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#76 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-02 05:19:58

I've been reading reports from New Orleans, blogs and news. Seen more pictures. This is completely insane. It's time to quit treating this like a rescue effort and occupy the city. Enact martial law and start executing anyone that doesn't fall in line. Steal food, executed. Rape, executed. Attack relief workers, executed. None of this "aiding the civil power" nonsense, treating this as a mere crime wave is not gonna cut it.

If we're going to help the people that have remained civilized we're going to have to crush those that have turned to barbarism.

#77 Re: Not So Free Chat » Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$ » 2005-09-01 06:38:28

$2.98 by work.

$3.29 near home.

If it hits $4.00 I'm taking my vacation time. Can't afford to drive in, need to be paid to stay home.  big_smile

Strangely though, I must confess to a certain degree of schadenfreude in the whole situation. So many people are taking it so badly, flipping out over it. I can't help but be amused at times.

Like the guy at work that drives a Ford Excursion and constantly bitches about Bush gouging uslol Comedy gold.

I'd get a motorcycle, but the potholes here are killer. Not even potholes really, but craters. I've started naming them.

At the very least, when the papers or tv news say we're at a "record price" for gas they are finally right. They've been saying it for months it seems but never adjust for inflation. Thanks to Katrina we are officially at record high prices in real dollars.

#78 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 13:41:57

One of many articles with credible sources saying the same thing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8046526/

But hurricane experts say the unusual series of hurricanes, four of which slammed into Florida in a six-week period, was the result of a natural 15- to 40-year cycle in Atlantic cyclone activity.

After a lull between 1970 and the mid-1990s, the number of storms picked up dramatically from 1995 and higher-than-normal activity is expected for the next five to 30 years as a phenomenon known as the “Atlantic multidecadal mode” holds sway.

“Really, for the folks that are doing work on hurricanes, there isn’t a debate (about global warming),” said Chris Landsea of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s hurricane research division in Miami.

It then goes on to address the opposing view, climatologists who say:

Many climatologists disagree. They say the large, decades-long swings in hurricane activity may mask, but do not rule out, longer term climate change trends.

Not exactly a conclusive rebuttal.

Essentially what we have is this. Most likely temperatures in parts of the world are in fact rising, it happens through natural processes at predicatable intervals and we're due. Most likely "global warming" has precisely zilch to do with increases in hurrican activity, which also moves in predicatable cycles and we're due. Most likely human activity has some affect on climate just as forest fires, ocean currents and cow farts do. In near certainty human activity is not the driving force of climate change as evidenced by past patterns. Most likely we can't stop it if we wanted to. With total certainty measures such as the Kyoto Protocol would have no measureable effect.

Conclusion: Reality of global warming probably but not certain. Will reverse according to natural cycles as it has always done. Advise preparations for new projected conditions.

In short, the world changes and there's nothing you can do about it. if you think your land is gonna flood, don't build below sea level. If you think your land is gonna dry out, don't start a farm. Shit happens, it isn't fair, deal with it.

I don't expect to convert any of the true believers, but your priests are spouting nonsensical doctrine.

I here I thought I'd be in a better mood today.  :?
Must be the global warming.  Stupid Bush. tongue

#79 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 11:53:32

Right, it is better to judge a politician based on there personal life then how good or bad their policies are for America. :rol:

You miss my point. Using Iraq as an example, questioning the need for the war is a valid position. Raising doubt about is it perfectly reasonable. However the Left has moved past that. We now have politicians and reporters alike gleefully harping on the death toll from Iraq. You could almost sense the salivating anticipation from teh Media and Democrat activists as the count approached 1000. It's sick.

Getting back to Hurricane Katrina, not even a day passed and they were trying to make a political issue of it. Bush didn't give money to build more levees, He's on vacation instead of being there helping.

Incidentally, anyone remember the hurricanes in Florida, when George W and Jeb Bush were down there? The party line then was that they're holding up relief efforts for a photo-op. Just can't win.

While the American Right has no qualms about viciously smearing their opponents, the Left happily smears America in the hope that it hurts their opponents. That's a profound difference. That is largely why the Democrats continue to lose elections.

edit: and you really think GW is an honest politician?

I really believe that "honest politician" is an oxymoron.  wink
And if I were a true believer Democrat strategist I'd tell them the same thing I wrote here.

#80 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 11:31:37

Yeah, the republicans are complete saints when it comes to negative campaigning. How quickly we forget Monaca Lowinski and File Gate. :rol: Or how about the attacks about John Carries War meddles.

Absolutely the Republicans dish out mud in equal measure. The difference is that they attack their opponents themselves. Kerry lied about his medals, Clinton is a horny lying President, on and on. Today's Democrats have as a central element of their strategy the practice of taking anything that is bad for America and using it for political gain. It puts them in the position of benefitting only when America gets hurt. That's not a good place to be to gain the support of Americans.

There I days I swear half the Democrats in the Senate would go into a mass orgasm if a nuke went off in an American city.

Yeah, it's a little over the top. But I'm not retracting it.  wink

#81 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-08-31 10:10:35

*My disagreement is based on the seeming disingenuous nature of the statement. The Feds bribe churches and faith-based orgs??

Okay, I see where you're coming from. Yeah, "bribe" may not have been the choice of words.

Interestingly, "separation of Church and State" is somewhat misleading. It's never stated in the Constitution, the federal government is merely prohibited from establishing a national church, favoring or persecuting a particular religion.

So Constitutuionally speaking, you can pray (aloud) in school but the school can't make you pray. That interpretation doesn't seem to allow federal money to be given to religious groups for charitable purposes, but then it doesn't allow federal money to be given to anyone for purposes of benevolence.

Ah well, no one pays any attention to that ratty ol' piece of paper anyway.

#82 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 09:58:25

your focus on a tiny portion of the issue (new studies) demonstrates that on the larger issue you are simply OUT OF AMMO!


That's a pity, because New Orleans is going to need all the donations it can get. Cobra Commander could still contribute other materials and supplies to the effort, however.

Not out, just hoarding it.  big_smile

#83 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 09:53:39

My solution? Honesty about the costs of Iraq and levy the taxes needed to pay for the war and levee maintenance.

I'll amend that. Honesty about the costs of the Iraq war, the necessity of finishing it, and honesty about the costs and state of all other federal expenses. We have plenty areas of spending that cost more than the war and deliver less than final victory in Iraq has the potential to. There are other places to get the money to build levees, but they don't have as much potential to turn into a political hammer.

Which brings me back to the main thrust of my last post. The fact that it's so easy to predict that the American Left would try to use the hurricane to bash bash Bush is illustrative of a very serious problem at that end of the spectrum. Attraction to the negative, revelling in whatever hurts America as long as it can be used to hurt the opposition too.

EDIT::
Post since I left for lunch give me cause to relax the tone of this, but the general points still stand.

#84 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 09:05:27

How about cancelling improvements to the exact levee that broke because of the need to fund our operations in Iraq?

Riiiight. We all know the hurricane was caused by global warming that Bush won't do anything about and <gasp> we couldn't build levies becasue of the war in Iraq. What an evil bastard that Bush is.  roll

First off, it doesn't hold up on either count. Second, you guys on the Left have to realize that trying to turn every bad thing that happens into political gold is hurting you. It really turns people off, it's like clapping in glee when someone gets hit by a car because you can act concerned for the cameras as they die on the pavement. 

Hurricanes happen, it's just a fact. This last one was by no means unusual. Cities built on flood plains will flood. Trying to imply that a study on a single levee being cancelled somehow made the damage worse and that it's the direct result of the Iraq War is political propagandizing at its clumsiest. It's like an SNL skit. But funnier.

#85 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 07:54:45

So, tell me why there is a global temperature rise on earth ?
Termits farts ? 

I'm waiting for YOUR arguments.

The Moon is somewhat cheese-colored, therefore it is made of cheese.

No, you can't just dismiss that conclusion, prove to me that it isn't.

If you want to know what I think the singular cause for climate change is. . . it isn't a single cause. The Earth is a complex, self-regualting system. If you look at the history of the planet you find that dramatic climate shifts happen at regular intervals. Even in the absence of human industry. Just for "recent" examples, there is the Medeival Warm Period during which Europe was warmer than today for centuries. It was followed by a mini-ice age, which we've recently come out of. Climate change is a fact of life on Earth, suddenly blaming this particular instance on SUVs and factories doesn't make any sense. It's politically useful and psychologically more fulfilling perhaps, but it's based as much in faith as science.

Don't write off those termite farts though, a colony can kick out alot of flatulence.  wink

#86 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 07:24:15

None of which ? may be, but if you collect the whole datas, then there are no doubts.
Still you blah blah blah. The faith is on your side, not on the scientific side.

Jumping to conclusions isn't scientific. The mere presence of climate change in no way indicates a direct human cause for it.

#87 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 06:53:00

I think you mix everything with real poor arguments. That's just blah blah blah.
Faith, superstitions and religions were never based on things like thermometers, lots of scientific measures and satellite earth watching.

None of which logically leads to the conclusion that human activity is the direct cause of the change or that we can reverse it. Hence the "exercise of faith" comment.

#88 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 06:07:12

Denying global warming is pure propaganda from industrial trusts to avoid to pay the price for environmental efforts. They don't care of people.

Here's the problem. Too many people link global warming with human industry when there is no conclusive evidence to tie them together. Maybe the world is getting warmer (that itself is a matter of some dispute) but accepting the premise, it in no way indicates that we're directly behind it. I know it's tempting to think I don't remember it ever being this hot, the world is changing. I bet it's because of all the pollution. Yeah, that's the ticket. The world has always had climate shifts, even in the very brief flash that is human history things have changed dramatically. We're coming off the tail end of a small ice age, of course it's going to get warmer. If it is the result of the natural climate shifts that have occured for as long as the Earth has existed there's nothing we can do about it. I don't like pollution either but skewering our own industry and economy isn't going to stop the planet's cycles. We're better served just accepting what change there is and adjusting to it based on hard facts, not trendy, ever-shifting theories. "Man made global warming" is an exercise in faith, perhaps the fastest growing religion in the world. Like so many other superstitions, making policy based on it will bring misery to many and solve nothing.

#89 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » "Agreement" on Mars » 2005-08-31 05:54:17

It seems to me that in this case "agreement" is a nicer word for "submision".  18th century philosphy had a knack for that, making things sound nicer than they are.

People "agreed" to obey the monarch in the same sense that we "agree" to pay outrageous, Constitutionally prohibited income tax. It all comes down to the threat of force. The vast majority of us find it preferable to accept the odious terms of submission (agreement) rather than risk the even more severe consequences of resisting. Mars will be the same.

And that is why man will always have a drive to move elsewhere, always pushing the frontier back further. Not to explore, not for knowledge or riches or the betterment of their own souls, but simply to get away from all the jackasses telling them what to do all the time.  wink

#90 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-08-31 05:34:39

Constitution requires
article 1/section 1: All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a congress of the United States, which shall consist of a senate and house of representatives. That pretty much gives total control to "a congress" (obviously not The Congress). "A Congress" is a gathering of the people (not elected officers, not representatives, not leaders, or corporate executives).

You'd be right but for the little detail that the rest of Article 1 goes on to define the Congress in question, what composes it, when it meets, how it enacts law etc.

It really is a fairly simple document to follow, means just what it says. No subtle tricks, no hidden meanings, no arcanum needing translation.

::EDIT:: Just read C. Baldwin's "You Might Be a Constitutionalist If..." (linked to Randy's web page). Most is okay. I'm definitely not in agreement with #15, #25 and #19, though.

Just checked it out. As I figured, very conservative and very Christian. Like uber-Republicans. Most of their "you might be a constitutionalist" list I don't find objectionable.

as for the ones Cindy cited:
15: You might be a Constitutionalist if you believe that it is not unconstitutional for children in public schools to pray or read the Bible.

If we're talking about schools leading prayer, that I oppose. But if a kid wants to pray in school I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to. Hell, as an atheist I can confidently say that the Bible is no more ficticious than the average high school history textbook anyway.  wink

19: You might be a Constitutionalist if you believe that the federal government has no business bribing churches and faith-based organizations with federal tax dollars.

I don't see a problem here either.

25: You might be a Constitutionalist if you believe that in the beginning God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

Okay, I see the objection here. No, not the anti-gay reference, I just don't believe that God exists, let alone created anything.  smile Remove the creation angle and the whole statement is meaningless.

And therein lies the real problem with the Constitution Party in my humble opinion, God's word is not the law of the land, the US Constitution is. The Almighty has no jurisdiction here.  wink

#91 Re: Not So Free Chat » Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms... » 2005-08-29 07:35:04

Perhaps a total lockdown on political discussion is what's needed. I can't advocate that because I'm of the opinion that if we have to take that step it's beyond repair regardless, but if Josh or Adrian decide to go that route I won't object.

Initially I came to this forum for the "Martian Politics" and "Terraforming" topics, discussion about the wide open possibilities of the future and all that. Those areas have been next to dead for a very long time. A metaphor perhaps.

That said, the real issues of politics and uncivility are overall confined to the "Free Chat" and "Human Missions" threads. Making determinations about the entire board based on those anomalies is a bit rash.

#92 Re: Not So Free Chat » Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms... » 2005-08-29 06:06:16

Arrgh!

Bill. I ask you, directly. Have you noticed such a pattern in Clark's behaviour? A simple yes or no is all that's required.
CC. I ask you too. Yes or no?

Yes, since my first day here. Sometimes I like clark because he has a tendency to take every position to the point of absurdity to illustrate flawed resoning. At the same time, he can be real prick at times without reason or provocation.

This last little tirade of his I would not have edited out of other users posts but I wouldn't have banned him either. Primarily because, like Josh, I don't want to get to the point of posting rigid rules that need to be enforced universally. Anythign we enact has at some point been violated by at least half the members. Where do we draw the line? One ad hom? Six? a clear pattern over years? Why? Besides, if we've reached the point where it's necessary, it's too late.

Yes, Shaun could with just a few mouse clicks never have to put up with clark's tantrums again. Hell, we all could. We could ignore anyone that says anything we don't like. We could enact all sorts of standards and aggressively ban anyone who violates them, but then we wouldn't have many users left.

Kinda like now but with more work.

No rules nor snazzy interface features are going to solve the apparent problem. If we can't associate as a functional community of our own accord this isn't going to work. We can blame Shaun for being too sensitive, we can blame clark for being a combative troll, but in the end it's the fault of no one and everyone. Shaun, clark, me, Josh; we all fucked it up in our own little ways. Some more than others but it's all so subjective and not worth any further time or effort.

<flush>

Farewell Shaun, you will be missed.

#93 Re: Not So Free Chat » terrorist nukes already in the u.s.? » 2005-08-26 12:39:38

CC, arguing for the government to teach responsibility.

HaHa.

Thank you.

lol
Hey, there are a handful of things that government is required for. Winning a nuclear war isn't something the average Joe can properly prepare for.

*But isn't fear a good thing in this respect? Fear is a good motivator...to often not do something. Humans have a tendency to minimize/shrug off what they aren't afraid of. Can we risk nurturing a "ho-hum" response?

I would prefer fear based on reality, it has a thread of hope that way. In popular misconception a nuclear war would mean the end of human civilization, probably of all human life, maybe killing every living thing on the planet and just perhaps cracking the globe in half. Rubbish for the most part. Particularly given that any adversary we'd face would be counting on us backing down. We're so squeamish when it comes to apocalypse.  wink

I don't think accurate information would lead to a "ho-hum" attitude about nuclear war at all. It would however better prepare us to survive it if i ever occured.

That's true. But we need to avoid people becoming comfortable with the idea of nuclear war, and even accepting of the inevitability. We can't risk this becoming a "self-fulfilling prophecy" or something along those lines.

A fine line perhaps. One could argue that if we prepare we make the event we're preparing for more likely, but at the same time there's a question of prudence. At the moment the US is like a big fat guy sitting on a pile of donuts with a .357 while a thousand hungry savages mill about with weapons of their own, all the while saying to himself "They'll never attack me and besides, I'm invincible."  Not a good place to be.

#94 Re: Not So Free Chat » terrorist nukes already in the u.s.? » 2005-08-26 12:04:57

You can't really do all that much against nuclear weapons. Our ability to minimize risk is limited.

Sure it's limited, but we can do far more than we have been. We have virtually no civil defense apparatus in place. Many communities have no structures suitable for surviving an attack, no fallout shelters, if they do they often don't know where to go. The vast bulk of the population doesn't know what to do and has nowhere to go even if they survive the initial attack. They simply die. Our industry has no precautions taken to keep it functional after an attack, our entire financial structure could be cleansed by a few well-placed EMP bursts. We don't have protected food and water supplies, the Soviets used to (and by some accounts Russia still does) have giant grain bunkers for such an event, we've got whatever a person has in their cabinet and whatever FEMA brings assuming they can respond.

Essentially what we need is a segment of government and industry to get together and look at the problem as how can we win a nuclear war rather than assuming that the prospect terrifies the rest of the world as much as it does us and dismissing it. There is so much we could do, some of it insanely simple. Just having the Department of Homeland Security launching a campaign to encourage people to have some food and water and rudimentary sheltering would do tremendous good should the need ever arise. Educating people about the real effects of nuclear weapons would help immensely, they don't vaporize everything and leave the air and water radioactive for 10,000 years.

In short, this is one of many cases where we have become so comfortable in our position and so sure that nobody would ever want a war that we've made ourselves grossly vulnerable to fairly simple attacks that would have devastating effects. We're climbing up on a giant pile and it only takes a couple midgets kicking the base to knock us on our ass.

While we need to watch for those midgets, we should also be prepared to get up and fight should we ever find ourselves in that scenario.

#95 Re: Not So Free Chat » Happy Birthday Dr. Smith- Nov. 6th » 2005-08-26 11:45:30

When I was younger, salt, tequila, lime and a good kiss was more in style.

Same when I was younger, but we generally skipped the salt and lime.  big_smile

I used to know this girl that could drink anyone under the table. . .

#96 Re: Not So Free Chat » terrorist nukes already in the u.s.? » 2005-08-26 11:33:41

Back on topic, I have concerns that for all the doom scenarios about nuclear terrorism we may be missing the big problem.

If a terrorist group has one nuke they may well blow up one American city. It may not be the most effective tactical use of such a weapon, but terrorists don't look at the conflict through the same lense we do.

Americans always fail to realize that. We always look at avoiding war as the goal. All too often our enemies look to winning a war as the objective. Heads up our asses.

So terrorists blow up a city, in the grand scheme we can cope with that. But what if they blow up four or five? New York, Washington, LA and Chicago. I'd add Detroit to the list but I question whether anyone would notice.  wink
Because we have made essentially no preparations for either large-scale nuclear defense or long-term war fighting, a small group of terrorists could conceivably deliver a crushing blow to this country. A situation that other powers will exploit to their benefit and our detriment.

Okay, step further up the "what if" ladder. Let's entertain for a moment the idea that some nation already possessing nuclear weapons chooses to attack the US in part by offering clandestine support to those terrorists?

Call it paranoid, call it "war gaming", call it being prepared for all contingencies, just run with me on this. A few major cities are hit by smuggled nukes. Millions dead, massive communications failures, mass chaos. Add in a hacker attack to shut down further chunks of the telecom and financial networks just for shits and giggles. Any second-rate power in the world suddenly has a free hand to do whatever the hell they want. China taking Taiwan, easy. North Korea invading the South, you're all clear Kim. Russia. . . doing some crazy Russki stuff, just do it.

Point being, aside from taking steps to prevent a nuclear terrorist attack we also need to prepare to endure one, minimize casualties and infrastructure damage, maintain communications and remain a fully responsive global military force during and after the attack(s) however the severity.

#97 Re: Not So Free Chat » Happy Birthday Dr. Smith- Nov. 6th » 2005-08-26 10:32:22

My birthday was Tuesday and my wife gave me (us) two tickets to Jimmy Buffet at Wrigley Field next weekend. Margarita anyone?

In that case, belated goodwill to you as well.

I'll pass on the margarita though, doesn't go with the Prophet's style.  big_smile

#98 Re: Not So Free Chat » Happy Birthday Dr. Smith- Nov. 6th » 2005-08-26 09:01:44

Yep, have a good one clark. If that is your real name. <glares suspiciously>  big_smile

#99 Re: Not So Free Chat » I'll take malaprops for *5* Bob - Apropos of Nothing continues. . . » 2005-08-26 08:44:34

Hora defungis coitus circum.  big_smile

My apologies for the screwy conjugation.

#100 Re: Human missions » Mars ship Needs Radiation shielding » 2005-08-26 07:26:15

Plastic melts in space right? Temperature ranges from extreem heats to colds?

So sandwich it with some other insulating material. Problem solved.  smile

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