2nd-Generation Marsians

Palomar · 2003-11-04 10:59:45

*We've touched, in the past, on educating the children of Marsian colonists, their clothing needs, etc. I don't recall us discussing the following in much depth, however:

What if 2nd-generation Marsians resent being on Mars and yearn for the more numerous opportunities life on Earth presents? Unless they are frequently allowed and able to exercise in near-Earth-like conditions and have the means to blast-off from Mars for Earth (is there a chance the 1st Marsian colony will have a launch pad and Earth-ready spacecraft "out back"? I doubt it), they will be "stuck."

What then?

We'd want to avoid a Mars colony becoming cult-like, right? Don't want to brain-wash them into acceptance. Too much social conditioning (i.e. "you like this...you know you do") has a tendency to backfire.

I've been mulling this over for a while. Can't claim to have any answers, but am curious to see where this might go and for your input.

The 1st-generation Marsians will have gone to Mars via volitional choice. This won't be the case for their kids. Sure, some of the kids will doubtless be thrilled (especially in the historical context) and want to follow in mom and pop's bootprints...but there are always the restless and the "misfits."

--Cindy

Byron · 2003-11-04 13:41:06

Honestly, I do think this could be a problem, unless the colonists live in an extremely well-ordered society. Kids, being what they are, will not necessarily share the same interests and passions of their parents. Of course, some of them will, but there will always be a percentage of bona-fide rebels in any given population of people.

The main problem will be probably not being to travel by rocket to Earth, as there will likely be a continuous flow of Earth-Mars traffic, but the fact that natives will have such a hard time coping with the crushing gravity of Earth. Unless the children grow up in a 1-gee centifuge, their bodies are going to adapt to Mars gravity, not Earth's. Whether the Mars children will resent this, I have no idea. I have a feeling that once a Martian child experiences a full Earth gee in an exercise centifuge or whatever, they would never want to deal with Earth gravity on a full time basis...lol.

As for "social conformity," it depends how you look at this situation. You could (and probably should) have a completely secular society, with science and logical living being the end-all, be-all of existence, but you could still potentially have problems with people seeking a "different way," whatever that may be. Funny things tend to happen in extremely isolated communities, so it would be highly beneficial to have a network of settlements scattered around Mars, and encourage the free exchange of people among them to ensure long-term social balance. This will be an especially valuable tool for young adults who want to leave the nest, so to speak. If you're just going to have a single settlement of, let's say, less than 100 people, it's probably best to just have a rota of people on 5 or 10-year intervals to prevent stagnation and mass deviant behavior. (This would probably preclude having children, as they may not be able to return to Earth with their parents...but we won't really know about this until the first child is born in .38 gee...kinda of a conumdrum, huh?)

With the uncertaincy of having and raising children in such a harsh environment, having full-fledged families will represent a huge, long-term risk to the early colonists. But considering the innate human desire to have children, no matter how tough the environment, it will happen sooner or later once people start living on Mars. There will really be only one course of action the colonists will be able to take - tackling the problems as they arise. Let's hope they are able to overcome them without undue difficulty...

B

Hazer · 2003-11-04 14:22:24

I can imagine a Martian child staring at a video screen, at people laughing and running under a blue sky-and being envious. Heck it might be a Pilgrimage-type thing for native Martians to travel to Earth at least once in their lifetime. It might become a traditon even. I think some of them would indeed want to brave 1G conditions to see Earth (Except the deserts).
Photographs are well and good, but sometimes you have to go there.

Dad to Martian son: Why do you want to go to Earth?

Martian son: To see the blue sky!

We might expand through the solar system, but I think Earth will always be frequented simply because it is Earth. Somehow I think Earth-tourism will become a huge industry.

Palomar · 2003-11-05 06:21:58

Heck it might be a Pilgrimage-type thing for native Martians to travel to Earth at least once in their lifetime. It might become a traditon even. I think some of them would indeed want to brave 1G conditions to see Earth (Except the deserts).
...
We might expand through the solar system, but I think Earth will always be frequented simply because it is Earth. Somehow I think Earth-tourism will become a huge industry.

*Quite possibly, at some later date in Marsian colonization.

But I don't expect this will be feasible when the number of colonists is less than 1000 people (if even then), for a variety of reasons (cost, materials and fuel availability, etc). Based on those considerations, I think it's highly likely that at least the 2nd and 3rd generation of Marsian children probably will not have the opportunity to go to Earth if they so desired.

But who knows?

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-11-05 14:45:50

Humans are remarkably adaptable.

Children growing up on Mars will be much like children growing up on a farm out in the middle of no where. Most of them will be happy living with their folks and enjoying the farm-life, while a small number will want to go out and explore.

In the case of your scenario Cindy, I think it's obvious that since they can't go to Earth, there's nothing they can do, and it would be hopeless for them to hark on it. It would, in my mind, just need to be made clear, "Earth isn't available to you right now, maybe when you grow up better technology will exist so that you could."

Presented with this situation, even fewer are less inclined to be too upset with the prospect.

So though I think it might be an issue, I think it would be a very small issue, and I think that it would sort itself out without there being any major problems. Liken it to "coming of age" syndrom.

You grow out of it.

Free Spirit · 2003-11-06 01:51:53

I agree with Josh, I think second or third gen settlers would adapt to their situation since they wouldn't really know anything else. After all, we see rich people in movies, etc, living up the high life but how many of us really relate or come to the conclusion that we can't go on because we saw someone living a "better" life? Honestly, I think Martians might have some social advantages over us Earthlings since they're a lot less likely to be alienated from each other or overtaken with pathological materialism. They'll truly depend on each other to survive, which I think will breed cooperation rather than the cut-throat competition us on Earth have to contend with.

Possible To Conceive And Give Birth To A Child In Space

Ian Flint · 2003-12-01 10:21:36

As an american I am a descendent of European colonists. Sure, I would like to visit Europe sometime, but I don't neeeed to.

I'm sure that's how the martian-born will be.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-12-05 05:48:35

Yup.

Bill White · 2003-12-05 10:07:18

A very legitimate issue we have faced before.

How 'Ya Gonna Keep 'Em Down on the Farm
(After They've Seen Paree)
Reuben, Reuben, I've been thinking
Said his wifey dear
Now that all is peaceful and calm
The boys will soon be back on the farm
Mister Reuben started winking and slowly rubbed his chin
He pulled his chair up close to mother
And he asked her with a grin
Chorus (sung twice after each verse):
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm
After they've seen Paree'
How ya gonna keep 'em away from Broadway
Jazzin around and paintin' the town
How ya gonna keep 'em away from harm, that's a mystery
They'll never want to see a rake or plow
And who the deuce can parleyvous a cow?
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm
After they've seen Paree'
Rueben, Rueben, you're mistaken
Said his wifey dear
Once a farmer, always a jay
And farmers always stick to the hay
Mother Reuben, I'm not fakin
Tho you may think it strange
But wine and women play the mischief
With a boy who's loose with change
Chorus (sung twice after each verse):
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm
After they've seen Paree'
How ya gonna keep 'em away from Broadway
Jazzin around and paintin' the town
How ya gonna keep 'em away from harm, that's a mystery
Imagine Reuben when he meets his Pa
He'll kiss his cheek and holler "OO-LA-LA!
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm
After they've seen Paree'?

Mars will be Mars, yet people will still be people, IMHO.

The separation and physical distance combined with high bandwidth media may well create new and poignant human stories yet will they really be more poignant that the "back story" behind the child's rhyme:

"My bonny lies over the ocean; my bonny lies over the sea?"

Pendragon · 2004-01-16 15:31:34

How did other colonists (i.e. America, Australia, etc.) face this problem?

And Bill, in finishing that ryhme:
"My bonny lies over the ocean, oh bring back my bonny to me"

Do you think it matters who is doing the traveling?

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#1 2003-11-04 10:59:45

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#2 2003-11-04 13:41:06

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#3 2003-11-04 14:22:24

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#4 2003-11-05 06:21:58

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#5 2003-11-05 14:45:50

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#6 2003-11-06 01:51:53

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#7 2003-12-01 10:21:36

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#8 2003-12-05 05:48:35

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#9 2003-12-05 10:07:18

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

#10 2004-01-16 15:31:34

Re: 2nd-Generation Marsians

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