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#1 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » Yesterday 21:04:22
so far the AI tools compared to each other is giving different response even when feed identical information.
it would seem that shape of a parabolic dome from the 4mm thick is doable.
adding floors and hallways add challenges to keep from buckling and need additional inside structures.
A 9 meter wide, 1 m hallway means a 4 m on either side to the base of the parabola.
Since a man is considers 2m typical and space above for other stuff as in venting and raising the deck above the ground 0.5 m for plumber make the height about 4 meters as the ceiling above is mostly not useable.
Of course the ends of the quasi Quonset hut is also ending with the same side parabolic shape so as to make the ends an airlock when built or retrofitted to the one's that we might bring.
working the 4mm plate numbers for walls and hallways did allow for 2 plus meters of regolith and 0.5 bar atmosphere.
A typical single or what some call twin mattress is roughly a 1 meter by 2 m in length.
If we lose 9 m for the length of the bunk house we end up with bunks on either side of the hallway that could be 4 m x 3 m with the rib wall divide giving dome support. That makes 17 crew members on each side or less to give way to common wash restroom locations and kitchens/ food stores plus other life support stuff.
open end view
This means no smelting to reform stock materials. Just removal of the bands and cut, plus bend to shape, reweld and begin adding in welded plates to stiffen up the structure for load bearing mass plus pressurization. Giving that first crew a stable method to build going forward until we have sufficient equipment and power on the ground.
sort of like this
depending on floor plan choice the room could have other things to make them more like a room at home.
Place each build next to each other with cross cutting arches making the initial structure grow as we need to build for larger populations.
#2 Re: Human missions » Block 3 starship first mission » Yesterday 19:59:24
Missions that proceed must be able to produce propellant:
Establishing a Mars propellant plant to refuel a Starship for a return trip likely requires several cargo missions, with estimates suggesting 2 to 6+ ships to deliver necessary infrastructure (solar panels, mining equipment) and initial fuel stocks. While some scenarios suggest 3-4 ships can enable a return via in-situ resource utilization (ISRU), initial, safer approaches might use 6+ tankers to establish necessary infrastructure.
Infrastructure Requirements: A fully operational plant capable of producing 1,000+ tons of propellant (methane and oxygen) for a return journey requires substantial power, estimated at 5 GWh, needing ~250 metric tons of equipment, equivalent to 2+ fully loaded cargo Starships.
Fuel Mining & Production: The process involves extracting water ice and capturing \(CO_{2}\) from the atmosphere.
Alternative/Interim Methods: Rather than immediate, full ISRU, early missions might rely on landing 3-4 Starships, where 3 are drained to fuel 1 for the return trip, or using 4-6 ships to establish a rudimentary plant.
Scale: SpaceX aims to send at least 2 uncrewed cargo ships before the first crewed mission to set up power, mining, and life support. Ultimately, the number of ships depends on the efficiency of the ISRU plant, the power capacity installed, and the willingness to risk the first crew's return capability
Water source from Korolev Crater or other location would be of benefit to getting a good start.
Based on current SpaceX Mars mission architecture, establishing a propellant plant on Mars to refuel a Starship for a return journey, utilizing water ice, requires a multi-stage, cargo-heavy operation. Initial Setup Phase: To establish the necessary propellant plant (Sabatier reactors, mining equipment, solar arrays) at a location like Korolev Crater, early, uncrewed missions would need to land several cargo Starships (potentially 2–5) containing roughly 100+ tons of equipment each.Propellant Production Requirement: To refuel a single Starship for a return journey, the plant must produce approximately 1,200 metric tons of propellant (methane and oxygen).Operational
Requirement: While early estimates suggested 1–2 cargo ships worth of equipment could start production, a more robust and faster turnaround (within one synod, or 26 months) likely requires at least 3-4 cargo ships to be active to ensure enough power and water processing capability to produce the ~1,200+ tons of fuel. In summary, to start a plant, 2-5 dedicated cargo Starships are required to land the equipment, with at least 3-4 of them acting as operational plant components/fuel depots to reliably produce enough fuel for one return trip.
Key considerations: Water Source: Korolev Crater is an ideal, high-latitude location (\(73^{\circ }\text{N}\)) with large, accessible, near-surface water ice deposits, reducing the need for deep drilling.
Power: The limiting factor will be the mass of solar panels or nuclear reactors required to power the electrolysis process to turn that water into hydrogen, requiring significant cargo mass for power generation.
Launch Windows: These cargo ships must arrive at least one, if not two, synodic periods (26–52 months) before the crew arrives, to ensure the tanks are full
#3 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Calliban's Brick Dome on Mars » Yesterday 17:42:39
while studying the structure of the parabolic shape I found that the wall of the arch is 1 meter thick at the base while as it comes to the top it is 10 cm thick.
#4 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus » Yesterday 17:39:11
The highway that I travel along is doing this type barrier to stop vehicle sound. Thanks again.
#6 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Ring Habitat on Mars Doughnut Torus » Yesterday 15:55:47
I decided to do some research into the composition and likely melting point of martian black sand. This appears to be the most suitable material for cast basalt on the Martian surface.
Curiosity's Investigation of the Bagnold Dunes, Gale Crater [black sands]
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com … 18GL079032'CheMin data show that sands from Phases 1 and 2 are composed of five main components: plagioclase feldspar, olivine, augite, pigeonite, and X-ray amorphous materials (Achilles et al., 2017; Ehlmann et al., 2017; Rampe et al., 2018). Minor amounts of hematite, magnetite, anhydrite, and quartz are detected in both Gobabeb and Ogunquit Beach, and ~7 wt.% phyllosilicate is detected in Ogunquit Beach.'
Plagioclase feldspar: melting point is 1100°C for sodium based plagioclas, to 1553°C for pure calcium plagioclas.
https://www.science.smith.edu/~jbrady/p … page04.phpMy analysis of this document, which analyses the plagioclase in Martian meteorites, suggests a 60% Ca and 40% Na abundance on average. This suggests that melting will begin at 1220°C and the sample will be fully liquid at 1400°C.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 3709005651Martian olivine appears to average at 30% Fe and 70% Mg, by number density. This suggests a complete liquidus at 1700°C, with melting starting at 1200°C. The two components are quite well intermixed.
https://www.science.smith.edu/~jbrady/p … page04.phpAugite is the most common pyroxene. It melts at ~1000°C.
http://mingen.hk/augite.htmlPigeonite is part of the pyroxine group of minerals. Melting point ~1000°C.
To summarise: Martian black sand consists of a mixture of basalt based minerals. Melting will begin at 1000°C and complete liquidus will not occur until 1700°C. At 1250°C, a substantial fraction of the components are liquid. The material will have the properties of a viscous colloidal paste. This may be suitable for injection moulding. However, the presence of suspended solids within the paste may make it relatively abrasive. We need to keep this in mind when designing equipment that is designed to process this hot material.
On the other hand, this reference suggests that all silicate based basaltic rock will be fully molten at 1200°C and complete solidification can be assumed at 600°C.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb … trock.htmlEither way, temperatures in the ~1200°C range appear to be adequate to turn the sand into a mouldable liquid. The exact reological properties of the liquid (viscosity, solud content, abrasiveness, etc) are things that we would need to test on a simulant material here on Earth, because they have a bearing on exactly how we can use this material. If the liquid is relatively fluid in this temperature range, then we can sand cast it in cast iron moulds. These are things that we could initially import but should be able to make on Mars once we have the ability to produce iron from native materials.
#7 Re: Meta New Mars » kbd512 Postings » Yesterday 15:55:19
My posted content is here in the topic
FYI Caliban posted about Basalt sands smelting which I quoted from the other topic we have going.
#8 Re: Human missions » Block 3 starship first mission » 2026-02-04 19:22:12
Our engineered atmosphere is 0.5 bar for internal use starting from mars air which is 0.006 bar Composition: 95% CO2, 2.85% Nitrogen, 0.17% Oxygen.
Normal earth air is o2 at 21% for 1.0 bar containing N2 which makes up almost the remaining % of the 14.7 psi.
Of course one of the issues is the quantity of air we need to the volumes that we are living with in and the other is the fuel levels to get back home are huge which makes the power demand high.
#9 Re: Human missions » Block 3 starship first mission » 2026-02-04 19:05:59
This is what Mars Society has in its planning
what we know for harvesting the atmosphere
#10 Human missions » Block 3 starship first mission » 2026-02-04 18:44:35
- SpaceNut
- Replies: 3
The information on the web indicates that 4 cargo with 2 crewed are thought to be there with fuel to return already waiting but that means those ships needed a dedicated mission to create fuel.
It might look like this with the ships on mars surface.
But what if the mission was a half payload delivery where man setup a system from the cargo and ships that they arrive in.
Ai indicates that
[center][size=150]Starship Block 3 – Fuel Remaining on Mars (50 t Payload)[/size][/center]
Scenario: Block 3 Starship is fully refueled in LEO (≈1200–1250 t propellant) and departs for Mars carrying 50 t of payload.
With a lighter payload than the “maxed out” case, Starship needs slightly less Δv from its tanks, so it arrives with a bit more residual propellant margin—but it still lands effectively “dry” from an operational standpoint.
[hr]
[size=120]Propellant Usage Breakdown (50 t Payload)[/size]
Trans-Mars Injection (TMI): ~850–900 t
Course Corrections: ~10–20 t
Mars EDL + Landing Burn: ~80–120 t
Total Used: ~940–1,040 t
Initial Load: ~1200–1250 t[hr]
[size=120]Estimated Remaining Propellant on Mars[/size]
Remaining = 1200–1250 t - (940–1040 t) Remaining ≈ 160–310 t (in main tanks, gross)However, this “remaining” is not clean, usable ascent propellant:
Main tanks: Largely reserved as performance margin, residuals, and non-usable slosh.
Header tanks: Provide the controlled landing propellant and are nearly empty after touchdown.
Practical, controllable post-landing propellant:
[size=120]Still only a few percent of total capacity, effectively negligible for ascent.[/size]The lighter payload improves margin and robustness, not the fundamental architecture: Starship is still intended to rely on ISRU for any departure from Mars.
[hr]
[size=120]Operational Conclusion (50 t Payload Case)[/size]
Starship lands with more margin than a heavier-payload mission, but still not enough for ascent.
Mission design still assumes full ISRU refueling (~1200 t CH₄/LOX) on Mars for return.
For base planning, you should continue to treat each landed Starship as operationally “empty”.
[center]Even with only 50 t of payload, Starship’s Mars architecture is still: arrive nearly dry, refuel on the surface.[/center]
Seems like something is off as a full payload is expected to be next to nothing but with less payload it should be quite a bit remaining.
Seems that AI gets confused....
Why “Less Payload” Doesn’t Automatically Mean “More Fuel Left on Mars”
1. The landing burn dominates the fuel budget — not the payload mass
On Mars, Starship performs:A long supersonic retro propulsive deceleration
A flip maneuver
A final landing burn
These burns require a minimum fixed amount of delta‑V, regardless of payload.
Even if you remove 50 tons of cargo, the landing sequence still costs almost the same amount of propellant.Payload mass changes the burn slightly, but not enough to leave a meaningful surplus.
Think of it like braking a car from 80 mph to 0 mph — removing passengers doesn’t change the braking distance much.
2. Starship uses header tanks for landing — and they are sized for safety, not efficiency
The landing fuel comes from:CH₄ header tank
LOX header tank
These tanks are:
Small
Fixed‑volume
Filled before EDL
Designed to guarantee a safe landing even in worst‑case conditions
If payload is lighter, the header tanks don’t magically shrink or adjust.
They still contain the same amount of fuel, and Starship still burns most of it to land safely.So the “extra” fuel isn’t in the main tanks — it’s in the header tanks, and it gets used anyway.
3. Mars atmosphere is thin — so payload mass barely affects drag
On Earth, a lighter vehicle slows down more easily.
On Mars, the atmosphere is so thin that drag is weak, so mass doesn’t change the deceleration profile much.Starship still needs nearly the same:
Heat shield performance
Retropropulsive braking
Landing thrust
Thus, fuel savings from reduced payload are tiny.
4. The landing burn must maintain a minimum thrust level
Raptor engines cannot throttle arbitrarily low.
Even if the ship is lighter:The engines must stay above minimum throttle
That means extra thrust
Which means extra fuel burned
This cancels out much of the theoretical savings from reduced mass.
5. Propellant gauging in low gravity is inaccurate
As we discussed earlier:Slosh
Low gravity
Thermal gradients
Pressure transients
All cause fuel readings to fluctuate, making it look like payload changes fuel remaining when it’s really just sensor noise.
The short version
Reducing payload does help a little, but Starship’s Mars landing fuel requirement is dominated by:Fixed landing maneuvers
Header tank sizing
Minimum engine throttle
Weak atmospheric drag
So the leftover fuel doesn’t scale with payload the way intuition suggests.
#11 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » 2026-02-04 16:54:58
without bbcode formating
Objective
Estimate equipment types, mass, and power needed—delivered from Earth—to use Mars regolith to produce about 2,300,000 kg of stainless steel for building structures.
Production scale and material flow
Target steel:
Total stainless steel: 2,300,000 kg
Campaign assumption:
Operating duration: ~5 years
Steel per year: ~460,000 kg/year (~460 t/year)
Steel per operational day (≈350 days/year): ~1,300 kg/day
Regolith requirement (order-of-magnitude):
Effective iron-bearing fraction in processed regolith: ~15%
Overall recovery to usable iron: ~50–60%
Net iron yield from regolith: ~8–9% by mass
Regolith per kg of finished stainless (iron from regolith + imported alloying elements): ~7–8 kg/kg steel
So:
Total regolith processed: ~16,000,000–18,000,000 kg (16,000–18,000 t)
Per year: ~3,200–3,600 t/year
Per day: ~9–11 t/day
Energy and power (order-of-magnitude)
Primary steelmaking on Earth is roughly 20–35 MJ/kg of steel (including mining, reduction, melting). Mars will be less efficient initially, so assume:
Specific energy for Mars stainless steel: ~25–40 MJ/kg
For 2,300,000 kg of steel:
Total energy: ~58,000,000–92,000,000 MJ (≈5.8×10¹³–9.2×10¹³ J)
Spread over 5 years of operation (~1.6×10⁸ seconds):
Ideal average power: ~360–580 kW
With inefficiencies, downtime, and margin: design for roughly 2–3 MW continuous electrical, plus substantial thermal management capacity
Major equipment types, mass, and power
All masses are dry hardware estimates; real cargo planning would add ~20–30% for packaging, structure, and integration.
1. Regolith mining and hauling
Function: Excavate ~10 t/day of ore-bearing regolith and deliver it to the plant
Elements: 3–4 autonomous electric loaders/haulers, small dozer, maintenance shelter
Mass: ~40–60 t
Power (while operating): ~150–250 kW
2. Crushing and grinding
Function: Jaw crusher + mill to reduce regolith to fine powder
Mass: ~15–25 t
Power: ~200–300 kW
3. Beneficiation and separation
Function: Magnetic and/or density separation, dust handling, feed hoppers
Mass: ~25–40 t
Power: ~300–400 kW
4. Chemical reduction furnaces
Function: Reduce iron oxides to metallic iron (e.g., hydrogen or CO-based direct reduction, or carbothermal)
Hardware: One or two shaft/rotary furnaces, preheaters, gas recirculation, refractory linings
Mass: ~60–100 t
Power (electrical plus thermal equivalent): ~800–1,200 kW
5. Alloying, melting, and refining
Function: Electric arc or induction furnace to melt iron, add Cr/Ni/Mn, refine to stainless
Mass: ~30–50 t
Power: ~400–700 kW (high peak, lower average due to batch operation)
6. Casting, rolling, and forming
Function: Casting of ingots/billets, rolling mill for beams/plates, cutting and shaping
Mass: ~40–70 t
Power: ~300–500 kW
7. Process gases and consumables (ISRU)
Function: Produce H₂, CO, and O₂ from Martian resources (water electrolysis, Sabatier/RWGS, gas handling)
Mass: ~50–80 t
Power: ~400–600 kW
8. Power generation and storage
Two broad options:
Option A – Nuclear
Type: Modular fission reactors totaling ~3–4 MWe
Mass (reactors, radiators, shielding, power conditioning): ~150–250 t
Option B – Solar plus storage
Array size: ~25–35 MWp (to cover night, dust storms, and storage losses for a ~2–3 MW average load)
Mass (panels, structure, batteries/flywheels): ~300–500 t
9. Thermal management and radiators
Function: Reject waste heat from furnaces, power systems, and electronics
Mass: ~30–50 t
10. Control systems, robotics, spares, and infrastructure
Function: Control rooms, electronics, cabling, structural frames, assembly tools, inspection/maintenance robots, spare parts
Mass: ~50–80 t
Totals and cargo delivery from Earth
Process, mining, ISRU, and forming equipment:
Mining and hauling: 40–60 t
Crushing and grinding: 15–25 t
Beneficiation: 25–40 t
Reduction furnaces: 60–100 t
Alloying/melting: 30–50 t
Casting and forming: 40–70 t
ISRU gases plant: 50–80 t
Thermal management: 30–50 t
Control, robotics, spares, infrastructure: 50–80 t
Subtotal (process + support): roughly 340–555 t
Power system:
Nuclear option: ~150–250 t
Solar + storage option: ~300–500 t
So:
Total hardware mass (process + power + support): about 500–800 t (nuclear-heavy) up to 650–1,050 t (solar-heavy)
With packaging, structure, and margin (+20–30%): roughly 650–1,400 t delivered from Earth
If a single cargo vehicle can land ~100 t on Mars, you’re looking at on the order of:
About 7–14 dedicated cargo flights to deliver a full stainless-steel production complex capable of producing ~2.3 million kg of stainless steel over ~5 years.
#12 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » 2026-02-04 16:52:19
Objective
Produce 2,300,000 kg of stainless steel on Mars from regolith, using equipment delivered from Earth, and estimate equipment mass and power needs.
High-level production chain
[]1. Regolith mining & hauling – dig and move ore-bearing regolith
[]2. Crushing & grinding – reduce to fine particles
[]3. Beneficiation – concentrate iron-bearing fraction
[]4. Chemical reduction – convert oxides to metallic iron
[]5. Alloying & melting – add Cr/Ni, refine to stainless
[]6. Casting & forming – ingots, beams, plates, structural members7. Power, gases & thermal control – keep everything running continuously
Throughput assumptions
[]Target steel mass: 2,300,000 kg
[]Campaign duration: ~5 years of operation
[]Steel per year: ~460,000 kg/year (~460 t/year)
[]Steel per day (operational): ~1,300 kg/day (assuming ~350 days/year uptime)
Regolith and ore requirements
Assume:
[]Effective Fe-bearing fraction in processed regolith: ~15%
[]Overall recovery to usable iron: ~50–60%
[]Net iron yield from regolith: ~8–9% by mass
[]Stainless steel composition: mostly Fe, with Cr/Ni/Mn partly imported from Earth (or from richer local ores later)
Approximate regolith mass needed per kg of stainless steel:
[]Regolith per kg steel: ~7–8 kg/kg steel (iron from regolith + imported alloying elements)
[]Total regolith for 2,300,000 kg steel: ~16,000,000–18,000,000 kg (16,000–18,000 t)
[]Regolith per year: ~3,200–3,600 t/year
[]Regolith per day: ~9–11 t/day
This is a modest daily tonnage by terrestrial mining standards, but on Mars it still demands robust, autonomous equipment.
Energy and power budget (order-of-magnitude)
Primary steelmaking on Earth typically consumes on the order of 20–35 MJ/kg of steel (mining + beneficiation + reduction + melting). Mars will be less efficient at first, so assume:
Specific energy for Mars stainless steel: ~25–40 MJ/kg steel (including overheads)
For 2,300,000 kg of steel:
[]Total energy: ~58,000,000–92,000,000 MJ
[]In joules: ~5.8×1013–9.2×1013 J
Spread over 5 years of operation:
[]Seconds in 5 years (approx): ~1.6×10^8 s
[]Average continuous power: ~360–580 kW (ideal)With inefficiencies, downtime, and margins: design for ~2–3 MW continuous electrical + substantial thermal handling
Equipment breakdown: mass and power (delivered from Earth)
All masses are dry hardware masses, not including packaging; add ~20–30% for shipping overhead when planning cargo.
[]1. Regolith mining & hauling system
[]Function: Excavate ~10 t/day of ore-bearing regolith, transport to plant
[]Elements: 3–4 autonomous electric loaders, small dozers, haulers, maintenance shelter
[]Mass (hardware): ~40–60 tPower (peak while operating): ~150–250 kW
[]2. Crushing & grinding
[]Function: Jaw crusher + ball/rod mill to reduce regolith to fine powder
[]Mass: ~15–25 t
[]Power: ~200–300 kW
[]3. Beneficiation & separation
[]Function: Magnetic separation, density separation, dust handling, feed hoppers
[]Mass: ~25–40 t
[]Power: ~300–400 kW
[]4. Chemical reduction furnaces
[]Function: Reduce iron oxides to metallic iron (e.g. hydrogen or CO-based direct reduction, or carbothermal)
[]Hardware: One or two shaft/rotary furnaces, preheaters, gas recirculation, refractory linings
[]Mass: ~60–100 tPower (electrical + thermal equivalent): ~800–1,200 kW
[]5. Alloying, melting & refining
[]Function: Electric arc or induction furnace to melt iron, add Cr/Ni/Mn, refine to stainless
[]Mass: ~30–50 t
[]Power: ~400–700 kW (high peak, lower average with batching)
[]6. Casting, rolling & forming
[]Function: Continuous or batch casting, rolling mill for beams/plates, cutting and shaping
[]Mass: ~40–70 t
[]Power: ~300–500 kW
[]7. Process gases & consumables production
[]Function: ISRU plant for H2, CO, O2 (electrolysis, Sabatier/Reverse Water Gas Shift), water handling
[]Mass: ~50–80 t
[]Power: ~400–600 kW
[]8. Power generation & storage
[]Option A – Nuclear:
[]Type: Modular fission reactors totaling ~3–4 MWe
[]Mass (reactors + radiators + shielding): ~150–250 t
[]Option B – Solar + storage (harder on Mars):
[]Array size: ~25–35 MWp (to cover night, dust, and storage losses)
Mass (panels, structure, batteries/flywheels): ~300–500 t
[]9. Thermal management & radiators
[]Function: Reject waste heat from furnaces, power systems, electronics
Mass: ~30–50 t
[]10. Control, robotics, spares & infrastructure
[]Function: Control rooms, electronics, cabling, structural frames, assembly tools, spare parts, inspection robots
Mass: ~50–80 t
Total equipment mass (hardware only)
[]Process + mining + ISRU + forming: ~310–475 t
[]Power system (nuclear or solar): ~150–500 t (depending on architecture)
[]Thermal + control + spares: ~80–130 t
[]Subtotal hardware: ~540–1,100 tWith packaging, launch adapters, margins (+20–30%): ~650–1,400 t to be delivered from Earth
You can tune this range depending on how aggressive you are with:
[]Automation level: more robots vs. more human labor
[]Power choice: nuclear (lower mass, higher complexity) vs. solar (higher mass, simpler tech)Throughput: longer campaign (lower power) vs. shorter campaign (higher power)
Cargo delivery concept (Earth → Mars)
Assuming a heavy cargo architecture (e.g. multiple large cargo landers or Starship-class vehicles):
[]Total delivered mass for steelmaking complex: ~650–1,400 t
[]Per-cargo-ship mass (if ~100 t landed per flight): ~7–14 cargo flights
[]Staging:[]Wave 1: Power, basic ISRU, initial mining & crushing (~200–300 t)
[]Wave 2: Full beneficiation, reduction furnaces, first melting/casting line (~250–400 t)
[]Wave 3: Expanded rolling/forming, additional power, redundancy, spares (~200–400 t)
Direct answer to your question
For producing ~2,300,000 kg of stainless steel from Mars regolith:
[]Equipment types needed:
[]Mining & hauling robots
[]Crushing & grinding plant
[]Beneficiation/separation line
[]Reduction furnaces
[]Alloying/melting furnaces
[]Casting & rolling/forming line
[]ISRU plant for H2/CO/O2
[]Power generation & storage
[]Thermal management & radiatorsControl, robotics, spares, structural frames
[]Mass per type (typical ranges):
[]Mining & hauling: ~40–60 t
[]Crushing & grinding: ~15–25 t
[]Beneficiation: ~25–40 t
[]Reduction furnaces: ~60–100 t
[]Alloying/melting: ~30–50 t
[]Casting & forming: ~40–70 t
[]ISRU gases plant: ~50–80 t
[]Power system: ~150–500 t
[]Thermal management: ~30–50 tControl & spares: ~50–80 t
[]Power needs:
[]Average continuous process power: ~2–3 MWe (including mining, ISRU, furnaces, forming)
[]Peak process power (melts, startup): up to ~4–5 MWe
[]Total installed generation (with margin): ~3–6 MWe equivalent
#13 Re: Meta New Mars » Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day » 2026-02-04 16:41:12
Trying to do without prefilling of numbers being generated making use of excel and auto fill to do my best
starting post is carried from the previous days 2-03-2026 last number for the day 237832 - last post 237865
2-4-26 postings
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
What collections of people think people should be property?
Greenland
Greenland
Greenland
Greenland
What collections of people think people should be property?
Copper, Silver, and other Metals
Copper, Silver, and other Metals
Copper, Silver, and other Metals
Cost-Effective Credible National Defense
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Why Artemis is “better” than Apollo.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day
WIKI Starship repurposed to make or build what we need
WIKI Starship repurposed to make or build what we need
TEMP pot hole
Block 3 starship first mission
Block 3 starship first mission
Block 3 starship first mission
#14 Re: Human missions » Mars Insitu Fuels made from atmosphere, regolith, water » 2026-02-03 19:24:34
Found a document for the topic
An Introduction to Mars ISPP Technologies
#15 Re: Meta New Mars » kbd512 Postings » 2026-02-03 17:20:08
Data inputted told of location on mars and source of the stainless from the starships 304L being re-fired in smelting and formed to the tubing dimensions. The equations presented give no temperature shift component to the strength.
If the tanks are inside the 9m shell and they are said to be 8.8 m inside then the walls either have a 10 cm spacer rib or the stainless is thicker than 4mm
#16 Re: Meta New Mars » Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day » 2026-02-03 15:37:26
Trying to do without prefilling of numbers being generated making use of excel and auto fill to do my best
starting post is carried from the previous days 2-02-2026 last number for the day 237811 - last post 237831
2-3-26 postings
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
What collections of people think people should be property?
What collections of people think people should be property?
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Why Artemis is “better” than Apollo.
Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.
Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day
Peter Zeihan again: and also other thinkers:
Peter Zeihan again: and also other thinkers:
Peter Zeihan again: and also other thinkers:
#17 Re: Meta New Mars » kbd512 Postings » 2026-02-03 15:35:37
Between using Googles AI and Bings copilot The tubing needs to have a wall thickness of 8 mm or for plate a thickness of 15mm for what we are trying to do. The large squarish area needs to even be thicker since the inflatable doe not push against the total surface.
#18 Re: Meta New Mars » kbd512 Postings » 2026-02-02 18:32:27
repurposing starship has a note of issues
#19 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » 2026-02-02 18:31:03
dummy page to put in more content
#20 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » 2026-02-02 18:30:04
Table 1: Individual Functional Spaces and Volumes
FUNCTION VOLUME - 4 CREW (m3) VOLUME - 6 CREW (m3)
Exercise
Aerobic Exercise 3.38 6.76
Aerobic Exercise 4.91 9.82
Resistive Exercise 3.92 7.84
Bone Loading 4.91 9.82
Sensorimotor Conditioning 4.91 9.82Group Socialization & Recreation
Athletic Games 18.2 27.3
Personal Recreation 1.2 1.2
Tabletop games & artistic/creative recreation 10.09 15.14
Video/movie viewing 4.8 7.2
Window viewing 4.62 4.62Human Waste Collection
Hand cleaning 2.69 5.38
Liquid waste collection 2.36 4.72
Solid waste collection 2.36 4.72Hygiene
Changing Volume 2.18 4.36
Facial cleaning 2.69 5.38
Finger/toenail clipping 2.34 4.68
Full body cleaning 4.34 8.68
Hair styling/grooming 2.34 4.68
Hand cleaning 2.69 5.38
Oral hygiene 2.34 4.68
Physical work surface access 4.35 8.7
Viewing appearance 1.8 3.6
Shaving 2.34 4.68
Skin care 2.34 4.68Logistics
Physical work surface access 4.35 4.35
Small item containment 1.2 1.2
Temporary stowage 6 6Maintenance & Repair
Computer display and control interface 1.7 3.4
Equipment Diagnostics 4.35 4.35
Physical work surface access 4.35 4.35
Soft goods fabrication 2.69 2.69EVA Support
Suit Component Testing 4.82 4.82
Computer Display and Control Interface 1.7 1.7
Video Communication 1.7 1.7
Audio Communication 1.7 1.7
Meal Consumption Full Crew Dining 10.09 15.14Meal Preparation
Food Item Sorting 3.3 3.3
Food Preparation 4.35 4.35
Utensil and food equipment hygiene 3.3 3.3Medical Operations
Advanced Medical Care 5.8 5.8
Ambulatory care 1.7 1.7
Basic Medical Care 5.8 5.8
Computer data entry / manipulation 1.2 1.2
Dental care 5.8 5.8
Private telemedicine 1.2 1.2
Two person meetings 3.4 3.4Mission Planning
Command and control interface 3.42 3.42
Physical work surface access 10.09 15.14
Team Meetings 4.8 7.2
Mission Training 18.2 27.3Private Habitation
Changing clothes 8.72 13.08
Meditation 4.8 7.2
Non-sleep rest/relaxation in private quarters 4.8 7.2
Physical work surface access 17.4 26.1
Single person private work, entertainment, and comm. 4.8 7.2
Sleep accommodation 10.76 16.14
Stretching 13.96 20.94
Two person meetings 13.6 20.4
Viewing appearance in private quarters 7.2 10.8Spacecraft Monitoring and Commanding
Command and Control 3.42 3.42
Teleoperation and Crew Communication 1.7 1.7Waste Management
Trash Containment 2.55 2.55
Trash Packing for Disposal | 3.76 | 3.76
#21 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Project Designing for Mars » 2026-02-02 18:21:36
Nasa document text Table 17: Comparison of Minimum Habitable Volumes and Case Study Habitable Volumes
Functional Space | Minimum Volume (m3) | MTH Volume (m3)
Exercise-1 (Cycle Ergometer) | 3.38 | 3.50
Exercise-2 (Treadmill) | 6.12 | 6.20
Exercise-3 (Resistive Device) | 3.92 | 4.29
Group Social-1 (Open Area) / Mission Planning-3 (Training) | 18.20 | 21.21
Group Social-2 (Table) / Meal Consumption (Table) / Mission Planning-2 (Table) 10.09 10.48
Human Waste-1 (Waste Collection) 2.36 2.36
Human Waste-2 (Cleansing) / Hygiene-1 (Cleansing) 4.35 4.35
Logistics-2 (Temporary Stowage) 6.00 6.18
Maintenance-1 (Computer) / EVA-2 (EVA Computer/Data) 3.40 3.55
Maintenance-2 (Work Surface) / Logistics-1 (Work Surface) / EVA-1 (Suit Testing) 4.82 5.11
Meal Preparation-1 (Food Prep) 4.35 4.35
Meal Preparation-2 (Work Surface) 3.30 3.30
Medical-1 (Computer) 1.20 1.65
Medical-3 (Medical Care) 5.80 6.40
Mission Planning-2 (Computer/Command) / Spacecraft Monitoring 3.42 3.55
Private Habitation-1 (Work Surface) / Medical-2 (Ambulatory Care) 17.40 17.40
Private Habitation-2 (Sleep & Relaxation) / Hygiene-2 (Non-Cleansing) 13.96 14.00
Waste Management 3.76 4.43
Logistics-3 (Storage Access) - 2.14
Utilization-1 (Scientific Research) - 5.22
Passageway to Hygiene - 3.84
Passageway to Second Deck - 10.25
Passageway to Third Deck / Egress/Ingress for Airlock - 3.43
Total NHV 115.83 147.19
NHV per Crewmember | 28.96 | 36.80
#22 Re: Meta New Mars » Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day » 2026-02-02 15:46:03
Trying to do without prefilling of numbers being generated making use of excel and auto fill to do my best
starting post is carried from the previous days 2-01-2026 last number for the day 237791 - last post 237810
2-2-26 postings
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender...
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Politics
Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.
Bogs and Bog, Floating Island Technology, and Roller Solar.
WIKI Starship repurposed to make or build what we need
Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day
Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day
Data Centers (Including Off World)
WIKI Project Designing for Mars
WIKI Project Designing for Mars
WIKI Project Designing for Mars
#23 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » WIKI Starship repurposed to make or build what we need » 2026-02-02 15:33:32
Requiring 10 starships of stainless steel to make the exoskeleton with a lot os tools to reform and repurpose it is a task that seems to make for failure.
37,050m of 30mm OD / 2mm wall thickness 304L tubing per Starship primary structure. 10 Starships provide 370,500m of tubing to work with.
It seems that just 1 m over our structure can not be supported by this tubing.
Based on structural requirements to support 2 meters of Martian regolith, 304L stainless steel would require significant thickness or structural reinforcement (such as corrugation or supporting arches) rather than a simple flat sheet.
Here is the breakdown based on structural analysis for Martian conditions: 1. Load Calculation (The Challenge) Regolith Depth: 2 meters (sufficient for radiation shielding).
Regolith Density: Approximately \(1000\text{--}1500\text{\ kg/m}^{3}\) (loose to packed).
Martian Gravity: \(0.38\text{\ g}\).Load per \(m^{2}\): 2 meters of regolith creates a vertical load of roughly \(7.6\text{--}11.4\text{\ kN/m}^{2}\) (approx. \(1500\text{\ kg}\times 2\text{\ m}\times 0.38\text{\ g}\approx 11.4\text{\ kPa}\)).
Internal Pressure: The habitat must also maintain internal air pressure (approx. \(10\text{--}100\text{\ kPa}\)), which often acts in favor of the structure by lifting the load, but requires the steel to act as a pressure vessel.
2. Thickness and Span for 304L Stainless Steel For a flat roof, 304L stainless steel would be prohibitive in thickness. Therefore, structural forms are required.
Thin Sheet (0.5 mm - 1 mm): Cannot span any meaningful distance; it would buckle under 2 meters of regolith.
Corrugated 304L Sheets (1.5 mm - 3 mm): If using a 2-3 inch deep corrugated profile, a thickness of \(1.5\text{\ mm}\) (\(16\text{\ gauge}\)) to \(3\text{\ mm}\) (\(1/8\text{\ inch}\)) might support the load over short spans of \(1\text{--}2\text{\ meters}\) between supports.
Structural Plate (\(6\text{\ mm}\) - \(12\text{\ mm}\)+): To span larger distances (e.g., \(3\text{--}5\text{\ meters}\)) without intermediate supports, \(304\text{L}\) plates of at least \(6\text{\ mm}\) to \(12\text{\ mm}\) (\(1/4\text{\ inch}\) to \(1/2\text{\ inch}\)) would likely be required to prevent sagging and failure under 2 meters of regolith.
Summary Recommendation To support 2 meters of regolith over a modest span of 3-4 meters, a \(6\text{\ mm}\) (\(1/4\text{\ inch}\)) thick 304L steel plate, properly stiffened or arched, is a reasonable starting engineering estimate. If using corrugated sheets, thicknesses as low as \(2\text{--}3\text{\ mm}\) could be used if closely supported
The other thing is the double toru constructed with 2 layers is insufficient for the 0.5 bar internal pressure. The stuff Nasa and Bigelow created is using 13 to 15 layers which means we are in need of 6 to 8 layers to get the same performance.
The internal of the inflatable needs for support structures that are not so far planned.
Estimated time to build a starship less engine is about 8 months plus so to think it will take any less to pull them apart and store until we need the pieces is also not in our favor.
Also landing them in a cluster means being 500 m to 1,000 meters from each other to limit debris damage push is the site has to much ice the units may not land stably possibly falling.
since we need 4 cargo ships to land and make fuel this could be a problem.
Starship Cargo Fuel Tank Dimensions (Metric)
Starship uses two main tanks inside its 9m‑diameter hull:
LOX tank (upper)
CH₄ tank (lower)
Both tanks share the same 9m outer diameter, with domed bulkheads separating them.
1. Outer Tank Diameter
9.0m external diameter (hull diameter)
Internal tank diameter is slightly less (~8.8m) due to wall thickness.
2. LOX Main Tank (Liquid Oxygen)
Approximate Dimensions
Diameter: ~8.8m internal
Height: ~20–22m (varies by configuration)
Volume: ~1,200–1,300m³ (estimated from total propellant volume split)
Notes
LOX tank occupies the upper half of Starship.
Uses a common dome to separate it from the CH₄ tank.
3. CH₄ Main Tank (Liquid Methane)
Approximate Dimensions
Diameter: ~8.8m internal
Height: ~12–14m
Volume: ~700–800m³
Notes
Located in the lower section of Starship.
Slightly smaller than the LOX tank because methane is less dense.
4. Header Tanks (Landing Tanks)
SpaceX has published header tank dimensions.
LOX Header Tank
Diameter: 3.14m
Internal Volume: 18.67m³
CH₄ Header Tank
Diameter: 3.14m
Internal Volume: 16.21m³
These are small spherical/ellipsoidal tanks used for landing burns.
5. Total Propellant Capacity (for context)
~1,200t LOX + ~240t CH₄ (varies by variant)
Total propellant volume ~1,900–2,000m³ (derived from density and mass)
Summary Table
Tank Diameter (m) Height (m) Volume (m³) Notes
Main LOX Tank ~8.8 ~20–22 ~1,200–1,300 Upper tank
Main CH₄ Tank ~8.8 ~12–14 ~700–800 Lower tank
LOX Header Tank 3.14 — 18.67 Published spec
CH₄ Header Tank 3.14 — 16.21 Published spec
#24 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-02-01 20:05:03
crater image has been fixed
Also removed Quonset hut tent from the posting removing structural confusion
#25 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-02-01 19:16:22
Posts created by the topic first post or any other notable members get churned under by our forums software as a part of database management in the MYSQL. The way to look for topics is now via our Daily Recap - Recapitulation of Posts in NewMars by Day, looking for bookmarks, or hash tags that you started, plus we have Posted | New | Active, memory of member profile check for any post that they have made. Keyword for our site can only do so much but then again we have google advance which looks at just the our website only.
All members are equal when it comes to making a post, the reason is for MOD's or Admins are to ensure we have no bad operators within them. Posing question in topic is what should be done so as to get all members that have knowledge to respond and to keep information within discussions and not privately scattered all over the place.
I am sorry that you took it personally as that was not the intent.