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#101 2016-09-04 23:03:34

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: 3D Printers

I ran across this:
http://sputniknews.com/society/20160106 … amics.html
If it is something that was discussed already, sorry.  I didn't see it.

Anyway, sounds like a good material.  For my part I was thinking heat shield.  I know that NASA has been looking at inflatable heat shields, but I think that this material might allow the construction of larger heat shields in orbit. 

The good part would be that you could overcome the size limitations imposed by a rocket shape.

The bad parts are you need a heating process like a kiln at high temperature to cure it.
I am thinking of orbital construction, which we are really not up to yet, but it is a good objective.

A solar heated Kiln I presume.  That could be a problem because it would have to be large, and it would have to stay hot whenever the sun was occulted by an object such as the Earth.

Otherwise I am wondering if there could be a way to heat up the object in sections, say under a concentrating mirror.  But then again, what happens if you are doing it in low Earth orbit, every time you pass to the night side of the planet.

I know I will get beat up for it but what I am speculating on is a heat shield which attaches to a lander, and the two together might resemble a badmitton shuttlecock (Or I would have said birdie).

Or an Eggshell, with the payload attached to one end of the "Egg".

I do not know enough about heat shield technology to go much farther with it.

My intention is to increase drag in the upper atmosphere, perhaps eliminating the need for a parachute, (Or not).

I would prefer to have some further use for the heat shield after landing, but it could also be ejected prior to landing.

For instance, a shuttlecock shape, if it can work as a heat shield might also be upended after landing to serve as a tower receiver for focused sunlight from heliostats.  An egg shape, as a tank of some kind?  Probably too fragile.

I am not saying I think I have a problem solved successfully, just that I have formulated a problem which might be solved by people who have better skills in the area, (Or not).


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#102 2016-09-05 09:37:55

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

There are quite a few Aluminas, or aluminum oxides used in a veriety of products and locations... https://www.coorstek.com/english/soluti … hgodJZAPIA
Applications for where it can be used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide

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#103 2017-01-13 22:44:15

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

We started to talk about using the advance technology for building but we need feed stock to make use of them...

Depending on what metals we are looking to use with the printer these are what they might cost to being
Titanium powder used to 3D print automotive parts

3D printing with metal has been prohibitively expensive because of the cost of titanium powders which currently sell for $200-$400 per kilogram.

DMLS uses a laser beam to melt 20-40 micron layers of metal powder on top of each other to create metal parts

Metal 3D Printing Materials
AlSi10Mg, Cobalt Chrome MP1, Maraging Steel MS1, Nickel Alloy IN718, Stainless Steel 316L, Stainless Steel GP1, Stainless Steel PH1

Metal Powders

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#104 2017-07-06 20:54:18

SpaceNut
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#105 2018-08-30 17:21:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

We can now add this to making use of concrete in the process for making structures...

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#106 2019-11-06 20:29:51

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

Found the topic

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Louis ...

This post could (probably) fit in a number of topics, but I'm hoping you will approve it's appearance here ...

The report is about a new design for a 3D printer, able to make industrial strength carbon composite parts.

The printer is pricey (on my scale) but for someone working on Mars, I think it might be close to perfect. 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/desktop … 01687.html

(th)

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#107 2019-11-07 07:27:02

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,079

Re: 3D Printers

On 3D printers, I think one of the marvellous things about Space X's 500 ton Mission One is that you could probably set aside 40 tons or so for 3D printers, CNC machines, industrial robots and a whole series of semi-processed raw materials such as plastics, steel of various specifications as bars, plate and so on and lots of other inputs. Of course the pioneers would have with them computers - laptops or whatever - with thousands of specifications and designs for various spare parts (although of course once on Mars, cannibalising other Starships is an option) and for anything else that might be needed on Mars. For instance, once you find your water source, perhaps you will want to put in place some custom made platforms for robot rovers to operate on more easily...these could be fabricated on Mars, or pre-existing parts could be welded together to produce the desired item.

I do think industrial processes should be undertaken in a separate hab, away from both the central accommodation hab and the propellant production facility hab. The habs can all be accessed via pressurised rovers. Preferably each one should have a double air lock.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#108 2019-11-07 17:26:41

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

The starship is both cargo and crew so if the cargo are not going to go back home these are the structures to figure out how to alter for the individual construction zones as you invision for each. Since tall easy access is not going to work we will need to solve how to lower it to the side and reinforcement it so as it will serve in the new orientation.
Sounds like we are going to need personel on the crews that know sheet metal and welding for starters to change the building into the facilities that we want.

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#109 2019-11-07 19:08:38

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,079

Re: 3D Printers

I have absolutely no doubt that Space X intend to return the Mission One crew.

I think practical engineering and craft skills should definitely be a priority among the pioneers for Mission One.  People had to improvise on Apollo 13 under guidance from ground control, and the same sort of scenario could emerge on Mars where we need those sorts of skills to find solutions at short notice.

Regarding habs, personally I favour Bigelow-style units with metal frames over them that can hold quantities of regolith to provide full radiation protection.

The rover air locks attached to habs would probably be somewhat taller than the main Bigelow units but only marginally so I think - maybe a foot or so.


SpaceNut wrote:

The starship is both cargo and crew so if the cargo are not going to go back home these are the structures to figure out how to alter for the individual construction zones as you invision for each. Since tall easy access is not going to work we will need to solve how to lower it to the side and reinforcement it so as it will serve in the new orientation.
Sounds like we are going to need personel on the crews that know sheet metal and welding for starters to change the building into the facilities that we want.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#110 2019-11-08 05:15:59

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,220

Re: 3D Printers

For Louis re #107 ...

By any chance, did you read any part of the article at the link I posted?

I ask because it looks to me (as a first impression) that you generated a canned response without looking at the article.

While I cannot claim to have a full understanding of the product offering described in the article, I was struck by two things ..

The first, printing of carbon based material to make super-strong parts, has already been noted.

However, the second (again, just an impression) is that the designers may have taken a step toward further reduction of the step size for fabrication.

I'm intending to follow up, but in the mean time, I'd like to point out that the ultimate goal (at last as I see it) for 3D printing is matter replication, which would (ultimately) operate at the atomic level, as plant cells and animal cells do.

The need (as I see it) for a small community wanting to live at a 2019 first tier level, is to possess the capability to manufacture the most complex electronic systems by pushing a button on a replicator.

We are a long way from having that capability, but the theory has been in place for decades.

(th)

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#111 2019-11-08 06:18:09

Calliban
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From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 143

Re: 3D Printers

If a printer can reliably produce complex parts from low-carbon steel or aluminium, it would be very useful.  3D printing would appear to be all about compact manufacturing of novel parts, without the need for casting and milling.

On Mars, we could produce large pressurised spherical volumes, from repeatable hemispherical steel segments that are bolted together.

Last edited by Calliban (2019-11-08 06:21:07)


Interested in space science, engineering and technology.

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#112 2019-11-08 17:42:35

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

Some of the machines depend on quite a bit of raw material processing to allow for the metals, plastics and liquids to be used as feed stock to all the intricate parts to be made by them.
They are a useful tool but it comes with limits for mars built in since we are a long ways off from having insitu materials ready to go.

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#113 2019-11-08 18:02:51

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,079

Re: 3D Printers

I think we need industrial-type 3D printers on Mars.

We may need to think in terms of scaled-down steel plants also, as I have certainly seen claims that only rolling of steel can give it the required strength for seriously industrial purposes.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#114 2019-11-09 18:57:17

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,220

Re: 3D Printers

For Louis re #113

Here is more encouragement for your vision of industrial-type 3D printers on Mars ... Jay Leno has a contract with Stratasys

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jay-leno-del … 17283.html

What I see as important about this announcement is the detail that the printer uses material containing carbon fiber.

(th)

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#115 2019-11-09 20:43:58

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

The Jay Leno car collection is quite extensive and replacement parts are a problem for many as the age of the vehicles continue to increase as the parts found in the junk yards are slowly disappearing. That leave you to make your own parts in machine shops and now via 3D printing. Easy enough here with plenty of money to buy feed stock but mars will not have that after the initial mass brought from earth to make things with.
FDM Nylon 12 Carbon Fiber is on a reel for the unit it is a carbon-filled thermoplastic with excellent structural characteristics to lets you build strong, stiff, lightweight tools and parts.
https://www.stratasys.com/-/media/files … -sheet.pdf

https://ris.utwente.nl/ws/portalfiles/p … terial.pdf
Material Extrusion of Continuous Fiber Reinforced Plastics ...

This is an industrial machine Louis for the purpose of making parts that are mostly plastic

Plastics_Materials.jpg
3D Printer Materials Guide: 3D Printing Plastics

At this point for mars we are having troubles with energy and fuel manufacturing and the equipment is a long ways off...

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#116 2019-11-09 21:05:41

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,220

Re: 3D Printers

For SpaceNut re #115

Thank you for your follow up on the Jay Leno article!

SearchTerm:Status3DPrinters

I've set up this post for notes on the status of 3D printing.

I'll try to find the details that go with these recollections of posts already recorded in the NewMars archive.

1) Aluminum 3D printer to make entire rocket components
2) Elon Musk used 3D metal printer to make rocket engines for the human rated capsule
3) RocketLabs used 3D metal printers to make rockets for their vehicles
4) Others I've missed?

(th)

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#117 2019-11-09 21:41:16

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,492

Re: 3D Printers

The metal 3 d printing is newer and feed stocks of not only the metal type of interst but the form of the feed stock to work with comes in metal wire and in powder forms for these machines as the material to make your item with.
Google turned up the Markforge Metal 3 D printer capable of parts made in inconel, plus many others.
https://www.3dnatives.com/en/metal-3d-p … facturers/

The techniques used for metail can appear solid with a layering which can be later machined to the smooth finish as well as heat treated to make it stronger. It can also be made in a corrogated manner with only the surface being what appears to be a smooth solid finish to reduce mass.

https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/a-l … ing-57788/

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#118 2019-11-10 08:46:16

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,220

Re: 3D Printers

For SpaceNut re #117

Thanks for your follow up here!  I particularly appreciate the detail about cellular construction of metal parts under the surface layer.  This is a well known technique in printing with plastic, but until now I had not heard of the technique applied to metal objects.  As you probably know, the operator of a 3D printer has parameters available to set the amount of fill in a model.  Apparently something like that is available for operators of 3D metal printers as well.

I wish I could afford to get into that game, and instead will settle for watching the results as current working engineers advance the state-of-the-art.

(th)

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#119 Yesterday 21:57:40

tahanson43206
Member
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 1,220

Re: 3D Printers

The monthly meeting of a local 3D printer group took place this evening.

Of possible interest to readers in the NewMars forum is a magazine devoted to Additive Manufacturing.

https://www.additivemanufacturing.media/articles

One of the attendees this evening is a participant in a local company which provides 3D printed dental models..

A forthcoming issue of Additive Manufacturing will be devoted to medical applications of 3D printing, and the dental prints company will be included in the survey.

I also picked up a tip that (perhaps?) Dremel is involved in 3D printing?

I'll be investigating that, since I have a high opinion of Dremel products for subtractive activities.

(th)

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