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#51 2022-05-11 14:14:23

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Queen Elizabeth II won't attend Parliament opening due to ongoing mobility issues

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/que … 12404.html

Princess Martha Louise of Norway spoke out about how she coped with the sudden death of her ex-husband Ari Behn. https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/p … behn-death Kevin Spacey link?  The ex-husband of Norwegian Princess Martha Louise also accused Kevin Spacey of a sexual assault?
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/kevin … 28440.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-05-11 14:15:03)

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#52 2022-06-26 10:26:44

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Prince Charles took bags stuffed with millions in cash from controversial Qatari sheikh: report
https://nypost.com/2022/06/25/prince-ch … kh-report/
“Everyone felt very uncomfortable about the situation,” a former adviser to the Prince of Wales told the Sunday Times of London.

John Lydon, Who Wrote “Anarchy in the U.K.,” Says “Anarchy Is a Terrible Idea”
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/joh … 03968.html

Older discussion
'Anarchism - Anything goes'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2768

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#53 2022-06-27 03:30:00

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,560
Website

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

All monarchies are the legacy of conquest.  They are what you get when another nation invades your nation and wishes to stake a permanent claim on you.  It is unfair, precisely because wealth is distributed by heritage, rather than having earned it.

This is because, with the exception of a few islands like Iceland and New Zealand, all the land was already occupied by people millennia ago. Mars doesn't have that. If someone bankrolls a colony on Mars and declares themselves Queen, who are they stealing from? And why should their heirs pay hefty inheritance taxes because they haven't "earned" the wealth?


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#54 2022-06-27 07:22:00

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,986

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

For Terraformer....

This topic provides an opportunity for me (as an individual) to express appreciation for Queen Elizabeth, and for the British people who have (apparently) successfully managed the transition from pure monarchy to a system that allows the population to rule itself while the Monarchy provides a shared framework for good order and collective feeling.  The American system seems (to me at least) to lack a unifying psychological anchor.

I had not previously thought a monarchy is a good idea, and in general I would be opposed, but Great Britain ** seems ** to be showing a way to make the concept work over the long term.

The key for the success of your idea (on Mars or away from Earth) seems (to me at least) to depend upon how you structure your society so that each member feels a sense of participation and value.  I heard an analysis of the Star Spangled Banner (music) yesterday, as the United States approaches the 4th of July. I was struck by the (news to me) that the author of the work included the word "slave" in the third stanza, which few Americans ever see or hear.

In the analysis, the speaker offered the perspective that to the Americans of the time (ca 1814) the word "slave" took in not only black people, but white people who were "enslaved" by the Monarch.

(th)

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#55 2022-06-29 11:31:43

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Ghislaine Maxwell sentenced to 20 years for helping Epstein
https://apnews.com/article/ghislaine-ma … e10d171260

Other discussions on newmars
Unpleasantries - Macabre business --
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=152
Thomas Paine 1737 - 1809
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=723

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#56 2022-07-26 04:43:28

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Courting Disaster: Can Thailand’s Monarchy Survive Democracy?
https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/art … -democracy

Mswati III  the king Swazi the Afro Kingdom of Eswatini and head of the Swazi family monarchy, born in Manzini in the Protectorate of Swaziland to King Sobhuza II and one of his younger wives, Ntfombi Tfwala
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn … -wife.html

The islamic mohammedan Nawaf Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah is the Emir of Kuwait and the Commander of the Kuwait Military Forces. The Spanish Latino nations gave him a bunch of old Freemason Globalist Babylon looking badges and awards, Knight Grand Cross of the Order of Grand Martin or some big symbolic Badge of Civil Merit The older Sabah died on 29 September 2020 and Nawaf was announced as the Emir of Kuwait during a meeting of the National Assembly
https://web.archive.org/web/20201002042 … other-emir

The Afro-Bolivian Royal House is a ceremonial monarchy recognized as part of the Plurinational State of Bolivia, which does not interfere with the system of the Presidential republic in force within the country. It is centred in Mururata, a village in the Yungas region of Bolivia. The monarchy is treated as a customary leader of the Afro-Bolivian community.
https://www.bbc.com/travel/story/202103 … al-kingdom

Tupou VI the King of Tonga is the younger brother and successor of the late King George Tupou V. was officially confirmed by his brother on 27 September 2006 as the heir presumptive to the Throne of Tonga, as his brother (a bachelor) had no legitimate children.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120415191 … e-new-king

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-26 04:54:25)

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#57 2022-07-27 06:11:35

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Ghislaine Maxwell moved to a low-security prison in Florida for 20-year sentence

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ghislaine-max … d=87367124

Hugh Grant breaks silence on link to Prince Andrew Newsnight interview film adaptation

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-new … est-update

Curtis Yarvin, simply a troll? an alt righter, a radical left libertarian type or some say he's just a Monarchist and yet American?


Who is America's elite Royal family anyways, the Kardashians, Trumps, Clintons, the Bushes, the creepy lying attorney lawyer type like Alan Morton Dershowitz  or Ted Turner, Oprah Winfrey, Sports stars, Rockers, Rappers and other degenerate Hollyweird celebs?


Curtis Guy Yarvin  also known by the pen name Mencius Moldbug, is an American blogger, software engineer, and Internet entrepreneur. He is known, along with other fellow theorist for founding NRX-Dark-Enlightenment?  Peter Thiel was an investor in Yarvin's startup Tlon and gave $100,000 to Tlon's co-founder John Burnham in 2011.  The online troll movement or serious alt right anti-egalitarian and anti-democratic philosophical movement some say and accuse him of running an idea or cult known as the Dark Enlightenment or neoreactionary movement (NRx). He has two children with his late wife, Jennifer Kollmer (1971–2021), who died in San Francisco in April 2021 as a result of complications caused by hereditary cardiomyopathy

The Dark Enlightenment is a movement critical of some argued aspects of the Enlightenment.
https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment

Not to be confused with Counter-Enlightenment.

The Dark Enlightenment or the neo-reactionary movement, sometimes abbreviated NRx, is an anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian, reactionary philosophy founded by Curtis Yarvin, an American software engineer and blogger under the pen name "Mencius Moldbug," and developed further by English philosopher Nick Land. The ideology generally rejects Whig historiography—the concept that history shows an inevitable progression towards greater liberty and enlightenment, culminating in liberal democracy and constitutional monarchy—in favor of a return to traditional societal constructs and forms of government, including absolute monarchism and other archaic forms of leadership such as cameralism
https://altfringe.com/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment

'You can only lose the culture war'
https://graymirror.substack.com/p/you-c … ulture-war

"The only possible reversal must come from strategy, rather than struggle."

'The customary color-coding of the culture war is boring. Let’s get Tolkien-pilled and talk not about red and blue, but hobbits and elves. (While not forgetting the fact that for the two centuries before 1980 or so, red—the color of anger—was the color of the left.)

We know who are the hobbits and who are the elves. We know who is on top and who is on the bottom. (Of dwarves and orcs, we shall not speak.) We know what the elves want: they want to live beautiful lives. We know what the hobbits want: they want to grill and raise kids.

Dear hobbits: you can only lose the culture war. Even when elves use political power to impose elf culture on you, you cannot use political power to impose hobbit culture on elves.

I mean, sometimes (rarely) you can. It never works out well. I suppose that in theory you could massacre all the elves. You don’t seem up for that in practice. As an elf… I have to regard that as a good thing. But it leaves you, dear hobbits, in a real bind.

If there was a way to impose hobbit culture only on hobbits, there might be a case. But our country is not configured to support separate rules for elves and hobbits. If it was, it would be a different country. Maybe a better country—but it isn’t.

The only way to impose hobbit culture is to impose it on everyone—including elves. Elves do not like to be told what to do by hobbits. Even advice makes elves mad. It is outrageous and disrespectful. And when hobbits coerce elves… utterly unacceptable. Even if any such coercion is only symbolic, it is a profound violation of elven rights. Your elf will not just be mad—he will explode—wronged in every fiber of his being...'

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-27 06:51:00)

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#58 2022-08-01 10:58:39

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Indigenous Australian senator calls the Queen a colonizer while being sworn in to parliament

https://nationalpost.com/news/indigenou … -colonizer

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#59 2022-08-08 10:34:48

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Average Orwellian Brit headline?

Shock as London police admit strip-searching hundreds of children
https://www.euronews.com/2022/08/08/sho … f-children

The monarchs of Nepal were members of the Shah dynasty who ruled over the Kingdom of Nepal from 1743 to its dissolution in 2008. The monarchy was abolished on 28 May 2008 by the 1st Constituent Assembly and the country was declared a federal parliamentary republic, in the aftermath of the 2006 Loktantra Andolan movement.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201125155 … n/11/nepal

The Nepal guy?
He had a bunch of Babylon Masonic Religion Awards and Medals, France Ordre national du Merite, Bhutan King Jigme Singye Investiture Medal, Investiture Medal, Germanic Occult Christian Grand Looking Vatican Royal Arabia Cross,  Member of the Order of North Korean DPRK Labour, South Korea not to be outdone also ave him an Order of Diplomatic Service Merit, Thailand Order of the White Elephant, Dutch Royals of Holland Netherlands Grand Cross of the Order of the House of Orange, Pakistan gave him some islamo jihadi mohammedan symbol award Nishan-e-Imtiaz, Saudi Order of King Abdulaziz, Spain Knight Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic
Thai Order of Special Class and another Dutch Royalty Award, Knight Grand Cordon of the Order of the White Elephant, Knight by the Queen of England Order of the British Empire St-Michael St-George ribbon, Yugoslavia no longer a country gave him a Sash of the Order of the Yugoslav

Nepal announces general elections
https://www.laprensalatina.com/nepal-an … on-nov-20/

The Queen is Australia's Head of State - don't deny it
https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/07/th … t-deny-it/

Republicanism is on the run in Australia – and it’s all thanks to The Crown, according to one of Canberra’s top politicians
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … Crown.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-08 10:44:23)

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#60 2022-08-26 12:41:18

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Epstein associate Steven Hoffenberg found dead aged 77 - "badly decomposed"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … ed-77.html

Prince Andrew in 'intense talks' with Queen Elizabeth II over return to royal life: report

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/prince-andrew … rt-1704108

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-26 12:44:27)

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#61 2022-09-12 08:49:56

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

No Monarchy has managed to land anything on Mars, the Russian Soviets or USSR landed something which briefly transmitted and died, NASA and JPL have managed to land many missions, nothing can match the feats of the USA on Mars. The Chinese government now somewhat modernized from old Communism and built on new economic and old State traditions, Chinese Trade with State Atheism, Unitary Leninist one-party people's republic now with a modern Space Agency they have a China Rover, the ESA a collection of non-EU and EU nations tried and failed to land but they have a successful orbiters like 'Mars Express' a mission with interesting finds mentioned in many newmars threads,  India has no lander but the Hindu first government a Federal parliamentary constitutional republic has a Mars orbiter, the crazy USA and kamikaze Japanese were dumb enough to export islamism to Mars, a theocratic monarchy with islamic mohammedanism as its Sharia Law has an orbiter around Mars.

'How King Charles III Might Rule'
https://www.vox.com/world/2022/9/8/2277 … abeth-dies

Will some Queen or King finally get their Kingstown or Queenstown on Mars?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-12 08:51:17)

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#62 2022-09-13 05:17:51

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Arrests of anti-monarchists prompt free-speech concerns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62883713

Tsar Simeon II is among the longest-living monarchs in Europe
https://bnr.bg/en/post/101703395

Vladimir Putin wins race to be first world leader to congratulate King Charles III
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … emony.html

Trump loved the Queen, but it may be up to Biden to decide whether or not he gets invited to her funeral
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-loved-q … 52878.html

Maison de Saxe-Cobourg et Gotha, Simeon II a Tsar maybe not as Kingly as others or as holy as the Dalai Lama or the Pope but still a Tsar and elected Prime Minister of Bulgaria as Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha—also known as Simeon "Sakskoburggotski" a movie on the history of Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha who became Bulgaria's tsar at age 6, then was exiled during years of communism and returned to be elected Prime Minister and there is also Philippe or Filip or Filip Leopold Lodewijk Maria or Philippe Léopold Louis Marie from House Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha the eldest child of King Albert II and Queen Paola, succeeded his father upon the latter's abdication, married Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz in 1999, with whom he has four children, eldest child, Princess Elisabeth, is first in the line of succession.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2044019/

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/theboy

The Belgian Monarchy
https://www.politico.eu/article/belgian … rse-crown/

King Charles III, her son and successor, began her reign by already joining the ten oldest monarchs in the world, at 73 years old. Carlo is not even the youngest of the elders, because the co-prince of Andorra, Joan Enric Vives i Sicília, was born eight months later.


Andorra is a very small principality between France and Spain, the sixth smallest state in Europe: it is governed by an almost single political system, a parliamentary diarchy headed by the President of the French Republic, Emmanuel Macron, and the bishop of the diocese Catalana of Urgell, precisely Vives i Sicília.
After the death of Elizabeth II, the oldest ruler in the world is now Salman bin Abdulaziz al Saud (86), king of Saudi Arabia. In truth, the date of birth of the Saudi royals is not certain, but it is known that since the founder of the dynasty, Abdulaziz ibn Saud, died, only his children have gone to the throne, from the oldest to the youngest. The dynasty at the head of the Saudi monarchy is one of the richest in the world because it manages the country’s abundant oil fields, and it is also extremely numerous: it has about 15,000 members, even if most of the power and influence is held by a circle. of “only” 2,000 members.

https://prress.com/world/who-are-the-ol … -the-post/

The living monarch with the longest-lived kingdom is Hassanal Bolkiah, sultan of Brunei, a small monarchy on the island of Borneo (Southeast Asia). There was a lot of talk about Brunei in international newspapers three years ago, when Bolkiah himself tried to introduce Islamic law into the country (sharia) which involved things like stoning in the case of sexual intercourse between people of the same sex, only to be done later reverse. Bolkiah has reigned for nearly 55 years and is also on the list of senior monarchs (he is 76 years old).

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-13 05:19:00)

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#63 2022-09-16 08:10:44

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

If Britain Got Rid Of Their Monarchy?

The televised 1994 interview with Jonathan Dimbleby, a well-known British journalist, was all but the final nail in the coffin of the Wales’ troubled union. When asked if he had been “faithful and honorable” during his marriage, the prince answered “yes,” then paused and added this kicker—”until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried.”

The program, which aired on BBC and was done to mark the 25th anniversary of his investiture as Prince of Wales, was intended to show to a more human and warm side of Charles, but roundly backfired when the heir to the British throne publicly admitted that he had committed adultery.

Charles also said that he was not considering a divorce from Diana and but added, he did not believe a divorce should prevent him from becoming King. The prince also insisted there was “no truth” to the rumors he was having an affair with Camilla Parker Bowles and described her as “a great friend” whose support he valued.

'Charles goes to the opera at the worst possible time.'
https://web.archive.org/web/20190611135 … l-moments/

In 1991, eight-year-old Prince William underwent emergency surgery for a skull fracture after being hit by a golf club while playing with schoolmates. The young prince was kept overnight at London's Great Ormond Street Hospital following an hour-long operation. Diana spent the night sleeping in a bed set up near William's room so she could look after her son. Charles took a different approach

Activists gather with ‘blank canvas’ to protest against anti-monarchy arrests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0p-r7IvBK0

Yorkshire councillor ‘deeply sorry’ after writing anti-monarchy message in Queen’s book of condolences
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/po … es-3840265

Backlash as Leeds councillor puts anti-monarchy message in Queen's tribute book
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk

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#64 2022-09-16 08:39:44

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,210

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Rule by monarchy is rule by an overclass that is established by conquest.  The descendants of the conquering Normans who rode beside William in 1066, are part of the English aristocracy.  They still own 20% of English land, for no other reason than the privilage of their birth and the murdering carried out by their ancestors.  The Norman conquest never ended.  Why would the average Joe want to live under a system like that if he didn't have to?


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#65 2022-09-16 15:12:46

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,986

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

For Calliban re #64

In general, I appreciate your sentiment in this post.

However, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out the opportunity the example of Monarchy (in many places and times) provides, for humans trying to work out a way of living together productively.

The issue I'm interested in here is the difference between the practical governing responsibilities, which the UK has transferred to Parliament and to the Prime Minister, and the state duties which reside still (in the UK) in the Monarchy.

Looking forward, since we can see in the US that trying to combine both functions in one person is ** really ** asking a lot, perhaps it makes sense to at least ** think ** about creating a "First Family" position that would run concurrently (but independently) of the governing office.

I'll be interested in your evaluation of this suggestion.

In the mean time, the UK is dealing with a 1000 year tradition that is ** still ** working, although it seems a bit creaky at this point.

In the geothermal topic, I've proposed that the existing structure might provide a mechanism for leadership that is not available to a short term leader such as a Prime Minister.  In holding a lifetime office, King Charles the 3rd can (were he to so choose) provide leadership to install a geothermal power plant to meet all the needs of Windsor Castle and have power to spare to pay back the investment.

In the case of Mars, I don't foresee much chance of a hereditary leader, but perhaps some way of achieving continuity of leadership might be invented.

(th)

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#66 2022-09-20 14:48:33

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,560
Website

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Infrastructure needs long term thinking that a democracy is ill suited to provide. Perhaps by appointing someone to a lifetime position to manage it, with their income indexed to the income of the infrastructure, would be a way forward. In the UK, this could be done by directing the Crown Estate to focus on long term projects, like power production and railway lines.

Doesn't have to be a hereditary position of course. Though in space, since it's not unlikely that a single wealthy founded will be stumping up the cash to build some of the colonies, it may turn out that way if they decide to keep it in one persons hands in their will...


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#67 2022-09-20 18:11:45

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,986

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

For Terraformer re #66 and topic in general

Please continue developing the train of thought of a democratic institution without heredity but ** with ** long term thinking build in.

We actually have something like that already ... hopefully forum members can think of other examples, but in the states we have retirement funds (some for entire states) that are responsible for providing income to support retirement of their citizen/members far into the future.

Perhaps some of the insurance companies come close to managing for the long term.

By history, the UK has an institution that comes pretty close to demonstrating some of the features of a long term institution.  I personally think that a single genetic line is not a great idea.

Your post suggested a life time appointment.  Our (US) experience with life time appointments just took a serious downward turn, so I am less enthused with the idea that I might have been a few years ago.

Never-the-less, the direction you've hinted looks well worth exploring further.

(th)

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#68 2022-10-03 23:16:51

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Musk made tweets about "Imperator of Mars" changed his profile, a Million Humans Could Live on Mars yet some believe an Emperor Pope Imperial Commander to Rule them?

Why Britain's royal succession resonates in Asia
https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/ … es-in-Asia

Gavin Miles McInnes a Canadian podcaster, news broadcaster, writer, social media guy and alt-right political person?

Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes vacationing with a beer on a boat in France two weeks after staging fake arrest live on podcast
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … t-air.html

Jan. 6 Was Just the Beginning for the Proud Boys
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ … k-00057703

'Thaddeus Russell on the Post Left'
https://astralflight.substack.com/p/tha … -post-left

I asked Thad to come on and discuss the book and politics in America today, particularly the left after Trump. His perspective is steeped in history and political theory, and his ideas are all very clearly his own. Even though I disagree with him pretty strongly on a couple things, I can’t help but admire someone whose not only an independent thinker, but someone whose able to weigh ideas on their own merits and accept or reject them with absolutely no recourse to ideology. This quality is very rare these days, so I am grateful he took the time with me to lay out his thoughts on the shifting sands of politics in America.

Curtis Yarvin: Why America should become a monarchy
https://unherd.com/thepost/curtis-yarvin/

Former computer programmer and political theorist Curtis Yarvin is considered by many to be a dangerous thinker.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-10-03 23:24:00)

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#69 2022-10-09 15:29:02

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,782

Re: Monarchy? - WHy not a Constitutional Monarchy?

Scotland independence vote could come next year, Nicola Sturgeon says

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/scotla … 022-10-09/

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