Nuclear Thermal Rocket

tahanson43206 · 2020-02-25 09:19:35

SpaceNut ... it would appear to be time to create a new topic devoted to Nuclear Thermal Rocket technology.

To my way of thinking they've always been a good idea, and I appreciate the US taxpayer money invested in developing them.

According to the article at the link below, the US armed forces include a few people who are attempting to bring the concept back.

I'm guessing the proposal is surfacing now because of increased interest in protecting space assets of the United States and its allies.

In any case, this topic is offered as a repository for links to historical references as well as to current developments.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nuclear-moon … 39441.html

(th)

RobertDyck · 2020-02-25 13:19:01

I'm sure this is part of President Donald Trump's "SPACE FORCE!"

Many people aren't aware that when JFK gave his speech to Congress in 1961 asking for funding to go to the Moon, part of that speech mandated development of nuclear rocketry. His "We choose to go to the Moon" speech to the public at Rice University in 1962 did not mention nuclear rockets.
National Archives: Moon Speech Quote from page 19...

Second, an additional $23 million, together with $7 million already will available, %or accelerate development of the ROVER nuclear rocket. This is a technological enterprise in which we are well on the way to striking progress, and which gives promise of some day providing a means for even more exciting and ambitious exploration of space, perhaps beyond the moon, perhaps to the very ends of the solar system itself.

From the Yahoo article...

But this isn’t the first time the U.S. government has tried to develop an atomic rocket. And there’s no guarantee the same problems that ended previous efforts won’t also scuttle this one.

NASA did successfully develop a working nuclear thermal rocket engine. What was called "ROVER" in 1961 because "NERVA". All ground testing was complete in 1974, all that was left was to test in space. I would like to blame it on Nixon, but Nerva Alpha was an upper stage approved in 1972, intended to launch from the Space Shuttle in 1982. Propellant was slush hydrogen.

Astronautix: NERVA Alpha

Nuclear/LH2 propellant rocket stage. Nuclear stage designed to fit into the space shuttle payload bay. Additional propellant modules could be added in orbit. Such propellant modules would have a mass of 23,181 kg, including 21,265 kg of usable propellant. Given go-ahead in 1972, it would have been flight tested by 1982.
Status: Development 1972. Thrust: 71.70 kN (16,119 lbf). Gross mass: 17,783 kg (39,204 lb). Unfuelled mass: 4,969 kg (10,954 lb). Specific impulse: 860 s. Burn time: 1,500 s. Height: 18.29 m (60.00 ft). Diameter: 4.50 m (14.70 ft). Span: 4.50 m (14.70 ft).

Astronautix: NERVA Gamma

Nuclear/LH2 propellant rocket stage. Improved version of the Alpha nuclear stage designed to fit into the space shuttle payload bay. Additional propellant modules could be added in orbit. Such propellant modules would have a mass of 23,181 kg, including 21,265 kg of usable propellant. Given an Alpha engine development program, it would have been flight tested by 1984. In addition to propulsion, it would provide 10 to 25 MWe power for missions of two to five years duration.
Status: Development 1972. Thrust: 81.00 kN (18,209 lbf). Gross mass: 18,643 kg (41,100 lb). Unfuelled mass: 5,829 kg (12,850 lb). Specific impulse: 975 s. Burn time: 1,500 s. Height: 18.29 m (60.00 ft). Diameter: 4.50 m (14.70 ft). Span: 4.50 m (14.70 ft).

Astronautix: Nerva 2/NTR stage

Nuclear/LH2 propellant rocket stage. Design as revised in detail in 2005.
AKA: Nerva 2/NTR. Status: Study 1991. Thrust: 333.00 kN (74,861 lbf). Gross mass: 158,400 kg (349,200 lb). Unfuelled mass: 27,000 kg (59,000 lb). Specific impulse: 925 s. Burn time: 3,575 s. Height: 47.60 m (156.10 ft). Diameter: 10.00 m (32.00 ft). Span: 10.00 m (32.00 ft).

Astronautix: Timberwind 45

DoE nuclear/LH2 rocket stage. Development ended 1992. Used on Timberwind Centaur launch vehicle.
Status: Development ended 1992. Thrust: 441.00 kN (99,140 lbf). Gross mass: 28,000 kg (61,000 lb). Unfuelled mass: 7,500 kg (16,500 lb). Specific impulse: 1,000 s. Specific impulse sea level: 890 s. Burn time: 449 s. Height: 23.87 m (78.31 ft). Diameter: 4.25 m (13.94 ft). Span: 4.25 m (13.94 ft).
Thrust (sl): 392.800 kN (88,305 lbf). Thrust (sl): 40,050 kgf. Engine: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb). Thrust to Weight Ratio: 30.

Astronautix: Timberwind 75

DoE nuclear/LH2 rocket stage. Development ended 1992. Used on Timberwind Titan launch vehicle.
Status: Development ended 1992. Thrust: 2,206.00 kN (495,928 lbf). Gross mass: 110,000 kg (240,000 lb). Unfuelled mass: 28,500 kg (62,800 lb). Specific impulse: 1,000 s. Specific impulse sea level: 890 s. Burn time: 357 s. Height: 45.50 m (149.20 ft). Diameter: 6.10 m (20.00 ft). Span: 6.10 m (20.00 ft).
Thrust (sl): 654.600 kN (147,160 lbf). Thrust (sl): 66,750 kgf. Engine: 2,500 kg (5,500 lb). Thrust to Weight Ratio: 30.

tahanson43206 · 2020-02-25 18:35:00

For RobertDyck re #2

Thank you for this very nice addition to the topic!

For anyone who might be interested in the subject, there is at least one book on the subject, and there may well be more.

In addition, there are interviews on the Space Show which focus on the subject.

Just drop "dewar space show nuclear" into Google and a list of citations of interviews, books and videos will appear.

Dr. James A. Dewar does NOT have a citation in Wikipedia. There are a number of James Dewars in Wikipedia, including the inventor of the famous Dewar Flask for holding gases in a liquid state.

I was informed by the publisher of Dr. Dewar's book on Nuclear Thermal Rockets, that Dr. Dewar is no longer with us.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-02-25 18:36:02)

SpaceNut · 2020-02-25 18:45:54

Most of these are in the interplanetary folder in which that this one is in.
The sky is falling and the no nukes in space is why we are not using them more.
The fear that we are going to use it as a weapon....has been the inhibitor of high power levels that we need to have to survive as we get further out.

RobertDyck · 2020-02-25 22:57:10

SpaceNut wrote:

The sky is falling and the no nukes in space is why we are not using them more.
The fear that we are going to use it as a weapon....has been the inhibitor of high power levels that we need to have to survive as we get further out.

That argument excludes nuclear pulse propulsion, not nuclear thermal.

tahanson43206 · 2020-02-26 08:37:52

For SpaceNut .... you have a new topic to fill with useful content.

Links to discussion elsewhere in the forum archive could be useful.

I deliberately avoided previous mentions because every example I found in the archive was embedded in discussion of something else.

The purpose of ** this ** topic is to allow and to encourage focus on this (to my way of thinking) vitally important technology.

The human race ** has ** to not only USE but MASTER nuclear technology in order to progress, and in particular, to become an interplanetary species.

The temptations to behave badly which come with being human must be overcome.

Social norms are a tried and true means of raising trustworthy citizens, but they must be tended with great care for ** every ** baby born on Earth.

(th)

GW Johnson · 2020-02-26 09:17:44

David Budin's book on nuclear thermal rockets is probably the best and most realistic source on the status and results of solid core rocket technology. Because it is a first-person account! He is one of the last surviving engineers who actually did the work.

NERVA was tested quite thoroughly, and ready to flight test when everything was shut down. There were some proposed improvements to NERVA, based on those tests that were done. There were some related concepts proposed, such as Timberwind, but these did not get tested, so they are still unready to apply. They need testing before that can happen.

There is no doubt we need to resurrect and improve this technology. Along with both closed-cycle and open-cycle gas core technology, which never got beyond the concept stage. And nuclear pulse propulsion, which is what is required once you are serious about large-scale colonizations.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2020-02-26 09:19:12)

SpaceNut · 2020-02-26 18:24:40

This is just a small search on NTR
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5616
Design Reference Mission 5.0

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8327
Getting to Mars with REAL technology, & what's currently missing.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6177
Forget NTR, SEP is the Future

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8822
Best RCS propulsion for NTR spaceship

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8814
Single NTR vs. NTR cluster

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8756
Ion Neutralization Propulsion

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7182
Nuclear Ion Propulsion

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6941
600 seconds

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7914
A revival of interest in Nuclear Thermal Propulsion?

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7591
Glushko's RD600 Gas Core NTR

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4709
NSWRs

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6844
VASIMR - Solar Powered?

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7447
Nerva Rocket for Planetary transportation

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7482
Project Orion Mars Colony

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5841
Nuclear Thermal Rockets (NTR)

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7071
Gas core NTR in details

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7061
Steam nuclear rocket

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6991
Water/CO2 NERVA for Mars

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6101
Nuclear rocket

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3708
Project Orion

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5635
Nuclear Rockets

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4474
Bimodal Nuclear Thermal Rocket, VASIMR, MPD, & MTF Propulsio

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3877
Solid core NTR with thermoelectric cooling?

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2506
Nuclear Safe Trajectories?

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1951
Revisiting Project Orion - Article.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2436
Nuclear Propulsion - The best way for space travel

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1861
Nuclear struggle for NASA! - Nuclear flight for Manned flights.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2603
P&W's Nuclear engine... - Wowza article

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2553
Vasmir update??? - any new news??

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1975
The best application of nuclear power in H2M

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2151
Nuclear Thermal Rockets - should nuke rockets be used on a mars ms

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2619
Project Orion Revisited. - Why not an Earth Launch?

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2155
Project Orion. Worthy of a second look? - New Article at Spacedaily.

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1988
NASA eyes nuclear-powered rocket

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2480
Power Limits of Advanced Propulsion

tahanson43206 · 2020-02-26 18:30:21

For SpaceNut re #8

Awesome!

Thanks!

To forum readers .... If you have the time and energy, please add books you may have or know about to the example provided by RobertDyck above.

Please keep looking for news about any signs Nuclear Thermal Rockets may be receiving serious attention around the World. I would certainly expect both Russia and China to be hard at work on designs for these systems.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-02-26 20:12:01

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2593
What of VASIMR - Discuss this system

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2567
Nuclear Transfer Vehicle Design

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-03 14:41:22

Thanks to GW Johnson for the book citation given in Post#7

Here is a book citation from my collection:

The Nuclear Rocket
Making our Planet Green, Peaceful and Prosperous

James Dewar with Robert Bussard

ISBN 9781-894959-99-5
(c) Apogee Books/James Dewar

The publisher of Apogee Books informed me that Dr. James A. Dewar is no longer with us.

From the front cover:

James A Dewar worked exclusively on nuclear power issues in the Atomic Energy Commission and its successor agencies, the Energy Research and Development Administration and the Department of Energy.

He graduated from Augustana College in Rock Island, Illinois in 1966 with a BA, the University of Wisconsin in Madison, Wisconsin in 1968 with a MA and Kansas State University in Manhattan, Kansas in 1974 with the PhD. He began his government career and interest in nuclear rocketry in 1969 as a summer intern in NASA.

Edit#1: Amazon did not show this book, but eBay has two copies:

NUCLEAR ROCKET: MAKING OUR PLANET GREEN, PEACEFUL AND By James Dewar *BRAND NEW*
~ BRAND NEW!! Quick & Free Delivery in 2-14 days ~
Brand New
$35.95Buy It NowFree ShippingFree Returns
Watch
1 new & refurbished from $35.95

Edit#2: Searching Amazon for Buden revealed copies of Dewar:

6 new copies are available from $12.99 and 13 used copies from $15.05

Edit#2: Interviews of Dr. James A Dewar are available on www.thespaceshow.com

Broadcast 2598 sunday 06 Dec 2015

Broadcast 2426 Monday 02 Mar 2015

Broadcast 1711 Sunday 12 Feb 2012

Broadcast 1220 Tuesday 08 Sep 2009

Broadcast 895 Tuesday 19 Feb 2008

Broadcast 766 Monday 03 Sep 2007 <<== Dr. Dewar had just re-released his book: To the End of the Solar System: The Story of the Nuclear Rocket

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-03-03 14:59:06)

tahanson43206 · 2020-03-03 14:53:03

Following up on GW Johnson's mention of David Buden in Post #7 ...

Amazon shows two books by this author with similar titles:

Nuclear Thermal Propulsion Systems $9.95 Paperback

Space Nuclear Radioisotope Systems (Space Nuclear Propulsion and Power) $19.95 Paperback (15 used and new offers)

SpaceNut · 2020-11-08 21:54:08

bump another topic....

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2020-02-25 09:19:35

Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#2 2020-02-25 13:19:01

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#3 2020-02-25 18:35:00

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#4 2020-02-25 18:45:54

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#5 2020-02-25 22:57:10

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#6 2020-02-26 08:37:52

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#7 2020-02-26 09:17:44

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#8 2020-02-26 18:24:40

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#9 2020-02-26 18:30:21

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#10 2020-02-26 20:12:01

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#11 2020-03-03 14:41:22

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#12 2020-03-03 14:53:03

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

#13 2020-11-08 21:54:08

Re: Nuclear Thermal Rocket

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