3D Printers

Void · 2016-09-04 23:03:34

I ran across this:
http://sputniknews.com/society/20160106 … amics.html
If it is something that was discussed already, sorry. I didn't see it.

Anyway, sounds like a good material. For my part I was thinking heat shield. I know that NASA has been looking at inflatable heat shields, but I think that this material might allow the construction of larger heat shields in orbit.

The good part would be that you could overcome the size limitations imposed by a rocket shape.

The bad parts are you need a heating process like a kiln at high temperature to cure it.
I am thinking of orbital construction, which we are really not up to yet, but it is a good objective.

A solar heated Kiln I presume. That could be a problem because it would have to be large, and it would have to stay hot whenever the sun was occulted by an object such as the Earth.

Otherwise I am wondering if there could be a way to heat up the object in sections, say under a concentrating mirror. But then again, what happens if you are doing it in low Earth orbit, every time you pass to the night side of the planet.

I know I will get beat up for it but what I am speculating on is a heat shield which attaches to a lander, and the two together might resemble a badmitton shuttlecock (Or I would have said birdie).

Or an Eggshell, with the payload attached to one end of the "Egg".

I do not know enough about heat shield technology to go much farther with it.

My intention is to increase drag in the upper atmosphere, perhaps eliminating the need for a parachute, (Or not).

I would prefer to have some further use for the heat shield after landing, but it could also be ejected prior to landing.

For instance, a shuttlecock shape, if it can work as a heat shield might also be upended after landing to serve as a tower receiver for focused sunlight from heliostats. An egg shape, as a tank of some kind? Probably too fragile.

I am not saying I think I have a problem solved successfully, just that I have formulated a problem which might be solved by people who have better skills in the area, (Or not).

SpaceNut · 2016-09-05 09:37:55

There are quite a few Aluminas, or aluminum oxides used in a veriety of products and locations... https://www.coorstek.com/english/soluti … hgodJZAPIA
Applications for where it can be used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide

SpaceNut · 2017-01-13 22:44:15

We started to talk about using the advance technology for building but we need feed stock to make use of them...

Depending on what metals we are looking to use with the printer these are what they might cost to being
Titanium powder used to 3D print automotive parts

3D printing with metal has been prohibitively expensive because of the cost of titanium powders which currently sell for $200-$400 per kilogram.

DMLS uses a laser beam to melt 20-40 micron layers of metal powder on top of each other to create metal parts

Metal 3D Printing Materials
AlSi10Mg, Cobalt Chrome MP1, Maraging Steel MS1, Nickel Alloy IN718, Stainless Steel 316L, Stainless Steel GP1, Stainless Steel PH1

Metal Powders

SpaceNut · 2017-07-06 20:54:18

The main complaint was not useable for life support parts but this says otherwise
Hard Suits/Hard Shells: Recent Developments in 3D-Printed Hard Suits and Single-Person Space Utility Vehicles

3D Printers on the International Space Station

SpaceNut · 2018-08-30 17:21:10

We can now add this to making use of concrete in the process for making structures...

SpaceNut · 2019-11-06 20:29:51

Found the topic

tahanson43206 wrote:

For Louis ...
This post could (probably) fit in a number of topics, but I'm hoping you will approve it's appearance here ...
The report is about a new design for a 3D printer, able to make industrial strength carbon composite parts.
The printer is pricey (on my scale) but for someone working on Mars, I think it might be close to perfect.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/desktop … 01687.html
(th)

louis · 2019-11-07 07:27:02

On 3D printers, I think one of the marvellous things about Space X's 500 ton Mission One is that you could probably set aside 40 tons or so for 3D printers, CNC machines, industrial robots and a whole series of semi-processed raw materials such as plastics, steel of various specifications as bars, plate and so on and lots of other inputs. Of course the pioneers would have with them computers - laptops or whatever - with thousands of specifications and designs for various spare parts (although of course once on Mars, cannibalising other Starships is an option) and for anything else that might be needed on Mars. For instance, once you find your water source, perhaps you will want to put in place some custom made platforms for robot rovers to operate on more easily...these could be fabricated on Mars, or pre-existing parts could be welded together to produce the desired item.

I do think industrial processes should be undertaken in a separate hab, away from both the central accommodation hab and the propellant production facility hab. The habs can all be accessed via pressurised rovers. Preferably each one should have a double air lock.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-07 17:26:41

The starship is both cargo and crew so if the cargo are not going to go back home these are the structures to figure out how to alter for the individual construction zones as you invision for each. Since tall easy access is not going to work we will need to solve how to lower it to the side and reinforcement it so as it will serve in the new orientation.
Sounds like we are going to need personel on the crews that know sheet metal and welding for starters to change the building into the facilities that we want.

louis · 2019-11-07 19:08:38

I have absolutely no doubt that Space X intend to return the Mission One crew.

I think practical engineering and craft skills should definitely be a priority among the pioneers for Mission One. People had to improvise on Apollo 13 under guidance from ground control, and the same sort of scenario could emerge on Mars where we need those sorts of skills to find solutions at short notice.

Regarding habs, personally I favour Bigelow-style units with metal frames over them that can hold quantities of regolith to provide full radiation protection.

The rover air locks attached to habs would probably be somewhat taller than the main Bigelow units but only marginally so I think - maybe a foot or so.

SpaceNut wrote:

The starship is both cargo and crew so if the cargo are not going to go back home these are the structures to figure out how to alter for the individual construction zones as you invision for each. Since tall easy access is not going to work we will need to solve how to lower it to the side and reinforcement it so as it will serve in the new orientation.
Sounds like we are going to need personel on the crews that know sheet metal and welding for starters to change the building into the facilities that we want.

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-08 05:15:59

For Louis re #107 ...

By any chance, did you read any part of the article at the link I posted?

I ask because it looks to me (as a first impression) that you generated a canned response without looking at the article.

While I cannot claim to have a full understanding of the product offering described in the article, I was struck by two things ..

The first, printing of carbon based material to make super-strong parts, has already been noted.

However, the second (again, just an impression) is that the designers may have taken a step toward further reduction of the step size for fabrication.

I'm intending to follow up, but in the mean time, I'd like to point out that the ultimate goal (at last as I see it) for 3D printing is matter replication, which would (ultimately) operate at the atomic level, as plant cells and animal cells do.

The need (as I see it) for a small community wanting to live at a 2019 first tier level, is to possess the capability to manufacture the most complex electronic systems by pushing a button on a replicator.

We are a long way from having that capability, but the theory has been in place for decades.

(th)

Calliban · 2019-11-08 06:18:09

If a printer can reliably produce complex parts from low-carbon steel or aluminium, it would be very useful. 3D printing would appear to be all about compact manufacturing of novel parts, without the need for casting and milling.

On Mars, we could produce large pressurised spherical volumes, from repeatable hemispherical steel segments that are bolted together.

Last edited by Calliban (2019-11-08 06:21:07)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-08 17:42:35

Some of the machines depend on quite a bit of raw material processing to allow for the metals, plastics and liquids to be used as feed stock to all the intricate parts to be made by them.
They are a useful tool but it comes with limits for mars built in since we are a long ways off from having insitu materials ready to go.

louis · 2019-11-08 18:02:51

I think we need industrial-type 3D printers on Mars.

We may need to think in terms of scaled-down steel plants also, as I have certainly seen claims that only rolling of steel can give it the required strength for seriously industrial purposes.

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-09 18:57:17

For Louis re #113

Here is more encouragement for your vision of industrial-type 3D printers on Mars ... Jay Leno has a contract with Stratasys

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jay-leno-del … 17283.html

What I see as important about this announcement is the detail that the printer uses material containing carbon fiber.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-09 20:43:58

The Jay Leno car collection is quite extensive and replacement parts are a problem for many as the age of the vehicles continue to increase as the parts found in the junk yards are slowly disappearing. That leave you to make your own parts in machine shops and now via 3D printing. Easy enough here with plenty of money to buy feed stock but mars will not have that after the initial mass brought from earth to make things with.
FDM Nylon 12 Carbon Fiber is on a reel for the unit it is a carbon-filled thermoplastic with excellent structural characteristics to lets you build strong, stiff, lightweight tools and parts.
https://www.stratasys.com/-/media/files … -sheet.pdf

https://ris.utwente.nl/ws/portalfiles/p … terial.pdf
Material Extrusion of Continuous Fiber Reinforced Plastics ...

This is an industrial machine Louis for the purpose of making parts that are mostly plastic

3D Printer Materials Guide: 3D Printing Plastics

At this point for mars we are having troubles with energy and fuel manufacturing and the equipment is a long ways off...

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-09 21:05:41

For SpaceNut re #115

Thank you for your follow up on the Jay Leno article!

SearchTerm:Status3DPrinters

I've set up this post for notes on the status of 3D printing.

I'll try to find the details that go with these recollections of posts already recorded in the NewMars archive.

1) Aluminum 3D printer to make entire rocket components
2) Elon Musk used 3D metal printer to make rocket engines for the human rated capsule
3) RocketLabs used 3D metal printers to make rockets for their vehicles
4) Others I've missed?

(th)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-09 21:41:16

The metal 3 d printing is newer and feed stocks of not only the metal type of interst but the form of the feed stock to work with comes in metal wire and in powder forms for these machines as the material to make your item with.
Google turned up the Markforge Metal 3 D printer capable of parts made in inconel, plus many others.
https://www.3dnatives.com/en/metal-3d-p … facturers/

The techniques used for metail can appear solid with a layering which can be later machined to the smooth finish as well as heat treated to make it stronger. It can also be made in a corrogated manner with only the surface being what appears to be a smooth solid finish to reduce mass.

https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/a-l … ing-57788/

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-10 08:46:16

For SpaceNut re #117

Thanks for your follow up here! I particularly appreciate the detail about cellular construction of metal parts under the surface layer. This is a well known technique in printing with plastic, but until now I had not heard of the technique applied to metal objects. As you probably know, the operator of a 3D printer has parameters available to set the amount of fill in a model. Apparently something like that is available for operators of 3D metal printers as well.

I wish I could afford to get into that game, and instead will settle for watching the results as current working engineers advance the state-of-the-art.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-13 21:57:40

The monthly meeting of a local 3D printer group took place this evening.

Of possible interest to readers in the NewMars forum is a magazine devoted to Additive Manufacturing.

https://www.additivemanufacturing.media/articles

One of the attendees this evening is a participant in a local company which provides 3D printed dental models..

A forthcoming issue of Additive Manufacturing will be devoted to medical applications of 3D printing, and the dental prints company will be included in the survey.

I also picked up a tip that (perhaps?) Dremel is involved in 3D printing?

I'll be investigating that, since I have a high opinion of Dremel products for subtractive activities.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-16 06:09:02

A relative sent this YouTube video of (what is claimed to be) the worlds largest 3D Printer.

For SpaceNut ... While I recognize there is still a considerable distance involved, this achievement does appear to have occurred "in your neighborhood".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt2epukih2k

(th)

louis · 2019-11-16 07:21:31

Now that's the sort of machine I'd like to see on Mars. Brilliant!

If can build a sizeable boat in 2-3 days, it could likely build chassises for exploration and transport Rovers maybe in the same sort of time period, so you could be building 100 per Earth year. Or it could build propellant tanks and rocket ship sections.

tahanson43206 wrote:

A relative sent this YouTube video of (what is claimed to be) the worlds largest 3D Printer.
For SpaceNut ... While I recognize there is still a considerable distance involved, this achievement does appear to have occurred "in your neighborhood".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt2epukih2k
(th)

Last edited by louis (2019-11-16 07:32:35)

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-16 08:00:43

for Louis re topic ...

First, thank you for your (unexpectedly) kind words about the achievement of the Maine students, professors and business associates.

Second ... We have at least one contributor to this forum who (potentially at least) might have the capability of learning how to run a 3D printer despite the ravages of advanced age.

I have modest capability with a free software product called Blender, and some of my experiments are available for viewing online. Details are posted elsewhere in the forum archive, but that is NOT why I am posting now.

Members of the local 3D Printer user group have encouraged me to venture out of my comfort zone with Blender, and to try a free version of Autocad's Fusion 360. I have just confirmed my (free) registration with Autodesk, and later today I'll be downloading the Free Student/Hobbyist version.

On the assumption (perhaps not justified) that some of the elderly contributors of this forum have the wherewithal to be able to invest in a 3D printer, AND the remaining get-up-and-go to learn a programming/design language to create 3D printable objects, I will offer encouragement in this post, and extend an offer to assist with the steep learning curve to the extent I can.

Louis, since this is your topic, I acknowledge your responsibility to guide how this topic flows.

You are hereby exempted from the expectation of direct participation in the activity. I see your role as that of "benign overlord" or the NewMars equivalent.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-11-16 08:02:04)

SpaceNut · 2019-11-16 08:56:10

There are several software packages that can be used for the cad work and what is required for the machine is a neutral gurber file output for the machine to operate from or an ANSI serial print connection from the computer. Most of the software is quite expensive from a private individual perspective but from a corporate use not at all.
Even todays modern navy is using 3d printers for many parts these days.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-16 09:11:33

I like this video as well for mars and even for earth areas such as California wild fire zones.

3D PRINTED HOUSE Projects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH-zpnoNLEU

http://apis-cor.com/en/

3D Concrete Printing. Hurricane, Tornado Resistant Houses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb3zuk1qNDk

tahanson43206 · 2019-11-16 10:12:41

For SpaceNut re #123 and #124

Thanks for these additions to the topic! I'm intending to get back to the links you provided.

This post is about a specific product, Fusion 360, which is available for free to non-commercial users and students or educational institutions.

The purpose of the post is NOT to talk about 3D Printing (laudable as that is), but instead to try to persuade currently registered forum members to take the plunge and try to learn how to create plans for 3D printed objects.

It is not necessary to own a 3D printer, but on the other hand, it is a LOT more fun to be able to turn over a design to a printer than to upload the design to a Third Party for remote printing.

For reference, I am using a book recommended by a local computer store 3D Printer sales associate:

Make: Fusion 360 for Makers
Design Your Own Digital Models for 3D Printing and CNC Fabrication
Lydia Sloan Clline
Media Maker, Inc.
San Francisco
Copyright (c) 2018
978-1-68045-33-3
Printed in Canada

Since the book I have was printed, Autodesk has made a minor change to their web site:

The registration process is unchanged: http://accounts.autodesk.com/register

I had forgotten my password, so the password reset procedure worked smoothly.

The change I found was at: http://autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/subscribe

Apparently, at the time of printing, there was no mention of a time limit for a free subscription.

I found that there is a 1 year limit for a license for non-commercial use, and a 3 year limit for a student or institution.

In any case, after completing the application for non-commercial use, I was informed it would take the site 30 minutes to process the application.

If anyone wants to pick up the book from Amazon, the link is:
https://www.amazon.com/Fusion-360-Maker … 201&sr=8-1

I'm in no hurry so there is plenty of time for forum members to consider whether they'd like to participate in "real" time, or just wait until whatever episodes occur show up.

I've tried online educational activity like this before, and found that managing the varying paces of students is a challenge because faster participants drop out while slower ones try to master the material.

However, this is the first time I've tried using a forum environment.

The potential advantage is that the trail of posts will remain in place for anyone to follow at a later time, or at their own pace.

The project I have in mind is to design a piece of furniture for use in a small animal care facility. I decided it is too complex to try using Blender, although I have no doubt that Blender could accomplish the task quickly and easily in the hands of a master. Since I have seen a master of Blender at work, I know I am NOT one.

Bringing this all back to Mars ... as has been pointed out by SpaceNut and Louis here in this topic, 3D Printing of all sorts of items will surely be standard practice at Mars, or away from Earth in general.

(th)

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#101 2016-09-04 23:03:34

Re: 3D Printers

#102 2016-09-05 09:37:55

Re: 3D Printers

#103 2017-01-13 22:44:15

Re: 3D Printers

#104 2017-07-06 20:54:18

Re: 3D Printers

#105 2018-08-30 17:21:10

Re: 3D Printers

#106 2019-11-06 20:29:51

Re: 3D Printers

#107 2019-11-07 07:27:02

Re: 3D Printers

#108 2019-11-07 17:26:41

Re: 3D Printers

#109 2019-11-07 19:08:38

Re: 3D Printers

#110 2019-11-08 05:15:59

Re: 3D Printers

#111 2019-11-08 06:18:09

Re: 3D Printers

#112 2019-11-08 17:42:35

Re: 3D Printers

#113 2019-11-08 18:02:51

Re: 3D Printers

#114 2019-11-09 18:57:17

Re: 3D Printers

#115 2019-11-09 20:43:58

Re: 3D Printers

#116 2019-11-09 21:05:41

Re: 3D Printers

#117 2019-11-09 21:41:16

Re: 3D Printers

#118 2019-11-10 08:46:16

Re: 3D Printers

#119 2019-11-13 21:57:40

Re: 3D Printers

#120 2019-11-16 06:09:02

Re: 3D Printers

#121 2019-11-16 07:21:31

Re: 3D Printers

#122 2019-11-16 08:00:43

Re: 3D Printers

#123 2019-11-16 08:56:10

Re: 3D Printers

#124 2019-11-16 09:11:33

Re: 3D Printers

#125 2019-11-16 10:12:41

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