New Mars Forums

(th) I appreciate that you have a reply, but I feel it needs some correcting: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 25#p236225  Quote:

What you have stated could be an option but is not the limit of the utility of what I posted about.

I the case I have presented involving the Moon, it is amusing that old theories of electricity have some application to explain what might be done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_the … lectricity  Quote:

The evolution of electric understanding caused the development of electron involved processes to perform useful work, as we might define work.

The idea of using the mass of electrons at a relativistic speed, is new, at least to me, and there is a question of where the Voltage and Current are concealed in the power of the device.  E * I = P  It is in there I am sure, I suppose it may be [Velocity of Electrons] * [# of Electrons over a time period] = [A less than 100% efficient Thrust].

It is as if we might squirt water with a garden hose to a spacecraft, and then pressurize the water collected again and squirt it from the ship.

But even with that I am bringing back the Concept of a Fluid with Mass.

The Mass of Electrons was never something that I needed to consider in the level of work I did in the Electric and Electronic work I have done.  Now I am quite interested.

We can collect Mass (If you consider Electrons to be Mass), from the Moon, and Squirt it to a Satellite, and then Squirt it yet again.

We might do that with Rockets, but it is complex and very low in efficiency.

We cannot do that the same way with Lasers as Photons have no Mass and do not flow though electrical conductors.

But that Mass of electrons is only useful for thrust, we cannot build things from it.

But if we can eject either (+) Ions or Neutral Atoms (Having their electrons), we may try to accumulate them to a Satellite, and then try to justify them to a circular orbit using their own inertia and the inertia we can generate by intercepting an electron stream and then ejecting the electrons yet again from the Satellite.

The (+) Ions or Neutral Atoms are to be ejected as another type of fluid perhaps in pulses from a Neumann Drive or Magdrive.

Definition of a Fluid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid

Gasses and Liquids are fluids.  I think Plasma is a fluid.  As I look at it a flow of electrons can be considered to be a fluid or at lease similar to a fluid.  You can fluidize soil or sand.  An earthquake can do that.  A flow of a granular substance can be "Fluidized".

So the output of the Neumann Drive or Magdrive might be fluid like in nature where it may start as a plasma, but I am not sure, I kind of expect it to cool into atoms and molecules.  These are all potentially fluid in nature.

But I am not ready to state that the concept of possibilities is set in concrete yet.  Rather some interesting investigations of true results may justify investment of time and effort.

Just for visualization let's suppose a satellite of the Moon has a LC frequency of 1 minute.  That is rather long but maybe calms the mind to think calmly.  From the just previous post:

L = Superconducting Coil.  It holds power temporarily as a magnetic field.  The Current drops to zero when the magnetic field has expanded all the way.

C = Capacitor Bank.  It holds power temporarily as a Capacitive field, using a static voltage. at the point of maximum filling of the capacitor of with electrons and holes.

So this is a tank circuit, and it is to flip flop between these two states.

It should be possible to squirt an electron beam to hit the Satellite itself, but I would rather have it penetrate the Magnetic field while it is inflated.  My hope is that the field can become saturated with electrons. (But I am not sure this can work).

The big hope then is to collect the electrons as the magnetic field collapses, and to pass them into an electron gun and then pass the produce beam into a particle accelerator, to provide additional propulsion.  My hope is that the beam of electrons can penetrate through the magnetic field by virtue of a very fast speed and that the magnetic field is collapsing.

It would be helpful if a time delay could be produced by some device, where the electrons could be collected and stored for some short period until the magnetic field is sufficiently collapsed, and then to accelerate them to an ejection using a particle accelerator.

A Leyden Jar has some of the characteristics I want: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar
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I think it is a form of a capacitor actually.

But in this case, I am hoping that the electrons that flow in the LC circuit will be distinct from the ones I hope to catch in the external magnetic field.  But as the magnetic field collapses, I hope to convey by hook or by crook the electrons to a temporary storage "Jar" composed of yet another capacitor bank.

I believe that electrons and Ions can be captured into a magnetic field, so I have hopes that this would work.  But if the magnetic field does not work then the electrons could be caused to impact the metal of the Satellite itself as an alternative.

There seems to be some hope:
https://www.spaceweather.gov/sites/defa … -FINAL.pdf
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The question of when the (+) ions or neutral atoms could be sent to the Satellite.  The (+) might be captured in the magnetic field, neutral atoms might vacuum weld to the Satellite (Fuse), particularly if the Satellite has a strong (-) charge at the time.

So we are attempting to propel with electrons as fluids and capture also atomic matter sent from the Moon.

The two processes do not have to happen at the same time.  Perhaps the LC circuit pulses twice, and you send Electrons one time and Atoms another time in alternation.

I need to get some sleep.

Ending Pending

I have been very pleased to see it said that a CRT is a form of Electron Particle Accelerator.  My phone said so, but of course as always my computer is not the same.

Cathode Ray Tube: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube
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The original televisions would use the CRT method shown above.

An Electron Particle Accelerator that can send electrons at relativistic speeds, would need much more in the way of electric and magnetic methods to accelerate the electrons, I expect.

I am hoping the technology could be used to help propel spacecraft that travel interplanetary as well as the existing intention to make them travel interstellar.

I am thinking that a spacecraft surrounded by a magnetic field might receive the electrons.  So, you might not be striking solid materials but magnetic lines of force.

Ending Pending

(th) per your request: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 80#p236180

I will make some attempts.

Keep in mind that Copilot is likely more of a mimic, (Which is clever at arrangements of information), than it is a composer at this point.

A composer and a mimic may both play piano.  They are both important to the expansion of abilities.

But I have caught Copilot spouting dogma.it is a garbage in garbage out danger, which might compromise the ability to compose.  Never-The-Less it is becoming a valuable resource.

Electrons may tend to be about as common as the Nucleus of atoms, as far as I know.  For the whole universe, I don't know.

A bit like planets Electrons can be bound to a central mass of a star or collection of stars or "Rogue", as to be bound to a Galaxy or other possible attractor.

Similarly, it has to do with energy.  More energy allows an electron to go more Rogue, I believe.  But it's electron (-) charge, always wants to dance in some way with a atom nucleus (+) charge.

In some ways it is a pity that the transistor showed up.  Vacuum Tube (Valve), technology was more similar to what we might do in space than transistors are.

I am old enough that I was minimally trained to repair old type televisions.  Those had an electron beam which would be manipulated by magnetic fields from it's point of emission and would impact the phosphor on the screen of the TV.

These electrons would not have been as energetic as to be capable of accelerating a spacecraft (Much), and soon neutralized by hitting the phosphor.

Some matter allows electrons to more easily be borrowed, depending on the element.

A natural situation where electrons are borrowed from space plasma seems to occur with the Martian moon Phobos.

If I understand this properly the heavy [+) ions having more mass have a harder time getting to the leeward side of the moon Phobos but the Electrons (-) with lower mass can fill a sort of "Electron Cloud" on the leeward side of Phobos.

So the energy of the motion of the solar wind blocked by the moon Phobos causes a separation of (+) and (-) ions.  They will then mix and sort of combine somewhere downstream.

The need for a particle accelerator to generate "Super Rogue Relativistic Electrons", is a daunting notion to me.  But apparently someone thinks they could do it.

I have put my professional credentials at risk!  (I have none), to suggest what I am going to suggest but here goes.

Coffee and a pause to make a diagram.....................

OK let's try this and hope we will discover that it might work, or discovery why it won't work, as to know what does not work may indicate what else might work.

I suppose I am thinking of the Moon as a reservoir of Ions of opposite charges.  I am supposing that I can attempt to start with the electron beam I understand, which requires that the Cathode be heated and a strong (-) charge be applied to it.  As the "Platform" gets overcharged (-) however, I am thinking we have another electron beam emitted from the platform which will bend to touch the Moon after a time of passage around it.

The platform being of a (-) charge, I am hoping that the neutral or (+) charged ions from the Neumann Drive or Magdrive will be drawn towards the platform.  I am hoping that their energy level will be sufficient to cause the atoms to vacuum weld to the platform.  The danger might be that the energy level would cause them to erode the platform.

The Electron Beam I have suggested may be insufficient for the task so perhaps indeed particle accelerators would be needed.

This might not be too distant from electroplating, which is done on Earth, if it can be made to work.

If the bottom of the platform had attached plates to accumulate plated materials onto, then those might be removed and replace periodically  so that the accumulated mass may be further processed into a resource.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_deposition
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So, perhaps some future thinking would render something like this possible.

If so, then it will be a sort of Mass Driver or as I like to say Mass Projector.

I want to mention again that I think it is likely that the point where the return electron beam would impact the Moon could attract (+) and neutral Ions, atoms to itself.  This could include Hydroxyl (+) and water molecules.

But it would be tricky to incorporate that feature into the main process of projecting mass off of the Moon.

Ending Pending

I am willing to entertain this: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … d57acfd544  Quote:

I think that if the concentration of favorable genes though gene flow was a possible way to formulate part-populations that were efficient and capable of adaptation to a situation or set of situations, then the core of the collection of Africa and Eurasia, and India might be where this could be expected to occur more often.

You cannot have capability unless you are sufficiently efficient to still exist as a replicating pattern.  Capability though can give good rewards to provide efficiency.

Rigor stimulates adaptation, but reward gives a desirable boost.

I have wondered about the ice age world, and if there could have been a more intelligent sea fairing group or groups of people in that time.
A flash of collective genius which faded for some reason.

Oxygen levels have been a matter of interest.  Mountain peoples are impressive if they have adapted to low Oxygen levels.  However, until now they could not modify that rigor with invention, they could only adapt to it physically it seems.  The rigor has produced abilities that are to be respected.  However, the reward was perhaps not that massive.

During the Ice Age the Coasts were as much as 400 feet lower than they are now.  This then would have resulted in Oxygen displacement.

A person living on a coast then would have more Oxygen than a person that lives at an ocean coast now.

It might be a tiny difference but also it did probably matter.  The extra Oxygen in an ice age coast, would have been at the expense of the Oxygen displaced by the continental ice Caps.

It may be that this does not matter, but every breath a human take involves the movement of muscles and blood systems.  A body can endure the rigor of existing, but the balance between rigor and reward, may affect capability.

Perhaps you can think just a little better with just a pinch more of Oxygen.  The rigor of the seacoasts runs parallel to the mastery of it with technology.  Obviously, you might start with a raft then to a canoe, and then maybe Polynesian, Viking, or Innuit level technology.

The coasts would generally have lots of food, and also if you had to fear "Savages" you might want watercraft to move to an island refuge.

At this time we only have some below sea level areas, on the planet, and much of that is desert in nature, so not too rewarding.

But the Mediterranean Sea dried up due to geology at times so perhaps in those days, that could have been a good place to have a congregation of useful genes, and maybe a burst of genius.  An extra pinch of Oxygen may have been available.

When the ice caps melted, people adapted for that extra pinch of Oxygen might have struggled against inland peoples who were used to a lower Oxygen level.

Ending Pending

Other members now absent have suggested mushrooms in the past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GMXeJBzVg4
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Now add this:

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 22#p236122
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Now add this:

https://www.marscompany.com/data-centers

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Then consider other factors:

-Phobos and Demos to make power satellites out of, for beaming power down to the surface of Mars.

-Consider various large ice masses.  The easy ones are at low latitudes, but the more valuable ones may be near or at the poles.

Mars is almost perfect, with the exception of dust storms.

Starting with Korolev Crater: and then graduating to the North and South ice caps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korolev_(Martian_crater)
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If you have energy from Oribt and from the surface, you could use a laser beam to carve vaults and tunnels in the ice.

You could directly melt or evaporate the ice.  There would be more efficient ways to do that however.  You could route the water out of the ice body to a reservoir(s) perhaps around the edge of the ice body.

You then will have very large radiators.

Pressurized space in the ice modified with materials including those from mycelium, and heat pumps could make the spaces habitable for humans, robots, and Data Centers.

I think we might eventually find a way to modify the worst dust storms.

But perhaps at times the setup on Mars will hibernate until then.

So, why not make use of the cold and the expected waste heat to make Mars more valuable to the human race?

Even if Fission/Fusion becomes possible and competitive, we still have the cold of Mars as a resource.

Ending Pending

This could apply here: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technol … r-AA1S9tWc

This part excites me especially:

This Apple Tree especially.  If you think about it, the solar panels will warm the air where the tree leaves are but cool the ground where the tree's roots are.

And the trees will shed their leaves for the winter which will be good for winter solar energy.

So, a bit more sunlight and infrared from the panels to warm the leaves, possibly extending the farming to somewhat higher latitudes, but the retention of soil moisture, perhaps extending the farming to somewhat water deficient places.

The emergence of robots could groom these lands, and they may be good places for people to raise children.

Ending Pending

I do like the work of Peter Zeihan, but he is not perfect or (A god, nor should he need to be).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG6j0eu … M&index=14
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But good for him, he does get a lot pretty close to right at times.

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I need to give a chance to people to understand that the change in attitude of America about the world is not a chosen option.  It is like the tide coming in or going out.  You might have be used to it being one way and now it is going to go back to the other way.

You will be silly to try to stop the tide.

There are four domains of similar properties.

1) Europe (This does not only include the post Roman lands.  It includes places like Hungary and Russia).
2) India (India is largely balanced unlike Europe).
3) North America (North America is in the process of re-acquiring its Eurasian half).
4) South America (This place has many Native American genomes even in the cone it is evolving).

These things are natural, I believe.  Not only are their patterns, but they oscillate.

You cannot fight against such an oscillation as you might against a nation or set of nations.

It is extremely rude for Roman Europe to demand that the USA be only Roman in nature.

America is only claiming back what belongs to it.

Do not be so stupid as to think you Roman Europeans know how to play this game better than we do.  We have the plan for survival, joy , and prosperity you have a plan for disaster.  We have tried to work with you and you have been increasing levels of wrong.

Even if you could eliminate the MAGA, it would continue to rise.  It is a natural tide.  You must ride it does not stand in its way.

Why does this structure exist?  Well, I am not sure, but I see it.

Don't be stupid.

We don't all want to die in flames with your stupid desire to fight the tide.

I think that the problem with the British is this.

The strip of land from England to Sweden was to some small degree one thing.  But the Arfican/Asian polarity English/Swedish was too reactive.  It could not be held together for more than a small amount of time.

The English in finally by force and bribe thinking that Scotland was an easy take-down, think that the entire Eurasian community must also bow to them.

But if you look on a global map you will see that the English did better around Africa than China.

America has with great trouble bridged this gulf we function on both sides where Britian is asymmetrical towards Africa.

We do not want to be dragged into your outdated stupid way of managing in the world.

We most likely can manage much better than that.

So, I would ask you to get rid of your colonial intentions towards the USA, as we don't want it.

Ending Pending

As a supplement, to the previous two posts, Lake Bakal in Russia may provide species suitable for a freshwater ecology in a "10 Foot Sea" on Mars.

Occasionally a part of the salt water ocean gets slowly converted to fresh water.  This seems to be the case for Lake Bakal.

So, it has some ocean similar life that is now adapted to fresh water.  And it is a cold lake.

https://baikalfoundation.ru/en/our-work … ke-baikal/

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Ending Pending

To append to the just previous post.

The heat in the "10 Foot Sea's" may increase too much.  If you are dealing with fresh water then the water at the floor of the sea could be at as much as 39 degrees F, before turnover would happen.  The water just under the ice would be 32 degrees F.

(3.88888889  to 0 C)

So we do not want to melt too much more of the ice above if we think that 10 feet is ideal.

So, if you have a nuclear reactor, you could use its electricity to run heat pumps to pull heat out of the bottom water.  That could be used to heat things like habitats and Industrial Processes.

While you could melt the "10 Foot Sea's" with nuclear reactor water, the "10 Foot Sea's" will really be solar thermal heat storage.

First you generated chemicals that organisms could consume.  Then the organisms gave off waste heat.  The span of (3.88888889  to 0 C)
represents a mass storage of heat that a Heat Pump system could extract.

If you have saltwater things can get to be different.  In fact it is possible to store much higher heats with salt gradients, but on the whole ice water may be very useful.

Ending Pending

A video that talks about AI data centers in space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bne1Z_8j3uU
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The progression seems to be:
1) SpaceX or other capable.
2) Starlink
3) Sun-Synchronous Data Centers in space.
4) Moon
5) Mass Driver.

Sounds pretty good, I am rather comfortable with #1-#4.

#5 might be a teething problem.

Anthrofuturism has some videos about mass drivers: https://www.youtube.com/@Anthrofuturism
Here is one of their videos, I feel I should review some more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxXbgalpheQ

It is actually quite beyond my paygrade.  I am just not that mentally capable.  Not so far at least.  So, fine, if they figure out how to make a Mass Driver for the Moon, I will be delighted.

As a backup plan, I would like to speculate on an alternative that maybe would work.

1) SpaceX or other capable.
2) Starlink
3) Sun-Synchronous Data Centers in space.
4) Moon
5) Matter and Energy Projectors.
6) Retrieval of Deimos/Phobos/Asteroid mass to CIS Lunar Space.

For Matter Projectors, I would include:
a) Mass Drivers, if possible.
b) Electron Beam (Electrons have mass).
c) Lunar Lasers could project Photons which have inertia, I believe.
I wish....
d) Neumann Drive (As a matter projector).
e) Magdrive (As a matter projector).

I have already hoped that it might be possible to beam atoms of a conductive material from the surface of the Moon to impact on a orbital target device.

I do worry that the beam may spread too much.

The hope is that something like Iron atoms might vacuum welt to the target rather than to erode it.  Silicon would be another material of interest, as well as Aluminum.

A question would be, can you use electron beams to manipulate this process?

https://www.space.com/space-exploration … ravel-tech

Perhaps the beams could push or contain the atom projections.  Or perhaps if the target was charged to a very high (-) charge, it might attract the atoms.

I don't know these things.

If electrons could push a spacecraft to interstellar missions, perhaps then perhaps electron beams could push the targets to help maintain the orbits of them.

The atoms projected might also push the orbit of the targets that they would hit and we hop would weld to.

It this would work, then you would have matter to help make data centers with, and would also have matter in orbit that you could use to drive a spaceship to asteroids, using Magdrive or Neumann Drive.

At the asteroids with small gravity wells you might gain more Iron Silicon, Aluminum for propellants.  But I would hope things like Hydrogen and Carbon that might be brought back to CIS Lunar Space.  These may also be available from Demos and Phobos.

This would help integrate those moons into an early solar system economic structure.

Ending Pending

Perhaps however Carbon and Hydrogen might be available to CIS Lunar space instead.

Ending Pending