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Hi SpaceNut ... thanks for the reminder.
Best wishes for a happy time with your family!
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For SpaceNut re post in Airlocks topic ... https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 03#p236503
Thanks for the link to that impressive paper from 2000!
Update: Overnight it occurred to me that your focus on airlock design, operation and maintenance for Mars might become the first step in a sequence leading to practical knowledge for life on Mars. We have practical ideas scattered all over the NewMars archive, but it is scattered among a great number of posts that are exploratory or speculative in nature.
As we enter 2026, we have an opportunity to follow your lead and begin to build a collection of Rules to Live on Mars by.
We also have the opportunity to seriously consider a new Category for the Dome project on Mars. If we decide to proceed with that, we have the potential to accumulate a set of data that a project manager could use to plan the entire operation. I expect it would take more than one Earth year to finish that effort.
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For SpaceNut .... Your new topic about garage/hanger volume looks promising. I don't think anyone will be able to fill such a volume with very expensive clean air. Clean air will be reserved for use in habitats, and inside sealed vehicles. I can't imagine anyone being able to afford to take the time to pump down a garage or hanger sized volume just to work on a vehicle.
I think it makes more sense to bring the vehicle into a volume where you can close the huge door and let dust settle to the floor.
Mechanical sweepers might be a way to collect the dust, because vacuums aren't going to work in the thin Mars atmosphere.
Ingenuity showed that large fans ** can ** work on Mars.
It might make sense to blow dust off of vehicles before driving them into a garage or hanger.
Humans may have experience performing maintenance in sand storms. It's not something I've heard much about.
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For SpaceNut .... thanks for the reminder of Data General!
I asked Google for a refresh, and it found a number of references...
Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rccMfdxMe1U
The comments section is filled with memories of people who worked with or on that system.
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You found the front runner to the modern PC in single card form. The had its own chip sets making the unit. They had a foundry out in Sunny vale California before the industry went over seas.
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For SpaceNut re Post #4030
Thanks for the link to the Data General article on Wikipedia.... That is a ** very ** interesting article...
My work environment did not include exposure to Data General, so I'm glad to have this opportunity to learn about that inspired group of people who spun off from Dec ... I am also interested to learn that you were part of that successful venture! I don't know if you noticed, but toward the bottom of the article, it was reported that the control panel of Data General may have inspired the front panel of the famous MITS Altair 8800, which I was able to acquire in it's original kit form.
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For SpaceNut ... re https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 44#p236544
The text you pasted about airlocks looks reasonable, but there are no references.
This forum needs to get in the habit of providing references for every post that might be assumed by a reader to be something other than an opinion.
I like the discussion about multiple stages of air locks. That looks really tedious to me.
The worry about contaminating Mars is understandable for an initial expedition.
It has nothing to do with Calliban's dome airlock. We aren't going to be worried about contamination of Mars.
You have already started discussion because you are (apparently) worried about CO in Mars atmosphere that might enter the habitat.
I have tried to encourage you to guide your AI to produce useful guidance on how to do that. The AI may have found some NASA documentation but I don't see that has much if anything to do with Calliban's dome.
You provided a problem to solve. Now please guide AI to find a solution.
You want to keep CO out of the habitat. Good! Let's do it.
And while you're at it, please keep delay short and inconvenience to the resident minimal.
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For SpaceNut re space suits post....
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 66#p236566
This forum does not support the gas mixture you showed us in this post.
That is a NASA idea.
It would help if you would make sure to point out to our readers that the idea of using Nitrogen in a suit at Mars is not accepted by this forum.
If you have forgotten all the work that went into arriving at this consensus, then you have a bit of reading ahead.
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For SpaceNut re challenges for settling Mars...
I thought of you when I ran across this video....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mjp7MDx_w
It seems to be designed to list all the problems that you might want to see listed all at once.
I watched only a bit of it ... just enough to decide it appears to be a serious attempt to understand the challenges of setting up shop on Mars.
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For SpaceNut ....
It is difficult to take a positive attitude when there are so many problems ahead of humans headed to Mars.
You've shown once again that the negative and difficulty are all that come to your mind when you think about Mars.
RobertDyck opened a topic that is intended to be full of hope and optimism, and which is designed to show exactly how to do the many tasks needed to grow food on Mars. Your first contribution is a list of problems to be overcome.
I'll quote the list and try to help you to understand how it comes across:
SpaceNut wrote:Not trying to be negative
Mars short list
1. no insitu food which means all must be brought and minimal ability to grow within the ship you come in
2. no breathable atmosphere, must be brought or insitu made if you have extra power and equipment
3. has minimal water and nothing free to draw from that is fresh or insitu made if you have extra power and equipment
4. minimal solar energy and lots of radiation with ships not designed for long term stay
5. no ship going back or to mars currently just future planning but you need to solve other issues first
6. Lacks materials other than insitu processed to make shelters from if you have extra power and equipment
7. mars has natural geological and mineral assets if you have extra power and equipment to make use of insitu sources
8. financing presently via government and not private
Item #1: You may not have read RobertDyck's post. He explicitly said that food must be grown before humans arrive to stay.
How did you miss that?
Here is what RobertDyck said in the opening post:
To put this in terms of Mars, a successful settlement must start producing food with the fist expedition.
Here's the rest of that key paragraph, because it contains the essence of the mission of this topic:
In 1496, fishermen returned to England at the end of each fishing season. A house was built in 1497 for a single caretaker to overwinter, to care for the camp. It was some years before people lived year-round. For Mars, first expeditions must build the first permanent buildings including a pressurized greenhouse to grow food. But the first few expeditions must return to Earth. Only after the base has been proven safe, with reliable food production, can permanent settlement be considered. Food production with absolutely no resupply from Earth must be established before we permanently settle Mars.
The topic is not the place to worry about all the challenges facing those who will build the first food production facility. We have plenty of other topics where you and others can worry about those issues. The topic RobertDyck created is where we NewMars members will build up a repository of knowledge about how to do whatever is needed. Your contribution is a list of challenges, but we already know about all the challenges. We don't need another list. We've had 20+ years (from 2001 I was reminded today) to think of all the challenges.
The opportunity for NewMars members is to think of all the answers that are needed to achieve RobertDyck's vision.
You've had since July of 2004 to think of every possible problem that humans might face in settling Mars.
It is past time to start working on solutions.
You are free to provide answers for any or all of the problems you've cited.
It is up to RobertDyck to decide, but ** I ** would vote for you being required to find a solution for each and every problem you've listed.
It's time (past time) to get moving on building up the knowledge, skill and resources to achieve the many subgoals of the Mars project.
Let's get moving!
We don't need more hand wringing. This forum has 24 years for hand wringing! We are about to enter 2026.
Let 2026 be the year of NewMars finding solutions to all those stacked up problems.
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I fixed my first negative with
Mars short list
1. no insitu food which means all must be brought and minimal ability to grow within the ship you come in which means outfitting the cargo ship with life support to stay plus modified for radiation protection
figured you will not have the equipment to build with due to funding of first mission.
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For SpaceNut ...; thanks for finding and posting historical references for discovery of Newfoundland!
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 26#p236626
The 1400's were an active time in European history. Those years led directly to Magellan's voyage around the world in 1519.
I followed that voyage day by day for three years, starting September 20, 2019. That "voyage" was supported by documentation from the time, and later history. Thus, I am one of the few people on Earth who know that the first human to circumnavigate the Earth is NOT Magellan or any European, but instead, the manservant Magellan took with him from his home in the Spice Islands.
From Wikipedia:
Key Details:
Start: September 20, 1519, from Sanlúcar de Barrameda, Spain, with five ships.
Goal: Find a western route to the Spice Islands (Moluccas).
Key Discoveries: The Strait of Magellan and the Pacific Ocean (which he named).
Magellan's Fate: Killed in the Philippines in April 1521.
Completion: The ship Victoria, under Elcano's command, returned to Spain in September 1522, with only 18 of the original 270+ crew.
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For SpaceNut .... thanks for setting up the new topic for dome heating!
That is a tightly focused topic that should attract valuable posts. Your opening post was a great start.
Estimated Wattage:
One conceptual design for a 250m diameter Mars habitat (Craterhab) lists a power input of 116 kW, though the exact shielding and internal conditions are not specified.
Your AI friend found "Craterhab" .... can you find out more about that?
It might deserve it's own topic if it is a substantial effort worth study.
Plus! The folks who working on "Craterhab" might be the kind of people we would want to attract to the "new" NewMars.
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Craterhab Technology (inflatable pressurized fabric domes)
https://www.mareekh.com/post/craterhab- … plications
https://www.mareekh.com/post/craterhab- … ltitude-mi
Craterhab is a concept for large, inflatable, pressurized dome habitats for humans on Mars, designed by Mareekh Dynamics, utilizing small Martian craters for structural support and volume, featuring a hexagonal framework, and incorporating an Active Integrated Radiation Shield (AIRS) to protect against space radiation, aiming for economical and practical settlement.
Key Features of Craterhab Technology:
Location: Built over small craters (50-500m diameter) to use the rim for anchoring and the crater's depth for extra space, reducing material needs.
Structure: A hemi-ellipsoid dome with a strong hexagonal skeletal framework, made from advanced fabrics.
Radiation Shielding: Includes an integrated, powered "Active Integrated Radiation Shield" (AIRS) within the fabric, potentially removing the need for heavy regolith shielding.
Cost-Effective: Designed to be manufactured and tested on Earth, reducing construction complexity and cost for Mars missions.
Versatile: Can also be built on flat surfaces or other planetary bodies like the Moon.
Developer:
Mareekh Dynamics: An organization that has patented this technology, focusing on practical, low-cost solutions for Martian habitation.
Significance:
Offers a potential solution for large-scale, safe, and sustainable human habitats on Mars, moving beyond cramped capsules or deep tunnels.
Emphasizes In-Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) principles for long-term surviva
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For SpaceNut re 4039 ... ** Very Nice! ** thanks for that report on Craterhab.
It's good to see that ambitious idea was given some attention. It might well prove valuable for study.
Calliban's Dome idea is similar in size and shape, and it seems to me that many of the associated challenges are similar.
The Craterhab folks are going to need that anchoring, because they have NO regolith piled on top (if I understand the concept correctly).
This concept may well deserve it's own topic at a minimum, and it's own Category if it is an ongoing effort.
This concept would seen more likely to receive funding earlier than will Calliban's dome, but Calliban's dome is obviously the better long term play.
PS ... please note the contact from one of the oldest chapters of NSS ... it goes back all the way to the L5 Society, and it was very likely one of the first chapters.
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For SpaceNut ... this member should not be "banned"...
Trebuchet
You were working on converting the banned folks to inactive.
If you have time, please resume that work.
Is there somethink kbd512 could do to help?
If he has time (always a question) ... he could write an SQL script that could convert banned ID's to InActive.
Then all you would have to do is to re-ban the few people who need to be banned.
FYI ... my spammer at the Image Server came back after I deleted the ID, so I banned that ID.
I'd hate to have to ban volunteer registrations altogether. I think the image server has potential to be a valuable resource to members.
I hope this entity will leave us alone.
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Done set to in active for user Trebuchet
Pulled the banned list (under 500() and noticed that there are still many with emails that are known spammers.
List user names starting with M towards Z
Looks like last converted ID Is TestID18375
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For SpaceNut ...re #4042 ... thanks for taking care of Trebuchet .... the name showed up in display of an older topic.
***
I have a question about your post (twice) https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 98#p236698
Update: In rereading this post, I realize I sound just like SpaceNut ... imagine that!
What were you thinking when you posted that?
That's a fantasy.
That's an AI generated fantasy, and you posted it in the forum.
An air lock on Mars will most emphatically NOT look like that!
What were you thinking at the time?
That is not an air lock ... that is a dust screen opening into an area that is at Mars pressure.
Where are the real air locks? Those must be curved to accommodate pressure, or enormously strong if they are flat.
Please try to find images that look as though they were on Mars and not the Arizona desert.
GW Johnson has written many posts explaining why pressure vessels must have rounded shapes.
Is the ISS airlock a good model for Mars?
No! The ISS airlock is NOT a good model for Mars.
To my knowledge, NO ONE has designed an airlock for Mars.
All we have are artist renderings based upon Earth experience.
You may be able to find a ** real ** airlock for Mars.
Update: SpaceNut ... the solution is easy ... just change the text !!! Those are mud rooms on Mars! They are not airlocks. The airlocks are out of view inside the mud room. The better name might be "dust room". Folks coming inside from the surface will be covered in dust. All of it must be removed before the human enters the air lock. The airlocks themselves must be large enough for a tall human to enter without bending.
If you want to try having an AI make an image open gemini.google.com and ask it to use nanobanana to create images for you. Be sure to ask it to make images that are 256K in size so you can store them on our Image Server.
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For SpaceNut re spammer activity on Image Server...
As reported earlier, we have seen our first spam attempt at registration. In looking at the main page today, I noticed that spammers have definitely found the Image Server....
Here is today's snapshot:
Who is online
In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 74 on Mon Dec 29, 2025 9:14 pmStatistics
Total posts 100 • Total topics 3 • Total members 7 • Our newest member CallibanBoard indexAll times are UTCDelete cookiesContact us
Yesterday we had 74 spammers ... we made the registration change just it time, it appears.
I haven't looked to see if any of those visitors applied for admission.
Meanwhile we have a similar number of spammers knocking on our door:
Registered users online: 1
Guests online: 80
Those 80 "guests" are (most likely) all spammers.
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For SpaceNut re gemini ...
If you are interested in working with Gemini and Nanobanana image generator, I recommend at least 8 Gb for your Chromebook.
Here is a model comparable to the one I have ... from Amazon:
HP 15.6" HD Anti-Glare Chromebook Laptop, Intel Pentium N200, 8GB LPDDR5, 576GB Storage (64GB eMMC+512GB Docking Station Set), Intel UHD Graphics, Num Pad, 720p Camera, Wi-Fi 6, Chrome OS, Silver
Visit the HP Store
I have an ACER Chromebook with CPU
12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-1215U (8 threads, 4.40GHz)
This machine has 8 Gb of RAM, and I notice that it is almost all taken up with applications. This machine appears able to handle sessions with Gemini. At least it has so far, including making images.
Update: The ideal setup would be two Chromebooks ... The one you have now is tried and true and suitable for Google Meeting as you have demonstrated. A second one able to work with Gemini would be separate so you can work with other applications while concentrating on Gemini on the 8 Gb machine. This arrangement would allow you to set up a Google meeting to discuss the Gemini session while the Gemini session runs on it's own machine. Do you have enough table space to hold two machines?
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For SpaceNut re airlock artwork ...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 18#p236718
Thanks for confirming the image was of just the dust entrance ... Please modify the text in the image posts so that our readers will understand what you are showing them. As you can see from my response, it is easy to think that you meant this to be the "" air "" lock when it is in fact just the dust room entrance which is NOT pressurized.
Please provide a floorplan for the airlock system you are thinking about.
Rooms upon rooms sounds about right for a really effective Mars airlock.
We are trying to figure out how to do things at the same time as we are trying to explain it to others, and that is often difficult.
by giving each other feedback we can (hopefully) improve our work product.
We need to always be ready to correct errors in our posts, or (as often happens) errors in misunderstanding due to wording. We can almost always improve the wording of our posts to help our readers.
I can't think of ** any ** post on the forum that cannot be improved.
No post in this forum is the last word on anything, although GW Johnson usually comes pretty close.
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Actually it is mars pressure plus a bit to be able to blow the dust off while in an enclosure. Think automated car wash blower just after it gets rinsed.
The new content is in Airlock Design for Mars by tahanson43206
The question is whether the issue Quest Joint Airlock could be adapted to the dome entrance task as mass is critical for mars transported items.
Airlock specifications
Material: aluminium and steel
Length: 5.5 meters (18 ft)
Diameter: 4 meters (13 ft)
Mass: 6,064 kilograms (13,369 lb)
Volume: 34 cubic meters (1,200 cu ft)
Cost: $164 million, including tanks
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For SpaceNut ... congratulations on your deep research and for your presentation!
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 20#p236720
In that post you show curved bulkheads. This means the designers understood the principles that GW Johnson has been writing about for years.
It is ** good ** to see those principles expressed in this design document!
However, the emphasis on trying to protect Mars from human contamination is short lived... If the scientists get there first all well and good, but they probably will be in a race with humans who want to see what's there for development purposes.
I hope we live long enough to see who wins that race.
What I see in the science oriented plan are the rudiments of what is needed to prevent contamination of the habitat. As you pointed out yourself, several days ago, the Mars atmosphere presents a risk to humans, and it looks to me as thought the design you found might be capable to protecting the habitat.
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For SpaceNut re a post about tools: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 78#p236578
The idea of sending tools seems to be related to the idea of sending human workers.
Calliban's plan is to automate the entire process. The tools that would be sent would be ones for which robots are designed. None of the traditional human tools would be shipped to Mars in the scenario of a fully automated construction sequence.
More importantly, the tools must be designed and tested on Earth before a single ship goes to Mars. What that means is that the tools must be designed as the job is designed, and not the other way around. The job to be done will dictate what tools are needed.
Let's determine what physical structures are needed, and the tools to make them will become clear.
Calliban has already provided the essential framework within which design can and will occur.
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For SpaceNut re post about needing human workers on Mars...https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=236735#p236735
That post contains some "old fogey" predictions.
From my perspective, you are ** much ** too young to be publishing text like that.
The young people we have the opportunity to invite to participate in this forum will not be interested in that kind of limited thinking.
The kind of people we ** should ** be inviting to the forum will be right in the middle of learning how to combine hardware with advanced computing to solve any problem that we can think of here on Earth, and more importantly, any problem that comes up on Mars.
There are teams of bright young people all around the planet, working on adaptive robotics systems. We are just a few years on Earth away from seeing such machines in service. The most likely place we can expect to see them right now are in the US and China, but I'll bet that Europe is not far behind.
Our task is NOT to design for human workers, but instead, to design for automated construction. That means we have to learn new things. Learning is good exercise for the human brain. Hopefully every member of the NewMars forum makes a point of learning something new every day, and on a good day, we might even learn two things.
We humans have to learn how to get rid of old, outdated brain stored data. We need to hang onto the durable information (ike Ohm's Law) and get rid of out dated information about how to shoe horses, unless we are one of few humans left who earns a living shoeing horses.
If you believe that certain tools are developed to the point of perfection, then they might find a place in the Mars manifest. I am thinking of a screwdriver as an example. Screwdrivers must be mated to the kinds of screws that will be shipped to Mars for assembly of equipment. I just read a long history of how the standards we take for granted were created by a single bright individual in England. That single invidividual invented the entire field of measurement and precision that is at the heart of engineering today.
Modern adaptive robots can operate a screwdriver. OK ... send screwdrivers, if they are needed because you've packed screws in your inventory.
I would like to see the Garage on Mars loaded up with specifications for equpment and parts for shipment to Mars.
We don't need more warnings about how difficult the process is going to be. We want to attract young people who don't care how hard the job may be. They just want to get started.
From my perspective, the Garage on Mars topic can and should include objectives, methods and parts lists, and warnings can be printed at the bottom in fine print. Every single aspect of the proposed garage needs to be assembled and tested on Earth. Let's get the process started.
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