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The follwoing is a theoretical approach to providing a base on the Mars with electrical power.
The Hydrogen Hybrid engine could have a shaft attached to the cam shaft that would then be attached to a generator (similiar in design to that of a dam generator) that would produce enough electrical power to supply
the base.
This type of design would be more feasible then a solar powered station where the solar paneling would have to cover an exstensive area of land. The cost parameters invovled with solar power versus the Hydro-
Generator are as follows.
1.More trips would have to be made to the base which would cost more money.
(More trips means more resources spent and wasted that could spent elsewhere. Like warp drive hehe)
1a.More money would need to be spent on repairing the solar paneling from micrometer strikes and other abrasive materials that would scratch the paneling surface.
Advantage: Hydro-Generator
Reason: The hydro-generator would be housed inside the base where it
could be serviced and free from solar occurances.
1b.Depletion of solar cell.
Advantage: Hydro-Generator
Reason: The solar cell of the planeling would eventually need to be replaced which would cost more to have an astronaught suit up, use oxygen that cost's money and then replace the solar cell. By using the hydro- generator these cost's could once again be eleviated due to the fact that the cost's incured by suting up would be eliminated by having a completely in-base power source. The Hydrogen-Generator would also not require constant monitoring of each cell for failure, which would cost more money to build monitoring systems for the paneling.
2.The solar panleing does not produce H2o which is needed by the astronaughts to maintain hydration
Advantage: Hydro-Generator
Reason: The Hydro-Generator's only by-product is water that when collected and stored could be used to maintainan astronaught's hydration level. The Hydro-Generator could also be used to hydrate a greenhouse from which the astronaughts would be able to grow the fruits and vegetables needed to survive. These fruits and vegetables could then be frozen and sent back to Earth to sell as an exotic fruit or vegetable
grown on Mars
This theortical approach still needs some tweaking and all proponents of this design are encouraged to add to this theory. Please list your advantages or disadvantages for each and a reason.
Perhaps a more cost efficent way would be to build habitats that use only hydroponics to grow the neccessary food supply. The cost's involved with neutralizing the possible toxic soil of Mars would be better spent on the hydroponics idea.
Now comes the second part: The waste material of the plant, the stems, stalk's and leaves would be used as a natural fertilizer that when the process of decomposition occures will create gases that could help in creating an ozone layer.
The deck of the facility would be Martian soil with the decomposing plants laid on top of the Martian soil. Perhaps the microbials invovled with the decomposition process would affect the Ph level of the Martian soil, rendering the soil fertile.
Underneath each module they would be a irrigation system where the water from the polar caps would be pumped to each location.
Each module would have an add-on type design where more compost would be deposited. Hopefully this would start to create a "creeping affect"
where the organisms would continue to spread out over the surface.
Once the decomposition gas levels got to a certain level, the gases would then be released into the Martian atmosphere thus possibly creating an ozone layer through which the sun's UV rays would intereact with the ozone trapping the gases thus creating an atmosphere.
What about this theory which is testable.
We know that lasers operate at light speed and use different types of gases and elements to create the laser. What if a way were found to attach to the orbitals of one laser other gas atoms that remain inert when attached to the light photon but when accelerated at light speed and are then collided with another laser that has other inert gases attached to the orbitals that when the gases collide would release energy. Now this energy since it was collided at light speed would create a fast as light speed energetic reaction, meaning if proven to work the way stated above could propel a ship to light speed or a lower sub-light speed.
No.
Gravity is a fundamental property of matter, and (aside from a few very small relativistic effects) has nothing to do with rotating objects. Einstein's theories hold everywhere, not just in atmospheres. Gravity exists everywhere. And physical laws are no different in space than they are here on Earth.
You're right that mass is a fundamental property measured in kilograms, it "increases" when traveling at relativistic speeds, density is mass/volume, and w=mg gives a good approximation of gravity at sea level, which is measured in newtons. There's no kind way to say this, so I'm being blunt: Everything else in your post is nonsense. Go read a book or something on physics. I recommend the MIT video lectures.
First off gravity is generated by very fast moving motions of atoms. Here is a little project to prove this.
If you pour colored water into a swiming pool what happens? The colored water will spread out over the rest of the pool, but if you take a stick and place it in the center of this colored water and start to stir it what happens? The colored water will maintain its cohesive bond. After you stop stirring what eventually will happen is that due to the colored water not having the centrigual force holding the colored water together at a certain rate of velocity the colored water will spread out.
All I ever hear anyone say is that Einstein is always correct. Instead of holding on to these old notions why don't people start doing expierments to see for theirself. Einsteins Laws of Physics are Earth based notions, space on the other hand is not the Earth.
There are places throughout the Universe that are void of planets and solar systems that generate gravity. Gravity does not exist everywhere.
Here is an idea on how to use the hydrogen fuel cell engine as a stationary power supply. First: mount an engine block on a stationary surface. Next: attach a shaft to where the engine would connect to the drive shaft of the tranny. This shaft would then be connected to a generator (similiar to that found in dams) to create electricity. That is stage one. Stage two would have another device attached to the exhaust that would use the heat along with the build up of pressure in a pressure vessel to turn a vane that would be conneceted to another shaft that would be connected to a generator that would be use to create electricity. Two power sources from one engine.
Here is an idea on how to use the hydrogen fuel cell engine as a stationary power supply. First: mount an engine block on a stationary surface. Next: attach a shaft where the engine would connect to the drive shaft of the tranny. This shaft would then be connected to a generator (similiar to that found in dams) to create electricity. Thats is stage one. Stage two would have another device attached to the exhaust that would use the heat along with the build up of pressure in a pressure vessel to turn a vane that would be conneceted to another shaft that would be connected to a generator that would be use to create electricity. Two power sources from one engine.
I have noticed that all space suits are bulky and cumbersome to wear in space. But what about on Mars where obviously the scientists will have to bend and squat to pick up samples or get to get a closer look at what they are looking at.
My idea comes from medival times when banded mail armor was used.
Essentially the armor was hundreds of small bands of metal or wood laced together providing flexibility in movement. This same principle could be used in a suit design.
By using small bands of semi rigid material held together with material that would stretch would allow for the scientist to have greater flexibility in their movement. Although not a tailor, my grandma was a seamstress and when I was younger i enjoyed seeing how she had her patterns for what she was making, laid out on her table. Being inquisitive and too her dismay i would ask question after question about what she was doing. So I know this part of the suit will work.
We call those ‘natural monopolies,’ because they exist due to location, and so on. Telephone, water, electricity, cable, etc, are all natural monopolies. In our current level of society we have to pipe those things through each and every household. In fact, my neighbors cable lines probably go through the walls in my apartment. Same goes with telephone lines, pipes, etc.
So it makes little sense for some private entity to own something which goes through my own property. This is why they're regulated. I want some control over a resource which I actually share a part in.
Actually this is untrue. If your house has never had a cable line ran to they will take make a new connection from the cable that is ran overhead along with the other powerlines. It will then get ran down the pole and into your house. cable is not like the water or sewer line. it is not built off a neighbors line, after all who would pay for it.
Im going to have to agree with Mr. Blevins. Life may be further underground where water will have formed caves, pools and underground lakes. There would also be more warmth from the planets core at these depths meaning that if life is present then the process of growing and dieing would create methan gase from the decompossing orginism's. A possible way to find these hidden underground beds is to look for fissures where gas may be seaping out of. This would be a place to start.
it's possible, if water exists then the probability for life to exist is at around 75%. The life may not be like we are as all life forms would have evovled to survive in their environment. Look at the angler fish or the bio-luminescent fish that inhabit the deepest parts of out ocean here on Earth.
Lifeforms always evolve to survive, if it doesn't then the liferoms would become extinct.
laughing, do you think you would want to visit Earth if you were an advanced spacefaring civilization? Every notion that people think of how an alien civilation would be like is based off of how humans would go about it.
There are three main types of Extra Solar Entities in the Universe
1.Agressive - only purpose is to conquere other races for a self servatial notion, killing all that opposes them. Driven by property and wealth.
2.Non-Agressive - the purpose of this type of race would be the exploration of the Universe to better theirself and their race or civilization.
They would posess weapons meant to defend theirself against attack but would never use them to attack pre-emptively. This is hopefully the race that would make first contact with us. Driven by exploration and knowledge
3.Neutral - this race would be reclusive in nature, being like race number 2 but not wanting to interact or be enacted upon by outside races. This race would most likely have the most powerful tech and weapons available to concel their existance and if found would have the ability to not leave any trace of their existance. This race would be more aggressive then #1 and would open fire on an Earth vessel first.
Driven by exploration and knowledge, the same as number #2.
Then there are humans- ????
The mass of an object is a fundamental property of the object; a numerical measure of its inertia; a fundamental measure of the amount of matter in the object. Definitions of mass often seem circular because it is such a fundamental quantity that it is hard to define in terms of something else. All mechanical quantities can be defined in terms of mass, length, and time. The usual symbol for mass is m and its SI unit is the kilogram. While the mass is normally considered to be an unchanging property of an object, at speeds approaching the speed of light one must consider the increase in the relativistic mass.
The weight of an object is the force of gravity on the object and may be defined as the mass times the acceleration of gravity, w = mg. Since the weight is a force, its SI unit is the newton. Density is mass/volume.
Now given the above, once a vessel is away from a planet, which produces gravity due to the inertia of the spinning core, the weight of the vessel would seem almost non-existant. This means that once a vessel leaves the gravitational dissapation zone (the zones around a planet or sun where the varrying strengths of gravity occure) of a planet the weight of the vessel would not increase but decrease because there would be less pull on the vessel meaning less weight
Einsteins theory is based on happenings that occure here on Earth and in an atmosphered environemnt. Space is a totally different environment all together.
Once a vessel accerlated away from a planet and went to warp drive the
vessel would most likely weigh less as it left the gravitated field of the planet. Less gravity means less weight, more gravity means more weight.
Gravity is only present in areas of space where solar systems are located or other celestial bodies. After all you need a spining object that has an active core to create a gravitated field. No spining plant or sun, no gravitated field or a pull to create weight on the vessel.
Last time I checked the Universe isn't packed together like sardines so there will thousands of light years where there is not any gravity at all.
No planets or suns or blackholes,pulsars ect no gravity, this is called freespace - an area of space where gravity is not present or is so weak in strength as too not make any mention of.
If the lanscape on Mars is like our dessert , perhaps this soil coul be made into Martiian glass, one of the main ingrediant's in the glass making process is sand or silicate. This process when tried on Mars, perhaps may shed some result not seen on Earth. This would be due to the fact that the silicate would be Martian and how the UV rays from the sun would interact with the glass could create better crops or even new types of crops.
Perhaps a better solution would be hover craft. These types of vehicles would use the available atmosphere to create a cushion for the craft to ride on. These craft could run on electric power cells that could recharge when not running, also an E85 type engine could be mounted to keep the electric cells charged, and when the cells were discharged the E85 engine would start up charge the cells then turn off until needed again. The E85 engine could also be used as a reserve engine in case the electric cells go bad or some sort of failure occures.
If I were one of the first degreed settlers to colonize Mars and non-degreed people come to the planet, It wouldn't matter to me if they were degreed or not, I would be anxious to show them what was found, what has been built. Seeing that they were non-degreed it would also be a prime oppurtunity to teach them first hand knowledge of what was taken to Mars. They would learn first hand from the old knowledge and then put their knowledge into the process, thus bringing about new methods of going about things on Mars, when new people arrived the knowledge from the second generation of settlers would then be passed on to the thrid generation and so forth. Each generation of settlers would learn from the latter and continue to build, just as it has been done on Earth for thousands of years, from cave dwellings to Martian habitats on beyond.
I have libertarian leanings myself, but agree that early settlements will be tightly regulated, absent significant technological advance, for reasons outlined in another thread ...
This notion is correct. We have no idea what is under the surface of mars.
It is a totally different planet then what Earth is, as far as we know there could be a new type of mineral that we don't have here on Earth, this means that new materials could be made, from new materials come new designs for buildings, ships, ect. From these new buildings, ships ect comes even newer types of buildings, new elemental compounds. This can be shone to be true just by looking back through humanities history, from the first time the first mineral of iron was wrought into a spear tip to hunt to materials that have gotten us to the Moon and beyond is why we need to goto Mars.
Along with the fact that new stories of advanture would be written, new heroes and villians along with the other fabrics that make up humanity will be made new on the loom of exploration.
Those that say there is no reason to goto Mars are those that wish to stay complacent. Why because they have a complex about people being above them. These people are the ones that would try with all they might to bring down a Mars mission, they are the naysayers of humanities future and need to be avoided at all costs.
Although a good idea, terraforming the Moon would not be feasible. First the Moon has a very inactive central core, which is part of the process for a liveable atmosphere to be made artificially or naturally.
A more feasible appraoch would be to be facilities like is currently being built in Englang, I believe the project is called New Eden. What the project is is a combination Bio-Sphere/greenhouse.
What could be done on the Moon could be done two fold - One Earth soil
with all the microbes that make up fertile soil would be sent to the moon, where do to Photosynthesis the foliage planted in the soil brought from Earth would create condensation on the glass window or thick plexiglass
panels that would run into gutters where the water would then be collected and used to irrigate the foliage and other needs.
The second approach would be to have the same layout as above but instead of using Earth soil, Moon soil would be used. Although the result at first would be very dusty after a few light sprinklings of water to keep the dust down fertilizers could be added to enrich the Moon soil in an attempt to sustain the foliage.
A good way to test this affect is too find an old baseball diamond that has a dirt infield, drag the infield until the top layer is a dusty layer that when you walk on it, everytime you step will result in a small puff of dust or microsoil to gush from where your foot was placed.
1st - is gravity present throughout the entire universe? Most likely not do to the fact that planetary bodies produce gravity fields based on the rotation, friction and composition of a planets core. The more active a planets core or planetary bodies core is based on the mass of the core itself will generate a gravitated field proportional to the core. A larger more active core will produce a greater gravitated field, a less active core will produce a smaller gravitated field
Taking various sizes of magnets may be a way to prove this. Lay a white piece of velum paper on a table, the area will need to be large enough to have several sizes of solid magnets placed on it. place the magnets out of each others magentic field, then sprinkle some iron filings around each magnet, to find each magnets gravitated field strength, measure out from the center of the magnet to where the filings have spread out the furthest.
Now this same basic principle can be applied to solar objects. Eventually the gravitated field produced will weaken the further away from the magnet or planetary body it gets or magnetic dissapation.
What this means is that once a vessel is free from a solar systems gravtitated field, then it could be safe to operate its warp engines, otherwise if engaged while in system, the fields generated by the vessel may interact with a planetary body throwing the vessel in whatever direction.
Here is one theory that I have to create a faster or as near light speed reaction.
Lasers, now we know that lasers travel at the speed of light. What if a way were found to attach atoms to the lasers photon orbitals that would not react with the photons but when collided together with other atoms would create a burst of energy. This energy would be collided at light speed but given "for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction" the collision of the atoms would create a slower then light speed reaction due to energy bleed off. To set how fast you would go you most likely would need to find a way to add or subtract the atoms attached to the photon orbital path.
-prometheusunbound- Mars does have 1/3 the gravity that Earth does would this mean that the rail system, which would be a very effective cost adventageous means of transporting scionaughts (scientists combined with astronaughts) from their living quarters to a study site, could be manufactured with less material then the rail systems here on Earth are require to use?
Also would the rail sytems be able to provide faster speeds on Mars then on Earth given that the gravity is less on Mars?
Why not build the first interplanetry vehicle in the following manner.
First the crew module would be that of the new Apollo style modules
behind this module would a service hatch/EVA module used to dock with a space station or for vehicle repair. Behind this module would a SkyLab type module used for in flight expieriments, physical exercise storage and crew dinning facilities, this module would also serve as an emergency lifeboat if catastrophic systems failed, resulting in the need to abandon ship. Behind this module would be crew/passenger quarters. The last module would the cargo area with a mini-shuttle like bay where cargo could be easily off loaded, the cargo bay would sit underneath the the actuall bay, retractable slide panels being used for access to the cargo bay.
Behind the cargo bay module would be the fuel storage and engine assemblies. The engine assembly to be used would be a type that could give a really good intial burst of momentum and then shut to conserve fuel , but also turned back on for an added boost if needed.
If any one has 3-d software that they could render this design on, perhaps we could tweek the parameters to get what is needed.
sounds interesting, I have been wondering how this would work. We know that the sun emits bursts of energy known as solar winds that travel at greater speeds then are currenty achieveable by simple rockets. In the sailing days of old when sailors were men and the sea was home the canvas sail, the best ship captians could turn a small breeze into forward momentum. The question is how? Here's one theory. Why not construct a device like the device that runs off of the suns rays, there is a similar device that I have seen on the discovery channel and also in Pitch Black.
When sunlight contacts the solar vanes the vanes begin to turn thus turning a shaft connected to a generator that creates electricity. Now if a solar sail was set-up in the proper angle, most likely at 45 degrees from the incoming solar wind the solar wind would cause the ship to go forward, most likely at an offset path until the right amount of trim was found that would catch the solar wind just right allowing the captain to steer his ship forward. To go in reverse the sail would just need to be turned in the opposite direction.
To increase speed though some sort of reaction with the solar sails and solar winds must occure. This reaction could possible see the solar sails emitting a electromagnetic field that would help in capturing more of the solar winds
Oh yes! it's so obvious! Mars is in space, right? So it obviously has magic space dust to power our warp drives. Then we fly to planet Vulcan and have Spok teach us how to terraform the Sun. It's so simple!
This isn't the Sci-fi Channel, the laws of physics aren't re-written in a half-hour.
Grypd, I understand your argument. But you're still assuming that things are more simple than they actually are. Sure, we have the technology to build a space-elevator. But it's not worth it. There's no return on a project like that. It's a money-pit. The risk far outweighs the benefits. No company in the world would want to do anything like that.
Sounds to me like you are the type that likes to argue just for the sake of arguing, with out any worthwhile input of a benefitial nature being presented just negativety at what some one presents as more then a possibility.
The first order of business is to launch this guy out of the airlock. There's Martian politics for you.
Ancalagon has the personality of a person that if we were on Mars right now and everyone had their own corporation he would be engaged in espionage activities trying to bring to ruin all the projects that the other corporations had set up to make use of what Mars has to offer, instead of linking up with the other corporations to provide a stronger information and project development network Ancalagon would rather have a dictorial rule where he is supreme. This stems from his Napoleanic complex.
Sigh.. It's irritating when nobody listens. I'll say it again, one more time.
There is nothing of value on Mars!
Colonization of the Americas occurred because America had resources that could be shipped back to Europe. Mars has exactly no usable resources. It's only value is research for the pure sake of research. Private businesses only fund research if they think they can get something in return. It's the same reason corporations never went to the moon. There's nothing there that's worth anything.
First off America did not colonize America. How America came about was local business men grew tired and weary of a taxing king ( I think it was King George IV) who taxed everything from tea to stamps without the locals having any say in it, thus under George Washington he started a revolution better known as the Revolutionary War that those here in the states that were tired of British rule sided with Washington and broke free of British rule, after that America became America.
Mars is not the moon, Mars has polar ice caps on it. It's not some barren planet that has never had any possibility of life like Mars does, also Mars is different then Earth. We may not even know what is under the surface of Mars. There could be ore or minerals that we could mine and make new materials from that would bring about new types of technology and other applications that make life easier here on Earth. That's what going to Mars is about, advancing through discover and expansion, not staying complacent until humanity becames a swamp and then a cracked and dry lake bed.
And yes Ad astra per aspera
Politcs wouldn't be there at first, the main interest would be exploration, this would take most of the time away from how politics here on earth is, until one group of explorers found a rare ore that they could sell back on earth for a large profit. Thats when politics would be established, then someone would come along and try to establish the first Martio religion based on the political realm, then after that factions would then rise up, waring on each other, ect.
Perhaps Mars could be a testbed for a political free planet where exploration would be the norm instead of chilish notions of being the big boy on the block.
Let's say for example oxygen creating plants and trees took hold in the Martian/Earthen soil/compost farms and starting producing oxygen along with the natural gases given off by the decaying microbes and foilage, what type of interaction would possibly occure? Would the sudden release of oxygen and other gases create storm cells ? What other reactions may take place?