New Mars Forums

That's what I'm talking about too!  And none of these are minor.

And while not nessicary for initial missions, it will prove to be handy to have a base capable of supplying oxygen needs and metals from an off-Earth site.

Take THAT anti-moon-activists! *cough GCN cough*

I honestly hope for Lockheed.  Given the Centaur upper stage and the External Fuel tank this seems literally right up their alley. Boeing makes a good Delta...usually...but Detlas as I recall aren't man-rated.  Prior to Challenger's explosion the Centaur was being considered for a shuttle stage.  Having Lockheed managing both CEV and the upper stage ought to make specifications far easier to enact given they'd being built under the same 'house'.

Major eek reminescent of the asteroid mission Dawn.  At least they mention the other three prospective landing sites turned out to be good.

This may prove to be the last 'traditional' lander on Mars - given the immense success of Sojourner and its successors mobility is in.  I imagine the only thing in the future that'd remain stationary would either be a penetrator (which given Deep Space 2's performance may be unlikely) or the Mars Sample Return.

Hopfully Phoenix will find something interesting within its reach.  God forbid it repeat its predicessor's fate. 

No offense but I am defending a Lunar Outpost.  All you've done in this forum is point out the negative qualities; isn't there anything positive you have to contribute?

Any base on any body in the solar system will be under pressure - the Martian atmosphere exceeds the pressure lows of even Everest by magnitudes.  Mars' atmosphere is still a lousy radiation shield that will ALSO require burying underground.  The only body we could conveivable walk on without pressure is Titan and I doubt you'd enjoy wading in -200 or so Farenheit of methane.  You may as well argue against space exploration altogether if you bring up vaccum.

It isn't an oil derrick it's a mine - get your annalogies right.

Second, you'd be suprised how many mining towns turned into cities even after the gold rush died away.

You seem derogatory of a Lunar Outpost.  We need to establish something and since space stations have proven to be a bust the Moon is the next logical step, and don't even argue there with six months exposure to raw radiation en route to Mars and nuclear propulsion another bust for the time being; AND Martian soil also has yet to be tested for toxicity to human tissue whereas we know the condition of Lunar soil.

Weigh this: NASA didn't chose the Moon over Mars idly, and Bush had nothing to do with it either - he was talked into it and given his intelligence he would have just as easily supported the ISS had not space enthusiasts rushed to him before bureacrats after Columbia.  The Moon is close enough to offer something whether you see it or not.  Mars will still take another full decade to be capable of reaching.

In short, in defense of Luna, squawk in protest enough about Luna and Mars gets smacked down too.  If you use the argument of "Why the Moon?" the same politicians you convince will then turn to your Mars ambitions and blink apathetically saying "Why Mars?"  I count my blessings and I look further along.

Neither do miners live forever underground nor metal workers in a factory. 

The Mall of America seems to be doing alright.  You'd be suprised how acclimated humans can get to secluded spaces...just ask Dilbert in the average overworked office.

I suggest creating a Mars Outpost forum and pointing out its merits there.  It has been talked about enough here.  I'll be happy to make my Martian suggestions there myself but here let's focus on what can be done with the Moon regardless of ambitions toward Mars.

I seem to recall this being favored or at least suggested for Mars landers back in the mid-80s for Bush Senior's blatantly rejected space initiative.  How does this compare to lifting bodies and capsule designs?  Any benefits or cons?

Ok stay on Earth and croak with the rest of the dinosaurs dumb ass.

Given the ISS will hardly last past 2020 a far superior successor could take advantage of Ares IV or V.  With Orion capable of high orbit they could place the station higher to avoid atmospheric drag entirely unlike any prior space station.  I kind of wonder what space station modules designed for an Ares launch would be like - the Russian MIR types were so claustraphobic although I doubt they'd be as spaceous as the Skylab was.

With $400 million yeah its not cheap but better that's a better fare than any STS launch offered.

I honestly hope for all the potential Ares V (and IV) offers.

A major hell yes to all of the above.   

With the Ares V already designated for cargo launches it would practically open the door to all the commercial opportunities slammed shut on the shuttle after the Challenger disaster.  It would certainly outperform all the Titans and pinch, if not kill, buisness for the EEVLs like Detla IV and Altas V.

The Ares IV ought to be able to provide much of what you've suggested, mostly because it could be developed slightly faster than the full Ares V.

If it isn't aerobraking it is a close match.  I think the difference would be if the aforementioned skip puts the spacecraft into LEO from a high-speed transLunar trajectory.  Certainly the same engineering could be applicable to aerobraking at Mars or even Venus or even the outer planets (for a mission to the Galilean satellites, for instance, it would be more mass-conservative to aerobrake at Jupiter ala 2010 Odessey Two).

It would certainly be an interesting hybrid of Ares I and Ares V - as I posted elsewhere I think an Ares IV could prove worthwhile and nearly as useful as Ares V itself.

Thinking further, an Ares IV could be a cheaper alternative to Ares V - we'd finally have the means to launch a substantial spacecraft into LEO just as the Russians have with their Soyuz - no longer limited by the shuttle's payload bay.  A space station possibly (and one more quickly assembled), but I'm thinking more along the lines of a monster Earth-Observation or Space Telescope satellite.  Russia may have the rockets but it's budget has been shot to hell so there'd be all kinds of applications for this hybrid beyond the VSE.