85 188.11
5.00 18.46 183.97
6.00 23.08 179.74
7.00 27.69 175.41
8.00 32.31 170.97
9.00 36.92 166.41
10.00 41.54 161.72
11.00 46.15 156.89
12.00 50.77 151.91
13.00 55.38 146.76
14.00 60.00 141.42
15.00 64.62 135.87
16.00 69.23 130.09
17.00 73.85 124.03
18.00 78.46 117.67
19.00 83.08 110.94
20.00 87.69 103.77
21.00 92.31 96.08
22.00 96.92 87.71
23.00 101.54 78.45
24.00 106.15 67.94
25.00 110.77 55.47
26.00 115.38 39.22
To determine the diameter of each floor in a parabolic dome that is 120 meters tall with a 200-meter base diameter, we use the standard parabolic equation for a cross-section. Geometric Parameters Total Height (\(H\)): 120 mBase Diameter (\(D\)): 200 m (Base Radius \(R=100\) m)Number of Floors: 26Average Floor Height: ~4.615 m (assuming uniform distribution: \(120\text{\ m}/26\) floors) Parabolic Equation The radius \(r\) at any given height \(h\) from the ground for a downward-opening parabola is given by the formula:\(r=R\sqrt{1-\frac{h}{H}}\)The diameter at that height is simply \(2r\).
Floor Diameter Table (BBCode)
[table][tr][th]Floor[/th][th]Height (m)[/th][th]Diameter (m)[/th][/tr][tr][td]Ground (1)[/td][td]0.00[/td][td]200.00[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]4.62[/td][td]196.11[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]9.23[/td][td]192.15[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]13.85[/td][td]188.10[/td][/tr][tr][td]5[/td][td]18.46[/td][td]183.95[/td][/tr][tr][td]6[/td][td]23.08[/td][td]179.70[/td][/tr][tr][td]7[/td][td]27.69[/td][td]175.34[/td][/tr][tr][td]8[/td][td]32.31[/td][td]170.86[/td][/tr][tr][td]9[/td][td]36.92[/td][td]166.25[/td][/tr][tr][td]10[/td][td]41.54[/td][td]161.49[/td][/tr][tr][td]11[/td][td]46.15[/td][td]156.59[/td][/tr][tr][td]12[/td][td]50.77[/td][td]151.53[/td][/tr][tr][td]13[/td][td]55.38[/td][td]146.28[/td][/tr][tr][td]14[/td][td]60.00[/td][td]141.42[/td][/tr][tr][td]15[/td][td]64.62[/td][td]135.53[/td][/tr][tr][td]16[/td][td]69.23[/td][td]130.05[/td][/tr][tr][td]17[/td][td]73.85[/td][td]124.30[/td][/tr][tr][td]18[/td][td]78.46[/td][td]118.25[/td][/tr][tr][td]19[/td][td]83.08[/td][td]111.87[/td][/tr][tr][td]20[/td][td]87.69[/td][td]105.11[/td][/tr][tr][td]21[/td][td]92.31[/td][td]97.90[/td][/tr][tr][td]22[/td][td]96.92[/td][td]90.14[/td][/tr][tr][td]23[/td][td]101.54[/td][td]81.69[/td][/tr][tr][td]24[/td][td]106.15[/td][td]72.28[/td][/tr][tr][td]25[/td][td]110.77[/td][td]61.42[/td][/tr][tr][td]26[/td][td]115.38[/td][td]48.35[/td][/tr][/table]Usage Notes Floor 1 starts at ground level (0m height), representing the maximum 200m base.Floor Heights assume a standard vertical spacing of approximately 4.62 meters per floor, which is within the range for high-ceiling commercial or mixed-use structures.The top floor (26) is located at 115.38m, leaving approximately 4.62m of clearance to the 120m apex
#6 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » Today 08:59:58
The ISS is contained volume with known power levels.
The ISS uses advanced LED lighting, shifting from older systems, with power managed by the station's overall 128 kW solar-powered electrical system, meeting ASHRAE/IES standards for efficiency, offering adjustable levels (like 200-500 lux for general tasks) for various modules (labs, crew quarters), and employing smart controls for dimming/shutoff to conserve power, crucial for space operations.
Lighting System Types & Technology:
LED-Based: The ISS primarily uses Light-Emitting Diodes (LEDs) for efficiency, durability, and long life in space.
Fluorescent/Incandescent: Older modules may still have some fluorescent or incandescent fixtures, but LEDs are the standard for replacements and new installations.
Custom/NASA Standards: Lighting meets NASA's specific space-rated needs (vibration, radiation) rather than strict Earth-based codes, but aligns with efficiency goals of standards like ASHRAE/IES.Power Requirements:
Total Station Power: The ISS's entire electrical system generates up to ~128 kW of power from solar arrays, distributed to all systems,including lighting.
Lighting Power Density (LPD): While specific ISS LPD isn't published like Earth codes, it aims for low power, using LEDs to stay within efficient limits (e.g., <1 Watt/sq ft for some Earth applications).Adjustability: Lighting power varies; crew quarters might use 200-300 lux, while labs need more (400-500+ lux), all dimmable/controllable.
Illumination Levels (Lux/Foot-Candles):
General (Crew Quarters/Corridors): Around 200-300 lux (20-30 fc) on average, with dimming capability.Work Areas (Labs/Control Centers): Higher levels, often 400-500+ lux (40-50+ fc) for detailed tasks.
Emergency: Separate battery-powered emergency lights (like on Earth) ensure visibility for safety during power loss, meeting basic egress needs.
Key Factors:Power Conservation: Crucial due to limited energy generation; smart controls dim lights when not needed.
Human Factors: Adjustable lighting helps regulate circadian rhythms for long-duration missions.
Space Environment: Fixtures are rugged, often with specialized covers (like polarizing filters) to reduce glare in microgravity
The International Space Station (ISS) has a total pressurized volume of about 35,000 cubic feet (1,000 cubic meters), roughly the size of a large, six-bedroom house, with a smaller habitable volume (where people live and work) of around 13,700 cubic feet (388 cubic meters), accounting for equipment racks and structure.
Key Volume Figures:
Total Pressurized Volume: ~35,000 cubic feet / 1,000 cubic meters.
Habitable Volume: ~13,700 cubic feet / 388 cubic meters (the actual living/working space).
The internal volume of a parabolic dome with a 220m diameter and 120m height is approximately 2,280,796.27 \(m^{3}\).
The internal volume of the parabolic dome is approximately 80,600,000 cubic feet.
While we know the array collects 120 kw plus the issue is the light intensity and amounts are for each hour of use covering all power uses not just the lighting.
#7 Re: Human missions » Humidity Moisture Habitat Air Management » Today 08:24:20
Think about heat rises and so will the moisture as well for reduced gravity on mars. So circulating the heat is done with fans that are blowing down.
Dehumidification systems remove excess moisture from the air to improve comfort, health, and building integrity by preventing mold, allergens, and structural damage, using methods like refrigeration (cooling coils to condense water) or desiccants (absorbing moisture). These systems range from portable units for basements to whole-house integrated systems or large industrial setups, often connecting to HVAC or operating independently for precise humidity control (aiming for 40-60% RH).
Types of Systems
Refrigerant Dehumidifiers: Use a chilled coil to cool air below its dew point, condensing water into a collection pan or drain, similar to an air conditioner but focused on moisture removal.
Desiccant Dehumidifiers: Employ moisture-absorbing materials (desiccants) to pull water from the air, offering precise control in varied temperatures, ideal for industrial or low-humidity needs.
Whole-House Systems: Integrated with your HVAC, these handle humidity for the entire home, often using a dedicated dehumidifier to reduce the AC's load.
Portable Units: Standalone devices for specific rooms, basements, or crawl spaces.
Ventilation Preconditioning: Systems that dehumidify incoming outdoor air before it enters the building, reducing load on main systems.
Key Benefits
Health: Reduces mold, mildew, dust mites, and allergens, improving respiratory health.
Comfort: Eliminates that "sticky" feeling, making indoor air feel cooler.
Property Protection: Prevents warping, rot, musty odors, and pest issues in homes and structures.
HVAC Efficiency: Allows air conditioners to focus on temperature (sensible load) rather than moisture (latent load).
Common Applications
Residential: Basements, crawl spaces, whole homes, especially in tight, energy-efficient houses.
Commercial/Industrial: Warehouses, manufacturing, data centers, hospitals, pools, and ice rinks requiring specific low humidity levels
Energy Recovery for Dehumidification
Its not just about the water in the air as we want to reclaim it for re-use.
#8 Re: Human missions » Starship repurposed to make first habitat spaces » Yesterday 20:01:30
https://www.humanmars.net/2021/04/space … or-20.html
Digging a hole would allow for the crewed portion of the starship to be quickly covered for use,
Another it to just send a roll in a cargo ship to give a quick method to make a habitat.
zooming in on the floors for dimensions found that they are 2.5 m with the floor being 220 mm thick for the 6 floors indicated
plan is for just 20 to 40 crew personnel.
#9 Re: Human missions » Starship repurposed to make first habitat spaces » Yesterday 18:37:24
Images are from tank constructions 4mm thick sheet weighs approximately 31.4 kg/m²
We know that the metal is stainless steel 304L at 9 m diameter or circumference is approximately 28.27 meters.
Key Dimensions & Features:
Starship Upper Stage Length: Approximately 50 meters (165 ft).
Diameter: 9 meters (29.5 ft).
Total Starship (with Booster): Around 120-123 meters (397-403 ft) tall.
Pressurized Volume: Target of over 1000 cubic meters for crewed versions, more than the ISS's primary pressurized modules.
Levels: About six levels, including cargo, life support, gym, crew cabins, common area, and command deck.
SpaceX Starship uses 304L stainless steel, typically in large rolls or sheets for construction, with specific thicknesses around 4 mm (0.156 in), though thinner gauge sheets (like 0.8-1.2mm) are common for various finishes and sizes (e.g., 2000x1000mm, 2500x1250mm) from suppliers. While standard industrial sizes (4'x8', 4'x10') exist, Starship uses large, custom formats for its cylindrical sections, with some reports mentioning rolls over 72 inches wide.
Key Details:
Material: 304L Stainless Steel (low carbon version).
Thickness: Around 4 mm (0.156 inches) for main structure, but thinner for other parts.
Formats: Large sheets or rolls, not small standard sheets.
Standard Sheet Sizes (for general use): 4'x8', 4'x10', 5'x10' (and cut-to-size).
Specific SpaceX Use: Reports mention rolls 1828.8mm (72 inches) wide for building the rocket's body.
So, while standard sizes are common in the industry, Starship uses massive, specific sizes to form its huge cylindrical tanks and body sections.
#10 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members » Yesterday 16:02:55
#11 Re: Human missions » Humidity Moisture Habitat Air Management » Yesterday 16:00:56
That would be true but this is for inside the dome.
#12 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » Yesterday 15:57:26
The sun provides to earth surface a Solar Irradiance: Full, direct sunlight at Earth's surface on a clear day is approximately 1,000 watts of radiant power per square meter (W/m²), or about 127,000 lumens per square meter (lux). But we know ho to produce light that uses less wattage for the same lumen values.
No one within the dome is going to have all of the lighting on or at full intensity.
Illuminance Range and Calculation
Natural outdoor light levels (illuminance), measured in lux (lumens per square meter), vary dramatically by weather and time of day:
Overcast Day (midday): ~1,000 to 2,000 lux
Full Daylight (ambient, not direct sun): ~10,000 to 25,000 lux
Bright Direct Sunlight: ~100,000 to 120,000 lux
Of course the other error is the sun is over one's head not projected. Which does not multiply by the diameter of the dome as not all of the domes foot print is being illuminated.
For home incandescent bulbs, wattage directly relates to brightness (lumens):
a 40W bulb gives ~450lm,
60W ~800lm,
75W ~1100lm,
and 100W ~1500-1600lm, with lumens being the standard measure for light output, not watts, which just measure energy use.
Here's a common conversion chart for traditional incandescent:
40 Watts: ~450-500 lumens
60 Watts: ~800-900 lumens
75 Watts: ~1100-1125 lumens
100 Watts: ~1500-1600 lumens
Key takeaway: Look for lumens (lm) on new bulb packaging to find the brightness you want, as wattage is less important for energy-efficient bulbs like LEDs.
ypical room lumen levels vary by function, with relaxing spaces like bedrooms needing 1,000-4,000 total lumens (or 10-20 lumens/sq. ft.) for ambiance, while task-oriented areas like kitchens and bathrooms require much brighter light, often 5,000-10,000+ lumens (or 50-100 lumens/sq. ft.) for cooking and grooming, achieved through layered lighting with dimmers for flexibility.
General Room Lumen Ranges (Total for Room)
Living Room/Lounge: 1,500 – 3,000+ lumens (for relaxed atmosphere)
Bedroom: 1,000 – 4,000 lumens (cozy feel, use dimmers)
Kitchen: 5,000 – 10,000 lumens (for tasks)
Bathroom: 4,000 – 8,000 lumens (for grooming/tasks)
Home Office: 3,000 – 6,000 lumens (needs focus)
Dining Room: 3,000 – 6,000 lumens (adjustable for meals)
Hallways/Stairs: 500 – 3,000 lumens (general navigation)
How to Estimate Your Needs (Lumens per Square Foot)
Measure your room to get the square footage (length x width).
Multiply by the lumens/sq. ft. recommendation:
Living/Bedroom: 10-20 lumens/sq. ft.
Kitchen/Bathroom/Office (Task Areas): 50-100 lumens/sq. ft.Example: A 100 sq. ft. living room needs 1,000-2,000 lumens (100 x 10-20).
Tips for Brightness
Layer Lighting: Use a mix of overhead, table, and floor lamps for depth.
Use Dimmers: Essential for creating different moods and saving energy.
Task Lighting: Add specific bright lights (like under-cabinet LEDs) for cooking or reading
#13 Re: Human missions » Why Artemis is “better” than Apollo. » Yesterday 15:43:06
With similarities to the use of the shuttle ET for humans to make use of.
A Common Habitat Deep Space Exploration Vehicle for Transit and Orbital Operations
#14 Human missions » Starship repurposed to make first habitat spaces » Yesterday 15:30:19
- SpaceNut
- Replies: 3
Trying to leverage what we have on mars once crews and cargo start landing on its surface.
People on Mars would convert a Starship into a permanent habitat using a combination of heavy-duty robotic equipment and pre-positioned systems to unload or reposition habitat modules from the vertical rocket. SpaceX and NASA are considering several concepts, but there is no single finalized plan.
Key potential methods include:
Jib Cranes and Robotics:
A modified cargo Starship could use deployable jib cranes to lift habitat modules out of the payload bay, rotate them to a horizontal position, and lower them to the ground. Robotic systems, such as an ATHLETE rover with digging tools, could assist in moving the habitat modules and burying them in regolith for radiation protection.Integrated Systems:
The habitat modules would be pre-packed inside the Starship before launch. Once on Mars, internal rail and cable systems could facilitate moving individual modules toward a large side hatch for subsequent lowering to the surface.Tipping the Starship:
Another concept is to land the Starship and then tip the entire structure onto its side to provide a large, easily accessible ground-level habitat space.Landing in a Trench:
The Starship could be designed to land in a prepared trench to align its docking ports with other surface elements, or the habitat could be placed in a trench after offloading.Building Around the Ship:
The simplest, though less efficient, method is to use the landed Starship as a de facto habitat and build additional modules or cover the existing structure with Martian soil (regolith) for radiation shielding. Ultimately, these operations would likely rely on un-crewed cargo missions preceding the first human landing to deliver the necessary offloading machinery, power systems, and basic infrastructure. This ensures the crew's safety and provides a ready habitat upon arrival
We know the shell materials can be welded once pulled down to the ground in order to make what we need to get started.
Options for Offloading a 90-Ton Common Habitat from its Lander on the Surface of Mars
NASA concepts for using Starship to deliver a 90-ton habitat on the Martian surface
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20220010430
For welding SpaceX Starship's 304 stainless steel, the key equipment involves advanced, high-speed robotic laser welding machines for precise, fast, single-pass welds, replacing slower TIG/MIG methods, though standard TIG/MIG welders (like inverter-based Synergic ARC 304) with appropriate filler (ER308L) and argon gas are used for other stainless work. SpaceX uses specialized systems for deep penetration and heat conduction to minimize warping, enabling lighter, stronger structures quickly.
Key Equipment & Techniques for Starship (304 SS)
Robotic Laser Welding: The primary method for Starship rings, offering speed, precision, and minimal heat distortion, allowing thinner sheets.
Heat Conduction Welding: For thin sheets, creating clean welds with little warping.
Deep Penetration (Keyhole) Welding: For thicker sections, creating deep, strong single-pass welds.
TIG/MIG Welders (for general use/prototypes):
Inverter-based MIG/MAG: Machines like the Synergic ARC 304 offer advanced features, high duty cycles, and robust wire feeds.
TIG (GTAW): Known for beautiful, high-quality welds, requiring more skill.
Consumables:
Filler Wire: ER308L is standard for 304 stainless steel.
Shielding Gas: Argon-rich gases are essential for stainless steel welding.
Why the Shift to Laser Welding?
Efficiency: Dramatically speeds up assembly, reducing build times from months to weeks.
Weight Reduction: Enables use of thinner steel by creating stronger, consistent welds, cutting overall mass.
Quality: More precise, consistent welds with less warping than traditional methods.
General Stainless Steel Welding Tips
Cleanliness: Always start with clean stainless steel.
Filler: Use the correct filler (ER308L for 304).
Gas: Use appropriate argon mix.
Duty Cycle: Choose a machine with a high duty cycle for continuous work
#15 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » Yesterday 15:06:19
Light that is incandescent or mercury vapor will do so but Low powered LED is not that. Heat is the result of power input that must be lowered to match the device input. The electronic regulation to lower the voltage is where the heat is generated from.
#16 Re: Human missions » A City Rises on the Plain... » Yesterday 14:50:01
I am reminded of the My Hacienda On Mars plot content and desire to be self sufficiency.
#17 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » Yesterday 12:43:01
remembering all of the posts from the past is getting harder with age but here it is.
Roll out mirror surface to peel and still on the inside of the dome as deswired.
Hmm. Yes. If only I had a job. Visions of tearing down my garage, building a brand new one. I could give details, but I found this at Amazon. Amazon Canada has free shipping within Canada. Reflective sticker, self-adhesive, 0.1cm thick (1mm), flexable. 50cm x 100cm, CDN$ 12.64 + tax. If the back wall is 18' high x 15' wide, that's 548.64 cm high x 457.2 cm wide, so make the reflective area 550cm x 450cm. That would require 5.5 x 9 rolls = 49.5 rolls. Purchased in whole rolls so 50 rolls. That's $632 + tax. A slightly larger area, but still expensive. And outside garage wall facing the Walipini could get more mirror covering. More money.
(Ps. I dug the URL of the image out of source code for their website. However, clicking on the image takes you to their store, to buy this item. They shouldn't be upset by free advertising.)
::Edit:: Hah! Even better. You suggested Mylar; I did a search and found this. One roll would do, CDN$ 49.99 + tax. Free shipping within Canada. Intended to reflect light for agriculture.
Growneer 4 x 100FT 2 Mil Horticulture Mylar Reflective Film Roll Highly Reflective Covering Sheets For Greenhouse Increasing Temperature Light
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51+gzsvG8DL._AA160_.jpg
Not all areas with in the dome has high intensity light and while in you residential area one will make use of motion sensor' d units.
![Tzumi-Under-Cabinet-LED-Lights-3-Pack-USB-Rechargeable_62d1a2e8-61f5-4cf6-9387-9425181c77f6.323c7c37badeaf2ab60a6ea35851e21c.jpeg?odnHeight=573&odnWidth=573&odnBg=FFFFFF]](https://i5.walmartimages.com/seo/Tzumi-Under-Cabinet-LED-Lights-3-Pack-USB-Rechargeable_62d1a2e8-61f5-4cf6-9387-9425181c77f6.323c7c37badeaf2ab60a6ea35851e21c.jpeg?odnHeight=573&odnWidth=573&odnBg=FFFFFF])
#19 Re: Meta New Mars » GW Johnson Postings and @Exrocketman1 YouTube videos » 2025-12-12 18:42:25
GW's opinion:
[im*g]htt*ps://new*mars.com/php*BB3/down*load/fi*le.ph*p?id=1*32[/im*g]
I used the * to make the string show as text. Just remove them to make the display of the image display.
#20 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Brick on Mars » 2025-12-12 18:38:49
This might work for cieling construction for each floor or tier
If the top of the arch is near 4 m with floor joined to each then we can have some where near 26 floors within the dome.
Space requirement to each crew must leave open space for the gardens that will create food and oxygen.
#21 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members » 2025-12-12 18:03:41
GW nice Stages of Mars chart missions type and natural progression.
That makes OldFarts topic an Experimentation style mission.
#22 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Brick on Mars » 2025-12-12 15:05:27
Another reference topic for construction materials for floors within the structure.
#23 Re: Human missions » Humidity Moisture Habitat Air Management » 2025-12-12 14:58:00
I believe we can make use of the items in this topic Sun + Air = water
The panel would be altered for the solar as all it is doing is supplying power to the system to which we can get power from another source within the dome.
The part we care about is on the cart
Stuff we need is in the box beneath the solar panel.
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/__opt__aboutcom__coeus__resources__content_migration__treehugger__images__2017__11__zero-mass-water-source-3322a05d2c624fb3a3ef1212b52d1ce2.jpg)
#24 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members » 2025-12-11 19:30:40
making the essentials for life on Mars: fuel, oxygen, and water
Construction Materials on Mars: ISRU
Generating Energy on Mars: ISRU
Another reference topic for construction materials for floors within the structure.
#25 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Boring plus Drilling tech, 3D printing insitu and Tunneling equipment » 2025-12-11 19:13:01
Everything that we know about mars regolith has been from small sample sizes but images tell us that we are going to need lots of equipment to make use of mars to build and survive with insitu material use.
This is JSC Mars-1 Martian Soil Simulant
Chemical composition mineralogical standard analog based on data collected from the Mars Science Laboratory Curiosity rover. MGS-1 is made by sourcing a spectrum of terrestrial minerals, then mixed together in specific proportions to generally replicate the Martian surface. This is in contrast to previous Mars simulants that were typically sourced from a single terrestrial deposit (basalt or palagonite) fraction of less than 1 millimeter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_regolith_simulant
After milling to reduce its particle size, JSC Mars-1A can geopolymerize in alkaline solutions forming a solid material. Tests show that the maximum compressive and flexural strength of the 'martian' geopolymer is comparable to that of common clay bricks.
other simulant attempts https://www.themartiangarden.com/mars-simulant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_regolith
here is the sand with rocks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_r … agment.jpg
So lots of preperation of the soil is needed to make use of it in milling it to size, seperating the mineral content and making it perchlorate free.
To build with Mars regolith, milling equipment (like vibratory/planetary ball mills) reduces particle size, while separation methods use techniques like laser sintering, cold sintering (CSP), polymer binders, or microwave systems to bind or melt regolith into structures, often requiring 3D printers for shaping, aiming for materials like bricks, shielding, or metal parts from extracted elements like iron/titanium. Key processes involve size reduction (milling) and consolidation (sintering/binding) to create usable materials like "Mars concrete" or fused components, with focus on robotic, energy-efficient systems.
Milling Equipment & Processes
Ball Milling (Planetary/Vibratory): Used to reduce particle size (PSD) of raw regolith simulant, with planetary mills being faster but roller banks better for large slurries.
Sieving: Separates milled particles into specific size ranges (e.g., 60-mesh).
Separation & Consolidation Technologies
Laser Sintering: Uses high-power lasers to melt and fuse regolith into solid layers, creating paving or structural elements.
Cold Sintering (CSP): Binds regolith with water/alkaline solutions at low temperatures (under 250°C) and pressure, forming strong bricks or blocks.
Polymer Binders: Mixes regolith with polymers (made from Martian CO2/water) for 3D printing concrete-like materials.
Microwave/Solar Sintering: Alternative methods to use focused energy for hardening regolith.
Metal Extraction: Processes like carbonyl metallurgy or vapor deposition extract iron and other metals for 3D printing steel parts.
Additive Manufacturing & End Products
3D Printing (Extrusion/Powder Bed): Deposits processed regolith/binders layer-by-layer, building structures like domes, habitats, tools, or rebar.
Products: Sintered bricks, concrete-like blocks, radiation shielding, metal components (rebar, gears, tools), and coatings.
Key Considerations
In-Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU): The core principle, maximizing use of Martian soil.
Energy Efficiency: Focus on low-energy methods like cold sintering.
Robotics: Automation is crucial for mining, milling, and construction
Another reference topic for construction materials for floors within the structure or ceilings