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#1 2002-05-03 15:15:48

Anton Kuratnik
Member
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 31

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Here is an interesting webpage (skimmed through it, so don't blame me if it's bs). Tells how to colonize asteroids. :0

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#2 2002-05-06 13:33:33

Omer Joel
Member
From: Quiriat Tivon, Israel
Registered: 2002-05-03
Posts: 23

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Here is the link to "PERMANENT", a site dedicated to lunar/near-earth astroid mining and colonization:
PERMANENT

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#3 2002-05-07 16:53:44

Anton Kuratnik
Member
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 31

Re: Colonizing asteroids

my list of favorites grows longer and longer every day. heh.

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#4 2002-05-08 05:08:50

Christina
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2002-05-07
Posts: 59

Re: Colonizing asteroids

At least he advocates getting Inside the asteroid to create a habitat. Then the centrifugal force will create at least a partial gravity.


the early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese

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#5 2002-05-08 16:21:09

Anton Kuratnik
Member
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 31

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Good point there. One thing though, why do we need to colonize asteroids? They are just flying around and we don't have any control over them...

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#6 2002-05-09 18:12:30

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I'm wondering myself what the point is to colonizing asteriods if your just gonna mine the things to death.  By the time you built the colony the asteroid would prolly have already been pulverized into crushed rock anyhow.  It would probably be easier just to build small space stations in orbit around Mars and transport them to the places you want to mine since most asteroids are small in area anyway.  But really, I get the feeling that once we get the technology to mine asteroids there probably won't be a need for a human presence, the machinery will just do all of the work itself.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#7 2002-05-10 20:04:36

Anton Kuratnik
Member
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 31

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Yes indeed. Although I never heard of mining steroids. Well anyway. I think colonizing asteroids is as pointless as colonozing comets, and almost as dangerous.

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#8 2002-05-11 01:44:43

Christina
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2002-05-07
Posts: 59

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Mining asteroids is a SciFi staple for getting raw materials.
As is attaching engines to them to bring them to earth for processing.

I suppose the Iron rich ones would be useful, but we'd have to have made a real mess of recycling down here to make it economically viable, surely?


the early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese

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#9 2002-05-11 12:58:27

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Mining asteroids might prove economically feasible in the far future if the outer/middle solar system is ever colonized.  It would be a lot easier just to mine what you need off asteroids than to haul raw materials all the way from Earth.  Anyways, I think it might prove more environmentally sound to mine asteroids as you won't have to rip up the Earth so much to get the materials you need.  This is why I've always been a little puzzeled why so many environmentalists hate the idea of
space flight.  Wouldn't it be better to rip up a dead rock floating in space then to compromise Earth's ecosystem?


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#10 2002-05-11 15:04:10

Anton Kuratnik
Member
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 31

Re: Colonizing asteroids

or mars... Mars is so rich in Iron that it'll take millions of years to mine it all out. And since it's dead anyway... I think Mars will be an industrial planet if we ever colonize it.

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#11 2002-05-11 23:47:19

RobS
Member
From: South Bend, IN
Registered: 2002-01-15
Posts: 1,701
Website

Re: Colonizing asteroids

The other useful kind of asteroid is the chondritic type, which is rich in water. It could be mined to create hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel, probably more cheaply than hauling the fuel from the Earth's surface.

I suspect within twenty years most of the mining will be automated, though a human crew may need to visit every few years to set up new equipment, repair broken equipment, and possibly haul away broken things that can be repaired and reused cheaply. The fuel for the human crew can probably be made from the asteroid; even nickel-iron asteroids may have some water.

I am less certain how quickly we will move asteroids to earth orbit for processing. The dangers of an asteroid accidentally hitting the Earth and wiping out a city would be too great, and even if it could be reduced, the fear would remain.

                    -- RobS

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#12 2002-05-15 13:41:36

Christina
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2002-05-07
Posts: 59

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Just a girlie thinking out loud, but, would mining and reducing the density of asteroids, or hauling them out of their orbits completely to mine elsewhere, potentially create variances in the orbits of other nearby asteroids and ruining all those carefully calculated orbits we've got at the moment?


the early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese

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#13 2002-05-15 15:36:30

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

It's probably safe to say that if you gut an asteroid the reduced mass will definately affect other objects in its vicinity.  As for screwing up all the orbital data, that should be a blast, I never thought of that before. smile  Really tho, there's so much debris floating around out there we probably don't have orbital data on 99% of it.  And anyways, it could give some bored mathematicians something to do in recalculating orbits.   Makes you wonder if there might actually develop a new profession for calculating the orbits of small objects in the vicinity of mining operations.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#14 2002-05-26 12:56:51

Anton Kuratnik
Member
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 31

Re: Colonizing asteroids

wow, good point with the miscalculations there. Anyway, I think what they will do is instead of shipping those asteroids to Earth's orbit, they will use some other planet like Jupiter. Jupiter can hold bigger asteroids, too. And if a miscalculation happens, there is nothing on Jupiter that we really care about (excpet for the storm thingie).

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#15 2002-05-27 13:17:46

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I bet you could throw the entire asteroid belt into that Jovian storm and it will still act like nothing happened.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#16 2002-05-29 18:51:17

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Asteroids are actually quite far from each other on average and have very weak gravitational fields. Hollowing one out is unlikely to have any effect at all on any other celestial bodies, near or far.
   I think the effort involved in converting one of them to a habitable outpost would mean wanting to control its path. So you would have to incorporate some means of altering its orbit. Probably just an electromagnetic mass driver using  some of the asteroid itself as reaction mass would be easiest, or if it's chondritic as RobS mentioned, there'd be ample hydrogen/oxygen rocket fuel. The reason I bring this up is because I assume that collisions in the asteroid belt must be relatively common compared to the more sparsely populated regions of the solar system and a collision could be very serious for any inhabitants of an asteroid!
   Putting all that aside, and ignoring debate about whether inhabiting an asteroid is a desirable thing in the first place, I think we might well have trouble with the integrity of asteroid material. We don't have any real notion of how cohesive they are and whether a hollowed out one, caused to rotate once every minute or two with people living on the inner surface, might simply tear itself apart! Each individual asteroid would have to be examined carefully for faults and fissures, some of which may be difficult to detect.
   I think just using the asteroid material to build more "conventional" and structurally more reliable space stations is likely to be the easier path.
                                                          smile


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#17 2002-05-29 21:34:04

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I never thought of the possibility of asteroids tearing themselves apart because their shells were to weak.  I'm definately gonna think twice now before living on an asteroid.   Really though, I can think of one good use for colonizing an asteroid maybe.  If you wanted to set up a manned station around the inner planets of Jupiter the asteroid might provide good cover from radiation, but then again maybe it'd just fly apart and get everybody killed anyway. smile


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#18 2002-06-04 11:46:21

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Phobos wrote:  "I'm wondering myself what the point is to colonizing asteriods if your just gonna mine the things to death.  By the time you built the colony the asteroid would prolly have already been pulverized into crushed rock anyhow."

*Yeah.  And then there's the disorientation factor...at least for me.  It's going to be enough of a challenge for the first Marsian colonists to get used to the sun being that much smaller in the sky, a stark landscape absolutely devoid of any fauna or flora, and our moon not being in the sky going through its phases.

The thought of living on an *asteroid* is unimaginable to me.  At least Mars is a planet, with two moons (even if they are weirdly shaped).

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01.

Check out my Enlightenment era mailing list!  ageofvoltaire-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#19 2002-06-04 14:43:04

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

*Yeah.  And then there's the disorientation factor...at least for me.  It's going to be enough of a challenge for the first Marsian colonists to get used to the sun being that much smaller in the sky, a stark landscape absolutely devoid of any fauna or flora, and our moon not being in the sky going through its phases.

It would probably be amazing the things people would miss being on Mars that they never even gave a single thought about on Earth.  I think I'd miss the freedom of being able to walk any where on Earth without a spacesuit the most.  I hate the idea of wearing space suits.  I hope they eventually design one that's so comfortable and flexible that you almost forget your wearing one.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#20 2002-06-04 15:55:24

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Phobos wrote:  "I hope they eventually design one that's so comfortable and flexible that you almost forget your wearing one."

*Maybe the designers of the spacesuit could also take a cue from Frank Herbert, and create a suit which captures and recycles the body's moisture.  <shrug>

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#21 2002-06-05 04:21:50

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

*Maybe the designers of the spacesuit could also take a cue from Frank Herbert, and create a suit which captures and recycles the body's moisture.  <shrug>

--Cindy

Talking about moisture, I wonder if they'll ever develop Martian survival kits that enable you to extract water from that icy layer that's supposedly only a meter or so deep.  You might have to crush rocks to free up ice to get at the water, but it would be nice having something like that if you get lost or stranded or whatever.  Of course you'd have to have some kind of interface on your spacesuit that allowed you to drink the water.  Anyways, would you be willing to be the first human to drink Martian water that was only run through a consumer model water purifier?


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#22 2002-06-05 10:23:51

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Phobos wrote:  "...Anyways, would you be willing to be the first human to drink Martian water that was only run through a consumer model water purifier?"

Yes, though I can't say I'd be overly excited about it wink

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#23 2002-06-05 10:55:45

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Yes, though I can't say I'd be overly excited about [drinking Martian water that was only run through a consumer model water purifier].[/quote:post_uid5]

Aaah. How can you say that! sad

Martian water would be extremely pure...


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

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#24 2002-06-05 21:37:07

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Phobos wrote:  "...Anyways, would you be willing to be the first human to drink Martian water that was only run through a consumer model water purifier?"

Yes, though I can't say I'd be overly excited about it

I think I could feel a jolt of sudden excitement knowing that Mars is flowing around in me, but then I guess I'm easily amused. smile


Aaah. How can you say that!

Martian water would be extremely pure...

Wouldn't you want to get all the gravel and things like that out of it though?  If it's ice it might have all kinds of foreign matter in it that didn't get a chance to settle to the bottom.  But really if your gonna be the first to take a swig of the stuff you might as well take it with everything it comes with!  Pure Mars!  smile


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#25 2002-06-05 22:53:44

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Colonizing asteroids

NAHHH!! I still think you're going to find bacteria in it.
   
   It doesn't seem to matter how often I champion the cause of a living Mars, it appears most people are convinced it's sterile.

   Maybe it's me who's nuts!! ..... Hey! .... I heard that!!

   By the way. What's all this got to do with colonising asteroids?
                                     :0


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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