"Agreement" on Mars

Palomar · 2005-08-30 15:15:58

*Okay, so I'm continuing to read 18th century Enlightenment philosophy...which of course includes political philosophy. Quite often I see references to the word agreement in the articles written by the philosophes. Many (not sure what number) seem to favor the notion that mankind's governments and societal structures, etc., are based on "agreement." People in the old days "agreed" to have monarchs, "agreed" to have a hierarchical priesthood, etc.

:?:

Seems more like people just grab power when the opportunity arises and they swiftly ensure everyone else knuckles under (with varying degrees of severity).

What opportunities for agreement would Mars colonists have in an entirely new world or is that just a pipe dream/quaint and noble but false sentiment?

--Cindy

clark · 2005-08-30 18:12:26

you can agree to go. but then the kids kind of have to make the best of it, don't they?

Fledi · 2005-08-30 19:29:43

Probably it will be like with settlements here on Earth. At the beginning they will be too unimportant for powers back here to bother with too much, but as they get more significant economically the grip by Earth authorities will increase on cultures that will be increasingly different from those on Earth resulting in conflict.
If the space people manage to win that there will be another time of more freedom, but in the end they will have governments that will be no different in oppressing the people than those on Earth. This will be the time when we will have to move out even further.

Oh and I might add that as religion is becoming the dominant force in the 21st century there will be enough people who will want to leave Earth to escape increasing oppression of free thought.

I know this sounds like the history of the US, but fact is it was always something similar to this with any new colonies since the antique.
But it is very difficult to make such long term prognoses now that we are beginning to be able to change ourselves fundamentally and are developing ever smarter AI all the time.

In the end I don't have the slightest idea of what it will be like.

Cobra Commander · 2005-08-31 05:54:17

It seems to me that in this case "agreement" is a nicer word for "submision". 18th century philosphy had a knack for that, making things sound nicer than they are.

People "agreed" to obey the monarch in the same sense that we "agree" to pay outrageous, Constitutionally prohibited income tax. It all comes down to the threat of force. The vast majority of us find it preferable to accept the odious terms of submission (agreement) rather than risk the even more severe consequences of resisting. Mars will be the same.

And that is why man will always have a drive to move elsewhere, always pushing the frontier back further. Not to explore, not for knowledge or riches or the betterment of their own souls, but simply to get away from all the jackasses telling them what to do all the time.

Trebuchet · 2005-08-31 07:42:09

The point could be made that getting away from jackasses IS for the betterment of their souls, Cobra. Or their sanity, at least.

As for home-grown Martian oppressors, the field's wide open - what would Earth be able to do about a tinpot dictator on Mars, invade?

Palomar · 2005-09-01 06:39:02

It seems to me that in this case "agreement" is a nicer word for "submision". 18th century philosphy had a knack for that, making things sound nicer than they are.

*It was a very optimistic stream of philosophical thought overall, which is refreshing and enjoyable IMO. A lot of "can-do" spirit and etc. Of course their writings had to get past some rigorous censorship (Amsterdam was the most liberal city in Europe at the time; Voltaire frequently relied on publishers in Amsterdam to get his writings published); France and England both had intense censorship. And there are many instances of Enlightenment writings only being published after the authors' death (fear of imprisonment, etc.).

I agree with "agreement is a nicer word for submission" in this context.

One of the major turning points in my life was reading an example of "changing one's agreement" with whatever. I was very young and the story (supposedly true life) was in a mystical context of all things. Pretty powerful stuff for me, at the time.

--Cindy

srmeaney · 2005-09-03 06:57:03

Close your eyes and listen to my voice...You are getting sleepy...Come over to my way of thinking...You believe in Space Commonwealth...You will Support the formation of a Space Commonwealth...when I snap my fingers you will remember only that you have decided to Support Space Commonwealth...

A yes, where was I? Ah yes. Dont you love government.

For a third glorious century of total law enforcement: Vote for the Red Mars Party

For Better Education for your children: Vote for the Blue Mars Party

For Better Health Care for the elderly: Vote for the Yellow Mars Party

Palomar · 2005-09-03 14:07:32

*Comments?

We often hear about Nazis to whom Argentina gave refuge, but not Jews. It is Politically Inconvenient.
...ancient historians had no difficulty in grasping that bad rulers could also do good. To the ancients, many rulers, perhaps most, were both. The ancients wisely saw this as the ruler’s perennial condition; tragedy even. By comparison, modern historians have declined into infantilism.

I would include the link to the article in this post, but it'd likely throw the topic completely off course.

--Cindy

clark · 2005-09-08 14:02:09

We often hear about Nazis to whom Argentina gave refuge, but not Jews. It is Politically Inconvenient.
...ancient historians had no difficulty in grasping that bad rulers could also do good. To the ancients, many rulers, perhaps most, were both. The ancients wisely saw this as the ruler’s perennial condition; tragedy even. By comparison, modern historians have declined into infantilism.

And this largely ignores the historical context by which history was recorded prior to the printing press and a general popualtion that was literate.

Historian's don't need patrons like they once did, and their patrons can't summarily lop off their head (or the family of said patron) because it paints them in a bad light.

Besides, most of the conflict related to historical bias is largely because too many are too enthralled with contemporary history. Like literature, you need a few centuries for things to settle down to truly appraise and understand the importance of events and people.

My opinion, but the understanding of history has declined into infantilism, not historians. Read some Plutarch and tell me historians have not progressed.

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#1 2005-08-30 15:15:58

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#2 2005-08-30 18:12:26

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#3 2005-08-30 19:29:43

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#4 2005-08-31 05:54:17

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#5 2005-08-31 07:42:09

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#6 2005-09-01 06:39:02

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#7 2005-09-03 06:57:03

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#8 2005-09-03 14:07:32

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

#9 2005-09-08 14:02:09

Re: "Agreement" on Mars

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