New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#101 2021-12-03 22:03:16

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,514

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

SpaceNut,

I don't think militarization of space is a good use of limited available resources.  There's no point to fighting over limitless resources.  That's like two siblings fighting over chicken nuggets while both of them are sitting in front of a 5 gallon bucket filled to the top with chicken nuggets.

There are some 2,000 cubic miles of Ethane / Methane / Propane sitting on Titan.  Someone going to Titan and laying claim to all the liquid hydrocarbon there is an absurdity.  There's enough product there for all of humanity to use for the next 250 to 500 years or so.

Offline

#102 2021-12-05 11:14:59

Terraformer
Member
From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,518
Website

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

Hmm. Titan, the plastics moon?


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

Offline

#103 2021-12-07 08:08:14

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 2,039

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

China is rapidly becoming a 'tremendous threat' in the solar system, says US Space Force leader
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chin … em-2021-12

Some previous discussions on this Space Navy, the Political motivation, Astronaut Imperialism, Space Military style topic, there was also discussion recently on newmars on the recent Russian ASAT test and the almost random trajectories created with their cloud of space debris. The satellite Kosmos-1408 was destroyed in a Russian anti-satellite weapon test on 15 November 2021, resulting in space debris in orbits between 300 and 1,100 km (190 and 680 mi) above the Earth. The threat of potential collision with debris caused the crew of the International Space Station (ISS) to take shelter in their escape capsules for the first few passes of the debris cloud, and increased the future risk of a debris collision with the ISS or other low earth orbit satellites.

The Outer Space Treaty, which Russia has ratified, bans some types of military activities in space, but not anti-satellite missiles using conventional warheads.

https://en.wikipedia.org

NASA administrator Bill Nelson stated that: "With its long and storied history in human spaceflight, it is unthinkable that Russia would endanger not only the American and international partner astronauts on the ISS, but also their own cosmonauts", and the "actions are reckless and dangerous, threatening as well the Chinese space station"

UCS Warning on Weaponization of Space
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3396  American Moon Base prediction... - tell me what you think http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1161
The high ground control to space
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7788
Howard Dean on manned Mars Effort
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1963
Why We Need To Go To Mars - We need hope for the future after 911
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1904 planetary transports Nuclear Thermal Rockets (NTR) http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5841
'The Race with China'
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5116  U.S. National Space Policy http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4993

Space the next Battlefield - Can we avoid with a new space Race
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=712

Also the 'Space Force' there is a thread on newmars called

Trump Proposes U.S. ‘Space Force’ to Guard the Galaxy

The Biden and Kamala Harris Admin have continued with Trump's SpaceForce

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_force
A space force is a military branch of a nation's armed forces that conducts military operations in outer space and space warfare. The world's first and, as of 2021, only independent space force is the United States Space Force, established on 20 December 2019.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-12-07 08:09:30)

Offline

#104 2022-04-05 05:00:02

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 2,039

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

Op-ed | Russian aggression underscores need for greater U.S. space leadership
by Christian Zur and Scott Kordella

https://spacenews.com/op-ed-russian-agg … eadership/

Offline

#105 2022-04-06 11:09:58

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 5,514

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

Mars_B4_Moon,

From the article:

Christian Zur and Scott Kordella are founding members of the newly formed Commercial Space Initiative (CSI), a non-profit organization dedicated to predictable and sustainable uses of outer space.

What are some "sustainable uses" of an empty void so large that humanity doesn't possess the equipment to detect where or if it ever ends?

Are we talking about properly disposing of all the BS that flows from the mouths of those who are supposed to represent us?

If so, then I have news for him- not even the known universe is big enough.  So, yeah, that's never going to be a "sustainable use" of all that empty space.  Any other activity is probably limited only by human ingenuity.

Is someone at this "non-political think tank" worried that human CO2 emissions in space will inevitably lead to "universal warming"?

If so, then see my response to the "sustainable use" nonsense statement.

Are we worried that those evil asteroid mining companies will "destroy the universe", right after those evil oil companies "destroy the planet"?

Forget about whatever the "sustainable uses" of a functionally endless hard vacuum are supposed to be, if only for a moment.  Let's talk about "predictable uses" of that endless empty space.  Who accurately predicted 70 years ago that our homeless people would be walking around with Star Trek communicator / tricorder devices, and that children and adults alike would be so mesmerized by those little devices that they'd get run over by cars because of it?

Since such malarkey is truly what our "thought leaders" have become fixated on, how are they supposed to become advocates for something that requires more functional brain cells than they were born with, or at least an IQ above room temperature?

Christian is a founding member and Vice President of Policy at the Commercial Space Initiative (CSI). CSI is a non-political think tank with the goal of developing thought leadership among governmental, commercial, and international partners through research, programming, and advocacy. The organization focuses on the various enablers and impediments to the growth of the domestic and international commercial space industry.

Commercial Space Enablers:
1. orbital launch cost approaching air freight prices
2. force the government to cease and desist with the practice of over-paying for commodity launch services
3. not relying on any government to do anything for commercial space exploration, except to screw it up or make it unaffordable

Commercial Space Impediments:
1. Congress seeing space exploration as a jobs program for them to "bring home the bacon", rather than "simply getting the job done at reasonable cost, in a pragmatic way"
2. Government-mismanaged programs that produce orbital launch cost greatly exceeding the costs associated with purchasing a commercial airliner and then tossing it into the ocean after a single 8 minute flight (whenever the government is involved, the only guarantee is that the program is mismanaged)
3. Pandering to radical environmental "religiosity" zealots with no real interest in space or improving any aspect of humanity, because it doesn't assist them in their tireless crusade against humanity and brain-dead self-hatred

We don't need "advocacy" or "programming", we need someone who is not a career politician, someone who is a professional engineer as opposed to a professional BS artist, to do something mildly useful, or minimally non-self-destructive, for both America and humanity.  If this guy ever thought he would find any such people in Washington, DC, well...  There's your problem.  Get away from the beltway.  Then and only then you might encounter someone worth talking to, who also champions the commercial space initiatives that finally allows humanity to move off this little space rock, and out into the vastness of the unimaginably greater universe around us.

Offline

#106 2022-04-06 20:41:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,311

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

The military is relying on the commercial market vehicles other than what they are using from the old guard for the x43 for the most part.
These at this point are capable of the LEO use manned or unmanned but if we need to service a satellite we are not there with anything we have available. The thoughts to expand that military reach is also going to fall sort as they have no station capability or of resupply chain for one if we did have it around or on the moon.

Offline

#107 2022-04-15 08:36:13

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 2,039

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

not sure if what these hackers say is true but....

Anonymous Targets Vladimir Putin, Claim To Have Hacked Into Kremlin's Spy Satellite

https://radaronline.com/p/anonymous-dec … satellite/

Offline

#108 2022-05-10 04:23:49

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 2,039

Re: Militarization -Before- Colonization?

'Space Won't Be Safe Until the U.S. and China Can Cooperate. The two countries must put aside their mistrust in order to establish rules for the peaceful use of outer space.'

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … ooperate1/

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB