Plutoids and Rogue Planets, Titanformation process, a cold treasure?

Void · 2025-10-02 08:09:57

Yes payments of volatiles to Mars over time may improve it from out point of view.

But I suggest that we take out an "Water Loan".

https://news.uchicago.edu/story/icy-clo … tudy-finds
Quote:

Icy clouds could have kept early Mars warm enough for rivers and lakes, study finds
Simulation led by UChicago geoscientist finds missing piece to Martian climate puzzle

Quote:

Using a 3D model of the entire planet’s atmosphere, Kite and his team went to work. The missing piece, they found, was the amount of ice on the ground. If there was ice covering large portions of Mars, that would create surface humidity that favors low-altitude clouds, which aren’t thought to warm planets very much (or can even cool them, because clouds reflect sunlight away from the planet.)
But if there are only patches of ice, such as at the poles and at the tops of mountains, the air on the ground becomes much drier. Those conditions favor a high layer of clouds—clouds that tend to warm planets more easily.
The model results showed that scientists may have to discard some crucial assumptions based on our own particular planet.
“In the model, these clouds behave in a very un-Earth-like way,” said Kite. “Building models on Earth-based intuition just won’t work, because this is not at all similar to Earth’s water cycle, which moves water quickly between the atmosphere and the surface.”

Quote:

Copilot Search Branding
Images
Videos
The hypothesis that high-altitude clouds on Mars could have caused a greenhouse effect is supported by a computer model study led by University of Chicago planetary scientist Edwin Kite. The study suggests that a thin layer of icy, high-altitude clouds could have kept early Mars warm enough for rivers and lakes to exist. This theory contrasts with previous explanations that suggested a collision from an asteroid could have released enough energy to warm the planet, which would only last for a short time. The new model indicates that even a small amount of clouds in the atmosphere can significantly raise a planet's temperature, similar to the greenhouse effect caused by carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere. The study's findings suggest that Mars' climate could have been warmer than previously thought, providing a new perspective on the planet's history and potential for life.
The University of Chicago
+3

So, by taking a "Water Loan", we may anticipate that the economy of Mars and the Solar System may become wealthier, and so in the future be more able to afford the transfer of non-local resources to various places like Mars.

If we go in the other direction, make water payments for 700 years, we take a heavy burden with weaker economic power.

Mars has lots of ice, but in the contest between dirt and ice, dirt is currently winning.

The kind of volcanism on Mars may have affected its climate, I think. If you had mostly viscous Hawaii type volcanism with lava, perhaps then you place more CO2, Methane, and Hydrogen into the atmosp0here.

If you have explosive volcanism, then you place more dust onto the surface of Mars. Then the dust may cover the ice and keep it from an evaporation/snow cycle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Fossae

So, emissions of water, lava, and volcanic ash might make alterations to the climate from time to time.

China thinks that liquid water may have been present on Mars within the last few million years.
https://blog.sciandnature.com/2025/03/b … finds.html

So, perhaps the climate of Mars may be a bit like a continuing game or "Rock-Paper-Scissors", sort of.

It its earlier days ground heat, and a larger amount of water may have allowed the snow process to hold against the dirt process more of the time.

But now without an unusual event like a large impact or volcanic eruption, dirt dominates.

If we could pull a bunch of ice from solid ice deposits on Mars, it might fall then as "Dry Snow Powder". This could blow in the wind like dust does.

You might get a temporary cycle of High-Altitude Clouds, and dry powdered snow, until the water vapor got incorporated again into solid ice masses that were either covered in dirt or at such a high latitude that it is reluctant to evaporate again.

So, if we could tweak that we might be able to bootstrap the snow cycle back into action again, which would likely evaporate all the CO2, I hope and make active high-altitude clouds again.

And then if a biosphere could be established, the process of life might keep some methane flowing into the atmosphere from then on.
Even a high Arctic type environment might be helpful in that regard.

One possible way to get the snow started again would be lasers and microwaves to evaporate ice from the polar ice caps. But other ways like greenhouse gasses and particles may be good as well.

But then with Mars made more economically valuable, the ice consumed could be repaid by moving volatiles from the more outer solar system to Mars as you have suggested.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-10-02 08:41:20)

Void · 2025-10-05 11:03:38

This aligns with my prior speculations: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-AA1NParK Quote:

A Rogue Planet Is Devouring Six Billion Tons of Gas Every Second
Story by Tibi Puiu • 1d •
3 min read

So even small worlds such as Dwarf Planets that could be tossed out of a solar system probably can collect more mass over time and become larger. This would bring in radioactive materials as well, so it might develop internal heating even to the point of open water, if the world got as big as Earth or a Super Earth.

Eventually if they wander into a stellar nursery, they may become brown dwarfs or even stars, I speculate.

And intelligent species that came to inhabit such worlds, might want to keep them relatively small by pulling matter off of them with space elevators and driving off excess Hydrogen and Helium.

Power on such worlds could be geothermal and perhaps Fusion, maybe even fission.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-10-05 11:08:58)

Calliban · 2025-12-04 15:21:33

How the Inuit survive and thrive at -64°C, without modern technology.
https://youtu.be/gjoNsZlRkSk

Quite inspiring. As humanity heads out into the solar system and later into interstellar space, we will have to learn how to embrace the cold. The inuit provide lesson that we can learn from.

Void · 2025-12-04 21:13:07

I enjoyed the video. When I was younger I used to seek out information about the Inuit, the Norse, and the Polynesians.

As I recall, the Igloo was a temporary shelter.

They would have an oil lamp, perhaps made of carved soapstone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qulliq
Image Quote: I think a woman maintained it.

How they managed keeping it lit or relighting it I don't strongly recall. That would help to retain heat.

They may have fixed a blanket or skin above them in the igloo. I seem to recall that. Not 100% certain.

They usually would not have endured the coldest winters such as Yakuts does, Yakuts is a continental climate where often the Inuit would be near the sea.

Rather than bring their outer coats into the interior of the igloo, they would brush the snow off of them and store them in the cold of the entrance as I recall. This was to keep them dry.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I agree that there is much to learn. In space generally where there will be water, it will be cold.

A multi-layer scheme can work. Something like Icecrete for an outer structure, with some protection to it from ice evaporation, and then
an inner structure.

But we can combine these sensible notions with some modern technology. I would consider grass huts if you could grow something like grass, and heat pumps instead of oil lamps. Where heat pumps will not consume Oxygen and yet could pull heat out of the "Igloo" air, and pump it into a "Grass Hut".

For flooring perhaps Patio Bricks with something like Styrofoam under it.

Nuclear Reactors to churn out electricity also very desirable. Solar as an additional contribution.

Thanks,

Ending Pending

There is a new discovery about the metabolism of the Inuit. They have something similar to the Denisovans. They can eat a lot of animal fats to keep warm. Neanderthal may have been similar. I think that their diet might not be good for us.

And that might have been the secret of the replacement of Denisovans and Neanderthals. If fatty food was not available, they would starve more than people who had our diet.

https://blog.everythingdinosaur.com/blo … rvive.html
Quote:

Extinct Human Cousin Helped the Inuit Survive According to New Paper

So, it might be sensible to give such an inheritance though gene grafting to many people who will go into space, provided that technology could generate a large supply of healthy fats to eat. This might allow for less life support heating. It might be possible at the same time 'Tweek" sensory structures to not feel cold at a lower temperature.

Similarly adaptations to thin air might be considered, from Tibet, the Andes for low Oxygen content, and those people who have an enlarged spleen who dive a lot, for temporary lack of Oxygen.

]https://www.zmescience.com/science/biol … en-042432/
Quote:

‘Sea nomads’ evolved abnormally large spleens to dive to unheard-of depths
Natives of Indonesia can dive up to 70 meters thanks to a genetic adaptation.
Tibi PuiubyTibi Puiu November 17, 2022 in Biology, News
A A

I think that possibly a biomechanical artificial spleen might be considered.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-12-04 21:51:10)

Void · 2025-12-05 10:54:52

I suppose I may be annoying you Calliban, but if you could design a dome shaped frame that is reusable, then a mix of fine ice particles and Mars soil could be piled on it. And a organic fiber such as from a plant or Mycelium from mushrooms, might be added. A microwave warming process used with a method to tamp the melting mixture would allow a freeze dome.

When completed, shading might be added to the outside using solar panels as an option.

You could then remove the original frame for reuse.

Then you might put a poly film dome inside of that dome.

Then inside of that dome you might put habit or farm methods, such as ponds for Algae, or a Mushroom farm, or even farming with vascular plants.

With an electric power source you might maintain proper temperatures using heat pump technology.

https://modernfarmer.com/2022/07/artifi … synthesis/
Quote:

Consumption
Cultivating Crops, No Sun Required
Researchers have discovered a new way to grow plants using artificial photosynthesis, requiring no sunlight at all.
#Plants & Crops
by Shea Swenson· July 28, 2022

Electricity from nuclear reactors also very welcome.

Maybe this could be tried in the Arctic, Antarctic, and Alpine areas on Earth.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-12-05 11:12:19)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#101 2025-10-02 08:09:57

Re: Plutoids and Rogue Planets, Titanformation process, a cold treasure?

#102 2025-10-05 11:03:38

Re: Plutoids and Rogue Planets, Titanformation process, a cold treasure?

#103 2025-12-04 15:21:33

Re: Plutoids and Rogue Planets, Titanformation process, a cold treasure?

#104 2025-12-04 21:13:07

Re: Plutoids and Rogue Planets, Titanformation process, a cold treasure?

#105 2025-12-05 10:54:52

Re: Plutoids and Rogue Planets, Titanformation process, a cold treasure?

Board footer