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#51 2021-11-06 16:50:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,913

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

Indian Reorganization Act that abolished the Dawes Act of 1887—which had contributed to the loss of two-thirds of all Indian land—and promised better Indian education. The same law that had declared Indians as white in many states....and did not totally return lands taken from them.

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#52 2021-11-06 17:24:35

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,924

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

SpaceNut,

Petition Congress to change the law.  Congress is run by Democrats.  The President is a Democrat.  There will be no opposition anyway, because nobody cares except for the Native American tribes.  The 1934 law is the law that's applicable to the Wampanoag.  There's a legal process for changing the law, so use it.

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#53 2021-11-06 18:14:47

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,087

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

It would have been better if the USA had resolved to fully integrate Native Americans into US Citizenship, which might have involved massive investment in Native American settlements.  I don't even see how you can have these autonomous regions operating outside of normal law under the US Constitution. Presumably the Supreme Court accepts it on some spurious grounds. Once again the "wisdom" of the Founding Fathers is found rather wanting.

kbd512 wrote:

SpaceNut,

Petition Congress to change the law.  Congress is run by Democrats.  The President is a Democrat.  There will be no opposition anyway, because nobody cares except for the Native American tribes.  The 1934 law is the law that's applicable to the Wampanoag.  There's a legal process for changing the law, so use it.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#54 2021-11-06 21:06:11

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,924

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

Louis,

If the Wampanoags were erroneously excluded from the 1934 act, then the appropriate response from our Congress would be to change the law, not for the President or the Justice Department to ignore the law or refuse to enforce the law because ignoring the law is convenient or inconvenient for some ill-defined political / social / religious / other purpose.  If the President thinks the law is unenforceable as written, then he or she is obligated to veto the law, rather than sign it into law, or to petition Congress or the Courts to change or strike down the law.  A Democrat President signed the 1934 law into law, and then President Trump's Justice Department was obligated to enforce the law.  That's how the law works, and that's always how the law has worked.

The system we have has been working fine for longer than I've been alive.  Native Americans are afforded the same protections as American citizens, but they want their own "separate and apart" governance system.  There is no negotiation with the US government on rape / robbery / murder.  Everything else is negotiable.  All laws are subject to change and subject to interpretation for constitutionality by the various courts.  That system has served us well, if only we are willing to stick to it.

For example, America didn't cease to exist because one downtown city area in the City of Seattle was overrun by a bunch of communists and anarchists that their local government temporarily refused to arrest.  We actually let them do it until it became blatantly obvious that they weren't going to protect basic human rights (no rape / robbery / murder), and then we sent in the Police back in to arrest them.

Governance is a word that represents a human brain construct that has tangible results.  If you want to govern, then you're actually obligated to do it.  Whenever two or more people are in close proximity, minimum behavioral standards are expected, and we express those standards as written law that's then subject to the interpretation of a trier of fact, better known as a court.

The current problem with the Democrat Party is that the elected Democrat politicians immediately decide after the election that they don't want to actually govern.  To them, it's a vehicle for them to exercise capricious authority over other people and to extort money from them, rather than to conduct the government's business, which is very clearly defined.  That's why we still don't have a federal budget, despite the fact that Democrats have control over both houses of Congress and the Presidency.  That's also why the people will take power away from them and give it right back to the Republican Party in 2022.  We're already seeing that in the handful of state and local elections.

The question has always been whether or not you want to be an American, or to be an "other".  If I wanted to be an "other", then I'd go live some place else besides America.  We have a document that defines what the intent of America is, why America was founded, and what the purpose of the American government is.

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#55 2021-11-07 13:55:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,913

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

current model is sue in court to circumvent federal law or create state laws that force you into court and sue until you get your way

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#56 2021-11-07 17:00:15

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,924

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

SpaceNut,

The proper remedy for any law that is prejudicial or erroneous in nature, such as the land trust act that erroneously excluded the Wampanoags, is to amend the applicable law.  This could have and should have been done by Congress, but was not.

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#57 2021-11-25 12:33:14

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,913

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

So a representative needs to give testimony for this and pen a reason for the law to be changed.

Thanksgiving has a starkly different meaning to many Native American people.


"The First Thanksgiving is often portrayed as a friendly harvest festival where Pilgrims and generic, nameless 'Indians' came together to eat and give thanks. In reality, the assembly of the Wampanoag Peoples and the English settlers in 1621 had much more to do with political alliances, diplomacy, and a pursuit of peace."

Giving thanks is a longstanding and central tradition among most Native groups that is still practiced today
"In our view, this is a lie to hide the genocide of Indigenous peoples,"

Its time to correct history and pay back what is owed in the process to all those that were wronged in the history of building America. We may in time fix more but we must want to be better than our fore fathers.

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#58 2021-11-25 13:05:41

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 1,338

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

SpaceNut, whatever the right or wrong is with the colonisation of America, how exactly do you compensate people that have been dead for two centuries?  And which ones get compensated?  Would it be the ones that kidnapped white women and mutilated them?  Or the ones that died of smallpox?  Are you proposing that we somehow compensate people alive today for crimes committed against someone else that was wronged and died two centuries past?  Where is the logic in that?

America is a meritocracy and an egalitarian society as defined by constitution.  All men rise according to their merits.  That is the best you can ever hope to achieve and something quite different to what has existed in most of the world throughout history.  Handing out money or land to compensate people for some vague sense of injustice that their ancestors may have suffered is not justice at all.  All men must prosper by their own merits.  You cannot compensate or punish the dead.  To do otherwise is an injustice to everyone else.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-11-25 13:12:23)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#59 2021-11-25 14:47:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,913

Re: Claimed wrong doings of previous administration not Trump

The reality is different than to that in America as The erasure of Indigenous People’s history

The history of what was done...and is still happening..

Reparations call is a moral reckoning white Americans can no longer delay

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