New Mars Forums

Phobos wrote:  "I hope they eventually design one that's so comfortable and flexible that you almost forget your wearing one."

*Maybe the designers of the spacesuit could also take a cue from Frank Herbert, and create a suit which captures and recycles the body's moisture.  <shrug>

--Cindy

Here's a partial list of books I'd recommend (in no particular order):

1.  Nightfall, by Isaac Asimov.
2.  Prometheus Rising, by Robert Anton Wilson.
3.  Candle in the Dark, by Carl Sagan.
4.  The Philosophical Dictionary, by Voltaire.
5.  The Portable Voltaire Reader, by J. R. Redman.
6.  Spirit of the Laws, Montesquieu.
7.  Two Treatises on Government, by John Locke.
8.  Essays Concerning Human Understanding, by John Locke.
9.  Common Sense, by Thomas Paine.
10. The Age of Reason, by Thomas Paine.
11. Collected Works of Voltaire, by World Classics Library, Bobley.
12. The Age of Voltaire, by Ariel & Will Durant.
13. Rousseau and Revolution, by Ariel & Will Durant.
14. The Portable Enlightenment Reader, Viking/Penguin.

--Cindy

qw <--- those letters courtesy my kitten, who patted the keyboard to say "hello" to you all, apparently 

Shaun wrote:  "I sympathise with Cindy's point of view but, a viable colony on Mars or anywhere else is at least decades away ... probably 50 years at best."

*I'm hoping to see a landing on Mars within my lifetime.  But, yes, colonization itself is still a ways off.

"Let's put all this nonsense to the back of our minds and go to Mars for the right reasons: Because we're curious and because we need to explore. Those are the best reasons!"

*True    Agreed!

--Cindy

Clark wrote:  "####, the whole concept of Zubrin's message is based on "nothing wasted". A vacum sealed mummy on mars is a testiment to another time of human thinking- our bodies are part of the environment, not seperate. It is our identity, not our bodies- out self- that is important."

*Well, it seems to me that colonists initially will have only two options:  Bury the dead or use them as I'd have my body used; that is, until and if a crematorium could be created -- and apparently the cremation process takes a lot of energy which colonists probably wouldn't be able to "afford."

"Before any disagree, I ask you this- are you less than who you are minus your arm? Your leg? Your eyes?

If the body parts do not make you less, than why should the destruction of the entire body in a manner not of your own choosing be any worse after you have passed on? The parts do not make us- they are merely the physical extensions upon which we rely in order to work our will in the world."

*I have a difference of opinion here.  Being minus an arm or a leg doesn't make a person less of a person; however, it does alter their lifestyle and capabilities.  My husband is disabled from an accident in 1984.  There are many things he could do if it weren't for his partially paralyzed left hand.  He's not the same person he was prior to the accident, in many ways, and his quality of life isn't as good.

I see the point you are trying to make; however I feel the topic of disability (loss of eyesight, loss of limb) is a different one than that of what to do with a corpse on Mars.

The early colonists will have to be especially practical, and old habits carried over from Earth will have to be discarded *pronto*.  There won't be many luxuries, needless to say.  I think of all the land taken up by cemeteries.  And lest anyone think I'm being rude or insensitive, I myself have relatives/ancestors buried in cemeteries, of course.  Now my family is extremely spread out; the last time I visited my father's grave (985 miles away) was in 1993.  I have no close relatives in that area, it's not anywhere near my hometown (which isn't where I currently reside), etc.  I loved my father, but I don't want to travel nearly 1000 miles to see a headstone.  My other deceased relatives are even further away.  Thus, how often does the average US citizen -- a nation so large and consisting of many persons who have moved far away from their birth place -- go to cemeteries to pay respect to the dead?  As Earth's population continues to grow -- and land becomes more and more scarce -- cemeteries may be seen in the future as an unnecessary vanity; cremation may become more in vogue. 

On Mars, there will be even less options in this regard...at least initially.  Alot of old Earth customs and habits will be in for a major overhaul for sure.

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01.

Peter writes/asks:

Some important questions here...
-- How many crew?

*Enough to cover technological, scientific, medical/surgical, etc., needs...survival basics must be covered, perhaps staff cross-trained.

-- How important is it that they have previous spaceflight experience?

*I'd say very important.  Each person should have qualifications in this regard.

-- What scientific disciplines should be represented?

*Engineering, astronomy, biomedical, geography, nutritionist...

-- In what proportion should the genders be represented?

*I say sending the best, most qualified/highly trained people irregardless of gender ratio is most important.  However, a crew would probably get along better with at least one member of the opposite sex being present among the majority gender.

-- Should an attempt be made to represent nationalities/races/ethnicities evenly?

*No.  "Political correctness" shouldn't have any part of the mission.  Only the best qualified, well trained, intelligent and capable members should be given the mission -- regardless of skin color or ancestry.

-- What about religion, for that matter?

*I say each crew member take their religious beliefs -- or lack thereof -- with them, and keep them to themselves unless asked to do otherwise by a crewmate.

-- Should any portion of the crew should be military?

*Don't know.

-- What should the "chain of command" look like?

*Brad Pitt.    Seriously...I'm not that familiar with patterns/outlines for "chains of command" in military or quasi-military scenarios...sorry.

Should there be one at all?

*Yes.  People work better as a team when positions relative to each other are known and understood; a military background would be a bonus here.  Cooperation will be vital.  In the event of an emergency or stressful situation, everyone automatically knows who will give the orders/make the decisions, and how -- and by who -- they will be carried out.  A sense of comraderie must also be nutured.

Of course, I might not know what the heck I'm talking about...
???

--Cindy

I'm wondering about the comfort-level of life on Mars, considering how cold it is.  I've read that the average *high* temperature (in Fahrenheit) is near the equator, approximately 64 degrees?  But doesn't Mars have more of an ellipitical orbit than Earth?  Sure, it'll be warm in the habitats and space suits (if someone should want to wander outdoors), but I'm wondering how cold the *warmest* parts of Mars will be when the planet is furthest from the sun in its orbital path.

And what effect will the cold temps have on terraforming (unless vegetable/plant life will always be grown in domes)?  If the atmosphere of Mars can be manipulated into becoming more rich and thick -- sounds like coffee...okay, so I'm not a scientist! -- will that warm the planet up a bit?

--Cindy

Check out my Enlightenment era mailing list!  ageofvoltaire-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Peter wrote:  "There are some very interesting religious offshoots to your question, Phobos, given that an early colony is likely to be made up of people of many different faiths, each with its own rituals and beliefs regarding death.  In the harsh environment of a Martian base or colony, would those beliefs be subordinated to basic survival, a la the floating colony in Waterworld?"

*This is an interesting topic.  I'd say chances are good that, at least in the earliest stages of Mars exploration/colonization, what to do with a corpse would be dependent upon sheer practicality.

Supposing one of the first astronauts on Mars, of the Roman Catholic faith, were to die, how could last rites be administered?  Or a proper Catholic funeral?  Would he or she be considered out of the grace/dispensation of the church in the event these particulars could not be attended to, since there is not a priest present?  The same could go for Jewish services, Islamic rites, etc.  For some folks, this is very serious stuff...and I respect their rights to these sentiments.

As for me; well, were I to die on Mars, just do what's useful and in the best interest of all...even if it means my corpse can help grow corn

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

This was Adrian's idea -- and a great one!   

I'll type in my list a bit later...am pressed for time right now!

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Clark:

I just now read your reply to many of our replies.  I've not read _TSC_ in its entirety, so I'm hesitant to chime in much further.  Based on what I have read both by and of Rousseau, he was (to me, at any rate) an extremely complex man.  I have areas of agreement with him, but more areas of disagreement.  In all fairness, I think Rousseau, in many respects, had sincere intentions toward the betterment of the human race; however, he tended to be impractical and sometimes unrealistic, IMO.  What is most fascinating about Rousseau, to me, is how he and Voltaire contrast one another.

However, here's an item from my Enlightenment mailing list (JJR is included, of course) in my Bookmarks section (I wrote the Bookmark quoted below), which you and others may be interested in:

Rousseau Association
Though I'm not a fan of JJR, this is a very worthwhile web site. Snipets of his musical compositions are available for listening at this site, and are lovely. Do enjoy!
http://www.wabash.edu/Rousseau/

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Hi Peter:  I have read "Demon-Haunted World."   

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Peter wrote:  "I'd probably add to that the work of Karl Barth, John Warwick Montgomery, and (believe it or not) Nietzsche.  I'm a study in contrasts.

[Edit:  I almost forgot S?ren Kierkegaard!]"

Hi Peter:

Though I'm not *yet* well-versed in the following philosophers, I'd also take the works of Montesquieu and John Locke.  The USA Founding Fathers said they drew mostly upon Montesquieu's writings when drawing up the Constitution (and I presume also the Bill of Rights).  John Locke was also considered a "patron saint" of the Enlightenment by his intellectual colleagues.

--Cindy

Mars Society member since 6/01

P.S.:  Everyone is welcome to inquire with me privately regarding my Enlightenment era mailing list!

"Star Trek:  The Motion Picture."

What especially attracts me to this film is VGER's unrelenting persistence -- even demand -- to learn more, evolve further, etc.  Coupled with the charm and smartness of "Star Trek," it's an unbeatable combination.

Of course, William Shatner was never hard on the eyes, either 

--Cindy