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#126 2019-11-21 18:55:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Here are some more business topics to include:

DOOK wrote:

Small tool/repair kit with following items:
wire cutters and wire splices
mini tubing cutter and tubing flare kit, fittings and extra steel tubing
pry bar
rock hammer
manual soil coring tool
long reach brush to clean dust from solar panels
duct tape
various thin fiberglass panel sizes
thin rubber sheet
extra rubber wheel grips
two extra C02 scrubber fans

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#127 2019-11-26 18:53:54

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

power grid transfer stations and distribution nodes or substations for AC power transformers and service provider that installs the transformer connection back to the grid.

Here is another thought solar boiler heat creation for heat storage and or power generation.

plot owner tally identifier registry

goal is 7800 plots and in that are duplicates for competition but no more than 3 of any one plot type

that would define at a minimum plot types are 2600 at a 3 count of each or 3800 if a duplication of just 2 for the competing business

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#128 2019-12-02 09:07:01

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,496

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut ...

This announcement seems appropriate for My Hacienda because it seems likely farming will be a significant industry in a major Mars settlement, as Sagan City (2018) promises to be.

2. Tuesday, Dec. 3, 2019: 7-8:30 PM PST (9-10:30 pm CST; 10-11:30 PM EST): We welcome BRYCE MEYER of CMU for space farming, closed life support and more.

To hear the program live, tune into www.thespaceshow.com.

Otherwise, the program will be saved to archive after the broadcast.

Google came up with these citations for Dr. Meyer:

Search Results
Web results

CMU SEI Blog: Bryce Meyer
https://insights.sei.cmu.edu › author › bryce-meyer

Nov 17, 2015 - Bryce Meyer. Many systems and platforms, from unmanned aerial vehicles to minivans and smartphones, are realizing the promise of Open ...
Bryce L. Meyer - SEI Digital Library - Carnegie Mellon University
https://resources.sei.cmu.edu › library › author

Bryce Meyer and James Wessel provide a 10-step method for planning/assessing software performance, allowing for respective improvement of architecture ...
Characterizing Technical Software Performance Within ...
https://resources.sei.cmu.edu › library › asset-view

Bryce L. Meyer, James Wessel. This report focuses on both qualitative and quantitative ways of determining ... CMU/SEI Report Number. CMU/SEI-2010-TR-007 ...

Tue, 12/03/2019 - 19:00 | Bryce Meyer - The Space Show
https://www.thespaceshow.com › show › brroadcast-3423-bryce-meyer
Dec 3, 2019 - Brroadcast 3423 Bryce Meyer Tuesday 03 ... 03 Dec 2019 Bryce Meyer ... CMU professor discusses space farming, space life support issues ...

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2019-12-02 09:07:31)

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#129 2019-12-02 19:03:46

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

I see that your post is about a mars broadcast air show...

Reviewed the list and its missing burial grounds or cemetaries, funeral homes, crematoriums, mortuary plus staff, unified religious centers that taylor to all not singlular forms there in of peace, marraige couselors and justice of the peace, ect...

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#130 2019-12-06 19:36:11

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

repost

SpaceNut wrote:

The jobs that are created fall into categories of job titles, duties or responsibilities, functions or service, design or engineering ect....so lets start with a career job title list:
Learn About the Different Types of Job Titles
Business Careers: Options, Job Titles, and Descriptions

List of Careers and Job Titles:

Architecture and Engineering Occupations
Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media Occupations
Building and Grounds Cleaning and Maintenance Occupations
Business and Financial Operations Occupations
Community and Social Services Occupations
Computer and Mathematical Occupations
Construction and Extraction Occupations
Education, Training, and Library Occupations
Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Occupations
Food Preparation and Serving Related Occupations
Healthcare Practitioners and Technical Occupations
Healthcare Support Occupations
Installation, Maintenance, and Repair Occupations
Legal Occupations
Life, Physical, and Social Science Occupations
Management Occupations
Military Specific Occupations
Office and Administrative Support Occupations
Personal Care and Service Occupations
Production Occupations
Protective Service Occupations
Sales and Related Occupations

List of Careers and Job Titles:

A list of 1200 on this page
https://www.careerplanner.com/ListOfJobs.cfm

Career Pages include Description, Activities, Education Requirements, Colleges offering related programs, Skills, Knowledge, Work Styles, Work Values, and Salary Information on the above page but these are more like active filters to weed out those that look like the cookie that they want to employ.

Kbd512 suggested infrastructure which covers roads of all sizes, bridges, rail car, water, sewer, electrical transmission plus creation as well as home residential buildings as well as destroyed businesses....Its also an area of action that is not only repair or rebuilding due to aging weather caused conditions but also from the impacts of the many storms, floods, tornado, huricanes, forest fires and more....

Mars is also a jobs program for all that can go as they create earth support jobs as well.

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#131 2019-12-06 20:30:42

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,868

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

I think the Mars economy will work in two ways. It will skim lots of billions from the Earth economy e.g. in commercial sponsorship. At its most obvious, stuff that was spent on Nike sponsorship on Earth will be redirected to Mars. But also, once there are people on Mars, the economy there will grow and grow independently of Earth. If you want to visit Mars you will need life support...so there's a real Mars-centred sector developing there. Initially it will be dependent on people coming from Earth who need life support but as people live more permanently on Mars it will become a Mars-focussed sector.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#132 2019-12-09 18:12:50

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Here is another plan for early mars while we build up towards the goal in a Mars Habitat for Martians... This would be simular to the venture called Habitat for Humanity in how it would function to allow for a reclaiming of older materials that are still good to use in a pitch and with donated manpower used to help in the aspects which you are short on funding to buy the very best. Its a paying in return system when its your turn to assist in like kind.
The group would also handle the issues of when someone can no longer support themselves due to disability of any sort with regars to property transfer and ticket home.

https://www.habitat.org/

We build strength, stability and self-reliance through shelter.
Habitat for Humanity is a nonprofit organization that helps families build and improve places to call home.
We believe affordable housing plays a critical role in strong and stable communities.

Did an edit to my roving plot place holder
adding is Topographic Land Surveyors. Mineral claims marker and plot marking.

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#133 2019-12-09 19:40:57

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,496

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re #132

This suggestion (Habitat for Humanity) reminds me of the Amish tradition of community support for families.  A familiar example is barn raising, in which a good sized barn can be and often is assembled in a single day.  I saw an example of this a few months ago, when an Amish family was hired to build a garage.  All the materials needed showed up a day before the assembly, and then the entire two car garage was assembled in a single day of intense activity. 

Thanks for using the Edit tool of FluxBB to add to your "roving plot place holder" record.  This is a fine example of what I am hoping others will do when we succeed in drawing them into the project.   By editing one's plot record, one does not clutter the forum archive unnecessarily, but progress can be reported on the open board from time to time.

Eventually, if my vision for this unfolds, each plot record will contain all the details that would be needed to realize the design on Earth, or on Mars.  What is more, those details will be available to anyone with Internet access, to guide them in building a business/habitat on Earth.

(th)

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#134 2019-12-09 19:51:31

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Here is another business in flying in the air with a helocopter, balloon and once we solve for mars airplanes.
We sort of have topics for each to help with anchor discusion areas.
will add them in shortly... I forgot one more in suborbital flights such as a Gashopper...

Scouting Mars by Helicopter
Dirigibles on Mars - A practical means of transport?
Airplanes on Mars
Martian Gashopper Aircraft

All this talk about flying and we are about to do so on earth with Flying cars could lure investors away from ground-based services: survey

I think this one is simular to what mars would be ?m=02&d=20191209&t=2&i=1462021711&r=LYNXMPEFB810Y&w=1200

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#135 2019-12-12 22:54:11

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

More for the toehold plot starting to expand for sustainability.

House building on Mars with a 3d printer like the one for the repost

The world's first 3D-printed neighborhood is being built in Mexico for families living on $3 a day

AAK4uVy.img?h=450&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

The printer is named Vulcan II

The 33-foot printer pipes out a concrete mix that hardens when it dries, building the walls one layer at a time. It takes 24 hours over several days to build two houses at the same time -- that's about two times faster than it takes New Story to build a home with regular construction. "We think part of what 3D printing allows us to do is to deliver a much higher-quality product to the housing market at a speed and price that's typically not available for people in" low-income housing,

About 1.6 billion people in the world don't have adequate housing, according to a 2015 Habitat for Humanity study.

Make a trench and top for mars to make use of daily sunlight just as much as we will artificial.

Punching holes in opaque solar cells turns them transparent

opaque-solar-cell-compared-neutral-colored-transparent-solar-cell-hg.jpg

Existing transparent solar cells tend to have a reddish hue and lower efficiency, but by punching holes that are around 100 um in diameter (comparable in size to a human hair) on crystalline silicon wafers, it allows light through without coloring. The holes are then strategically spaced, so the human eye is unable to "see" the pattern. The best solar cells on the market have an efficiency of over 20 percent. The transparent neutral-colored solar cell that the research team developed demonstrated long-term stability with a high-power conversion efficiency of 12.2 percent. The next step for the team is to scale up the device to 25 cm2 (3.88 in2) and increase the efficiency to 15 percent. Furthermore, most windows are vertically placed, which causes light to hit the windows at a low angle. When hit by low angle light, the electrical current in conventional cells drops nearly 30 percent, while transparent solar cells reduce less than 4 percent--allowing it to utilize solar energy more efficiently.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.joule.2019.11.008
Research Report: "Neutral-Colored Transparent Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaics"

This makes it ideal for solar concentrated light to pass as well as to get the energy from the reflected light. This is a benefit to a natural lighted greenhouse as the panels now become part of the construction and not extra mass to supply energy.

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#136 2019-12-15 21:00:14

tahanson43206
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Posts: 3,496

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

In another topic recently, kbd512 introduced the idea of filling volumes inside Mars habitats with CO2 from the atmosphere, and using breathing apparatus for humans who will be working inside the volumes.

I was curious about the possible benefits or drawbacks of filling a greenhouse with CO2 to Earth normal pressure, and a first search with Google turned up this item from Canada:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/cro … 00-077.htm

While the article is primarily about supplementing natural CO2 (on Earth) with additional CO2 (from burning fossil fuel, for example) it does provide a bit of data about advantages and possible disadvantages.

I'll continue looking to see if anyone has done research on growing plants or other biological entities such as algae in an all-CO2 environment.

(th)

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#137 2019-12-15 22:25:19

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

The first paragraph and last were spot on for kbd512 post on how do we protect man but we will need new gear and its not going to be like what we use here on earth as its got to be modified for mars use. Where the soils contain perchlorates, dust in mars air clings to materials and that we have not the experience for mars contaimination cleaning to protect men.

In and of itself that is a business for man once we are there to provide the cleaning and suits to maintain being able to work in the hazards of mars. To repair and make new suits to use and to modify what we start with to make them better for the conditions that we will work in.

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#138 2019-12-19 20:59:38

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

How did we miss the atmosphere processing plant on the first page as a business oportunity as its the only way we will have life support for any and all lots for being self sufficient.

repost roaming business model that is purpose driven

SpaceNut wrote:

I have seen a local RV convertred for medical and Dental care for the poor in the neighboring city and now here is another option for the poor in 'Shower Power': Woman converts food truck into mobile shower unit for homeless

https://showerpower.ms/

a new paint job of blue bubbles, includes a privacy door, hot and cold water, body soap, shampoo, a sink and a mirror offering free hot showers. In addition to trying to get another truck with washers and dryers, there are plans in the works for haircuts.

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#139 2020-01-05 15:45:55

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

What is the next step to making the first plot0003 a finished product as I think we have plenty of topic jobs and business within the pages to fill in for the many plots that are to be part of the registry.

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#140 2020-01-08 17:41:13

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Thinking about each plot and how to get a foot forward on each takes each plots owner to get a foot hold on its use when landing and then starting what is needed to be the choice of business and or surplus build up that others can make use of for the beginning of commerce between each plot. The final state will take many years as its investment to push a plots owner further than to what they can do privately even if you are rich enough to not need to finance the ticket to get there.
The tickets to mars will get cheaper as the supply goods and otehr cargo get requested in larger volumes much like the transportation of people to mars will as things like the BFR starship become available for use by the many which would want to take a fresh step.
Each persons plot is first survival and second for commerce for a selected business until there are enough to justify when a second business will be allowed to grow such as to enable competition.

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#141 2020-01-08 22:29:52

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,496

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re #140 and topic in general

Thank you for continuing to think about the potential of the My Hacienda concept!  I have a lot of pans in the fire (?balls in the air?) and appreciate your keeping the fire lit under My Hacienda. 

I am back from the monthly local 3D Printer meeting, and hope to post some updates related to what I learned in the near future.

In the mean time, I ** really ** like your developing concept of how My Hacienda will come to pass.  I am seeing My Hacienda as something like the Normandy Invasion, with vast numbers of people cooperating to put a few thousand people on the beach.  There was no thought of making a profit.  That was an all out culture survival exercise.  The fact is that millions of people profited from the exercise.   The same is likely to be true for an all-out campaign to land a going enterprise on Mars.

I'm expecting the period of exploration and trial and error will be past by the time My Hacienda happens. 

The simple fact is, the entire My Hacienda concept can be realized and tested on Earth, in one of the locations already identified, or somewhere else, and the testing activity itself will surely be beneficial to the larger Earth community, because the technologies needed to live comfortably underground in an inhospitable climate on Earth are already much needed, and will become increasingly needed.

To bring the focus back to NewMars forum ...  you have captured the feeling of what I have in mind in Post #140 ... I am hoping the forum will attract young people who can imagine creating a business as part of a community, and the virtual forum environment is a safe place to work out ideas while gaining education and experience in related activities on Earth.

(th)

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#142 2020-01-25 15:36:42

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Well today we did get a new member in the materials construction topic.
Of course I am still combing through the forum for posts I have made with regards to the use of thermal heat to energy for the use of wood as it relates to steam.

Plot0013 pipelines

This got me thinking again of a business oportunity for the use of those underground pipes and that was for steam heat transportations frpm any thing that creates excess heat as a function of operation or by design. Such as a nuclear power plant and solar concentration, chemical exothermal as in the sabetier reactor and and anything else were the work is done and we need to capture it so as to not waste it.

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#143 2020-02-04 13:14:29

Terraformer
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From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,304
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Re: My Hacienda On Mars

In honour of Veganuary and Febudairy, my hacienda will now be focusing on raising sheep for milk.

edit: Spacenut for Plots 0032 and up to unknown number for a variety of farming husbandry....Plot registry post

Which means the main challenge is producing grass, or other sources of feed.

Other questions are - how do we dehomogenise the milk? Unless we can do that, we can't get the cream out, meaning no butter. What yields can we get? My back of the envelope calculations suggest they're about as efficient as cows on a calories-in:calories-out basis (less milk, but the milk is far fattier). What is the quality of their wool? Identifying a market for otherwise waste products would alter the economics favourably.

Given that I'm more interested in this than bamboo (I would like to own a small flock at some point), maybe I will actually update the post with research...


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#144 2020-02-04 17:41:39

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Here is a topic loading of husbandry that we currently have for plot number identifications for future discusion growth to add in for the many future state businesses.

Plot 0033 Methane Peril of "Tooting" Sheep and Cows big_smile
Plot 0034 Swine
Plot 0035 Cattle
Plot 0036 Chickens
Plot 0037 Booze

we have no direct discusion of wine topic thought its spoken of in these in which we cover many food types not only for humans but some which can be used for animal husbandry.

Crops
Growing plants on Mars

Plot developement is not taken in sequentual number but are mission driven

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#145 2020-02-04 19:50:55

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,496

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For Terraformer re #143

Raising sheep is surely more interesting than growing bamboo!

If you are willing to venture a bit into the My Hacienda concept, I'm hoping you will develop a vision of what you would like to have available in your operation, without regard to sourcing.  What I'm hoping will happen is that as members of the forum develop their visions, they'll identify needs which others can undertake to supply.  While this is a virtual "market" it can be quite realistic, if participants make and effort to keep it that way.

You are (I'm presuming) going to want to be supplied with fresh clean properly mineralized water for your human staff and for the animals.  This water can and should be supplied by one or more people who specialize in this important commodity.

As a reminder for new readers of the forum who may not be aware of it, pure water is NOT healthy for humans or animals.  Humans and animals evolved on Earth to need (and prefer) fresh water that has percolated through rock and soil so that it contains quantities of various minerals.

Detailed information is presented in a post in the forum archive, including links to online resources for those who might be interested in further study.

(th)

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#146 2020-02-06 08:33:36

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,496

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For Terraformer re Plot0004 record in My Hacienda topic

Per your latest update, I have changed the PlotMaster to reflect a change from Bamboo to Sheep Farming.

Please adjust the text in your plot record:  http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 81#p154881

My hope is that you will start editing that record to reflect the material requirements you will need to support your new objective.

You can base your entries on your real world experience on Earth.

The entries you make will contribute to an understanding of market opportunities in the virtual community which My Hacienda is intended to show.

The capitalist system works as needs are revealed and entrepreneurs endeavor to find solutions to meet those needs. 

Your plot record should include notes for buildings (in the case of Mars many of these will be underground) and inputs of various kinds.

(th)

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#147 2020-02-06 18:29:30

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

The fact that we would want trees at all in any form means we see that there is a need for them in the plot registry whether there is a signator or not to the broad topic of which types we need. Not to meantion which ones are more beneficial to that desire to see the green leaves of home once we are there.

The signator of a plot is just the general contractor putting together a planned discusion in a topic to which the majority of its content are used when planning the colonies growth from the plots use.

We currently only have a few signators but the plots themselves as defined are sustainable even without any plot business developement that is used to build a colony with. The business is how the plots build Mars to be competitive with earth supplies and exports as well as for direct sales to each other to stay sustainable.

Each plot starts out at some level of beginning toehold, foot hold and so on until we have sufficient growth to sustain building business growth on the plot.

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#148 2020-02-07 05:40:37

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 3,496

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

For SpaceNut re #147

Your mention of trees reminded me of a program broadcast recently about the geology of Earth.  The program is part of a series that has dealt with continental drift and the evolution of the Earth in general.  This latest episode contained a sequence that I thought is worth mentioning for consideration for Mars.

The report showed that as carbon dioxide has waxed and waned over the geological record, a particular plant has adjusted by adding or removing openings on the leaves for admission of CO2 for photosynthesis.  The range of CO2 analyzed started below our present value of about 400 PPM, and reached a high of 1000 PPM.  I'll try to find the program, and report the plant name. 

This bit of information (when collected) would also fit into at least one other topic, having to do with greenhouse design for Mars.  The subject of interest in that topic was the question of whether CO2 could be increased in pressure inside a greenhouse so that a human could work inside without having to wear a pressure suit.   The first run of that topic yielded information suggesting that many plants have an upper limit of CO2 concentration in which they do better and then begin to fail.

As a side note .... the program on the geological history of Earth included a graph showing alternation between periods of high CO2 levels (when no ice existed on the planet at all) and low periods when ice covered all or much of the Earth.  We are currently in an ice period, but clearly moving toward another ice-free period.  During the ice-free period, both the Arctic and the Antarctic regions were covered in forest.  The petrified stumps of trees are still present to confirm the changes that have occurred.

From the standpoint of Mars settlement, study of the record of plant adaptation on Earth over the eons may reveal more examples of plants that can tolerate high levels of CO2, and thus would be candidates for high pressure CO2 greenhouse facilities, where they would (presumably) produce oxygen for humans to consume in their Earth-normal habitats.

(th)

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#149 2020-02-07 09:35:16

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,304
Website

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Human habitats will not necessarily be low CO2. Experiments have found sheep can tolerate up to 120mb partial pressure CO2.

The more important difference is that plants can tolerate far lower pressure than animals. *That* is why I would expect workers to be wearing  oxygenmasks whilst in them. A 100mb greenhouse is a lot cheaper to build than a 500mb one.

Also why, in my hacienda, the sheep will not be free to graze. Well, they can graze a little in their pressurised orchard (because why not add a secondary product if I can?), but almost all of their feed will be harvested from the low pressure pasture that surrounds the orchard and farmhouse.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#150 2020-02-07 18:33:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,686

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

Agriculture Study Mars Pure CO2 Greenhouse of which in that topic we are talking in PPM units and not air pressure components. http://www.madur.com/index.php?page=/partial_pressure

https://www.ocean.washington.edu/course … Gases.pptx
1,ooo mb is earths pressure

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