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For SpaceNut re supplies for expeditions ... https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 26#p234526
There is no need to ship supplies with the crew if you know where you are going in space.
That is certainly the case for the major objects.
All your non-perishable supplies can be shipped by slow space barge well ahead of the expedition with live crew.
Your return fuel and supplies can be shipped ahead as well.
It seems to me the mission planning that's gone on so far has been limited in imagination, and probably limited by budget.
PS ... have you looked at the OpenFOAM update? I tested the animation on a Chromebook and it worked fine.
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talking about cargo in a not so cargo topic seems out there.
Perishable food items are foods that will spoil, decay, or become unsafe to eat if not kept refrigerated or frozen, including meats, poultry, seafood, dairy products, eggs, cooked leftovers, and most fresh fruits and vegetables, especially those that are cut, chopped, or lack a hard outer skin.
Meat, Poultry, and Fish
Raw meats: such as ground beef, steaks, lamb, and pork.
Poultry, like fresh chicken, turkey, and duck.
Fish and seafood, including fresh fish, shrimp, lobster, and all types of shellfish.
Deli meats, which are processed and sliced.
Dairy and Eggs
Milk, cream, and yogurt.
Cheese, including soft and hard varieties.
Butter .
Eggs .
Fruits and Vegetables
Most fresh fruits and vegetables are perishable, particularly those without a hard skin like berries, tomatoes, and lettuce.
Cut or chopped produce, as this increases the rate of decay.
Cooked Foods and Leftovers
Any cooked leftovers, such as stews, cooked rice, and prepared meals.
Prepared salads: and other dishes containing perishable ingredients.
Other Perishables
Drinks with live bacteria, like some juices.
Sauces and dips: (like hummus, pesto, and sour cream), once opened.
Some baked goods, especially those with dairy or cream.
most are short life and even when frozen will not meet the needs.
Non-perishable food items are shelf-stable and do not require refrigeration, including canned goods (fruits, vegetables, meats, soups, beans), dried goods (rice, pasta, oats, dried fruit, nuts, seeds, jerky, dried beans), shelf-stable milk and juices, and pantry staples like peanut butter, honey, cooking oil, sugar, and crackers.
Canned & Pouched Foods
Proteins: Tuna, salmon, chicken, and beans.
Vegetables: Corn, green beans, carrots, and other vegetables.
Fruits: Peaches, pineapple, applesauce, and other fruits.
Soups & Stews: Meat-based, vegetable-based, and other ready-to-eat options.
Dried & Grains
Grains: Rice, oats, pasta, and couscous.
Legumes: Dried beans, lentils, and peas.
Snacks: Nuts, seeds, dried fruits (raisins, apricots), trail mix, jerky, and granola bars.
Pantry Staples
Spreads: Peanut butter, jelly, and other nut/seed butters.
Sweeteners & Sauces: Honey, sugar, syrup, and jarred pasta sauces.
Oils: Vegetable oil and other cooking oils.
Baking Ingredients: Pancake mix and powdered milk.
Beverages: Shelf-stable powdered milk, bottled water, and juice boxes.
Other Shelf-Stable Items Crackers and melba toast, Ready-to-eat meals (like MREs), and Hard candies
try to eat while on the journey if you have no supplies after these go bad, or if you need extra oxygen if the equipment fails. You need the safety net with you along the way or it a fail that you do not recover from.
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For SpaceNut ....
Re https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 33#p234533
It was good to see you went beyond the perishable items (which are unsuitable for an extended journey except for the send off)
All the items in the nonperishable list can be shipped years ahead of time.
Humans have centuries of experience (let alone thousands of years migrating out of Africa) planning for long journeys.
There are libraries of books on the subject.
Every human starts out knowing nothing about anything.
This forum is a good place for members to increase collective knowledge.
I keep hoping we might be able to build topics that someone would both enjoy reading, and benefit from reading.
if you are interested in serious meal planning, the folks supplying the ISS are a pretty good model.
My guess is that a crew headed to Mars is going to have menu choices that look a lot like what the ISS crews experience today.
And... bottom line ... I'll bet you'll find that most if not all of the menu planning for the iSS features items that can be shipped by barge to the Moon or Mars or wherever folks are going.
I don't see the point in guessing what would be a good idea, when we have so much history to draw upon to make good decisions.
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The meal packaging for ISS to have fresh meals means vaccumn packaging, frozen food and these all have lots of mass in the packaging.
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For SpaceNut re #3879
plus: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 52#p234552
Thanks for the item about pre-positioning! That is exactly what I'm talking about with the space barge. You were worried (might not be the right word) about needing more ships to support a trip to Mars, and I pointed out you only need ships for cargo that needs pressurization, such as humans. Almost all other supplies can be shipped on barges and shipped ahead of time, needing less propellant.
Your point about needing mass to preserve food seems to me to be reasonable, but I don't see how that fact changes anything. We use mass to preserve food on Earth.
I saw a line in one of your posts about there being no refrigerator? That seems ridiculous to me. Space itself provides 4 degrees Kelvin. Your problem isn't cooling... it's keeping items from freezing. If you need to keep frozen food frozen, ship them in the shade.
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passage was about food within living spaces which is the ISS.
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For SpaceNut re new Space Barge topic...
The new barge topic should have a decent chance of growth, because the shipping industry in space is surely going to be making massive use of barges in coming decades and certainly centuries.
Most goods do not need special protection during transit, and the ones that do can be shipped in suitable containers. The main requirements for space barges are loading so they can be pushed by space tugs, and communications equipment so their location is known at all times.
I'm hoping our members will find images showing what space barges might look like.
Pre-positioning supplies for a Mars expedition is the first application that comes to mind.
Refrigeration is obviously not a problem in space, because objects in shade are subject to cooling to 4 degrees Kelvin. The concern there will be to provide warmth to keep items from becoming too cold (assuming that is a problem).
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For SpaceNut re nice boost to the tide harvesting topic!
Thanks for adding examples of how tides have been harvested in the past.
If you have time and can find some images links, they would enhance the topic.
The larger scale examples you've described are the ones that dam the entire tidal flow, and then draw power from the impounded water when the ocean level recedes outside the wall. That kind of installation takes a significant investment, but it might potentially last for a number of years.
The smaller scale example might be a single turbine in the middle of a channel. Even that will take a significant investment, but that might be carried out by a company serving a city.
What I had in mind is something the size of a barge or a retired ocean going vessel, that could harvest power as it rises and falls with the tide. How to harvest energy from a rising and falling object is a question that enterprising NewMars members might be able to answer.
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For SpaceNut .... the sea coast of New Hampshire is all of 18 miles long!
Have you and the family ever been there?
The coast of New Hampshire is a roughly 18-mile stretch of Atlantic shoreline in its southeastern Seacoast region, known for its beaches, historic towns like Portsmouth, and coastal parks such as Odiorne Point State Park. You can see the coast by visiting popular locations like Hampton Beach State Park, Rye Harbor State Park, or the Seacoast Science Center, or by using the greatbay.org New Hampshire Coastal Access Map for specific points of interest.
How to see the New Hampshire Coast
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For SpaceNut re post about water wheels .... https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 64#p234764
Thanks for the interesting post, and for the images including the gif of the airfoil pontoons mounted paddle wheel.
That system would work as is in weather above freezing. It might work with a cover if a river freezes over, unless the river freezes solid.
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For SpaceNut re post about tidal power: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 05#p234805
Thanks for the reminder that the pontoon water wheel can work on a river that sees tides. I had been thinking of just rain water supply, but many rivers are influenced by tides, and the wheel can collect energy whichever way the river is running.
That said, you don't seem to be sold on the kind of tidal power that Calliban showed us. That kind seems more reliable to me than others. The tide fills a basin and recedes while the basin door remains closed. The result is a mass of water 5 feet or so above the low tide line. At that point, the five feet of head is what drives a power collection device. I am hoping we might find images of devices used to collect power in the olden days.
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For SpaceNut re activity on the forum...
Usually our daily activity is on the order of 18-20 posts. Yesterday we received 45 new posts.
I would be interested in seeing posts I missed, but we do not seem to have a search tool that can bring up posts for the past 24 hours, or between post ID's. The closed thing we have is the Active search tool, which show topics where activity occurred, but not the individual posts. It ** does ** show the most recent post in each topic, but not all the posts that might have occurred ahead of the one shown.
Are you aware of any additional tools for finding posts within a range?
I just thought of a way such a search might be conducted.
We ** can ** manually update the post ID in the lookup URL. For example, I see the URL above as I type this:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 07#p234807
The post reported in the Recruiting update for yesterday was 234769
To see that post, we might enter:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 69#p234769
Then, to see all the subsequent posts, we could manually update the URL.
However, ** now ** it occurred to me that a Python script could generate a list of URL's between two numbers.
That list could be pasted into a post and the member could simply click on each URL in turn. I'll work on that!
Update: The completed program is available in this post: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 16#p234816
Here is the output:]
python3 GenerateURLsV02.py
--- URL List Generator ---
Enter the STARTING Post ID (e.g., 31000): 234769
Enter the ENDING Post ID (e.g., 31005): 234807Successfully generated 39 URLs from PID 234769 to 234807:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 69#p234769
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 70#p234770
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 71#p234771
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 72#p234772
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 73#p234773
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 74#p234774
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 75#p234775
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 76#p234776
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 77#p234777
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 78#p234778
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 79#p234779
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 80#p234780
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 81#p234781
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 82#p234782
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 83#p234783
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 84#p234784
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 85#p234785
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 86#p234786
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 87#p234787
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 88#p234788
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 89#p234789
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 90#p234790
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 91#p234791
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 92#p234792
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 93#p234793
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 94#p234794
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 95#p234795
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 96#p234796
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 97#p234797
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 98#p234798
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 99#p234799
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 00#p234800
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 01#p234801
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 02#p234802
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 03#p234803
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 04#p234804
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 05#p234805
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 06#p234806
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 07#p234807
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here is the program method to get posts from a specific user text"https://newmars.com/forums/search.php?action=show_user_posts&user_id=916"text where the user id is the number on the end
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For SpaceNut re #3888
Thanks for the guidance on search by user! Interesting!
Here is an example I created to see if I could replicate your example:
http://newmars.com/forums/search.php?ac … _id=425154
If you look closely at the example I provided in Post #3887, we can see all members who posted over a fixed period of time.
My reason for investigating this was surprise at the sudden increases in posts from an average around 18 to 45 in a single day. It turned out there ** was ** activity that doubled the post count. It's just that the "active" list only shows topics where there was activity over the past 24 hours, and not all the posts that make up that activity.
FYI ... I am planning to invite the presenter at today's NSS meeting to consider a membership in the forum. The purpose would NOT be to interact with existing members, but that could happen. My idea is to create a venue where a rising star in the space business can communicate with others who might be interested in or supportive of their career.
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From the idex this morning here is the trend of new posts
Meta New Mars (New post) made in: Recruiting expertise for NewMars Forum topics:
Martian Politics and Economy (New Post) made in: Martian Calender - I have created a martian calender.
Science, Technology, and Astronomy (New Post) made in: Google Meet Collaboration - Meetings Plus Followup Discussion and in OpenFOAM
Of course a program that trools the forum and then updates the NewMars home page for whats being discussed might be a feature to add so others see what is being discussed. Nasa spaceFlight has such a side bar for its forum.
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For SpaceNut re summary of posts ...
Thanks for the tip about NASA SpaceFlight ...
That would be a fair amount of work, but with modern AI support we just might be able to pull off something like that ... a "daily recap" or similar...
***
FYI ... I sent an invitation to consider NewMars.com/forums to the presenter at the Saturday NSS meeting. The presentation was highly unusual. It was (in fact) unique in the history of NorthHoustonSpace.org ... The presenter built the entire talk around the theme of Mars habitats, using AI Generated artwork for the visual effects, and the challenges of composing queries for the content. That presentation could be laid out here in the forum with one post per image, with an opportunity for members to comment upon each post ... It would be a slow motion presentation that might play out over weeks if the members show interest in the presentation. It could be a model for other presentations as well.
Reminder ... the Mars Society convention has been underway and today is the last day of the 2025 event.
I've been too busy working on the extendedMerlin and other projects to visit the site to see what might be available there.
If you have time, please take a look to see if there is anything we might be able to pull into the forum in future days.
*** Hoping you were able to get your contractor to start work, or at least return the deposit.
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For SpaceNut re Daily Recapitulation of Forum Posts...
It occurred to me that the new tool I showed you could be adapted to the idea you posed, of offering a daily recap of posts.
I can generate a list of posts that have occurred each day.
You have Admin priviliges, which means you can update a post that I have created.
What this means is that if you are interested, and if you have the time, and most importantly, if you have the ** energy **, you could add notes to show what each post in the Daily Recap is about. Your input would be only one line...
Eg, SpaceNut on possible idea for daily recap
Just to get the process started, I'll create a new Daily Recap topic in Meta, and fill the third post with the links for the past period.
Here is is:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 36#p234836
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For SpaceNut re Daily Recap...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 61#p234861
Thanks for doing that impressive update! The Daily Recap really looks professional, thanks to the hard work you put in!
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For SpaceNut, kbd512 and RobertDyck....
We've enjoyed the benefit of an account on Azure for the past year or so. We used it to test our new forum software before kbd512 installed the updates at the Mars Society server.
Recently we discovered we could use the phpBB3 forum package on the Azure account to hold images for display on the FluxBB forum.
GW Johnson demonstrated the ability to carry out the steps needed, and he has posted at least one image link.
I have used the site to post several images.
SpaceNut, you put up a couple of images as well.
Now comes an email from Microsoft, informing me they are discontinuing the service we've been using, effective November 15, 2025.
I'm able to afford the monthly fee for the existing modest service, but am worried that the new pricing structure will be beyond my means.
I've asked kbd512 to take a look at the situation.
This post is just an FYI at this point.
I took a quick look at https://www.phpbb.com/
It appears that the forum software is being actively support. A new version 4.0 is under development.
We are using Version 3.3 in the Azure account, and from the looks of the offerings, 3.3 is stable and compatible with the Azure version.
Update for SpaceNut ... thinking big: Let's think about making an offer to Mr. Burk to host the entire conference? This would become possible if we decide to move the phpBB3 site from Azure to Mars Society. It would be necessary for Mars Society staff to work on setting up the structure, but it should be easy enough to build something permanent for the 2025 convention, and for all future ones. We can host text and like to images and to the YouTube videos.
That would give NewMars a mission that is better aligned with the Mars Society mission, and add value to our connection to the Society.
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I see that the free trial period is over and the cost will only rise since the government is going to make use of more of those Azure servers for cloud based systems from what I have heard.
As for the hosting the society that requires being able to set up equipment to process and not just be a buffer for the media coming from the convention.
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For SpaceNut re #3895
The free trial was over long ago. I have been paying the monthly fee ever since. The monthly fee was affordable.
I am concerned that with the new pricing structure, I'll not be able to continue.
What are you talking about with "equipment"
There is nothing required. We can host pictures. We can host text. What are you thinking of that we cannot provide?
***
Thanks for adding labels to today's Recap! They look great!
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