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#376 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-28 12:31:31

LO

The West is not in danger of being destroyed by al Qaeda. Okay, they desire that but they lack the means.

You're much too omptimistic.
Destroy "The West", definitively not, but with little means, there can be tremendous wastes with sarin, anthrax, botulism, pleague, some students in biology can make a lab in a cellar, or even dirty nukes.

My main point is that this is a police and intelligence "war" not like World War II where large armies are useful.

= = =

And http://apnews.myway.com/article/2005072 … .html]this - no "secret powers" for the Executive to overrule the Uniform Code of Military Justice or suspend the Constitution.

#377 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-28 08:21:29

What http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/war-on- … on.html]he said:

As for the jihadis, who do wish us harm, former CIA analyst Marc Sageman estimates the number of radical Muslims who can and would do significant harm to the US in the hundreds.

That's right. The old "war on terror" was a war of the world's sole superpower on a few hundred people. (I exclude Iraq because it is not and never was part of any 'war on terror,' though the incredible incompetence of the Bush administration has contributed to the ability of terrorists to operate there.)

And how to fight terror, how do we fight the "few hundred" people willing bring jihad to the West?


If you try to "profile" the terrorist using such social markers as class or ethnicity, maybe even religious background, you will go badly astray.

What then do they (terrorists) have in common? They got the software installed in their minds. Why? Because they met the installer, and were susceptible to his worldview. That's all they have in common.

So the young man goes to the Finsbury Mosque in the old days and hangs out with Imam. And he points out that the Israelis had fired a huge missile into a residential apartment building to get at a Hamas leader, and had killed 16 civilians, including a little baby. And nobody said "boo" to the Israelis. The US actually gave them more money after that. Tony Blair deplored it, but did nothing practical. Then, the Imam will tell him, the Americans destroyed Fallujah and killed hundreds of innocents. He might even have the photograph that circulated last December, of the dead baby at Fallujah. And nobody can say "boo" to the Americans, and they go on killing Muslims. In fact, the Imam intimates, pulling the young man close, almost whispering, tears in his eyes, the West is destroying Islam. Almost nothing is left of Islam, he will say. It will be completely devastated in our lifetimes. Nobody is lifting a finger to stop it.

So the young man says, what could anyone do? And the Imam says, there is something. But it isn't for ordinary people. It isn't for mere show-offs. And the young man says, sticking out his chest, I'm not showing off! I really want to help, to do something that would make a difference. The Imam says, a person who was really committed could change everything. He could save the Muslim Ummma from destruction. But, no, you are not ready. You don't have the training, the commitment. You are useless. And the young man protests, until he is put in touch with the trainer and given the mission. His new friends all agree on this view of the world. He hangs out with them, at the mosque, at the gym, even socially. They reinforce each other. They tell each other the stories of the harm done to Muslims. They get angry. They swear. They are determined not to be like the rest, who just let it happen. The young man gains in determination. The mission inflates his ego. Maybe he had low self-esteem, maybe not. But he is about to save the world, he is told.

The software is of course a hugely distorted view of the universe. It lets the young man see Israeli atrocities, but not those of Hamas or the Aqsa Brigades. It lets him see American atrocities but not those of Saddam Hussein, Izzedin al-Duri and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The software is fatally one-sided. It also exaggerates. The Muslim world is not in danger of being destroyed, least of all by the United States, a warm friend of most Muslim countries. But the software configures a dire crisis, almost apocalyptic, which can only be averted by an ethical hero who is willing to sacrifice himself. The software hides from the convert that he is to become a monster and kill innocents. It tells him he is a noble soldier, and his victims are wicked enemy soldiers, that there are no innocent civilians.

So how do you fight this form of terror? You disrupt the installation of the software in more and more minds. You adopt policies that make the story the software tells implausible. And you reach out to make sure people hear the implausibility.

= = =

And we run the opposite side if this:

The Muslim world is not in danger of being destroyed, least of all by the United States, a warm friend of most Muslim countries. But the software configures a dire crisis, almost apocalyptic, which can only be averted by an ethical hero who is willing to sacrifice himself.

We are told that only by our trusting a STRONG leader can we be protected.

The West is not in danger of being destroyed by al Qaeda. Okay, they desire that but they lack the means.

However, some people benefit when we believe we are in danger of being destroyed.

#378 Re: Human missions » STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion » 2005-07-28 07:00:45

Use of Soyuz to recover Discovery crew http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.htm … eNum=0]not possible?

MOSCOW, July 28 (Itar-Tass) - The crew of the US’ shuttle Discovery will be unable to use Russia’s escape capsules Soyuz for returning to the earth, the Federal Space Agency’s spokesman Vyacheslav Davidenko said.

* * *

Davidenko said the “matter of possible purchase of Russian spacecraft by the (US space agency) NASA has not been settled so far”.

If true, I wonder if this is news to NASA?

*Don't know.  I'm actually rather confident the crew will return safely and soundly.

Will defer further (grumbling) comments...

--Cindy

Yeah, I agree. But Discovery appears to have been lucky and lucky ain't good enough.

#379 Re: Not So Free Chat » What Are You Doing? » 2005-07-28 06:51:54

So I guess what I am getting at, really, is that life is all about learning to take a joke.

And if God is listening right now, “Eh, You ain’t so great. But You’re pretty good.”  lol

Ironic, no?

#380 Re: Human missions » NASA is screwed up. - I have no patience left :-( » 2005-07-28 06:40:06

If the choice is between not having any manned ship for years and flying the accursed Space Shuttle to finish the wreched useless ISS for no good reason other then to fulfill a half-empty promise and as insurance to keep the congressional money/NASA-PR fallacy while getting to do nothing... versus not flying at all? If it were up to me, Shuttle would never fly again.

Then you must not understand the politics at NASA, the reason people like O'Keefe and Griffin get the job is because the know the game, congress methods, the internal conflcits, the back stabbing, keeping the public happy and so forth.

If the foam keeps falling off, orbiter will not fly again.

Why bother with an orbiter on stand by for a rescue mission = IF = a foam strike means its not safe to launch the rescue mission?

#381 Re: Human missions » STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion » 2005-07-28 06:09:22

Use of Soyuz to recover Discovery crew http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.htm … eNum=0]not possible?

MOSCOW, July 28 (Itar-Tass) - The crew of the US’ shuttle Discovery will be unable to use Russia’s escape capsules Soyuz for returning to the earth, the Federal Space Agency’s spokesman Vyacheslav Davidenko said.

“At present, we have in a high degree of readiness Soyuz-TMA that is to deliver to the International Space Station the 12th resident crew. The launch of the ship is planned for October 1,” he told Itar-Tass on Thursday.

However, “even with availability of free spacecraft, the crew of the shuttle will be unable to use them for returning to the earth even if an emergency arises”, he said.

“So called cradles that mitigate overloads during the re-entry are tailor-made to a figure of each cosmonaut. The very metal chairs in Soyuz are standard, and half-rigid ‘inserts’ are made from a mould of the body of a cosmonaut,” an official at Moscow’s Institute of Biomedical Problems explained.

“For this, an unclothed cosmonaut is embedded in gypsum and then the ‘insert’ and a spacesuit are made from this mould”.

Davidenko said the “matter of possible purchase of Russian spacecraft by the (US space agency) NASA has not been settled so far”.

If true, I wonder if this is news to NASA?

#382 Re: Meta New Mars » WIKI: We now have a useable wiki... » 2005-07-27 23:18:49

I couldn't resist. I started the poetry page to:

http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Poetry

Poetry starts out with a "hummer" - - I will leave it be, its quite funny, actually. Change it if you think best.

First an elegant poem by clark and a somewhat childish poem by me (John Creighton) introducing the Wiki to show a slight bit of hummer.

#384 Re: Not So Free Chat » I'll take malaprops for *5* Bob - Apropos of Nothing continues. . . » 2005-07-27 19:32:48

Honey Mustard!

For the love of god, Honey Mustard!

What a world we must live in that will deny this small luxury.

Honey Mustard!

Its good with pretzels and German beer.

#385 Re: Human missions » STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion » 2005-07-27 18:09:10

From spaceflight.now

2238 GMT (6:38 p.m. EDT)

Is the shuttle program done launching for 2005?

Parsons: "I can't say what the impact of this is." Shuttles can't fly with this large size foam coming off, he added. The problem must be dealt with before the next launch can occur.

Plans had called for Atlantis to launch September 9.

#386 Re: Not So Free Chat » Battlestar Galactica - SO what do you think about the new show? » 2005-07-27 09:11:47

assimilate all of humanity

Not assimilate, exterminate! Must be some seriously pissed off chess computer looking for revenge behind it all.

Extermination, you say. But what about the babies?

WHY do Cylons want human babies (human fathers and Cylon mothers thus far, calling Dr. Freud? calling Dr. Freud?)  Or is that a trick also?

Parents and children appear to be a theme.

How did the last episode end? Tighe saying he was glad he never had children, right?

#387 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-27 08:57:07

Hey Cobra, you better lubricate your turret. I sense many traverses are going to be needed, and soon.   lol

Michael Savage says http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mp … 77239]Bush is too liberal!

"What makes Bush a conservative?" Savage asked when I got him on the phone the other day. "On the economy, Bush has got more governmental workers than anybody before him. He's ballooned the government."

Sean Vanity?

As regards the so-called "war on terror," Savage points out that you can't win a war when you're afraid even to name the enemy.

"He's never mentioned Islamo fascism," said Savage.

No, he hasn't. Even the French have been more willing to defend their borders, language and culture than Bush. He's a multiculturalist and a mushy one at that. Instead of reducing the reach of Islamic fundamentalism, Bush has managed in Iraq to get 1,700 Americans killed in a war that will create yet another Islamic republic. Just Wednesday we learned that the new constitution in Iraq will incorporate sharia, Islamic law.

That's why we right-wing commentators believe the Iraq war has been the biggest blunder in American military history. As for Bimbo and Vanity, if I may employ Savage's labels, they are simply too uneducated to realize that the Iraq war represents a failed liberal exercise in nation-building.

Gosh, what a world. Maybe the Cubs will win the World Series this year.

= = =

PS - - Hillary Clinton wants to expand the army by 80,000 soldiers, so we can "stay the course" in Iraq!

Whoa!

#388 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 20:50:53

I agree with your analysis, clark. My issue is how much do we let the MBAs and CFAs siphon off for "management fees"

#389 Re: Human missions » STS-114 Mission Coverage and Discussion » 2005-07-26 20:48:14

ISS will provide opportunities for a thorough visual inspection of the underside of Discovery.

If there is any damage, it should be spotted.

#390 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 18:23:55

Just dump it all. No health insurance, no pensions, no Social Security, no Medicaid. Just pay people right up front. Costs will come down, government will be less invasive, most people will be better off and more of those who aren't will be so directly because of their own actions, and nothing motivates one to change their behaviors than clearly visible consequences, both good and bad.

At the risk of outing myself here, let me suggest, from a birds eye view, that this is a pretty lousy idea.

In my version, the government would employ doctors to provide a base line of care to those who qualify on a "needs" basis.

But its all fantasy anyway since HealthSouth etc. . . earns too great a profit on the current system.

#391 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 16:05:40

ooh!  ooh!  Two good points! 

Bill's first:

How to bring Islam into the 21st century? Women's rights are the best place to start.

A sound tactic.  Health care workers have repeatedly found that the best place to start educating people about medical topics is to educate the mothers of a community, because that tactic spreads information to the most people per class session (mothers, fathers, and children all at once).

If we decide to focus our efforts on all Islam instead of those who stand against us, educating their women would be the best place to start.

There's just one problem with all that:

Who the hell are we to bring Islam into the 21st century?!

Fair enough. But it wasn't my idea to start the "draining the swamp" operation in Iraq. Especially as they did not attack us on 11 September.

#392 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 14:43:02

hoars? = whores  lol

So what's the correct word for prostitutes ? :oops:

The phonetics (vocal sounds) are correct for "hoars" but the spelling is whores.

#393 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 14:28:47

Now, I've always said that antiterrorist struggle was the intelligence services job. That is using all means, stealth assassinations, corruption, edition of compromising photomontages showing fundy islamic preachers with hoars, this is a mercyless and silent fight to lead on.
Being openly tough is counterproductive, that's just inner propaganda bullshit.

hoars? = whores  lol

= = =

But when do we get photomontage of "Glorious Leader" being cheered by adoring crowds?

THAT is the first priority, no?

#394 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 13:02:58

yikes

Cindy, we agree far more than I imagined.

Cool.   8)

#395 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 12:44:47

My, my. How libertarian!  big_smile

The hospitals, doctors, and insurance companies will NEVER EVER agree to such a plan. Bill Frist would have a heart attack. Cobra, your biggest opponents to this will be the GOP not the Democrats.

On the plane to/from Las Vegas the airline magazine had an article about boutique physicians who refuse insurance payments.

Very interesting and well worth talking about.

I agree!

big_smile

= = =

Edit - - the doctors might well agree.  Just not the MBA types.

= = =

Edit #2 - - the first step must be to make it illegal for a hospital to charge an uninsured patient more than it charges Blue Cross / Blue Shield.

#396 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 12:22:27

An http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/app … pportunity for agreement? I hope!

Three cheers for the author of this column.

Wal-Mart is a company that wraps itself in red, white and blue.

I might understand it if Wal-Mart said I ought to fire Mark because what he said wasn't accurate. But that isn't the case. Mark accurately reported that there are 10,000 children of Wal-Mart employees in a health-care program that is costing Georgia taxpayers nearly $10 million a year.

Shouldn't we talk about that?

When we stop listening to people on the other side of the fence, when we try to silence and even punish people for thinking differently than we do and raising facts and figures we don't like, well, we won't be red, white and blue anymore.

#397 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 12:07:29

Fact is, no action comes without negative consequences.

Exactly!

And two years ago, to raise this exact point was deemed un-patriotic.   wink

= = =

Some of what we do DOES empower the terrorists. To analyze how our actions can minimize terrorist motivation is not appeasement or backing down, it's merely prudence.

A woman does have the RIGHT to walk through a dark alley at 3:00 am and be free from assault. That said, if its my daughter/wife I'd counsel, "Don't do it, because its foolish."

I criticize our policy concerning the Islamic world as foolish and I am attacked for blaming America. And that makes me feisty.  8)

#398 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 10:49:41

BEFORE regime change I raised the Kurd/Turkey problem as a reason to be cautious about removing Saddam. Were you foolish for supporting the decision for regime change when you did not know all the potential consequences?

I don't recall Cindy supporting the decision for regime change in the build-up to the war.

Fair enough. Okay Cindy, I present the question.  Did you support the decision to remove Saddam? Today, do you believe that decision was wise?

My metric is prudence, not some "liberal" guilt thing. Was it WISE to remove Saddam? How about HOW we did it, were our methods WISE?

= = =

PS - -  I again ask Cobra and Cindy, what do we do about Kurd terror in Turkey? Anything?

= = =

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, … 0,00.html] Allawi was supposedly the guy the US backed in the recent Iraqi elections, no?

IRAQ’S former interim prime minister Iyad Allawi has warned that his country is facing civil war and has predicted dire consequences for Europe and America as well as the Middle East if the crisis is not resolved.

The problem is that the Americans have no vision and no clear policy on how to go about in Iraq,” said Allawi, a long-time ally of Washington.

#399 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 10:44:09

Palomar wrote:

al Qaeda is weak, very weak, except for our hysterical reactions.

*al-Qaeda may be weak now.  But what about all those other Islamoterrorist groups/cells?  They seem rather active to me, if news headlines are any indication.

Who? What? Where?

#400 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-07-26 09:38:37

You constantly miss my point. We need to learn from the art of http://www.kodenkanwest.com/philosophy.html]ju-jitsu.

Not playing tough would play into bin Laden's hands: "Oh, they're afraid of me. What cowards. See? The Great Satan is afraid of Allah's Chosen."

Your fear of appearing weak is itself a weakness. al Qaeda is weak, very weak, except for our hysterical reactions.

In ju-jitsu,

it is by the principal of focused suppleness that the weak eventually overcome the strong.

"Standing tough" precludes the flexibility and suppleness required to win. I prefer to WIN rather than indulge my ego with the illusion of being TOUGH.

Frankly, it seems it doesn't matter what we do: We won't conform to their mores, values, religious codes, worldview...therefore we are "infidels" who deserve to be slaughtered.

Now you say it is hopeless, and we truly are powerless to do anything, except maybe kill them all. See, you do fear al Qaeda. Why?

Cindy, maybe one in a million or one in ten million Muslims desire to slaughter infidels.  The Muslim fellow who sells DomPanic fruit doesn't desire anyone to die.

= = =

If we Westerners are powerless it is because we lack SELF CONTROL.

If we Westerners are weak it is because we are TOO LAZY to learn another's language or culture.

For years I have criticzed our policy as being INEFFECTUAL. You have interpreted it as moral criticism.

I criticize our FOOLISHNESS not our being EVIL.

= = =

You say you know nothing about Kurd/Turkey.

BEFORE regime change I raised the Kurd/Turkey problem as a reason to be cautious about removing Saddam. Were you foolish for supporting the decision for regime change when you did not know all the potential consequences?

The Hippocratic oath begins: "First, do no harm"

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