Space Tours - for the rich

Mark · 2003-12-28 07:19:33

Apparently there are some kind of tickets where you can get a trip into space(Earth orbit or something to that degree) for 20 million dollars. Apparently some rich people are buying these tickets to go up into space. I think this is a good thing and a way to get money which can go towards space exploration and the like. There ARE lots of rich people around who have the money to throw around to afford these kinds of trips(and not just once too). Hell, perhaps eventually they might build a space station and include a recreational section where a whole group of people could go up there and have a party(with nice viewable windows to look down at our planet below).

Rxke · 2003-12-28 07:36:36

Yes, the Russian space agency sells these tickets to fund their operations. Dennis Tito, a former space-entrepeneur, and Mark Shuttleworth both got a ticket to ISS. Mark even did some scientific research, there.

Now two new tickets have been sold, two more are still 'for grabs'

There was talk about a mini-space-station to be built by the Russians, purely for tourists and commerce, but haven't heard much since then.

Also, don't dismiss the X-Prize, although it's not orbital, what they attemt to do is the same thing the first American astronaut did: a sub-orbital launch.

X-Prize contender scaled composites just finished their first rocket-powered launch (short duration), breaking the sound barrier... I guess people would even pay for that (not 20 mil, of course!)

hopes are, of course, that popular demand drives the launch-economy, leading to ever cheaper and frequent launches, so that the 'serious' missions can benifit from the technological advances being made by private enterprize.

Mark · 2003-12-29 00:39:21

If some kind of orbital space stations/observatories/labs were built near planets say like Mars, Jupiter, Saturn or beyond within our solar system(further down the track and the speed of shuttles or space ships increases enough), they could have a section built for recreation, formal and/or casual and the rich could buy tickets to spend a night or few nights up there. Humans by nature are exploratorive species, and while some may not be huge fans of space in terms of learning all the minute details and such, those with enough money will throw it around to get a view that very few other people will ever see in their lifetimes.

Mad Grad Student · 2003-12-30 16:30:20

If you want to book a seat into space you essentially have three options. First, you can spend $20 million for a six day stay in orbit offered by the American company Space Adventures. They in turn lease a Russian Soyuz module and a stay at the ISS and you fly the mission after undergoing cosmonaut training in Star City.

Another option from Space Adventures is to book one of 1,200 seats in advance on one of their suborbital spaceplanes they plan on buying by 2009. By contrast, this costs $98,000 for 16 minutes in space. Apparently the company has a contract with three different X-Prize contenders and a solo company, but they didn't pick very well. None of the X-Prize competitors look like they'll be able to actually deliver on thier promises and the solo company, Xerus, doesn't look like it will be ready until sometime next decade.

Finally, you can make an advance purchase on any of the four or five X-Prize companies that are selling. Some of them have already started selling tickets for much needed funds, while only two, Starchaser Industries and Canadian Arrow, look like they'll actually come through and have a real business once the X-Prize is over. Canadian Arrow, the better bargain, is charging $76,000 for a ride to 70 miles in thier modernized V-2. You can check them out here.

Hope that was helpful.

Rxke · 2003-12-30 17:12:13

they didn't pick very well.

Wich ones are these? And why won't they deliver?

Mad Grad Student · 2003-12-30 19:25:23

Wich ones are these? And why won't they deliver?

Space Adventures

This is Space Adventures main website, and it shows the air/spaceplanes they plan on buying. The three companies they're considering are the Suborbital Corporation, Bristol Spaceplanes, and Pioneer Rocketplane. None of these three seem like they've done any work in the past three years, so its safe to say they're completely out of the running for the X-Prize and it will likely be a while before they enter space, if ever.

X-Prize Teams

This is a complete list of all of the X-Prize teams. Of course, the team that everyone's pretty sure will win now is Scaled Composites, the Burt Rutan company that built Voyager and the VariEze, because their hardware is the closest to completion of any company. Other solid competitiors include Starchaser Industries, using a Kerosine-LOX rocket and a paragliding capsule, Armadillo Aerospace, an extremely ameteur operation headed by John Carmack, and the Da Vinci project, which uses a gargantuian helium ballon to lift the rocket up to 80,000 feet. Scaled will likely win, but hopefully a few of the other companies will stay around long enough to have a business once the competition blows over.

Rxke · 2003-12-31 03:17:18

Thanks for the Space Adventures links, MadGradStudent, it was too deep in the night yesterday to start looking for it myself... (Lazy, lazy, lazy!)
I've been following X-Prize stuff for some time now, so i know the teams you mentioned and i think you're right, Space adventures bet on the wrong horse.

sethmckiness · 2004-01-01 08:40:15

Just a hunch too, some companies maybe being quiet in lieu of possible industrial spying. For some of these companies the 10 million and the press would be a major 'booster' to their productivity and sales.

Hazer · 2004-01-01 15:26:03

The Xprize is possibly the best pro-space idea out there. Shame it isn't very prominent.

But anyhow...

Once upon a time there was a mountain. It seemed insurmountable to those who lived in the villages around it-until one day a man named Yuri climbed the mountain.
Soon, a man from another village-by the name of Glenn climbed the mountain.
And so Yuri's village and Glenn's village had a race which Glenn eventually won.
Later the villages made peace, and began to help people from other villages to climb the slops of the mountain.
At first, only the greatest heroes were allowed to climb the mountain-using equipment that was too expensive for the common man.
Until one day, a wealthy commoner by the name of Dennis climbed the mountain with the help of Yuri's village. Soon other commoners would look up at the mountain and desire to climb it. They formed myriad groups-most of which could never get more then a third of the way up the mountain.
One day, however-a rich group of people decided to go there without asking Yuri's village, or Glenn's village for help.
Instead of climbing the rocks, they would build a trail.
Years passed, and due to their efforts-even the poor were able to climb the mountain.

Mountains are always easier to scale the second time around.

Mad Grad Student · 2004-01-02 18:43:37

I like your analogy to a mountain, Hazer. Hopefully, spce will one day become like Mount Everest is. It used to be that Everest was only the realm of extremely experienced climbers who were also mildly masochistic. Up until about ten years ago, fewer than 500 people had reached the summit, putting Everest in the same state space travel is in now. Then technology became good enough that for a price of around $50,000 anyone can be guided to the summit. Now over 2,000 people have reached the roof of the world, space could get there in the same amount of time, hopefully.

Of course, people will have to be willing to make sacrifices. One twentith of people who have attmepted Everest died in the process, giving a record worse then space (Although your odds of dying now are less than one-in-200). Additionally, 16 people died in a blizzard high on the mountain in 1996, it's practically a given that some disaster like this will happen early in commercial space travel. The real question will be how people react to it. If the run away, space is pretty much stuck where it is, but if the public perserveres the future could be surprising.

Rxke · 2004-01-02 18:56:56

Thumbs up Hazer for coming up with the analogy, thumbs up Mad Grad Student for providing some tought-provoking numbers!

This is a *great* analogy...

Rxke · 2004-01-03 18:39:24

I just visited Mircorp's site, and they are now also selling SPACEWALKS! (you have to call them, no further details...)

Their site is an internet adventure on uts own, very flashy (literally, might take a while to load if your're on dialup...)
MirCorp

BTW, that thing you see floating around, is their planned *private* mini-space station... Hmmm....

Ian · 2004-01-09 13:03:49

I don't think that space exploration should be just for the Aristocrats. Look what happened to Science in ancient Athens when democracy began to crumble becuase it was only the rich people who people thought were the only ones able to do science in their leisure time. After that Athens ceased to be a democracy. I don't support it if it's only going to be for the billionairs.

Ian · 2004-01-09 13:09:15

Space exploration shouldn't be only for the welathy elite. If it was, then not that many people would support it. It would fade away as more people heard of it but couldn't afford it. Then they would stop paying for space exploration altogether. I think that eventually people would get pissed off at space exploration becuase it would become a program where people don't earn enough merit to go into space but would just be able to bribe their way into space.

Rxke · 2004-01-09 13:43:45

But it's the wealthy paving the way, in a sense. They pay big bucks now, creating (or showing) a demand on the market, so that enterpreneurs will start offering competing 'solutions', and you know: competition brings prices down... leading to more people that can afford it, so more demand, more 'solutions' etc.

At least hat's the theory.

Ian · 2004-01-09 13:57:51

"But it's the wealthy paving the way, in a sense. They pay big bucks now, creating (or showing) a demand on the market, so that enterpreneurs will start offering competing 'solutions', and you know: competition brings prices down... leading to more people that can afford it, so more demand, more 'solutions' etc.

At least hat's the theory."

What if it doesn't happen the way you say it might? Then what?

Rxke · 2004-01-09 16:26:49

'Ordinary' travel ain't exactly cheap either, but there are always ways around that, like funded holiday camps for sick-poor-... kids, etc... Prizes you can win... so i guess it will be (waaay into the future) a bit like that.

Spacetravel will never be for 'everyone' Not in this economical reality...

But neither is 'ordinary' travel...

Mad Grad Student · 2004-01-09 21:46:13

Look at it this way. Please allow me to go back to my Everest analogy. It used to be that only the elite, best of the best climbers were even able to scale Everest. Similarly, only the best of the best test pilots were able to fly spacecraft at first. Then it opened up, slightly, to allow scientists and engineers into space, just as Everest opened up to climbers of slightly lesser skill.

By 1990, some groups got the idea of allowing clients to pay money, on the order of $150,000+, to be guided to the summit. As it became more and more popular, the price went down, do around $50,000 by 1996. While under 400 people had reached the top by 1990, over 2,000 have now, putting down + or - $30,000. It's opened up so far that people have done crazy things now, like snowboard, hang glide, and para-glide down to base camp.

In short, space will probably develop the same way. Now only a few wealthy people of reasonable fittness have gone into space, but soon others of more limited means may follow. With any luck we'll pass the 1,000 mark (Of people in space) by 2007 or so. Under Bush's plan we could be back on the Moon shortly after, we should defenatley stay tuned to the future.

Hazer · 2004-01-09 21:54:41

Space exploration shouldn't be only for the welathy elite. If it was, then not that many people would support it. It would fade away as more people heard of it but couldn't afford it. Then they would stop paying for space exploration altogether. I think that eventually people would get pissed off at space exploration becuase it would become a program where people don't earn enough merit to go into space but would just be able to bribe their way into space.

It isn't bribery. We seem to have this idea that people who go into space should be those that 'Deserve' it. Do we let people ride on airliners because they 'deserve' it?
No, they shell out a couple hundred dollars.

I don't think that space exploration should be just for the Aristocrats. Look what happened to Science in ancient Athens when democracy began to crumble becuase it was only the rich people who people thought were the only ones able to do science in their leisure time. After that Athens ceased to be a democracy. I don't support it if it's only going to be for the billionairs.

Space access should NOT be on a basis of who "Deserves it" but rather on a basis of who can "Earn it."
Some of us just want to lower the bar for "Earning it."

Rxke · 2004-01-10 04:10:03

Spacedaily has an interview with Eric Anderson of Space Adventures, the company that made the first tourists in space a reality. They're also talking about future stuff...Spacedaily

Shaun Barrett · 2004-01-10 06:30:25

Thanks for that link, Rxke.
It all sounds very upbeat and optimistic; like there are things going on behind the scenes and a sudden flowering of commercial spaceflight is at hand.
Very exciting!

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-10 07:50:16

Very sensible post Mad Grad Student, I'd always felt that same exact way. Space is for everyone who can get there.

Ian · 2004-01-12 08:49:57

I don't think that it's good to give preferential treatment to the rich and trap those who have less money here on Earth. Have any of you read Thomas Pain's "Common Sense"?

Ian · 2004-01-12 08:54:59

What would happen if only the rich people got to Mars? Then there would be a ruling rich elite on Mars and then what would happen if the people who come there next when and if the prices go down don't want to be ruled by these elite people? Then we would have conflicts on Mars where the people would want a democracy instead of something like a monarchy.

Rxke · 2004-01-12 09:13:34

Don't want to sound too cynical, here, but on Earth it's also not the poor that rule...

We live in a world with artificial scarcity as the economical motor, and it works just fine for those that get fat on this system, they're not going to change that for some 'leftie' ideology, i'm afraid...

Common sense? No, they read G*R*E*E*D Magazine... Never heard of that rag? Just proves you're not filthy rich!
(I made that up, but you get the point...)

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#1 2003-12-28 07:19:33

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#2 2003-12-28 07:36:36

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#3 2003-12-29 00:39:21

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#4 2003-12-30 16:30:20

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#5 2003-12-30 17:12:13

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#6 2003-12-30 19:25:23

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#7 2003-12-31 03:17:18

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#8 2004-01-01 08:40:15

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#9 2004-01-01 15:26:03

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#10 2004-01-02 18:43:37

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#11 2004-01-02 18:56:56

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#12 2004-01-03 18:39:24

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#13 2004-01-09 13:03:49

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#14 2004-01-09 13:09:15

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#15 2004-01-09 13:43:45

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#16 2004-01-09 13:57:51

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#17 2004-01-09 16:26:49

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#18 2004-01-09 21:46:13

Re: Space Tours - for the rich

#19 2004-01-09 21:54:41

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#20 2004-01-10 04:10:03

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#21 2004-01-10 06:30:25

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#22 2004-01-10 07:50:16

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#23 2004-01-12 08:49:57

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#24 2004-01-12 08:54:59

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#25 2004-01-12 09:13:34

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