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If Mars had remained hospitable to life, I think there would be a lot more members of the Mars Society than there currently is. Von Braun would probably have seen a Martian base in his lifetime simply because the Cold War players wouldn't have let a whole, habitable planet slip through their fingers and it would be a lot easier to excite the public over a new "Eden." If the countries didn't succeed in the early years of spaceflight, the greater ecological awareness that exists today may have led to treaties forbidding a human presence on Mars, except for maybe a few research bases scattered about like in Antartica.
There's more than a few people in my neighborhood who also like to glare whole colonies of lights all night long. If security is the reason for the lighting, they'd do everyone a favor if they'd use lights tripped by motion detectors.
Since civilization feels it must put a streetlight wherever it can, I wish they'd use red lights to reduce the effects. I brought up light pollution the other day and just got laughed at. Non-star gazers just don't realize that beautiful part of nature they're destroying.
Australia's political climate has me somewhat confused. It seems to exist at both extremes. You have green representatives on one end and, from my impression, a very right wing Prime Minister. Howard and Bush seem very similiar politically, and Howard even motivated Kim Jong Il to threaten to point nukes at the Aussies, which causes me to ask, do Australians have a generally good opinion of Howard or is he likely going to face defeat at the hands of a more socialist candidate at the next elections?
I also heard some days ago that Russia was working on a vertically launched transport that would take people from Moscow to New York in one hour. They estimated the price of the tickets to be about $10,000 per passenger. Whether they'll actually pull it off I don't know, but in the archives at Astronautix.com, there's a Mig project about a similiar system for military uses. Wonder if they're actually going to attempt to build it.
I think we should be very discreet about landing nuclear powered vehicles on surfaces where people or other life might inhabit. A few pounds of plutonium might not seem dangerous on a planetary scale, but keep in mind that it's one of the most toxic substances out there. If you inhale even a few atoms of it, your chances of getting cancer are very near 100%. Anyhow, RTGs don't develop a whole lot of power, usually a few hundred watts if that.
I agree with Josh, I think second or third gen settlers would adapt to their situation since they wouldn't really know anything else. After all, we see rich people in movies, etc, living up the high life but how many of us really relate or come to the conclusion that we can't go on because we saw someone living a "better" life? Honestly, I think Martians might have some social advantages over us Earthlings since they're a lot less likely to be alienated from each other or overtaken with pathological materialism. They'll truly depend on each other to survive, which I think will breed cooperation rather than the cut-throat competition us on Earth have to contend with.
I just went outside to see if I could see any aurora, but all I saw were thick clouds. How far south are you? I'm at roughly 40 degrees latitude, probably too far South.
I believe any species that develops advanced technology will have an aggressive streak simply because developing technology is an aggressive activity. It's about obtaining mastery and control over nature and your fellow beings. The fact that the military has been such a strong driver of new technology throughout the millenia of human history is good evidence of that. So, unless the beings we meet are primitive and that way willingly, then we will likely see that we aren't alone in having genes for aggression.
It's still being debated whether molecular manufacturing is even possible. All those stocks you're talking about are probably due to structural/materials "nanotech" like better window coatings or whatever.
Rxke, I read your comment at the site before it was deleted and admit to finding it odd that the webmaster of a pro-MS website would delete a comment that defends Zubrin against a cynic. I don't particularly like Zubrin, but Simberg's attack seemed like a juvenile cheapshot.
You can read the book for free at the Foresight website. Drexler wrote an additional book on nanotech assemblers called "Nanosystems: Molecular Machinery, Manufacturing, and Computation." I haven't read it yet but it's gotten good reviews at Amazon. What's scary is that if this technology becomes possible, disgruntled individuals could potentially wipe out all life on Earth. Richard Smalley, who got a Nobel in chemistry, thinks nanoassemblers are impossible but some think his reasoning is flawed.
Cindy said:
*Yeah. Rand overstepped herself, IMO. She also wrote an extensive treatise pertaining to art and her conception of what art "is." For instance, she disapproved of impressionists. I asked a former friend, a 60-something artist in Oregon, what he thought of her opinion. He stated his view that Impressionism is the reply to photography, i.e. what's the point of painting everything in precise and fine detail, when photos do that...Impressionism is the response.
I haven't read Rand's essay, but let me guess, she says that art must uplift the human spirit and its grand potential and that realism is the only way to do that? On the flip side, there was one philosopher in the 19th Century (can't remember his name) that believed that true art had to revolve around the misery of life since he believed that the human condition was synonymous with tragedy and suffering. I think art can fit into either category and then some. That artist you talked to though I think captured the essence of what art is, it's pushing the boundaries of experience, emotion, and perception.
Shaun said:
I guess it's part of human nature to fall into the trap of categorising people who don't agree with you on some things. The next step is to demonise them and vilify them, which comes easily once you have them categorised. The trouble is, when we really get to know them, most people just don't squeeze into those little boxes we make for them.
I suspect, Free Spirit, that you and I aren't nearly as far apart on basic philosophy as you might think. We just see different solutions to the same problems, that's all.
I agree that the first step toward hate is categorizing people according to stereotypes. It was stupid of me not to realize that people may have different motivations for meeting the infamous scumbags of history. I'm not a MS member, I don't believe we should be wasting resources sending people to Mars, and I find Zubrin's political philosophy repulsive. And to be honest, I'm wary of high technology. The more technological we become the more likely we are to either destroy ourselves or become more oppressed. Sustainability and good stewardship of the Earth is what we should strive for, not endless technological development and irrelevant flights of fancy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy discussing technical possibilities but don't construe that to mean I think we should necessarily build such things.
Cobra Commander said:
Hitler was a vegetarian. Now that's a bumper sticker I need to get.
I really don't understand why some people out there are so hell bent on destroying the environment. When you consider that it takes 700 gallons of water and acres of land just to produce one cheeseburger, it seems like it should just be common sense that vegetarianism is better for the planet. Just because Hitler was a vegetarian doesn't mean that all vegetarians are genocidal maniacs.
Rand has some compelling ideas, which I think are worthy of consideration (especially John Galt's speech in _Atlas Shrugged_). However, her ideas about individualism tend to be extreme, IMO. She seemed to believe that you CAN be AN ISLAND if you choose.
I believe Ayn Rand did give some proper perspectives on the dangers of authoritarian, Stalinist-style "collectivism".
Have you read the novel Ecotopia by any chance? The type of collective, de-centralized society presented in that novel is a lot closer to what I think communism should be like, libertarian-communism.
Visiting a mailing list or newgroup run by Objectivists and ARI members will usually result very quickly in "AGREE OR ELSE -- ENTIRELY!" attitudes. I found that out the hard way, a few years ago. That's not who I am, and is why I prefer the Enlightenment philosophers; they were generally a pretty flexible, open-minded bunch
Objectivists like to fashion themselves as being masters of logic and reason, but I agree with you, they seem more blinded by ideology and emotion than the supposedly irrational, tree hugging, pinko-commies they hate so much. They act as though any way of living that opposes capitalism automatically runs counter to reason and logic. If the only way to be reasonable and civilized is to have banks, corporations, lawyers, and a$$hole employers, then I'd much rather be an uncivilized savage living out in nature.
Can't wait until every town on Earth has it's own poorly guarded reactor that runs without supervision. Terrorists must be rubbing their hands together in anticipation of all those dirty bombs they could build and what to do with all that additional nuclear waste. :angry:
I'd go back in time and have dinner with some pre-historic cave dwellers. Maybe go hunt an elk for dinner and learn how to tan hides and do some flint knapping.
Shaun, what's the deal with Hitler and Caesar? You're a right wing fanatic for sure, but I hope your list is just a sign of a warped sense of humor rather than an actual desire to meet those fascists for dinner. I guess you and Zubrin would be good drinking buddies eh? You two appear to be very similiar politically wise, unfortunately.
Cindy, I'm surprised Ayn Rand is on your list. That's the type of right wing fanatic I'd expect to see on Shaun's list. I think you should invite Karl Marx to dinner also. At least we could enjoy watching Ayn Rand and Marx go at each other's throats. Voltaire could weigh the arguments and declare the winner of the bout. Don't think Rand would stand a chance though.
Clark wants to meet Nero. Hope it's not because he wants pointers on how to burn down a town when politics aren't going your way.
Who is Marshall Savage? The name is familiar but fuzzy.
Cindy's not kidding, there will be no shortage of Marlin steaks to go around tomorrow. If the spectators wouldn't have screwed up that catch tonight the Marlins would've already been on the grill. As for the diamondbacks, they're just another mediocre backwoods Mcteam that lacks the rich history of a franchise like the Cubs. The diamondbacks are a team that few could love or hate. I do like that new stadium they built though. I'll visit it sometime when the Cubs arrive to do some baseball practice for the real games.
Woohoo, the Cubs better wrap this thing up in game six or my body is going to explode from the adrenaline overload. Hopefully Beckett misses his next flight to Chicago. Go Cubs!
Some people think that in 100 years nanotech might be so advanced that you wouldn't need to grow food anymore, you'd just create it from a bank of molecules. If technology like that happens a lot of people might survive. It could be too that space transportation won't be so reliant on technology like rockets, maybe super massive space tethers or even some totally exotic form of propulsion will make it as easy and cheap to get into outer space as a plane ticket is today. If tech doesn't advance much I doubt even moving into space will save us from extinction. Imagine the in-breeding that would occur. I have to say though, living in the promixity of Yellowstone, it didn't exactly cheer me up to read your message.
That second picture is a giant trilobyte that adapted to Mars' evaporating oceans by growing so huge its body would have enough surface area to soak up moisture. We have to be careful to avoid sending people to these areas of Mars to prevent them from becoming snacks for these beasts. So Mr. Barrett, as you can see, that picture on the bottom is clearly not a crater or sand dune as you mistakenly assert.
Well, it is a sign that the government is aware that space technologies are developing rapidly and that people maybe going into space sooner than later in a non-government capacity. At least it appears that the government is willing to allow private spacefarers to go into space in the first place since the bill specifically mentions adding private human spaceflight to some other regulations. The bill IS an indication of that.
I thought some of you might be interested in the above bill which seeks, for better or worse, to make regulations more favorable to commercial space activities, including human spaceflight (refer to Section 3(b)] Perhaps the question we should be asking now is whether space should be open to those who are motivated only by profit. Not surprisingly, the bill was authored by Rep. Rohrabacher who referred to the opponents of genetically modified foods as lunatics, slammed the suggestion that citizen juries should decide whether new technologies are fit to enter society, and supports ANWR oil drilling. :angry:
California always seemed like a very progressive state. How disappointing that it recalled the governor and put a Republican in the office. I can see why the upper class and well to do would vote Republican in order to "protect" their wealth as much as they can, but why on Earth would ordinary workers want to risk their benefits, minimum wage, education, etc. by electing a right winger? Let's hope it's just a temporary bout of insanity. :angry:
Poor Mercury. It seems everybody wants to either light it on fire, smash it into other planets, draw it off into other orbits, rip it to shreds for its iron content, or some other ghastly act. Of course Mother Earth is having to endure a lot of that on a daily basis. We should treat Earth as though there are no other planets or resources in the Solar System to save us when we inevitably screw everything up down here.