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Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,445

Boeing Starliner OFT-2

It appears that the Starliner has performed adequately so far...
I watched the online launch aboard the Atlas V, which appeared flawless--as usual for this fine launcher.
We will be able to watch the approach to ISS and docking later this early afternoon around 1:00 PM EDT.
So far, so good.

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,811

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Oldfart1939,

That's fantastic news.  Hopefully the combination of Dragon (SpaceX), Starliner (Boeing), and DreamChaser (Sierra Nevada Corporation) will provide assured human access to space.  Assuming that SLS eventually flies with Orion (Lockheed-Martin), that pretty much rounds-out the offerings from our largest aerospace and defense contractors.  If New Glenn flies with its own human-rated capsule during the next 5 years, then pretty much every major player in the game is now participating in crewed space flight endeavors using their own home-grown designs.  There will no doubt be a niche application for all of these capsules.  The important take-away is that the more pervasive the knowledge to conduct human space flight operations becomes, the greater our opportunities to expand out into space become.

Relying upon a sole contractor to do everything is a bad policy decision.  Any significant failure could cripple our human space flight program.  Sometimes there is no single "right answer" to the problem.  Instead, we need broad knowledge that shows everyone, that while they may do it better than someone else for some specific purpose or application, this is what "right looks like".  We want as many space-faring companies as the market will allow for, and we want to spur on innovation that makes crewed space flights routine, reliable, and repeatable without using a very specific hardware set.  We also want "anytime access", such that if a rescue situation ever arises, we always have rockets and capsules sitting on pads, ready to recover crews from stricken vessels or stations.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

From reports a couple of thrusters did malfunction but the backups did work. So no foul on its chances to be used for man so far.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Boeing docks Starliner capsule to ISS for the first time

Boeing's troubled Starliner makes it to the space station after second try

Boeing has made up to $600 million in repairs and "do-over" costs

not bad for a dummy.

Space station crew will unpack food and other supplies from the spacecraft and load it up with about 600 pounds of cargo, including lab experiments, to return to Earth. It's expected to land in New Mexico next Wednesday.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,783

Website

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

From the 5-24-2022 “Daily Launch”:

Starliner’s Docking At ISS Was Slightly Delayed

CNN (5/23) reports that The Boeing Company’s Starliner spacecraft docked with the ISS “Friday night at 8:28 p.m. ET.” Starliner’s docking “occurred about an hour later than expected as ground crews worked through a few issues, including a software issue that skewed graphics, sort of like a misaligned GPS map.” The Starliner’s pop-out docking ring malfunctioned on its first docking attempt.

This after reports that 2 of 12 thrusters failed during the orbit insertion burn,  one right after the other.  And,  there were “spacecraft cooling problems”,  not described to the public.  There is still an undocking,  an entry,  and a landing to do.  Makes you wonder.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2022-05-24 11:10:48)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,811

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

They'll "get it right" one of these days, or so I hope.  If these problems are mostly software-related, then they should be solvable without major redesign.  Cooling problems are disconcerting, unless that is also software-related.  Maybe a third flight attempt will be a charm and no serious systems failures will be encountered.  It appears as though thrusters are still giving Boeing problems.  Utterly reliable life support, communications, navigation, propulsion / attitude control systems are a hard requirement for crewed space flight.  Since we all know that this is not Boeing's first rodeo, I want to know what all that money was spent on.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,783

Website

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

It was spent on "shareholder value",  not "engineering excellence".  Boeing's top corporate management boasted publicly about how they made that change,  when they moved headquarters from Seattle to Chicago. 

Now they are moving it from Chicago to the DC vicinity,  to make executive lobbying for military stuff easier. 

Meanwhile,  there are some very serious problems with several current Boeing products,  not the least of which has been SLS,  with Block 1 launch cost estimates now exceeding $4B.  You already know about the 737 MAX,  the 777X certification issues,  and the 787 troubles with quality in manufacturing so bad that even the government won't allow them. 

The enhanced corporate lobbying is to overcome that poor engineering performance,  so that they can sell future programs better to the government.  It really is that bald.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

GW Johnson

Member

From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,783

Website

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Starliner made a reportedly pinpoint landing.  I expect it may fly with a crew late this year.  Once that is done,  it will most likely begin to make "regular" crew service flights.  They've got the experimental crewed flight to finish cleaning up the remaining supposedly-minor troubles. 

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

NASA, Boeing target April for manned Starliner test flight

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,783

Website

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

I hope it works!  I don't want to see anybody fail,  especially with manned flights!

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

NASA, Boeing target April for manned Starliner test flight

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA … t_999.html

NASA and Boeing said Friday they aim to launch the first manned test flight mission of the CST-100 Starliner to the International Space Station in April.

The long-awaited Starliner, described as the "next generation" spacecraft has been highly anticipated to add a needed transportation option to the orbiting laboratory, along with other missions. The launch had been planned for February after being pushed back from last fall.

Steve Stich, manager, of NASA's Commercial Crew Program, acknowledged at a joint news conference that several things will have to fall into place to keep that time frame.

Two dockings are scheduled to take place at the space station ahead of the Starliner, he said. Anticipating those go well, there are still Earth-bound challenges such as the weather.

"We still have a pretty good plan [for launch] and we're sticking to it," said Mark Nappi, vice president and program manager at Boeing. "We look at five different areas to judge our progress and measure ourselves."

He said those areas include hardware, software, mission operation and engineering products. He said many of the areas are in their final stages.

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

First crewed Starliner launch slips again

https://spacenews.com/first-crewed-star … ips-again/

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

NASA delays flight of Boeing’s Starliner again, this time for parachutes

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03 … arachutes/

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,783

Website

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

From CBS News website 3-30-2023,  excerpt,  not the full article:

The first piloted flight of Boeing's Starliner astronaut ferry ship is slipping from late April to at least July 21, officials said Wednesday, to allow more time to close out paperwork and to carry out an additional test of the spacecraft's parachute deploy system.

My take on this:

I have to wonder about Boeing management’s planning that allows a vehicle to go unmanned to ISS,  and yet several months later still has not done all the tests and paperwork,  in order to be on time for a planned final manned flight test of ostensibly the very same configuration.  That reeks of incompetence of the “we-just-don’t-care” type.  Reading between the lines,  I think even NASA is getting unhappy with Boeing,  and NASA is evidently quite desperate to have this thing flying.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Boeing's Starliner Crewed Flight To ISS Targets Mid-April Liftoff, NASA Reveals

over priced contract that has yet to be fore filled.

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Starliner is officially packed for the upcoming Crew Flight Test. Its cargo includes essential items for Butch Wilmore and at Astro_Suni
, along with commemorative coins, at NASA
Silver Snoopy pins and student-made artwork from around the world.
https://twitter.com/BoeingSpace/status/ … 6390048982

Troubled Boeing Is Going to Launch the Starliner Spaceship in April
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/trou … 29629.html

Media Advisory - Launch of Boeing's Starliner crew flight test: Media accreditation
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/media … 00603.html
Media are invited to Johnson Space Centre in Houston, Texas to cover the launch of NASA's Boeing Crew Flight Test

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,783

Website

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

I hope it succeeds,  but I do not expect perfection from Boeing anymore.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

NASA and Boeing prepare for Starliner crewed test flight in May

https://spacenews.com/nasa-and-boeing-p … ht-in-may/

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

another article

Boeing, NASA target May 1 for first crewed flight of Starliner to the space station
https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/03/26/b … e-station/

The capsule will launch atop a United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas 5 rocket from Space Launch Complex 41 (SLC-41) at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station. Liftoff on May 1 would be at 12:55 a.m. ET (1655 UTC) with docking taking place on May 2.

Right now, the Starliner spacecraft is being fueled at Boeing’s facilities at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Around April 10, they plan to roll the vehicle out to the pad at SLC-41 to be mated with the Atlas 5 rocket.

Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,445

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

I'm hoping that this is a successful flight--primarily for the crew onboard. This may be the ONLY flight of this troubled vehicle....

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,783

Website

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Hi Oldfart1939:

I'm with you,  I hope the flight succeeds and the crew returns safely.  It's very much been a troubled vehicle,  as you said.  Appears to have had even more flaws than Apollo did leading up to the fire.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Coming soon Boeing’s Starliner is about to launch − if successful, the test represents an important milestone for commercial spaceflight

Maybe the sleeping giant has awakened but so far it has not.

Oldfart1939

Member

Registered: 2016-11-26

Posts: 2,445

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

The 3rd competitor, Sierra Space, is preparing their Dreamliner for it's first flight later this year as well! Blue Origin needs to get their New Glenn flying, too!

Last edited by Oldfart1939 (2024-05-02 14:30:59)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

Launch appears to be a go Boeing Starliner spacecraft 'go' for 1st astronaut launch on May 6, NASA says

CAPE CANAVERAL, FLORIDA — The new Starliner spacecraft is "go" for its first-ever astronaut launch on Monday (May 6), Boeing and NASA officials announced today (May 3).

Barring bad weather or any last-minute technical issues, Starliner was cleared to send two veteran NASA astronauts and former U.S. Navy test pilots to the International Space Station (ISS). On board this mission, known as Crew Flight Test (CFT), will be commander Barry "Butch" Wilmore and pilot Suni Williams.

The duo are completing last-minute training items and quarantining here at NASA's Kennedy Space Center ahead of their historic liftoff, which is scheduled for Mondauy at 10:34 p.m. EDT (0234 GMT on Tuesday, May 7) from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station. Coverage will run live here on Space.com, via NASA Television.

"We had the launch readiness review, and everyone polled 'go' to proceed," Steve Stich, manager of NASA's Commercial Crew Program, said during a press conference today.

CFT will not only be the first time that Boeing's Starliner carries astronauts, but also the first time that United Launch Alliance's (ULA) Atlas V rocket takes on that task. Rollout of the stacked rocket will take place tomorrow (May 4).

Pending the success of CFT, Boeing will join SpaceX in sending operational, six-month-long crewed missions to the ISS. Both companies received commercial crew contracts from NASA in 2014, with Boeing's valued at $4.2 billion back then, compared to SpaceX's $2.6 billion.
SpaceX has since launched 12 crewed missions to the ISS, including a test flight in 2020, while Starliner's first crewed effort has been delayed by several issues. The Boeing vehicle's first uncrewed flight to the ISS, which launched in December 2019, failed to reach its destination due to technical glitches. The pandemic, and the need to address the issues that arose on that first flight, delayed Starliner's second uncrewed test flight until May 2022. That effort was successful, reaching the ISS and meeting all of its other major objectives.

CFT was then slated to launch in 2023 — until more critical issues were uncovered, such as problems with the capsule's main parachutes and flammable tape on the capsule's wiring. These issues are behind the team, everyone has emphasized, and CFT is ready to go. If this first astronaut flight goes well, the debut operational crewed mission of Starliner should follow in 2025.

NASA and Boeing teams conducted a flight readiness review for CFT last week. That analysis identified two issues that required more attention: a valve needed to be replaced at the launch pad, and engineers wanted to further study contingency scenarios for the jettisoning of Starliner's forward heat shield during reentry to Earth's atmosphere.

That work has now been completed to the teams' satisfaction, Stich said today.

Related: 1st Boeing Starliner astronauts are ready to launch to the ISS for NASA (exclusive)

Starliner-1, the capsule's first operational mission, is slated to send three astronauts to the ISS: NASA's Mike Fincke (who is also serving as a CFT backup astronaut), alongside NASA's Scott Tingle and the Canadian Space Agency's Joshua Kutryk.

But that is pending the success of CFT, which will see Williams and Wilmore take manual control of the spacecraft numerous times, test emergency procedures for power-up and communications, and otherwise put the Starliner spacecraft through its paces for future missions.

The vision from NASA is for SpaceX's Dragon, Starliner and Russia's Soyuz spacecraft to continue sending astronaut crews to the ISS for the next several years. A selection of NASA astronauts continue to use Soyuz for policy and backup reasons, and Russia has committed to sending crews aloft until at least 2028.

While Starliner is not manifested for private missions yet, Boeing will fulfill something like six or seven missions for NASA during the nominal lifetime of ISS to 2030. A handful of private space stations are in the works, so there may still be destinations for Starliner, Dragon and Soyuz after the ISS retires.

Sad that it took so long for the company to get its act together....

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Boeing Starliner OFT-2

a video from 2017, new spacesuits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tyJGC0n4M

in other threads on Moon, Stations and Mars exploration, here has been discussion of needs to design new Bio Suit, movement and comfort, station EVA, fabrics that can change from loose to tight elastic, a suit for Martian environment, not having one garment do everything.