New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#1 2007-01-31 07:54:23

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

I feel like puking OR laughing my head off:

Russia Eyes Longterm Plan To Keep Station Operational Until 2025

You go right ahead and do that -- on the Russian taxpayer's tab.

Moscow (RIA Novosti) Jan 31, 2007
The International Space Station will likely remain operational until 2025, the head of the Russian spacecraft manufacturer Energia said Tuesday, adding that by 2009-2015, Russia will be the only country able to deliver crews to the station.

Fine.  And you want its life prolonged, so go ahead and pay for it yourself.

Now to fully interpret what is REALLY being said:

"No one is going to sink or drop the ISS, as all countries realize that the station is becoming a full-scale industrial facility in space.

Lol!  Sure:  Occasional "watch the worms float in zero-G", etc.  Putting golf balls into space.  Taking billionaire private citizens aboard for space tours

"All countries," huh?  So lots of taxpayers are supposed to continue paying to help keep it afloat while billionaires have their "space tours" aboard it and RUSSIA rakes in all the profit?

On your own dime, friends. 

Although it is scheduled for decommissioning in 2015, its operational life could be prolonged until 2025," Nikolai Sevastyanov said.

Sure.  Because it's YOUR cash-cow now, what with "space tour" seats having been booked through to 2009.  At $25 million a pop you'd be crazy to NOT try and keep that old metal elephant flying.

And we're not crazy (I sure hope) to continue funding your billionaire tourist trap.

If the U.S. goes in for this, we are beyond stupid.  But I can see our gov't leaders pushing back Moon-Mars for the sake of ... whatever (doing rich/influential friends a favor at taxpayers' expense).

The indepth article is at spacedaily.com


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Offline

#2 2007-01-31 09:06:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Its actually worse than you think for we have set our self up for this. Part of this was cause by the most recent shuttle down time and our need to keep the station afloat during that period of time lead to the decision to purchase seats for at least 2 times on a soyuz.

Here is the slated build up of Russian vehicles to ISS.

2007

January 18 - Progress M-59 (24P)
April 9 - Soyuz TMA-10 (14S)
May 12 - Progress M-60 (25P)
September 3 - Progress M-61 (26P)
October 6 - Soyuz TMA-11 (15S)
November 15 - Progress M-62 (27P)

2008

January 29 - Progress M-63 (28P)
April 8 - Soyuz TMA-12 (16S)

"In late 2006, NASA signed a contract with research and production association Energia on the production of two Progress spacecraft, which are to be launched in 2007 and 2008,"

There was also the further meantion that Nasa would be in need of more.

Russia in talks to build 12 spacecraft for NASA, ESA

"Talks to build six Soyuz and six Progress craft in 2009, 2010, and 2011 to launch American and European astronauts into space are ongoing."


ISS to operate until 2025, only Russia to orbit crews by 2015

"No one is going to sink or drop the ISS, as all countries realize that the station is becoming a full-scale industrial facility in space. Although it is scheduled for decommissioning in 2015, its operational life could be prolonged until 2025,"
"If we terminate its existence, it would be hard for mankind to implement such a project anew," he said.

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16890498]NASA plans to extend space station support
Orion to serve as ferry to orbital outpost through 2020, manager says[/url] four years longer than previously planned

In the past, NASA has said the Orion could be used to ferry crews, supplies and equipment between Earth and the space station until 2016. After that time, the Orion would have been reserved for missions leading up to a moon landing by 2020, and NASA would rely on others to provide station resupply services.

This is were the Ares 1 & V get merged for use to LEO in what is either being called Direct or Ares IV which is the upper stage and Orion of the Ares 1 with the first stage being that of the Ares V without the SRB's.

Also see the current budget squeeze going on in the 2007 and 2008 threads for what will happen not only to the Orion developement but to science due to under funding.

Since we save no money rather how many or how few flights of shuttle happen the money will come out of other programs.

Offline

#3 2007-01-31 09:27:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Unfortunately we at present are headed down a very simular road with going to the moon with base construction being partnered as well under the ospus of internation cooperation.

Offline

#4 2007-01-31 15:39:59

RedStreak
Member
From: Illinois
Registered: 2006-05-12
Posts: 541

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

So Russia basically decided to take advantage of our achille's heel?  Opportunisitc but then again it gives their agency attention (and funds eventually) they've been starving for.

The ISS has proven what cooperation can do, at least when coupled with bureacracy.  If our partners want in what should be done is developing a system of compatability, not dependency.  ESA if they chose Russia may soon find themselves as much a lapdog to them as they often claim we treat them.  I'm betting the major reason Russia sucked up to them was for access to French Guiana's spaceport.

Offline

#5 2007-01-31 18:01:53

GCNRevenger
Member
From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Oh I think it might be even worse then that

Is there any time limit to American obligations for cargo and crew escape? And perhaps ground support too?

If not, then Russia may demand we keep paying, and they would legally be correct.


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

Offline

#6 2007-02-01 05:53:36

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Oh I think it might be even worse then that

Is there any time limit to American obligations for cargo and crew escape? And perhaps ground support too?

If not, then Russia may demand we keep paying, and they would legally be correct.

Oh terrific.  Well, there go my taxpayer's dream of funding a manned mission to Mars. 

Guess my tax dollars will continue going to support the ISS so that billionaires can have their little joy ride.


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Offline

#7 2007-02-01 06:04:52

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Guess my tax dollars will continue going to support the ISS so that billionaires can have their little joy ride.

When Denis Tito, the first space tourist, was offered a ride to the ISS by the Russians, NASA objected strongly. The media supported Tito and the Russians had enough say to force NASA to back down. These rides do consume very expensive ISS crew and ground support time, but it's hard to put a cost to it. It's seen as the price of having the critical Russian support for the project.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

Offline

#8 2008-04-11 19:56:40

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 21,299

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Back to there old tricks...Russia needs $5 bln to complete its ISS segment - Energia

Russia will need an additional $5 billion to finish the construction of its segment of the International Space Station (ISS) by 2015, the head of Russia's rocket and space corporation Energia said Friday.

The ISS is a joint project of space agencies from the United States, Russia, Europe, Canada and Japan. The orbital station is likely to remain operational until 2020.

"So far, we have allocated about $4.2 billion for the ISS project, but we will need an additional $5 billion to finish the construction [of the Russian segment] by 2015," Energia President Vitaly Lopota said at a conference dedicated to Cosmonautics Day, celebrated in Russia on April 12.

The first ISS element, the Russian Zarya module, was put into orbit in November 1998. Several modules have been attached to the structure since then, but ongoing construction has missed the initial deadline, largely due to delays in U.S. shuttle launches and a lack of financing.

The Russian segment of the orbital station should have 10 modules by 2015, the Energia official said.

Russia is planning to launch two small research modules to the ISS in 2009-2010, a multi-purpose laboratory module - in 2011, and two energy modules - in 2014-2015.

The ISS crew will comprise six members, including three Russian cosmonauts, starting from 2009, Lopota said.

Offline

#9 2008-04-12 02:05:17

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Old tricks? Energia are not looking to the West for this money. They want more funding from the Russian government. Russia is the world's biggest oil exporter and now has lots of petrodollars.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

Offline

#10 2008-04-12 07:00:10

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,961

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

I've always suspected it's a great big, fat waste of space!


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Offline

#11 2008-04-13 09:50:20

Swoosh
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-01-28
Posts: 33

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

No resupply except Soyuz from 2009-2015? With any luck SpaceX and the Dragon capsule will come to save the day... and hopefully human spaceflight in its entirety.

Offline

#12 2008-04-13 10:52:31

Terraformer
Member
From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,344
Website

Re: Greedy Russians think we're dumb

Oh well, I'll go ahead a say what I was going to to reply to Louis.

Just like Russia!


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB