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Putting a station on Phobos and or Deimos is a capital idea.
Mind you, the first few flights will be round-trips. We need to leave a settlements. For resupplying, we could literally drop supplies over a certain area.
The following is a description of how a mission to Mars could unfold.
NASA, going on the new directive given in 2004 and eager to recover from the failure of one of it's Mar's Exploration Rovers partnered with the ESA and the Russians to send a mission to Mars with the intent of establishing solid infrastructure for future missions to Mars.
To this extent, they use a fleet of cargo probes propelled by ion drives to fly a massive amount of supplies into High Mars Orbit. These probes are also equipped with ground penetrating radar and will function as a Martian version of the GPS-as well as a handy way.
A twelve-man international crew is flown to Mars in a spacecraft that is assembled in Earth orbit. This spacecraft is capable of providing the astronauts inside with 1.1 G-preventing bone loss.
The mother ship is equipped with no less then three "small" craft capable of hauling supplies to and from the surface. It will also be equipped with a nuclear reactor, an ion drive, and a moderatly powerful laser. You can also add the mandatory solar panels (The laser is for taking a look at the insides of Phobos and Deimos, as well as for dealing with space-trash)
The mothership should have enough transmitting power to contact Earth and supply scientists with a torrent of data.
Upon arriving at Mars, this crew spends the first month or so actively surveying possible landing sites and unpacking the cargo probes that arrived a month before.
When a suitable spot is found, the astronauts immediatly are to review it one last time, and then begin construction of a walled settlement-part of which is underground (To protect against rocks flung by dust devils and against other weathering.) The goal of this mission will be to improve and innovate on technologies that better enable man to survive on Mars.
Also, perchance there are hostile life forms, the crew will be issued weapons-when they reach Mars (Spirit's silence has made me suspicious).
The goal of this mission will be to improve and innovate on technologies that better enable man to survive on Mars. This mission will deal primarily with issues of manufacturing processes and living off the land.
The first two missions will focus on building and maintaining infrastructure-subsequent missions will occur as opportunities arise.
On one of the missions, a female astronaut might become pregnant, since Mars is a lonely place and all. She might decide to have the child, despite the risks-making it the first human "Martian." Such a situation will be planned for.
Anyone else have ideas?
Something I have noticed about New Mars is that many of the people-myself included, like to design potential equipment for use on Mars, or the Moon. I think it would be helpful if we had a category devoted to the sharing and discussion of potential Mars Hardware.
I read recently in the news that Spirit has gone silent. NASA is baffled. This does not look good.
Hazer, do you have any proof that it's the Russians that have intentions to send only the rich people up into space? I didn't hear anything about whether or not the Russians were sending people up into space for money. All I knew was that space tourism industries were going to send people into space for a whole lot of money. That's what got me "annoyed".
Dennis Tito=first tourist in space.
Through SpaceAdventures, he got to go stay on the International Space Station after paying about twenty million dollars.
Me selling you a long limousine ride and a stay at a very expensive hotel isn't discrimination. It's a simple exchange of goods and services.
The trick is letting the limousine company or a competitor build a metaphorical Greyhound Bus.
Really though, you've got to realize that they have very little to work with, and very high launch costs.
There are probably thousands of qualified inviduals. But you must remember that they only have a few shuttles, little infrastructure and high launch costs.
I think that the Republicans are behind just letting the rich go into space while not allowing people who have enough merit to go into space when they have had a passion for space exploration all of their life.
Rich people usally have earned their money through honest means. Ian, I can see where you're coming from-I think you have a great desire to go to space, and that is why you insist on space access not being just for the rich.
The agencies have nothing to do with sending rich people up in space. The only rich people in space have been sent there by RUSSIANS-who gladly accepted twenty million dollars for the trip.
Ian, don't count on winning the lottery. With all the money you might spend and never win, you could start to invest and play the stock market.
I highly recommend that anyone interested in the effects of genetic engineering watch Gattica.
In Gattica, you have a society that has become prejudiced against genetically imperfect people. Thus, those without access to the technology, are relegated to a lower class-as companies heavily favor individuals with no genetic flaws.
Even with genetic discrimination outlawed, it still proceeds, because the companies will still find a way to NOT hire individuals who are not genetically qualified.
A national genetic database makes it all but impossible to slip through the cracks and "Borrow a ladder"
The protagonist is a man who wants to go into space. With the help of his disabled, but genetically perfect brother-he manages to slip into a company which is sending a manned flight to Titan.
He is impeccably qualified in every area, except that he's myopic and genetically impure. He also happens to be one of the only genetically unregistered individuals in the Nation.
The story unfolds, as he fakes his way through a work environ rife with genetic tests.
Personally, I have always thought that the SETI crowd are a bit wrongheaded. It is highly unlikely that they will find anything at all by listening to radiowaves from deep space.
Our data systems are based on ones and zeroes, or states of on and off-if you like it that way. We know nothing about potential extraterrestrial's data systems-or on what band of the spectrum they transmit-if at all. What if they transmit data using cosmic rays-or encoded bursts of gamma radiation? Messages from across the void of space are likely to be interpreted as static-unless by some obscenely improbably chance, they happen to develop or have developed an interface that is compatible with our antennae.
We're like indians, trying to send smoke signals to a man over the horizon-who is watching for semaphor signals. We see white objects waving, and think it to be some sort of bird. He sees smoke clouds and thinks it a forest fire.
Did I mention that our smoke signals are in Navajo and his semphor flag-waving is in Greek?
Hey, I became a Mechanical Engineering major because of my interests in Space.
Hrmm...
"I'm wondering how helpful it might be in a Martian colony to have elected intercessors (3 of them perhaps, as a council) to which troubles could be addressed and a decision handed down for bickering people who can't settle it amongst themselves."
Not that bad of an idea really, having a council of elected leaders to deal with the small issues. Of course, it might be helpful to specify that these minor judgements do not constitute actual law, and that they do not establish precedent, beyond an elected judge's taste for reviewing the decisions of past judges-thus avoiding the problems of legal-snowballing.
Could these valleys and gullies really be the product of dust flows?
I have seen some of the theory that this could be the case in some instances. I know there is water at the poles.
Glaciers carved up the Earth, could they be the result of this same process there?
Have you considered massive flows of mud triggered by a catastrophic global event? Some recent data suggests that there is subsurface water on Mars. If the water was frozen, sudden vulcanism could cause the flow of massive amounts of mud.
Well, just a quick thought on Holidays.
Martian Holidays will likely include...
1. Some sort of Holiday to Commemorate the first human landing on Mars. Happy First Landing all!
2. Days named in Honour of Mars probes.
For instance: Today is the first Viking Day! (Where we all dress up like vikings, drink beer and wrestle!-Think a St. Patrick's Day that had a train wreck with a Renaissance faire or three)
On Pathfinder day, we all run about. On the day of Spirit, we do extreme sports in commemoration of that first bouncy re-entry.
3. Other national holidays as needed.
The laser I made reference to was mounted on the wing of a B-52. You need to know where you are in relation to the target and the target's position. The rest is just calculations. True they may be bloody horrendous, but with enough computing power it would work.
But anyhow, you'd want to put it somewhere in LMO (Low Mars Orbit) along with an array of mirrors so that you could focus it past the curve of the planet.
The real issue is setting the array of satellites up.
Another thought, assuming the colonists trade with earth-how would they go about doing it?
<EDIT>
How do you think the division of labor would begin? I mean, you'll probably have a group or a person who sets up a large central powerplant, you'll have your people who do various things to regolith, and you'll have your nitrogen producers/farmers.
If I had a job on Mars, I think I'd like to be a solar-farmer and sell electric power. Of course, I would have to spend my time dusting off panels, electrolysing H20, repairing damaged cells-building fences to keep tumbling rocks from damaging my panels et cetera... Oh yeah, can't forget I'd have to maintain the power transmissions to my neighbors. After all, that food-farmer has got to have power to heat his plants.
What other professions do you think will be characteristic of an early Martian colony?
This post is the result of my reading the "Means of Production" thread. Enjoy.
Mars isn't Earth. Earth isn't Mars. What we learn on one may or may not apply on the other. But anyhow, so who will control the means of production on Mars?
Likely, it will be the person who is best at managing those means in order to make a profit. But that raises another question, in a hostile environment such as Mars, what would constitute profit?
I suspect that if there is more then one group of colonists arriving on Mars at the same time, the exchange medium will be barter to begin with. Profit initially will constitute real goods and services. Colonists will exchange commodities that they can directly use such as computer chips, earth-goods, tilapia eggs, water and electricity. One settlement might send an electrical engineer over to another settlement so that he might fix the electrical systems of that settlement.
Then, when governments begin to form-or at some other period, a commodity-such as electricity or hydrogen, will be settled upon as a medium of exchange.
"Yeah, I'll wire you a hundred ampere-hours for those drums of water."
"Make it a hundred and ten and you've got a deal."
"Alright then."
Fiat currency will come later, when there are many more people on Mars and a central government or three to enforce contracts. Remember, Earth has used Fiat currency for only about two-hundred years.
If you're talking about focusing a laser on a certain point of your autonomous rover, it shouldn't be a problem.
Cold-War era lasers (Mid 80's) were easily capable of writing someone's name on the side of an ICBM over 70 miles away traveling at a blistering 16,000 miles per hour.
Mind you, this is a laser fired from a B-52.
Beaming power with a laser isn't a bad idea, it's really just a matter of setting things up.
As I see it, the real trick would be setting up a GPS-like system of satellites for the rovers to use.
On the subject of probes, I think it would be beneficial if you had a large probe that had several smaller probes connected to it by retractable cables. I favor this approach because then you do not have to risk everything just to inspect something dangerous.
Each smaller probe would have a certain function, with some probes having the same tools in case you wanted to look at two different spots. I favor this because it allows the probe to study an area in depth.
A problem with the recent rovers has been red dust gathering on the solar panels. Multiple small rovers could alleviate this problem.
Say for instance, you give one of the microrovers a long arm with which to wipe off dust-Even better, you give the mother-rover the ability to wipe dust off itself. and deploy the smaller rovers in a power-gathering array.
America ain't France.
As I see it, this isn't about who should get to go to space-but who can earn it.
I agree that the space tourism industry is greedy. I hope that in the future they can become less greedy. Once they see our planet from space maybe they will make less greedy decisions. "I hope."
Ian, they aren't being greedy. How much does it cost to launch a Soyuz to the ISS? How much money do you think they shell out for all their hardware?
Space is obscenely expensive right now-and there's little we can do about it.
Question: Although there is very likely life on Mars, how do you make friends with microscopic life?
Give it a nice petri dish?
Beagle 2 will not find signs of life on Mars, as it has suffered a critical failure (They lost the probe).
My condolences to those involved in the misnamed craft.
You have been lied to by the governments that say there is no life on Mars. Martians live there. They are able of intelligent contact and have made some already. Even on CNN they covered a NASA story that says a statement from them claims that Martians are possibly living underground and are able to live like humans.
This Government is lying about aliens song and dance has gotten old.
Besides, the existence of Martians is very, very likely. It's just that they are very likely about the size of a paramecium.
Just because you are killed in a scientific and professional manner doesn't make it any better.
How do you think the American public would felt if our Astronauts were to die at the end of their mission?
It would drive a stake through the heart of NASA and bury it at a crossroads.
Glad this got some thought.
Mars for the Martians-when they can survive independantly of Earth.
However, the fastest way to keep them as an extension of an earth government would to be keeping them as dependant as possible.
For all who would dictate how Mars should be governed: Get there first.
So what if the rich go first?
Sixty years ago, computers were massive devices that were horribly expensive.
We let the rich climb first. After all, why should we risk our necks?
Think of them as guinea pigs-and jealousy quickly evaporates.
Space exploration shouldn't be only for the welathy elite. If it was, then not that many people would support it. It would fade away as more people heard of it but couldn't afford it. Then they would stop paying for space exploration altogether. I think that eventually people would get pissed off at space exploration becuase it would become a program where people don't earn enough merit to go into space but would just be able to bribe their way into space.
It isn't bribery. We seem to have this idea that people who go into space should be those that 'Deserve' it. Do we let people ride on airliners because they 'deserve' it?
No, they shell out a couple hundred dollars.
I don't think that space exploration should be just for the Aristocrats. Look what happened to Science in ancient Athens when democracy began to crumble becuase it was only the rich people who people thought were the only ones able to do science in their leisure time. After that Athens ceased to be a democracy. I don't support it if it's only going to be for the billionairs.
Space access should NOT be on a basis of who "Deserves it" but rather on a basis of who can "Earn it."
Some of us just want to lower the bar for "Earning it."