Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

Antius · 2016-04-08 08:33:00

SpaceNut wrote:

About 2 percent of the soil on the surface of Mars is made up of water of if you heat up a cubic foot of Mars soil, you can harvest around two pints (one liter) of water with Earth having more than 10 times that amount.
Of course any dome made of a frozen soil needs to be sealed and insulated from the warming interior that Humans would create inside it. That said the outside would also need a sealant to keep that warming water from subliming away while in the days sunlight to keep it solid of which I would make the outer sealant white colored in order to reflect the heat from being obsorbed by the darker soil color.

Compressed soil blocks are created by compressing a mixture of clay, silt and sand into a mould at a pressure of 15MPa. The starting material is usually about 10% water for best results and the resulting blocks have strength up to about 13MPa, which is comparable to fired clay bricks. They can be moulded into practically any shape, including hollow hexagonal blocks such as those discussed for the transparent soil dome. By comparison, adobe mud bricks are less dense and typical strength is 1-2MPa. But they require less capital equipment to produce.

Tom Kalbfus · 2016-04-08 21:59:01

SpaceNut wrote:

About 2 percent of the soil on the surface of Mars is made up of water of if you heat up a cubic foot of Mars soil, you can harvest around two pints (one liter) of water with Earth having more than 10 times that amount.
Of course any dome made of a frozen soil needs to be sealed and insulated from the warming interior that Humans would create inside it. That said the outside would also need a sealant to keep that warming water from subliming away while in the days sunlight to keep it solid of which I would make the outer sealant white colored in order to reflect the heat from being obsorbed by the darker soil color.

The heat from the dome would probably be quickly conducted away by the ground. The average temperature deep under ground will be below freezing. The ground will be warm at the surface under the dome, but as you move further and further away from the dome underground, then it will get colder. I guess the trick is for the spreading heat to get to the point where it is below the freezing point of water as it gets close to the surface outside the dome., so the ice underground prevents the leakage of liquid water through the surface, and also the air from sifting through the regolith under pressure from under the dome to the outside. I think some atmospheric gases will inevitably escape to the outside, but the trick is keeping this leakage rate to manageable levels.

SpaceNut · 2016-11-12 22:20:45

fixed shifting in topic....

bumping topic as we have begun to talk materials

SpaceNut · 2020-08-20 18:57:06

wow missed a few on page 1 of topic....
but we can say that materials are just as important as to the shape of the habitat that we can make with them.

SpaceNut · 2021-11-24 17:29:03

Elon Musk Says We Need to Live in Glass Domes Before We Can Terraform Mars to support life, like Earth.” cb32eee22c4e41bd2b9150940b6e39e9

Musk, as has been well established, wants to realize his dream of making humans a multiplanetary species and build the first colony on Mars by 2050. To make the Red Planet habitable for life,
This isn’t the first time Musk has mentioned using glass domes as habitats on the Red Planet. In a 2016 Reddit AMA, Musk said glass panes with carbon fiber frames could be used to build geodesic domes on the Martian surface, while mining droids could build pressurized caves underground for industrial operations.

louis · 2021-11-24 19:44:09

Has he properly assessed the radiation risk? I doubt it...

I mean you might be able to have a smal dome with heavy, very thick glass panels but I doubt you could have a large one supporting such a mass, although I guess it will be a lot easier on Mars with its much lower G.

I think the gallery idea (proposed by someone here a while back) is probably better where you create a large space, maybe something like 40-60 foot deep with a well protected narrow glass roof would be better. (It's similar to my pressurised gorge idea for creating quasi-natural leisure spaces - Earth-like Environments.) The idea is you would then build houses, shops, offices, small parks and exercise areas and so on within the gallery space. This would mean there was extra protection against radiation. But there would be space to grow indoor trees, grass and so on. Supplementary artificial lighting would be required.

SpaceNut wrote:

Elon Musk Says We Need to Live in Glass Domes Before We Can Terraform Mars to support life, like Earth.”https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/eIzUQO66qVpz6xX_aW.YeQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTcwNTtoPTM1NDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/hThTdgT0ZwPUFc1afWSwuQ--~B/aD03MjM7dz0xNDQwO2FwcGlkPXl0YWNoeW9u/https://media.zenfs.com/en/hearst_mens_health_171/cb32eee22c4e41bd2b9150940b6e39e9
Musk, as has been well established, wants to realize his dream of making humans a multiplanetary species and build the first colony on Mars by 2050. To make the Red Planet habitable for life,
This isn’t the first time Musk has mentioned using glass domes as habitats on the Red Planet. In a 2016 Reddit AMA, Musk said glass panes with carbon fiber frames could be used to build geodesic domes on the Martian surface, while mining droids could build pressurized caves underground for industrial operations.

SpaceNut · 2021-11-24 20:21:44

I think some of the glass will have coatings while others will be made with lead and other such techniques to make it durable and capable of shielding. It will not be a single layer glass system but multiple with safety plastic sandwiched between some of the panes. Metal frames would be used to space the glass panes with atmospheric gaps to allow for relieving the pressure changes from inside the dome to the outside.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-01 17:36:07

A vision on Mars from fictional tv show

Why ‘For All Mankind’ creator Ron Moore dreamed up a clean, nuclear future
https://www.latimes.com/environment/new … ling-point

Notes from Mars 160: The Space Architecture of Yusuke Murakami
https://www.space.com/34963-mars-160-si … cture.html

Space Travel Troubles By Neil deGrasse Tyson
Natural History Magazine
September 1998
Published under the title “Space, You Can’t Get There From Here.”
https://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson … oubles.php
'The only things standing between us and interstellar travel are politics and money—and the need to travel at the speed of light.'

'the first self-sufficient and sustainable city on mars could house one million humans'
https://www.designboom.com/architecture … 3-22-2021/

ABIBOO studio has led the architectural design of a self-sufficient and sustainable city on mars that could house one million humans. ‘nüwa’ forms part of an exhaustive scientific work for a competition organized by the mars society, and fully developed by the SONet network, an international team of scientists and academics led by astrophysicist guillem anglada, who headed the discovery of exoplanet proxima-b. considering the atmospheric conditions, ABIBOO chose the side of a cliff on mars to build a vertical city, with the design and construction systems a result of the planet’s harsh conditions. ‘if we were to construct the buildings as on earth, the buildings would tend to explode from the pressure,’ says alfredo muñoz, founder of ABIBOO. ‘the solar and gamma radiation on mars forced us to build spaces that are not directly exposed to the sky.’

and

‘nüwa’ sits on the slope of one of the martian cliffs with abundant water access, with a steep terrain offering the opportunity to create a vertical city inserted into the rock, protected from radiation and exposed to indirect sunlight. ‘macro-buildings’ are excavations inside the rock of the cliff — implemented after tunneling, they are modular and include residential and work activities, linked together by a three-dimensional network of tunnels.

What it was like to pretend to live on Mars inside a dome for a year
https://mashable.com/video/mars-dome-hawaii
The dome is in Hawaii.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-07-02 05:26:15

Problem and Opportunity

https://www.humanmars.net/2023/06/spher … ny-by.html

Spherical underground Mars colony by Michel Lamontagne

The dome for such a structure should have heavy anchoring deep underground. But there is a much simpler solution - a spherical hermetic structure mostly underground where only the tip of the sphere (visible as a dome) is located above the ground level. Sphere is the strongest geometric shape for containing internal pressure and the structure can be kept in place by the mass put inside the sphere.
Canadian design engineer Michel Lamontagne has created two concept drawings for such a colony where there is only a domed park above the ground level and all the rest of the colony is located below the ground level with a vertical central opening for natural lighting:

Calliban · 2023-09-14 13:12:23

A cob house built within a dome in arctic Norway.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NGDr3Xrv0Ko

Perhaps this could be a model for future housing units on Mars?

This dome looks to be about 15m in diameter. That is enough for a house and a modest sized garden. Whilst the dome itself was expensive, it fully protects the house from the wind and rain. The family were able to build the house from clay, straw and reclaimed wood, without having to worry about damp. The same would be true on Mars. The cost of the dome can be offset if the house inside is made from stone, mud brick and mud mortar. Without much in the way of soil moisture, there would be nothing to threaten the integrity of the house. The roof could be a cob or mud brick dome. It could be made deliberately thick to shield the interior from cosmic rays. Roof space can also serve as a potted garden and sitting area, so long as loads are controlled.

On Mars, domed houses like this would probably need supplemental heat, in addition to power, water and additional oxygen. The water would be heavily recycled. Transpiration would condense on the skin of the dome and run into gutters, draining into tanks for watering. Human waste woukd be broken down by anaerobic digestion, with methane being stored outside of the main dome and used for cooking. Plants within the dome would partially recycle the CO2 excreted into the air. If domed houses like this were built on large estates, each on say a 15m x 15m plot, then heat can be provided as piped hot water. A steel pipe would carry warm water from the base nuclear powerplant. The heat main would be laid in a shallow trench, with fine regolith piled over it to provide insulation. Electric power would be delivered by transmission lines, much as it is on Earth. One option worth considering is to provide mechanical power using hydraulics, with additional minor electrical needs met by offgrid solar PV. This avoids the need for electrical transmission and allows each house to operate on low voltage DC.

On Mars, the solid plexiglass dome would need to surround a pressure containing inner dome. This would be a UV resistant polymer, which would transfer load to a net of basalt fibers. The net would in turn transfer load to long steel piles, that are sunk into deep boreholes in the ground and anchored in place with injected concrete. Each house will have an air lock connecting it to the outside. This would be an underground trench structure, allowing atmospheric pressure to be balanced against static soil pressure.

One way of controlling cost would be to build thousands of these houses to a common design, with a high degree of automation. The domes wouod quickly become a mass produced product. The clay structure could actually be injected into moulds that are reused over and over. In this way, the pressure dome and basic structure of the house could be finished within a day. Interior furnishings, plumbing, electrics, floor tiles, etc, would take much longer. But all can be installed in a warm pressurised environment, probably by DIY. So houses like this could ultimately be built quite cheaply on Mars.

In the UK, a large terrace house has average floor area of 1087 sq.ft or about 100m2. Assuming the house is at the centre of the dome, there is just enough space under a 15m diameter dome for a 3 storey house. So the footprint of the house would be less than 20% of the enclosed area of the dome, allowing plenty of space for a vegetable garden and some planted trees. Alternatively, a larger house could be built without sacrificing garden space if roof gardens were made.
https://www.dwh.co.uk/advice-and-inspir … -sizes-uk/

Last edited by Calliban (2023-09-14 14:26:05)

tahanson43206 · 2025-11-21 09:56:15

This topic is from 2002 .... I started reading it from the top, and left off in the first section of four, with hopes of finding time to return.

In reading this I see that most members were thinking about fabric inflatable domes, using Dr. Zubrin's book as a reference.

In 2025, all these years later, Calliban is talking about what I think is a much more practical dome made of brick with regolith boundary for stability against pressure and for radiation shielding.

I was happy to see the 2002 contributors thinking about bedrock. One participant offered the opinion that the surface of Mars may be equivalent to what we on Earth consider bedrock. I am skeptical about that, but there may be some data somewhere to support the opinion.

In any case, this topic started out in a serious way, and it may have continued at that level for some time.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2025-11-21 17:33:04

Seem the crash of 2005 took out quite a few posts with the following one for 2008 through 2011 until we got James for administrator.

SpaceNut · 2025-11-29 17:38:54

A brick parabolic dome of 200 m diameter to cap or top of a structure on Earth. With no defined information for how high.

A 200-meter parabolic dome is a feasible, albeit massive, engineering structure typically constructed using reinforced concrete or steel, not solely with brick. The maximum span for domes made primarily of traditional brick is much smaller, such as the 45.5-meter dome of the Florence Cathedral.
Engineering and Construction
Modern, large-span domes and dishes (parabolic, in section) in the 200-meter range are designed as lightweight, strong structures and utilize modern engineering materials and techniques:
Materials Structures of this size are commonly built with materials like reinforced concrete or steel. Reinforced concrete domes are often designed as thin shells, which distribute stress efficiently across the structure.
Parabolic Shape The parabolic or funicular (curve of a hanging chain, which when inverted is a stable arch or dome shape) form is highly efficient for distributing weight and handling various loads.
Large-Scale Examples
The CNIT Exhibition Hall in Paris features six intersecting double-shell parabolic vaults spanning 216 meters, a structure made of reinforced concrete with supports only at the apexes.
The 200-inch (approx. 5-meter) Hale telescope at Palomar used the largest single piece of glass ever made for its parabolic dish, demonstrating the use of specialized materials for specific functions.
Modern large dishes, such as those used for amateur radio or scientific listening, use lightweight materials like aluminum mesh.
Brick Limitations
While incredibly durable and strong in compression, traditional brick construction for domes has span limitations due to the material's properties and construction logistics:
Span The largest known brick dome, the Florence Cathedral dome, has a diameter of 45.5 meters.
Method Historical brick domes were built without scaffolding by using advanced techniques like the opus spicatum (herringbone) pattern and relying on the dome's self-supporting geometry during construction.
Modern Use Today, brick is primarily used as a finish or in smaller-scale architectural features, such as pizza ovens or custom house domes, rather than for the primary load-bearing structure of a 200-meter span.
In summary, a 200-meter parabolic structure is a feat of modern engineering using concrete or steel, far exceeding the scale and material capabilities of traditional brick construction methods for the primary load-bearing shell.

Now for Mars

Building a 200-meter parabolic dome or dish on Mars using bricks made from local materials is a concept found in theoretical discussions and architectural design challenges, but not in current, active construction plans. The primary challenges involve logistics, construction methods, and material properties in the harsh Martian environment.
Feasibility and Concepts
Material Sourcing:
Researchers have developed methods to create "space bricks" or "astrocrete" by mixing Martian regolith (soil) with binding agents like bacteria or a protein found in human waste (urea), which makes strong, concrete-like materials. This would allow materials to be sourced on-site, a significant advantage given the cost of transporting materials from Earth (estimated at nearly $2 million per brick).
Construction Logistics:
Traditional bricklaying by suited astronauts is considered highly unrealistic due to the difficulty of working in the Martian atmosphere. Proposed solutions often involve highly automated systems:
Robotic Construction:
Automated robots could follow a spiral path to lay bricks and compact layers of regolith, which is an elegant solution to the construction logistics challenge.
3D Printing:
The most common approach in recent habitat design competitions is additive manufacturing (3D printing) using local soil to build structures autonomously before humans arrive.
Purpose:
A 200m dome or dish on Mars could serve various purposes in theoretical designs, such as:
Habitats/Public Spaces: Providing large internal volumes for living quarters, parks, or agricultural areas.
Radiation Shielding:
Thick layers of regolith or ice, often integrated into the dome design, are necessary to protect occupants from galactic cosmic rays and solar radiation, which transparent domes alone cannot do effectively.
Key Design Considerations
Radiation Protection:
The primary design driver for any long-term Mars habitat is robust radiation shielding. Domes are often envisioned with thick outer shells of packed regolith or water ice (an excellent shield) built over an inner pressurized structure.
Structural Integrity:
The low Martian gravity (38% of Earth's) is an advantage for building large structures, but the internal air pressure required for human life exerts a significant outward force that must be countered by the structure's mass or design.
Size:
A 200-meter dome is a significant engineering challenge, but within the realm of theoretical feasibility in large-scale Mars colony concepts.
In summary, while the idea of a large, brick-built structure is purely conceptual at this stage, it leverages promising research into using Martian resources for future settlement, focusing on automated construction methods rather than manual labo

With out an inner support structure of metals it seems not as easy to do.

SpaceNut · 2025-11-29 17:43:27

Open-pit mines commonly use a spiral haul road system to move material from the pit bottom to the surface. A road width of 5 meters is narrow for typical large-scale mines, which often require widths of 3.5 times the largest truck's width for safety, but it is feasible for smaller operations using smaller equipment.
Design Considerations for a 200m Deep Spiral Pit
The design of a spiral haul road system in a 200m deep open-pit mine involves a balance of safety, operational efficiency, and geotechnical stability.
Road Width (5m):
This width suggests the use of relatively small mining trucks, potentially in a single-lane configuration with occasional passing areas. Typical primary two-way haul roads can be much wider (e.g., 20m or more) to accommodate large capacity trucks. The narrow width would necessitate strict traffic management protocols.
Pit Depth (200m):
This is a moderate depth for an open-pit mine, with much deeper mines existing globally. The depth influences the overall pit slope angle and the total length of the spiral road required to maintain a safe gradient.
Haul Road Gradient:
To ensure safe and efficient truck haulage, the road gradient (slope) is a crucial design parameter. Gradients are typically kept between 8% and 10% (around 4.5 to 5.7 degrees) to manage braking capacity and speed. A constant, gentle gradient allows for a smooth spiral descent.
Berms and Benches:
The open-pit walls are terraced with horizontal ledges called berms, which enhance slope stability and catch falling rock. The road itself can be incorporated into these bench designs.
Radius of Curvature:
The spiral design must incorporate suitable turning radii to accommodate the specific mining equipment (trucks) being used, as sharp curves can slow operations and pose safety risks.
Visual Examples
Below are images illustrating the typical geometric layout and scale of open-pit mines with spiral haul roads:

Now for Mars

he design of an open-pit mining spiral for Mars requires considering the planet's lower gravity, atmospheric conditions, and soil/rock mechanics. Conventional terrestrial mine design principles would need significant modification to account for the Martian environment.
Key considerations for a 200 m deep open-pit mine with a 5 m wide road on Mars include:
Slope Stability:
With Martian gravity being approximately 38% of Earth's, the effective weight of the rock is less. This allows for steeper pit wall angles than on Earth, which could make a 200 m depth more efficient in terms of excavated waste material relative to ore access. Geotechnical studies would be critical to determine the maximum stable angle for the specific Martian regolith or rock type.
Road Design:
A 5 m wide road is relatively standard for single-lane industrial traffic. The slope (gradient) of the spiral road would be a primary design factor. On Earth, a 2% slope is common for heavy rail systems, but haul trucks in mines can handle steeper grades (up to 8-10%).
Excavation and Haulage:
The equipment used for excavation and material transport (haulage) would need to be specifically designed or modified for low-gravity, low-atmosphere operations.
Environmental Factors:
The near-vacuum atmosphere (about 1% of Earth's atmospheric pressure), extreme temperatures, and pervasive dust storms would require specialized, sealed, and possibly autonomous, machinery.
Automation:
Due to the harsh conditions, the mine is likely to be operated by remote or autonomous systems, as is being explored with current Mars rovers.
Resource Identification:
The design assumes a valuable resource is present. Missions such as the Mars Orbiter for Resources, Ices, and Environments (MORIE) are concept studies focused on identifying and quantifying potential resources like water ice, which could be critical for an off-world colony.
In summary, a 200 m deep open-pit spiral mine on Mars is a feasible engineering concept that would leverage the planet's unique gravity and environmental conditions to potentially create a more efficient mine design compared to terrestrial equivalents. The specific design would rely on detailed data about the local geology.

SpaceNut · 2025-11-29 19:15:11

I do not know why you are hand waving on the parabolic dome as its only 1/4 parabolic as an arch around a circle.
https://byjus.com/maths/standard-equations-of-parabola/

The parabolic curve equation depends on its orientation, with the two main standard forms being $(x-h)^{2}=4p(y-k)$ for a vertical parabola and $(y-k)^{2}=4p(x-h)$ for a horizontal parabola. In these equations, $(h,k)$ is the vertex, and $p$ is the distance from the vertex to the focus. The sign of $4p$ determines the direction the parabola opens. This video provides a step-by-step guide to writing equations for parabolas:
Vertical parabola: $(x-h)^{2}=4p(y-k)$ Opens upward: If $p>0$ (or $4p$ is positive).Opens downward: If $p<0$ (or $4p$ is negative).Axis of symmetry: $x=h$.Focus: $(h,k+p)$.Directrix: $y=k-p$. Horizontal parabola: $(y-k)^{2}=4p(x-h)$ Opens to the right: If $p>0$.Opens to the left: If $p<0$.Axis of symmetry: $y=k$.Focus: $(h+p,k)$.Directrix: $x=h-p$.
Simplified form (vertex at the origin) When the vertex $(h,k)$ is at the origin $(0,0)$, the equations simplify: Vertical parabola: $x^{2}=4py$.Horizontal parabola: $y^{2}=4px$. The graph of a quadratic equation is a parabola.If "a" is positive, the parabola will open up (smile). If "a" is negative, the parabola will open down (frown). If the absolute va...Amarillo CollegeParabolasThe parabola opens upwards or to the right if the \begin{align*}4p\end{align*} is positive. The parabola opens down or to the left...CK-12 FoundationFind the Equation of a Parabola Given Focus and Vertex and Graphso it's going to be y -1 which is like y + 1^ 2ar equals 4 p * x - h which h is 2. and then 4 * this distance p which is 2 the dis...YouTube

What is an open pit?

An open pit is a large-scale, surface-based mining excavation created by removing large quantities of rock and earth to access mineral deposits located near the surface. This method involves drilling, blasting, and hauling material in a series of tiered steps to extract resources like coal, copper, and iron ore. Open-pit mines are common because they are more economical than underground mining for large, near-surface deposits, though they have significant environmental impacts.
Key characteristics and processes
Surface excavation:
The primary feature is a large, open-air pit, which can be a hole in the ground or a section of a hilltop removed.
Stepped design:
To maintain stability and prevent rockfalls, the pit walls are not vertical but are instead stepped into a series of benches (flat surfaces) and batters (inclined walls).
Mining operations:
The process involves land clearing, topsoil stripping, drilling and blasting to break up rock, loading the material, and hauling it to stockpiles for processing.
Ore and waste:
The extracted material is sorted into ore (the valuable mineral deposit) and waste rock. Waste rock is piled up in designated areas, often in a stepped manner, while the ore is transported for processing.
Advantages and disadvantages
Advantages:
Cost-effective:
It is a more economical method than underground mining for large deposits.
Efficiency:
It allows for quick and continuous access to mineral deposits.
Safety:
It eliminates some of the safety hazards associated with complex underground operations.
Equipment use:
It allows for the use of heavy and bulky machinery.
Disadvantages:
Environmental impact:
Open-pit mines can cause significant environmental damage, including deforestation, water contamination, and air pollution.
Land use:
They require large areas of land and can drastically alter the landscape.
Examples of open-pit mines
Bingham Canyon Mine, Utah:
One of the world's deepest open-pit mines, it has been in operation since 1906 and has yielded millions of tons of copper, gold, and other metals.
Rössing Mine, Namibia:
A large open-pit uranium mine that has been in operation since 1976

Aka mining for brick useable ore....

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#76 2016-04-08 08:33:00

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#77 2016-04-08 21:59:01

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#78 2016-11-12 22:20:45

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#79 2020-08-20 18:57:06

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#80 2021-11-24 17:29:03

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#81 2021-11-24 19:44:09

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#82 2021-11-24 20:21:44

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#83 2022-09-01 17:36:07

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#84 2023-07-02 05:26:15

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#85 2023-09-14 13:12:23

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#86 2025-11-21 09:56:15

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#87 2025-11-21 17:33:04

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#88 2025-11-29 17:38:54

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#89 2025-11-29 17:43:27

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

#90 2025-11-29 19:15:11

Re: Domed habitats... - ...size, materials, and more.

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