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#2 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Boring plus Drilling tech, 3D printing insitu and Tunneling equipment » Yesterday 19:13:01

Everything that we know about mars regolith has been from small sample sizes but images tell us that we are going to need lots of equipment to make use of mars to build and survive with insitu material use.

Construction with Regolith

This is JSC Mars-1 Martian Soil Simulant

Chemical composition mineralogical standard analog based on data collected from the Mars Science Laboratory Curiosity rover. MGS-1 is made by sourcing a spectrum of terrestrial minerals, then mixed together in specific proportions to generally replicate the Martian surface. This is in contrast to previous Mars simulants that were typically sourced from a single terrestrial deposit (basalt or palagonite) fraction of less than 1 millimeter

MGS-1_w_gram_1800x1800.png?v=1732134911

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_regolith_simulant

After milling to reduce its particle size, JSC Mars-1A can geopolymerize in alkaline solutions forming a solid material. Tests show that the maximum compressive and flexural strength of the 'martian' geopolymer is comparable to that of common clay bricks.

other simulant attempts https://www.themartiangarden.com/mars-simulant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_regolith

here is the sand with rocks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_r … agment.jpg

T3JAXG3M77DIW2OQ7V7V2T25IQ.jpg

So lots of preperation of the soil is needed to make use of it in milling it to size, seperating the mineral content and making it perchlorate free.

To build with Mars regolith, milling equipment (like vibratory/planetary ball mills) reduces particle size, while separation methods use techniques like laser sintering, cold sintering (CSP), polymer binders, or microwave systems to bind or melt regolith into structures, often requiring 3D printers for shaping, aiming for materials like bricks, shielding, or metal parts from extracted elements like iron/titanium. Key processes involve size reduction (milling) and consolidation (sintering/binding) to create usable materials like "Mars concrete" or fused components, with focus on robotic, energy-efficient systems.
Milling Equipment & Processes
Ball Milling (Planetary/Vibratory): Used to reduce particle size (PSD) of raw regolith simulant, with planetary mills being faster but roller banks better for large slurries.
Sieving: Separates milled particles into specific size ranges (e.g., 60-mesh).
Separation & Consolidation Technologies
Laser Sintering: Uses high-power lasers to melt and fuse regolith into solid layers, creating paving or structural elements.
Cold Sintering (CSP): Binds regolith with water/alkaline solutions at low temperatures (under 250°C) and pressure, forming strong bricks or blocks.
Polymer Binders: Mixes regolith with polymers (made from Martian CO2/water) for 3D printing concrete-like materials.
Microwave/Solar Sintering: Alternative methods to use focused energy for hardening regolith.
Metal Extraction: Processes like carbonyl metallurgy or vapor deposition extract iron and other metals for 3D printing steel parts.
Additive Manufacturing & End Products
3D Printing (Extrusion/Powder Bed): Deposits processed regolith/binders layer-by-layer, building structures like domes, habitats, tools, or rebar.
Products: Sintered bricks, concrete-like blocks, radiation shielding, metal components (rebar, gears, tools), and coatings.
Key Considerations
In-Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU): The core principle, maximizing use of Martian soil.
Energy Efficiency: Focus on low-energy methods like cold sintering.
Robotics: Automation is crucial for mining, milling, and construction

#3 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Brick on Mars » Yesterday 19:04:24

Construction with Regolith

This is JSC Mars-1 Martian Soil Simulant

Chemical composition mineralogical standard analog based on data collected from the Mars Science Laboratory Curiosity rover. MGS-1 is made by sourcing a spectrum of terrestrial minerals, then mixed together in specific proportions to generally replicate the Martian surface. This is in contrast to previous Mars simulants that were typically sourced from a single terrestrial deposit (basalt or palagonite) fraction of less than 1 millimeter

MGS-1_w_gram_1800x1800.png?v=1732134911

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_regolith_simulant

After milling to reduce its particle size, JSC Mars-1A can geopolymerize in alkaline solutions forming a solid material. Tests show that the maximum compressive and flexural strength of the 'martian' geopolymer is comparable to that of common clay bricks.

other simulant attempts https://www.themartiangarden.com/mars-simulant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_regolith

here is the sand with rocks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_r … agment.jpg

T3JAXG3M77DIW2OQ7V7V2T25IQ.jpg

So lots of preperation of the soil is needed to make use of it in milling it to size, seperating the mineral content and making it perchlorate free.

To build with Mars regolith, milling equipment (like vibratory/planetary ball mills) reduces particle size, while separation methods use techniques like laser sintering, cold sintering (CSP), polymer binders, or microwave systems to bind or melt regolith into structures, often requiring 3D printers for shaping, aiming for materials like bricks, shielding, or metal parts from extracted elements like iron/titanium. Key processes involve size reduction (milling) and consolidation (sintering/binding) to create usable materials like "Mars concrete" or fused components, with focus on robotic, energy-efficient systems.
Milling Equipment & Processes
Ball Milling (Planetary/Vibratory): Used to reduce particle size (PSD) of raw regolith simulant, with planetary mills being faster but roller banks better for large slurries.
Sieving: Separates milled particles into specific size ranges (e.g., 60-mesh).
Separation & Consolidation Technologies
Laser Sintering: Uses high-power lasers to melt and fuse regolith into solid layers, creating paving or structural elements.
Cold Sintering (CSP): Binds regolith with water/alkaline solutions at low temperatures (under 250°C) and pressure, forming strong bricks or blocks.
Polymer Binders: Mixes regolith with polymers (made from Martian CO2/water) for 3D printing concrete-like materials.
Microwave/Solar Sintering: Alternative methods to use focused energy for hardening regolith.
Metal Extraction: Processes like carbonyl metallurgy or vapor deposition extract iron and other metals for 3D printing steel parts.
Additive Manufacturing & End Products
3D Printing (Extrusion/Powder Bed): Deposits processed regolith/binders layer-by-layer, building structures like domes, habitats, tools, or rebar.
Products: Sintered bricks, concrete-like blocks, radiation shielding, metal components (rebar, gears, tools), and coatings.
Key Considerations
In-Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU): The core principle, maximizing use of Martian soil.
Energy Efficiency: Focus on low-energy methods like cold sintering.
Robotics: Automation is crucial for mining, milling, and construction

#4 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Brick on Mars » Yesterday 16:03:15

The issue I see is the simulant does notlook anything like the regolith surface of mars images which the rovers have broadcasted.

How to make metals from Martian dirt

AA1LeiSU.img?w=768&h=432&m=6

The idea of building settlements on Mars is a popular goal of billionaires, space agencies and interplanetary enthusiasts.
But construction demands materials, and we can't ship it all from Earth: it cost US$243 million just to send NASA's one ton Perseverance Rover to the Red Planet.

Unless we're building a settlement for ants, we'll need much, much more stuff. So how do we get it there?

CSIRO Postdoctoral Fellow and Swinburne alum Dr. Deddy Nababan has been pondering this question for years. His answer lies in the Martian dirt, known as regolith.

AA1LeiT2.img?w=768&h=432&m=6

Building an off-world foundry
As it turns out, Mars has all the ingredients needed to make native metals. This includes iron-rich oxides in regolith and carbon from its thin atmosphere, which act as a reducing agent.

Swinburne University of Technology astrometallurgist, Professor Akbar Rhamdhani, is working with Dr. Nababan to test this process with regolith simulant—an artificial recreation of the stuff found on Mars. The work was published in two papers in the journal Acta Astronautica.

https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retriev … 6525002814

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … via%3Dihub

"We picked a simulant with very similar properties to that found at Gale Crater on Mars and processed them on Earth with simulated Mars conditions to give us a good idea of how the process would perform off-world," he said.

The simulant is placed inside a chamber at Mars surface pressure and heated at increasing temperatures. The experiments showed pure iron metal formation around 1,000°C, with liquid iron-silicon alloys produced around 1400°C.

"At high enough temperatures, all of the metals coalesced into one large droplet. This could then be separated from liquid slag the same way it is on Earth," Professor Rhamdhani said.

Along with Dr. Nababan, Prof Rhamdhani is collaborating with CSIRO's Dr. Mark Pownceby to further advance the process. They're particularly focused on making metals with zero waste, where the byproducts of the process are used to make useful items.

If you can't ship it, make it
ISRU is a growing area of space science because in rocket launches, every kilogram counts. While the cost of launches is going down, the demands of human exploration are immense.

But huge developments are already happening, including the first demonstration of ISRU off-world: The MOXIE experiment onboard the Mars Perseverance rover produced breathable oxygen using only the carbon dioxide in the planet's atmosphere.

Metal production is the next giant leap. Professor Rhamdhani hopes Mars-made alloys could be used as shells for housing or research facilities, and in machinery for excavation.

"There are certainly challenges. We need to better understand how these alloys would perform over time, and of course whether this process can be recreated on the real Martian surface," he said.

But in the meantime, Swinburne and its partners are doubling down. Professor Rhamdhani together with Dr. Matt Shaw and Dr. Deddy Nababan from CSIRO recently delivered a four-day joint Swinburne-CSIRO bespoke workshop on astrometallurgy in South Korea, and the feedback was promising.

"We're starting to see increased interest in this field globally as the world gets serious about Mars exploration," he said.

"To make it happen, we're going to need experts from many fields—mining, engineering, geology, and much more."

For Dr. Nababan, the benefits go beyond exploration. He hopes their research will also drive more efficient metallurgy on Earth.

"By doing this, I wish that I can help the development of space exploration, and at the end it will bring good to human life here on Earth."

https://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.actaastro.2025.05.005

https://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.actaastro.2025.04.050

#5 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Companion fo Mars Expedition Number One; 17 crew members » Yesterday 16:00:42

Science-driven roadmap for human Mars missions revealed

AA1S4cV8.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

Why risk billions and decades of effort to send humans to Mars? For leading scientists, the answer is clear: the chance to ascertain whether life ever existed beyond Earth. This guiding purpose underpins the newly released “A Science Strategy for the Human Exploration of Mars,” a comprehensive, 240‑page report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. Co‑chaired by Dava Newman of MIT and Linda T. Elkins‑Tanton of the University of California, Berkeley, the document ranks the most critical scientific objectives for the first crewed missions and addresses the engineering realities that will shape them.

AA1S4B9R.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

1. The Search for Life as the Prime Directive

Its highest priority is to search for signs of life that could have existed, prebiotic chemistry, or conditions that are habitable, but only within a well-defined area of exploration. In other words, "We're looking for life on Mars," Newman said. "The answer to the question 'are we alone' is always going to be 'maybe,' unless it becomes yes." This will drive landing site selection toward geologically diverse areas with potential biosignatures, such as ancient lava flows or near‑surface glacial ice.

AA1S4w2N.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

2. Eleven Interconnected Science Goals

In addition to the detection of life, it emphasizes objectives such as characterizing an ancient and present water and CO₂ cycle, mapping the geological record of Mars, studying the dynamics of dust storms, and understanding radiation exposure. Other high-priority objectives involve crew health, microbial stability, and what Mars does physiologically to plants and animals. Each objective is linked to certain measurements, sampling strategies, and environmental monitoring during surface operations.

AA1S4B9W.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

3. Architecture of Mission Campaign

It assessed four consecutive mission campaigns: The top-ranked includes a human landing of 30 sols, an unmanned delivery of cargo, and a second crewed mission of 300 sols in the same 100-kilometer-wide zone of exploration. The resources will be further focused to maximize scientific return while incorporating advanced robotics for "human-agent teaming" to expand reach and efficiency.

AA1S4hKD.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

4. Planetary Protection Issues

Most challenging is the problem of protecting Mars from Earth microbes and Earth from possible Martian organisms. The current COSPAR guidelines preclude crewed landings in areas known to have liquid water, but these are precisely the places most likely to be targets for life detection. NASA is developing policies in concert with international partners that define zones for human access while setting aside “pristine” regions. Indeed, the report concludes: “NASA should continue to collaborate on the evolution of planetary protection guidelines, with the goal of enabling human explorers to perform research in regions that could possibly support, or even harbor, life.”

AA1S4p7Y.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

5. In‑Situ Resource Utilization for Propellant and Habitats

The capability to produce oxygen and fuel on the planet would radically lower mission mass in low Earth orbit. Solid oxide electrolysis of Martian CO₂ already demonstrated by the MOXIE technology demonstrator is a relatively simple task: a unit on the Martian surface ingests atmospheric CO₂, turns on, and releases oxygen. This is a radical contrast with lunar ISRU, which requires complex mining and processing of regolith material. Leverage is extreme: ascent oxygen replacement for a mission to Mars might save 240 to 300 tons in LEO per launch.

AA1S4hKI.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

6. Radiation Hazards and Shielding Solutions

But Mars does not have a shielding protective magnetic field or a thick atmosphere to block most of the dangerous cosmic rays. Research has shown that composite materials-such as selected plastics, rubber, synthetic fibers, and Martian regolith-will be effective in the attenuation of radiation. Water is particularly effective because of its high hydrogen content, while recent innovations involving 3D‑printed hydrogels achieve equal distribution without the risk of leakage. Both could be incorporated into habitats and spacesuits by combining shielding with water storage.

AA1S4u76.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

7. Human Health in the Martian Environment

Longitudinal studies are emphasized on crew physiological, cognitive, and emotional health under conditions of Mars: Countermeasure Validation-Radiation, Isolation, Altered Gravity, and Dust. Electrostatically charged dust abounds and pervades systems and lungs; better understanding of its impact is central to production hardware lifetime and human health.

AA1S4Ba5.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

8. Integration of Biological Studies

Missions to Mars will study how the environment affects reproduction and the functioning of the genome in model plants and animals, and how intact ecosystems respond over multiple generations. Such research underpins closed-loop life-supporting systems that are requisite to permanent human settlements that follow.

AA1S4Ba7.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

9. Robotics and Human‑Agent Teaming

Advanced autonomous systems will supplement human crews by performing reconnaissance, sampling, and drilling. The report considers both humanoid and non‑humanoid agents, designed according to mission demands, but with early definition of scientific objectives to control technological developments.

AA1S4yEh.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

10. Landing Site Criteria and Pre‑Mission Reconnaissance

Sites need to balance scientific potential with engineering feasibility: accessible ice deposits, varied geology, manageable terrain for rovers and deployment of habitat. Pre‑mission robotic surveys will map radiation levels, dust activity and possible biosignature locales that inform final site selection.

AA1S4mDS.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg

11. Policy and Programmatic Context

This roadmap aligns with the strategy of NASA's Moon to Mars program to utilize lunar missions to test technologies and operational concepts. Of course, political will and consistent funding remain a pre-requisite; as Elkins‑Tanton noted, "We've been on Mars for 50 years. With humans there, we have a huge opportunity."

In integrating science priorities with engineering realities-from planetary protection protocols through to ISRU and radiation shielding-it builds a vision for Mars exploration that is aspirational and anchored in technical detail

#6 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Ferris Wheel in Space as Orbiting Hotel » Yesterday 15:45:34

The world’s first space hotel is set to launch in 2027

AA1RWFch.img?w=768&h=402&m=6

For decades, the idea of checking into a hotel among the stars has been confined to the realm of science fiction, but that is about to change: the world’s first true orbital resort is now set to launch in 2027. This groundbreaking facility promises to redefine luxury tourism, offering amenities far beyond what one would expect from a mere space station; guests will be able to enjoy fine dining restaurants, fully-stocked bars, a gym, a concert hall, and even a cinema, all while orbiting the planet. But while the opening year is confirmed, the question remains: How exactly will this colossal structure generate gravity for its guests, and what astronomical price tag will come with a room key to the cosmos?

How vacationing in space will become a reality
The era of space tourism is on the horizon, and it’s set to reach new heights in 2027 with the launch of Voyager Station, the world’s first hotel in orbit, developed by Above: Space Development Corporation (formerly Orbital Assembly Corporation). This state-of-the-art luxury resort will circle the Earth while providing artificial gravity, accommodating up to 280 guests and 112 crew members at a time.

The station’s innovative design draws inspiration from decades of aerospace research, including the rotating wheel concept originally envisioned by Wernher von Braun. By spinning at roughly 1.5 rotations per minute, Voyager Station will initially replicate the Moon’s gravity and can later be adjusted to mimic conditions on Mars or even Earth, ensuring a comfortable stay for visitors.

Launching from Kennedy Space Center, Voyager Station promises unforgettable experiences above the planet. Upon arrival, travelers dock at a central zero-gravity hub before moving via pressurized elevators to the outer modules, where artificial gravity creates a familiar, Earth-like environment.

What guests can expect aboard Voyager Station
Voyager Station is designed as a vast rotating ring, consisting of 24 specialized modules and spanning approximately 125,000 square feet. Each module serves a distinct purpose, creating a seamless blend of luxury, entertainment, and innovation for guests in orbit. Visitors can enjoy gourmet meals and drinks at the onboard restaurant and bar, attend live musical performances in a concert hall, and stay active in a gym that creatively takes advantage of low gravity. A cinema provides both classic films and exclusive space-themed content, while observation decks offer breathtaking panoramic views of Earth.

Guests will move between modules through pressurized transfer shafts, ensuring safety and comfort throughout the station. Before their journey, all travelers undergo comprehensive training to familiarize themselves with zero-gravity movement, the use of space equipment, and emergency procedures. Voyager Station itself is equipped with advanced life support systems and emergency protocols, giving visitors peace of mind as they experience the wonders of space. The result is a meticulously planned, immersive adventure that transforms the idea of a vacation into a truly out-of-this-world experience.

The price of staying in space
For now, space travel remains the domain of the ultra-wealthy — a single trip can cost tens of millions. One early example is Oliver Daemen, a Dutch teenager who became the youngest person to travel to space when he paid $28 million for a brief flight with Blue Origin, the aerospace company founded by Jeff Bezos that specializes in suborbital and orbital space tourism. But the team behind Voyager Station aims to change that. Their vision is to make space vacations more comparable in price to luxury cruises on Earth. According to Tim Alatorre, co-founder, COO, and chair of the board at Above Space, the station itself is relatively affordable to construct; the primary expense lies in reaching orbit.

Alatorre notes that advances by companies like SpaceX could soon dramatically reduce launch costs, bringing orbital stays within reach for a wider audience within the next decade. Experts say this initiative represents a historic turning point, because for the first time, everyday people, not just trained astronauts, will be able to live, dine, and exercise in orbit.

How commercial space is heating up
Voyager Station isn’t venturing into uncharted territory alone. Other companies are making strides in commercial space as well. Axiom Space, in partnership with NASA, is developing a commercial module on the International Space Station that will eventually evolve into an independent platform. Meanwhile, Blue Origin and Sierra Space are collaborating on Orbital Reef, a new commercial space station.

What sets Voyager Station apart, however, is its singular focus on tourism. Designed with entertainment, leisure, and hospitality at its core, it promises an experience unlike any other in orbit. To prepare for the full-scale station, Above Space will test smaller prototypes — the Gravity Ring and Pioneer Stations — by 2025, refining the technology and ensuring a seamless experience for future guests.

Beyond offering an unforgettable vacation, Voyager Station opens the door to a host of other opportunities. The orbiting resort will support scientific research, educational programs, entertainment ventures, and entirely new ways of working in space, ushering in a bold new era of human activity above Earth. With tourism at the forefront, the station represents a major leap toward making space not just a destination, but a thriving, multifaceted environment for exploration, learning, and leisure.

#7 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » Yesterday 09:06:48

The more we NewMars members toss posts back and forth, the more I'm getting the impression a mixture of lighting solutions may turn out to be best.  We want the interior to re pleasing for humans to enjoy, so the sky scape of light blue LED panels that can be programmed to appear white to simulate clouds seems attractive, but your most recent conversation with your AI friend about grow lights reminds us all that lighting for plants might be best arranged as arrays suspended the ideal distance above the plants.  if this were done with skill, it might turn out the interior view seen by humans would be pleasing due to the mixture of colors including light reflected from leaves.

In other words, it might NOT be necessary to create a Sun's equivalent illumination with "sky" panels, because the grow lights could be closer to the intended recipient, while the sky lights provide a level of illumination and combinations of spectra that humans would enjoy, at less energy cost.

Day light recreation of how we precieve night and day with in the large structure.

peak-sun-hours-updated.jpg

a slow rotating light support system that shines up towards the dome apex.

to do seasons the angle would be reduced

SunPathPlanView.gif

#8 Re: Human missions » Humidity Moisture Habitat Air Management » Yesterday 08:53:50

Vents and intakes with fans and lots of sensor are used in both submarines and on the ISS for the cleansing of air plus more.

Submarine air quality management is crucial for crew health in confined spaces, using sophisticated HVAC systems with HEPA/carbon filters, electrostatic precipitators, and CO2 scrubbers (soda lime/regenerative) to remove particulates, odors, and gases like carbon monoxide (CO) and hydrogen (H2). Key processes include oxygen generation (electrolysis), contaminant removal (catalytic burners, filters), constant monitoring (CAMS, NASA tech, portable detectors for O2, CO2, CO, etc.), and strict exposure limits (EEGLs/CEGLs) set by bodies like the National Academies, balancing life support with equipment needs.
Key Systems & Methods
Air Circulation & Filtration: Recirculated air passes through fans, HEPA filters for particles, activated carbon for odors/VOCs, and electrostatic precipitators.
CO2 Removal: Lithium hydroxide (soda lime) or regenerative systems scrub exhaled CO2.
Oxygen Generation: Electrolysis of water (H2O from seawater) produces oxygen (O2); hydrogen (H2) is vented.
Contaminant Control:
CO/H2 Burners: Catalytic oxidizers (using Hapcalite) convert CO and H2 into CO2 and water.
Restricted Items List: Limiting volatile chemicals to reduce atmospheric buildup.
Monitoring & Control
Central Atmospheric Monitoring System (CAMS): Tracks O2, CO2, CO, hydrocarbons, refrigerants, etc..
Portable Detectors: Colorimetric tubes and handheld devices verify levels of acetone, ammonia, chlorine, etc..
Exposure Limits: U.S. Navy sets Emergency (1-hr, 24-hr) and Continuous (90-day) Exposure Guidance Levels (EEGLs/CEGLs) for numerous substances.
Challenges & Innovations
Confined Space: Lack of natural ventilation makes air management critical.
Storage: Non-regenerative systems need stored purification agents, using valuable space.
Research Focus: Developing regenerative technologies and refining exposure limits for contaminants like CO, formaldehyde, and others to enhance crew safety

NASA manages ISS air quality through sophisticated Environmental Control and Life Support Systems (ECLSS) that actively remove CO2 (like Four Bed CO2 Scrubber), filter trace contaminants (TCCS, catalytic oxidation), monitor for particulates (Mochii microscope, AQM monitors), and ensure correct gas mixtures, using advanced sensors (ANITA-2) and strict guidelines (SMACs) to maintain a safe breathing environment for astronauts, tackling challenges from equipment off-gassing, spills, and crew metabolic byproducts.
Key Air Quality Management Systems & Methods:
Atmosphere Revitalization System (ARS): The core system responsible for keeping air fresh.
Carbon Dioxide Removal: Uses sorbent beds that capture CO2, which are then regenerated by heat and vacuum.
Trace Contaminant Control System (TCCS): Removes harmful chemicals via filters (activated carbon, catalytic oxidation) and adsorption.
Monitoring:
Air Quality Monitors (AQM) & ANITA: Gas chromatographs and spectrometers analyze air for dozens of compounds in near real-time.
Mochii: A miniature electron microscope for real-time particle monitoring.
Major Constituent Analyzer (MCA): Measures main gases (O2, N2, CO2).
Contaminant Sources: Sources include crew metabolism, equipment off-gassing, spills, and material degradation.
Guidelines: Spacecraft Maximum Allowable Concentrations (SMACs) set limits for specific contaminants to protect crew health.
Current & Future Focus:
Advanced Sensors: New sensors (like the H2 sensor) are tested for better detection.
Research: Investigating materials to minimize contaminant off-gassing and studying microbial life in the air.
Operational Use: ANITA-2 is being used for operational decisions on trace contaminants

The ISS uses advanced air scrubber systems, primarily the Four Bed Carbon Dioxide Scrubber (4BCO2) and the Amine Swingbed, to remove crew-exhaled CO2 and humidity, regenerating air by using sorbent materials (like zeolites/amines) that absorb contaminants and release them into space or use heat/vacuum for regeneration, minimizing resupply needs and recycling water for future missions like Artemis. These systems are crucial for long-duration stays, recycling vital resources and ensuring breathable air.
Key Technologies & Methods:
Four Bed Carbon Dioxide Scrubber (4BCO2): A next-gen system using commercial adsorbent materials (molecular sieves) to capture CO2 and water vapor, venting the CO2 and allowing water to be recycled.
Amine Swingbed: Uses two beds of amine-based sorbents; one absorbs CO2/humidity while the other is regenerated (desorbed) by vacuum/heat, offering a continuous, energy-efficient process.
Sabatier Reactor (ACLS): Part of the Advanced Closed Loop System (ACLS), it reacts captured CO2 with hydrogen (from water electrolysis) to form water (recycled) and methane (vented).
Zeolites: Older methods used zeolite minerals to trap CO2, which was then released into space when the beds were exposed to vacuum.
LiOH Canisters: Lithium Hydroxide canisters serve as a backup, chemically absorbing CO2 in a non-regenerative process, requiring replacement.
Trace Contaminant Control System (TCCS): Removes other harmful gases and particulates, ensuring air quality.
How They Work Together:
Capture: Sorbent beds (zeolite, amine) or LiOH filters pull CO2 from the cabin air.
Regeneration/Disposal:
Regenerative systems (4BCO2, Amine Swingbed) vent CO2 to space, recover water, and reuse the sorbents.
Non-regenerative LiOH canisters are replaced when saturated.
Recycling: The recovered water is processed for drinking and creating oxygen.
These systems create a "closed-loop" environment, essential for keeping the crew alive and reducing reliance on Earth resupply missions

#10 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-10 19:01:04

It is not possible to provide a simple, accurate "lumens chart" for a specific grow light's power input (400 W/m²) because lumens are not the correct measurement for plant growth and a direct conversion from wattage to lumens is not feasible without knowing the light's specific spectrum.
Why Lumens Don't Work for Grow Lights
Lumens measure brightness as perceived by the human eye, which is most sensitive to the green/yellow part of the spectrum. Plants primarily use blue and red wavelengths for photosynthesis, which the human eye perceives less efficiently.
For growing plants, the relevant metric is PPFD (Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density), measured in micromoles per square meter per second ($\mu$mol/m²/s). Mars Hydro and other grow light manufacturers provide PPFD charts, not lumen charts.
Mars Hydro PPFD and Wattage Guidelines
While a specific "400 W/m²" product isn't standard, Mars Hydro recommends specific PPFD ranges for different growth stages and suggests the following guidelines for typical LED grow lights (watts per square foot is a general rule):
Growth Stage     Recommended PPFD ($\mu$mol/m²/s)    Typical Wattage per sq. ft (approx.)
Seedling    100 – 300    10 - 20 W/sq. ft
Vegetative    400 – 600    20 - 30 W/sq. ft
Flowering    600 – 1000    30 - 50 W/sq. ft
Key Takeaway
To determine the ideal setup for your specific Mars Hydro model, you should:
Consult the manufacturer's official PPFD map/chart for your specific model (e.g., TSW2000, FC-E4800) at various hanging heights. This information is typically available on the product page or the Mars Hydro website, such as on their guide to buying LED grow lights or the Mars Hydro blog.
Use a PAR meter or a smartphone app designed for measuring grow light intensity (PPFD/Lux) to get accurate readings at the canopy level.
Adjust the hanging height and dimmer settings according to the plant's current life cycle to achieve the target PPFD, rather than focusing on a lumen value or a fixed wattage/area ratio

The solar irradiance of \(400\text{\ W/m}^{2}\) on the surface of Mars is approximately \(46,100\text{\ lumens\ per\ square\ meter}\) (lux) under certain clear sky conditions. The conversion from watts per square meter (irradiance) to lumens per square meter (lux, which is a measure of illuminance) depends on the luminous efficacy of the light source's specific spectrum, which is different for Mars' dusty atmosphere than for Earth's. The general conversion factor used for a sunlight-like spectrum is about 93 lumens per watt, though values vary based on atmospheric conditions. Mars Illumination BBCode Chart The following chart uses the conversion factor derived from laboratory measurements (approx. 115.25 lux per W/m²) for a value close to 400 W/m². This is presented in BBCode format. Mars Solar Irradiance to Illuminance (Lux) Conversion [TABLE][TR][TH]Irradiance (W/m²)[/TH][TH]Illuminance (Lux/Lumens per m²)[/TH][/TR][TR][TD]400 W/m²[/TD][TD]~46,100 lx[/TD][/TR][/TABLE] For context, bright sunlight on Earth's surface at noon is about 100,000 lux. The 400 W/m² level on Mars is comparable to an overcast day on Earth or the sun on Earth at noon on a winter day in certain northern latitudes

It seems that 100 W/m^2 incondensents bulbs for Approximately 4.91 megawatts of power would be required to adequately light the parabolic dome on Mars but light intensity from LEDS use quite a bit less.

How to calculate power requirements for large LED lighting projects?

With these constraints, the chart below will provide the approximate total lumens you need for your space; divide the total lumens by the number of light fixtures you plan to use. These calculations use 65-degree beam spread downlights, downlights with tighter beam spread require more

Led Light Requirement Calculator

https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/100w-equal-led-bulb

  • Socket Rating    Safe LED Options    Actual Draw Power
    60W Socket    Up to 100W equivalent LED    8-15W actual
    75W Socket    Up to 150W equivalent LED    12-22W actual
    100W Socket    Up to 200W equivalent LED    18-35W actual

#12 Re: Human missions » A City Rises on the Plain... » 2025-12-10 18:49:32

ya reverse or inverse open pit style which is hopefully possible once equipment is there on Mars.

eER0qkJ.png

#13 Re: Planetary transportation » Internal combustion engines for Mars » 2025-12-10 16:16:09

Yes, coal can be used in engines similar to wood gas systems, using a gasifier to create flammable synthesis gas (syngas) from the solid fuel, which is then filtered and fed to a modified internal combustion engine, though wood/charcoal was more common during WWII

fuel shortages;
both work by heating fuel in low oxygen to produce combustible gases like Carbon Monoxide (\(CO\)) and Hydrogen (\(H_{2}\)) for powering vehicles or generators, with coal offering steadier, hotter burns but requiring more robust filtration for dust. 

How Gasification Works (Wood & Coal) Gasification Process:
The fuel (wood, charcoal, or coal) is heated to high temperatures (900-1200°C) in a reactor with restricted air, causing partial combustion and thermal decomposition (pyrolysis).

Syngas Production:
This process creates a flammable gas mixture, primarily Carbon Monoxide (\(CO\)) and Hydrogen (\(H_{2}\)), known as synthesis gas or "wood gas" (even with coal).

Cooling & Filtering:
The hot gas is cooled and filtered to remove tar, water, and ash particles, preventing engine damage.Engine Fuel: The cleaned syngas is then drawn into the engine (like a car or generator) to power it, replacing gasoline. Similarities &

Differences Principle:
The fundamental gasification principle is identical for wood and coal, converting solid fuel into a usable gas.Fuel Handling: Coal burns hotter and longer but produces more dust, requiring better filtration than some wood setups.

Usage:
Both were used during fuel shortages (like WWII) to run vehicles and generators, with wood gas more prevalent due to fuel rationing. Engine Adaptations Standard internal combustion engines can be modified to run on this gas by adding the gasifier unit, filters, and controls.Systems often include a hopper for fuel, a reactor/burn chamber, filters (cyclone, radiator), and a blower

Calliban wrote:

To make carbon monoxide, carbon must be burned in an atmosphere with limited oxygen.  This releases about 20% of the heat released by complete combustion.  The process that Kbd512 has described produces particles of carbon.  So that is what we start with.  Carbon monoxide has important uses of its own.  One such use is the production of reduced iron.  Making strong engineering bricks is another use we have noted.  But it is a precursor to other more convenient fuels.  For example:

CO + H2O + heat = CO2 + H2
2H2 + CO = CH3OH.

This is methanol.  It is a clean burning liquid fuel that doesn't freeze until -97°C.  We could store it in tanks on Mars with very little pressurisation.

#14 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-10 16:10:30

Yes light measurement is problematic as we all referrence light intensity as watts rather than lumens.

The brightness of the sun on Earth is not measured in a single lumen value, as lumens measure total light output and the brightness perceived on Earth varies by location and atmospheric conditions. Instead, a common way to quantify it is in lux, which measures illuminance per square meter. At its peak, direct sunlight can reach approximately 100,000 to 140,000 lux. Peak sunlight: A clear, direct sun at its highest point in the sky can deliver a very intense illuminance of around 100,000 to 140,000 lux.Atmospheric effects: The exact amount of lux on the ground varies based on the sun's position and atmospheric conditions like cloud cover, which scatter and filter the light.Power vs. lumens: The sun's total power output is about \(1360\) watts per square meter above the atmosphere (the solar constant). However, lux is a better measure for how bright it appears to the human eye because it accounts for the varying sensitivity of our vision across different wavelengths of light

How Many Lumens is the Sun?

light electromagnetic spectrum
Electromagnetic_Spectrum_880_x_440_1024x1024.jpg?v=1558215765

light electromagnetic radiation physics Faraday Effect

#15 Re: Planetary transportation » Internal combustion engines for Mars » 2025-12-10 14:59:09

kbd512 wrote:

tahanson43206,

If you have to carry the fuel and oxidizer with you, as you would on any planet except Earth, then pure Carbon doesn't require extra Oxygen atoms to combine with the Hydrogen atoms.

Kilograms of Pure Oxygen for Complete Combustion of 1kg of fuel:

Pure Carbon (32.8MJ/kg; 1kg powdered graphite = 1.05-1.15L; 28.52MJ/L): 2.67kg (2.34L); 3.49L ttl vol, 9.40MJ/L incl O2
Gasoline (44-46MJkg; 1kg = 1.2-1.4L; 32.86MJ/L): 2.3-2.7kg (2.37L); 3.77L ttl vol, 12.20MJ/L incl O2
Kerosene (43-46MJ/kg; 1kg = 1.25L; 36.8MJ/L): 2.93kg (2.57L); 3.82L ttl vol, 12.04MJ/L incl O2
Diesel (42-46MJ/kg; 1kg = 1.16-1.2L; 38.33MJ/L): 3.4kg (2.98L); 4.18L ttl vol, 11.00MJ/L incl O2
Methane (50-55.5MJ/kg; 1kg LCH4 = 2.36L; 23.52MJ/L): 4kg (3.51L); 5.87L ttl vol, 9.45MJ/L incl O2
Hydrogen (120-142MJ/kg; 1kg LH2 = 14.1L; 1L  = 10.07MJ/L): 8kg (7.01L); 21.11L ttl vol, 6.73MJ/L incl O2

LOX is 1,141kg/m^3 or 1.141kg/L

What can we conclude from that?

1. LH2 is a pretty pedestrian fuel when you need to store the cryogenic oxidizer, too.

2. There's not much difference between pure Carbon powder and Methane, except that making Methane is a lot more difficult and requires a lot more energy and technology than bubbling collected CO2 through a column of liquid Gallium eutectic.  You need equipment to collect both H2O and CO2, a Sabatier reactor, a reverse fuel cell, and a really good electrical power source.

3. You do get 17% to 30% more energy per total volume by combusting diesel / kerosene / gasoline, in comparison to Carbon powder, but if you thought making Methane was energy intensive, you're going to need to add a lot more energy-intensive equipment to your chemistry set, and of course, you only get that additional energy by combusting it using additional O2 mass, which means you need to make more O2 from some combination of H2O and CO2.  It's a pretty safe bet that all those additional chemical reaction steps will cannibalize whatever gains a dense liquid hydrocarbon fuel provides.

4. The relative complexity of obtaining LCO2 feedstock, on Earth or Mars, is pretty low.  It's everywhere in the atmosphere and in the oceans here on Earth.  Mars helps us out a bit by having a nearly-pure CO2 atmosphere, but at absurdly low density.  Speaking of absurdly low density, LH2 looks great, best of all fuels, except when you must consider the mass of the storage equipment, and then it doesn't look so hot.

5. Of all the fuels listed, and any other liquid hydrocarbon fuels that weren't, if you throw a kilogram of Carbon on the ground, here on Earth or on Mars, that same kilogram of pure Carbon fuel will still be there the next day.  We can't make the same claim about any of those other fuels.  Carbon doesn't require special storage of any kind.  If storing a cryogenic oxidizer is a pain we'd rather not deal with, then why compound the problem with fuels which also have special storage requirements?

Which means we have a place to ship Earths coal and a use for the raw ore.

#16 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-10 14:56:12

these second is just a large scereen TV dis[lay for the rooms windows to give also what ever screen sceen is desired.

Slow Glass Individualized Service on Mars or Anywhere

third is to use typical room lighting LED fixtures as one wants.

#17 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-10 14:50:44

Nice!  The idea of projecting upward is particularly interesting!  We could mount very light weight mirrors on the interior of the dome, and let the LED's projecting from below illuminate the entire interior.

The original idea was to mount panels on the interior wall, and that would have required lighting that would have needed cables to carry electricity, plus there would be need for periodic maintenance.  Your suggestion of projecting light upwards would eliminate all those issues.

We actually had 2 different items for lighting for the inside of the dome and for the inside of the buildings.

First is the white wall of the inside of the dome can be used with a computer and several projector systems to lace any sceen that is desired.

or large-screen projection onto a wall, consider ultra short throw (UST) laser projectors which can create a massive, bright, 4K image from just inches away from the wall. For optimal image quality, especially in brightly lit rooms, pairing the projector with an Ambient Light Rejecting (ALR) screen is highly recommended.
Top Projector System Options
Here are some highly-rated projector systems suitable for large screens or walls:
Product Name     Throw Type    Resolution    Brightness    Key Features    Price Range (USD)
Hisense PX3-PRO    Ultra Short Throw (UST)    4K UHD    3,000 Lumens    Google TV, Dolby Vision, great for gaming    ~$3,000
Samsung The Premiere LPU9D    Ultra Short Throw (UST)    4K UHD    3,450 Lumens    Sleek design, smart capabilities with Alexa/Bixby, powerful built-in sound    ~$6,000
Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800    Ultra Short Throw (UST)    4K PRO-UHD    4,000 Lumens    Android TV, Yamaha speakers, exceptionally bright picture in any lighting    ~$2,800
Optoma HCPro-4400    Standard Throw    4K UHD    5,000 Lumens    Dual laser, Dolby Vision/HDR10+, vertical/horizontal lens shift for flexible installation    ~$6,000
Key Considerations for Your Setup
Throw Distance:
Ultra Short Throw (UST): Sits a few inches from the wall, ideal for small spaces or living rooms where a ceiling mount or long cable run is impractical.
Short Throw or Standard Throw: Requires more distance from the wall but can be installed at an angle or ceiling-mounted, offering more flexibility in some professional or dedicated home theater setups.
Ambient Light: Projectors with high lumen ratings (e.g., 3,000+ lumens) and/or an ALR screen perform well in brightly lit rooms. A plain white wall works best in a light-controlled (dark) room.
Screen vs. Wall: While you can project onto a wall, an Ambient Light Rejecting (ALR) screen is engineered with specific materials to reject ambient light, enhancing color, contrast, and overall picture quality dramatically compared to a painted wall.
Resolution: 4K UHD and 4K PRO-UHD projectors provide stunning clarity and detail on large displays, making for an immersive viewing experience

For a large screen or wall projection system, key factors are high brightness (lumens), high resolution (4K recommended), appropriate throw distance, and a quality ambient light rejecting (ALR) screen.
Here is a guide and some recommended systems in BBCode format:
Guide to Choosing a Large Screen Projector System
To ensure a vibrant, clear image on a large scale (120 inches or more), especially in rooms with ambient light, consider the following specifications:
Brightness (Lumens): For large screens in a dark room, 1,500-2,000 lumens might suffice. For rooms with moderate to high ambient light (e.g., living rooms, conference halls with windows), aim for 3,000 to 6,000+ lumens. Laser projectors often provide more consistent brightness and longer life than lamp-based models.
Resolution: For large screen sizes, 4K resolution (3840x2160 pixels) is highly recommended to prevent the image from looking pixelated.
Throw Distance:
Ultra Short Throw (UST): Sits just inches from the wall/screen, ideal for smaller rooms and avoiding shadows.
Standard/Long Throw: Placed further back, often ceiling mounted, requiring more room space.
Screen Type: A quality Ambient Light Rejecting (ALR) or Ceiling Light Rejecting (CLR) screen is crucial for maintaining image vibrancy in well-lit environments, as a standard white wall or screen will look washed out.
Recommended Projector Systems
Here are a few high-performance projectors suitable for large screens (up to 150 inches), along with general screen guidance:
High-End Home Cinema (Standard Throw)
Epson Pro Cinema LS12000: A premium 4K Pro-UHD laser projector with exceptional color and contrast ratio, ideal for dedicated home theaters. It features extensive motorized lens shift for flexible installation.
Brightness: 2,700 lumens
Light Source: Laser (rated for 20,000 hours)
Screen Pairing: Pairs well with a high-quality 120"+ matte white or high-contrast screen.
Ultra Short Throw (UST) (for bright rooms/living areas)
Epson EpiqVision Ultra LS800: One of the brightest UST projectors available, designed to be placed near the wall. It's bright enough to be used in well-lit rooms and can produce an image up to 150 inches.
Brightness: 4,000 lumens
Light Source: Laser
Screen Pairing: Requires a specific UST/ALR screen for best performance in ambient light.
Hisense PX3-PRO: A triple laser 4K UST projector that supports Dolby Vision and is great for gaming due to low input lag in game mode.
Brightness: Approx. 3,000 lumens
Light Source: Triple Laser
Screen Pairing: Best used with an ALR screen designed for UST projectors.
Large Venue/Auditorium (Professional Grade)
Optoma ZU820T: A powerful professional installation laser projector designed for large venues, offering very high brightness.
Brightness: 8,800 lumens
Light Source: Laser
Screen Pairing: Suitable for very large screens (over 150 inches) in large halls or auditoriums where high ambient light is a concern.
When selecting a screen, consider brands like Elite Screens, Da-Lite, or Spectra Projection which offer various sizes and materials optimized for different projector types and lighting conditions

#18 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-09 18:22:18

a teired approach to what might be the shape of buildings within the dome.

https://newmars.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=7

possible homes within a large crator

https://newmars.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=4

individual LEDs are seperated into 3 levels types and even more for color spectrum.

30 Lumen

40 Lumens

50 for the bright Lumen

Most of us have seen the rope strips leds that not only have color but we can make a variety to go to mars.

led-strip-3001HY-v2_549ced2c-fc19-45d7-8802-863a55a91a55.jpg?v=1563342263&width=360

#19 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-09 18:16:51

20251114-223600.jpg

If we have structures inside as noted in a couple of designs for inside for the people to live in such as multiple buildings.
The inside of the building will also need lighting as its not likely that we will have normal windows or doors for the structures.

C6QNo6LWQAE3Ls8.jpg

#20 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-09 18:12:47

For a Mars dome used for agriculture, the required LED lighting intensity should provide a Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density (PPFD) in the range of 400 to 1000 µmol/m²/s, depending on the growth stage and specific crop type. The specific dome dimensions (200m diameter, 120m tall) define the physical space, but the intensity is determined by the biological needs of the plants being grown within that space.
Key Metrics for Martian Agriculture Lighting
In a controlled-environment agriculture (CEA) setting like a Mars habitat, natural sunlight is generally insufficient or too hazardous due to radiation and dust, making artificial LED lighting the primary solution.
Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density (PPFD): This is the critical measurement for plant growth, quantifying the number of photosynthetically active photons (400-700 nm wavelength) that hit a square meter each second (µmol/m²/s).
Target Intensity Ranges (PPFD):
Seedlings/Clones: 200-400 µmol/m²/s.
Vegetative Growth: 400-600 µmol/m²/s.
Flowering/Fruiting (high-light plants): 600-1000 µmol/m²/s (or even higher with CO2 supplementation).
System Design Considerations
The large size of the dome requires a sophisticated lighting system design, likely utilizing a vast array of high-efficiency, full-spectrum LED fixtures rather than a few central lights.
Fixture Placement: To ensure even light distribution and the correct PPFD, fixtures would need to be strategically placed and potentially layered (e.g., in vertical farming racks).
Energy Efficiency: High-quality LEDs consume less power for the same light output. Given the energy constraints on Mars, maximizing efficiency is paramount.
Light Spectrum ("Light Recipes"): Different light spectra can optimize biomass or nutrient content. A full-spectrum or "white" light with some far-red might be chosen for balanced growth, while a red/blue mix could maximize certain phytonutrients.
Daily Light Integral (DLI): The total amount of light received over a day is also crucial. For high-yield crops, this typically ranges from 10-30 mol/m²/day.
Ultimately, the exact intensity will be a function of the specific crops selected for the habitat and the overall system design (e.g., if CO2 levels are elevated, higher light intensities can be utilized for maximum growth

About the Lumens to PPF (umol/s) Calculator

#21 Exploration to Settlement Creation » Dome LED lighting and for crops » 2025-12-09 18:12:29

SpaceNut
Replies: 10

20251114-005654.jpg

A questioned raised is for people and more.

Of course you recognize that lighting is done with LED panels inside the dome.

The entire complex must be powered by a robust fission reactor.  I assume the reactor will be some distance away from the dome, and one of the excavated volumes in the crater wall would be a logical place for such a system.

We can mount the LEDs in panels around the inside pointing towards the dome surface or you can mount them on poles to point upward rather than mounting them which could cause damage to the structure.

Stuff for crops
Crops

Greenhouse - hydroponics vs soil

Growing plants on Mars

This document was created to provide simple conversion charts that estimate the amount of light needed to replace an existing light source and the preferred

Dome will need many control systems to keep the people safe.
Humidity Moisture Habitat Air Management

We will need plumbing for all services within the dome.
Power Distribution by pipelines on Mars.

#23 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Brick on Mars » 2025-12-08 19:13:01

This is one of the starships floor plans posts that make sense for crews first homes.
C6QNo6LWQAE3Ls8.jpg

The terrraced over layed hill would have greater numbers for each floor

#24 Re: Meta New Mars » kbd512 Postings » 2025-12-08 18:48:26

Energy requirement, mass of equipment, plus foot print volume required to send to Mars.
Repairability risk of parts not mechanical.

#25 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2025-12-08 18:17:54

I was wondering about the larger what appears to be raised in the center but rimmed with a trough around them. It might be easier to use the large rimmed crators to at least visit to check them out as well.

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