New Mars Forums

I like the author(s) of that.

I want to say that I am encouraged that SpaceX is thinking of a mass driver that could launch Satellites, and want them to do what they can in that direction.

But one size may not fit all.

I want to offer the idea of the HLS Power Belt.  If HLS is out superhero of a cartoon, if we can strap auxiliary thrusters that use Lunar resources on it, then we may make a Lunar Starship as a viable method t lift mass from the Moon.

We have three options that I can think of Hydro-Lox, Alice, and Aluminum/LOX paste.

While SpaceX is avoiding legs for Starship to get to the Moon, I propose that legs made of Carbon and Plastics that are one time use might be engaged as well.

I see the idea of using electric Ion propulsion to bring them to Lunar Orbit as being sensible.

Have a look at Andromeda's engine: https://www.stokespace.com/introducing-andromeda/
Image Quote:

This has a Hydro-Lox engine which could perhaps become a "Thruster Belt" that you could wrap around a HLS.

The point is that this could be strapped around an HLS and could be propelled by H2 and LOX from the Moon, if such does exist.

Once you strap a power belt on the HLS, you leave it on, most likely.  So, this then allows HLS to become partially Hydro-Lox, without massive alterations.

This assembly then repeatedly takes cargo up to Lunar Orbits and receives a new dominantly Carbon and Plastic set of landing gear.
Each time it leaves the landing gear on the Lunar surface.

The Carbon and Plastics of the landing gear, plus perhaps some special metals included then support industrial intents on the Moon.

Then perhaps if you want to you can create an "Alice Thruster Belt": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALICE_%28propellant%29
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When this thruster belt is to be refilled from the Lunar surface, it will burn itself out and most likely you do not want to detach it from the Lunar Starship.  This is because the Lunar Starship is then used to land both itself and the attached "Alice Power Belt" back down to the Moon.

Finally we might be able some day to create a LOX/Aluminum paste engine. for a "Power Belt".
Some research has been done on it: https://space.stackexchange.com/questio … ant-source

And: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19940017287

While some of their research suggests squeezing a past out of a nozzle, I would be more interested in setting up something like a "Solid Rocket" method.  So, then the "Power Belt" would be a burn up to orbit but no ability to land itself.  But the Starship could carry it back down.

Adding a power belt to a Starship would broaden its base.  Adding a one-time set of landing legs could broaden it more.

Shipments of propellants from Earth to Lunar Orbits might also be included using an electric Ion propulsion method.  However, I anticipate that if this would be done it would be Methane only, and the refilling of Oxygen could be done on the Moons surface.

I will make the case that a Mass Driver is a mass projector that involves machinery and energy.

But a Starship with the "Power Belt" kit and the "Landing Legs" kit is also a matter projector that involve machinery and energy.

Perhaps both options may have value.

It is not yet certain that a Mass Driver is practical, I might point out.

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I found the article you provided as very interesting/important Calliban.

It seems that P. Zeihan has some things to say that are at least partially true in a big way.  I think that the China story can be modified by the interests of surrounding players, and what they see as worthwhile.  I think that for the USA it may be partially worthwhile to prop up China to some extent, at last for a while.  This can also be true for other pacific rim east Asian countries.

For example if East Asian labor is to falter per human workers, then if they convert partially to robots, to some degree those robot might make things that countries like the USA would want to buy.  It is not only that American artificial labor might be of value but that of other countries also may be useful to maintaining out economy.  So, the future might create strange bedfellows, I am guessing.

Here is some additional fun: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … d9909fe1ba  Quote:

And of course assets that Venezuela siezed under socialist/nationalist justifications, hints at another sort of international money games.

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Here is a related article: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ajaxhist=0  Quote:

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So, I will break my own rules, as sometimes is necessary.  To speak is to be subject to potential predation.

But I like to examine, diagnose, and solve.  This topic of the last post is the equivalent to me of figuring out how to do similar in outer space for a non-human situation.  I am not as obsessed with this one as you might think.  But this "File" in my mind is open so I choose to try to update it.

If it is true that hive minds are often dominated by certain types of females', and a narrow sliver of the male population, then such a hive mind relies on communication at the speed of conversation or it's equivalent.

For the human race to be competent to survive in its environment, it needs efficiency, and it needs capability.  A hive mind can be more efficient and might also have sufficient capabilities.

In terms of the stone age, if you have 10 people with small bodies and extra fat on those bodies, they can survive better than 10 people with lots of muscle and body weight but low-fat levels.  That is likely true, when the food supply runs low. 

The exception to that is if the 10 stronger people take what food there is.  But if that is done, then reproduction is inhibited because you likely killed off many of the female population.

The verbal collective of a hive mind is pitted against the partial autonomy of a collection of men and perhaps tomboys.  That is if you excessively bulk up the brain, you can produce autonomous minds, but that comes at the cost of calories.  Similarly, a bulking of muscle comes at a cost of calories.  The point is, if you can have a collection of autonomous big brained and big muscled people, that can be afforded if the environment they are in offers rewards for those attributes.  But if you are in a calorie restricted situation then you have to go to a lower powered hive mind.

Having the two genders (More or less), allows humans to access either of these options when it becomes necessary.  Compared to most mammals, the human genders are most differentiated of all that I can think of. (I have also read that that is true).

I have read that all computers are female.  Well, I really don't know, here is a response:

I suspect that as robots are created, the result will be more masculine, as to be animated in the material world.  Males typically are more animated, as they have more muscle on average.  I don't know that that is true, but we may find out.

So, what the computer has done for men is to give them a chance to be more communicative.  And the produced network is a hive mind of sorts.  And that may work faster than a purely verbal hive mind.  Verbal hive minds might be slowed down by interpersonal contests.  A computer being a high-speed idiot, (So far), even so a male which is often isolated from the core of verbal hive minds, gains a power he was unlikely to have by using computers.

We will see how gains what when humanoid robots emerge.

What I have at some point read is that in WWII, the Germans ordered that American officers should not be killed but rather be allowed to mislead the troops.  It has been said that when the Germans would aim to kill the higher officers, then the Americans could start to improvise.  So, if there are lower ranked troops with sufficient intellectual autonomy, the danger was that when the hierarch of the hive mind was killed, the Americans would then improvise something that the Germans would not be familiar with.  I have read that some American men have an extra part of the brain that allows that.  But they would not be selected to be the officers often as they do not easily comply with strict orders.

It is my notion that the American experience would have promoted the breeding of such men as opportunity and challenge existed here.  In Europe, I expect that such men would be culled out for being disobedient.

More Coffee...............

I ran into an interesting video this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V21dm9Fuwk
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I am going to pause to listen to it again....................

I am very pleased that she seeks to understand and that she does have quite a lot of understanding.

Men's sexuality is their own.  But the government has been bent to play pimp for those who want to turn it into a sex industry.  I suppose that private enterprise often has value but, where it facilitates Royal thinking, and the damaging of the society, it has gone too far.

The women who she mentions only understand reality from their own shallow self-serving desires, which are actually perverted.

Unfortunately, things that are desired are manipulated by the succubus, by soliciting a pimping function from an incubus.  It is much like the drug trade.

First you find out what is desirable.
Then you introduce it.
Then you withhold it.
Then you charge for it.
And you want to cripple the individual so as to be better able to exploit them.

We are in this stage where the product offered is not satisfactory, but the product desired is to be withheld.

The purpose is to produce an unsatisfied addiction.  Male happiness would be the very last thing they would desire.

I have seen conversation that points to London for the drug trade.  Opium Wars, American drug problems expanding in the 60's.
Royal thinking is that it is just fine for cause decay, and to feed off of it.  Damage the lesser people and they will be easier to exploit.

You will find, i believe that the purpose of the current campaign against male sexuality, is to link male sexual satisfaction to the extraction of money and power.

I understand that when the government decided to figure out how to regulate this on the internet, they solicited advice from Priests, Feminists, and Pornographers.

Ha Ha, a Priest is the function of a pimp as to say who and how sex may occur.  The Feminist has a desire to be satisfied endlessly, and a pornographer is a part of this.

So, instead of natural and voluntary depictions on the internet, those were smothered, and deviant and unhealthy things to be promoted for the extraction of money and power.

At any rate I need to move on to more useful things today.  So, my summary is "Hands Off!".  It is not yours and should not be yours.  Get a job and do some useful work!

Stop assisting an unhealthy association of law enforcement with control of male sexuality to extract money and wealth.

I am as an old man who has little true interest in such things anymore.  This was a postmortem of sorts.

I am very uninterested for the most part, but I hate irrational bumbling around while the ship is on fire.

And I am happier for it being able to dissociate myself again from the problem.

Ending Pending

I am putting this here for future review by me: https://www.bing.com/search?q=Wokeness+ … pc=EDGEXST

Articles by Professor Edward Dutton.  One example is: "Wokeness and Intelligence with Edward Dutton
YouTube
Amazing Academics
34.3K views
"

I am not advocating or criticizing what he has said.  I don't know that to think yet, but the samples I have of his speaking suggest that I will want to understand what he is claiming.

I was busy with plumbing and could not focus on the video I watched.

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I found this to be worth a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdMQtfoBec
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I think that someday it might be considered worthwhile to piece together Neanderthal, and or Denisovan genes into a genome, perhaps creating a 50% or more "Archaic" person.

I think that the idea that we are "Homo Sapiens" and out of Africa, with some genetic pollution from Neanderthals and Denisovans is very wrong.  The wrong way to think of things.

It may be that the 30% of the Neanderthal genome that is said to be in the Indian genetics and the 20% in Europeans may not be the same.

Some people think that we will never meet Aliens, but we might create Aliens that are very close to our nature. 

A more dangerous method would be to pull old genes out of the ground.  I suppose that is full of chances of bad consequences.  But I don't think that the testing reality gave in history caused everything that may have potential of utility to be retained.

Of course this would be to have sex with the dead.  No, not contaxuality, but genetic mixing.

But this may be cursed.  The Bible speaks of an entity that brings something that was dead to life.  That entity is associated with condemnation.

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So, if you might think you are in a simulation, perhaps you don't want to be the one who causes a thing from past existence to annoy "God".

It is worth caring about I think.  We don't want to do the wrong things.

But would it necessarily be a bad thing to work with Neanderthal or Denisovan genes to be able to speak with a form of human which might have a somewhat different brain, and so perhaps a different mind.

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I will show you something perhaps you have not seen.

Go to a map of the "Old World".  Put your finger on the Caspian Sea.  Imagine that you are looking at a puzzle.  Now pick up all of the Indian Subcontinent including Iran and Pakistan and India of course.  Now fold i on top of Europe, as is the Caspian Sea was a hinge.

Now put it back and fold Europe which also includes Russia and Siberia, on top of India.

I feel that to some degree, Europe and India are mirror images.  If you are hooked on skin tones, get rid of that.  If the Europeans were farming under the hot sun of the equator their skin tones would be darker.

They are both between Sub-Saharan Africa and China.

The genomes considered to be Caucasian tend to be between those poles.

And now North America and South America are mirror replicas.

So, if you are going to be hateful racists, even telling some people that they are living on stolen land, just shut up!  Reality has a structure, that wants to exist.  The idea that some evil "White People/Men" did not make this pattern repeat.  It is baked into a structure which is way above your pay grade.

Some people think that causing people to murder each other can lead to an improved species by killing off the weaklings.

Among those who have screwed up our world with these philosophies are the NAZI, and the Communists/Socialists.

All this trouble.  A stupid waste of time.  And not superior race created from it, in my opinion.  Just diminished capabilities.

I am neither interested in causing racial mixing or from preventing it.

It is not a task worth expending effort for.

So, there are domains, and the idiots who have tried to criminalize the America's for its mixing, should be ignored.  They are just troublemakers with evil intentions.

I like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8dX5tEg2Wo
Quote:

Ending Pending

I have not completely revied this but want to later: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … d50f40545c  Quote:

I don't know how much I believe what is said but am interested.  If anyone wants to present opposing views, I have no problem with that.

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(th) I appreciate that you have a reply, but I feel it needs some correcting: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 25#p236225  Quote:

What you have stated could be an option but is not the limit of the utility of what I posted about.

I the case I have presented involving the Moon, it is amusing that old theories of electricity have some application to explain what might be done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_the … lectricity  Quote:

The evolution of electric understanding caused the development of electron involved processes to perform useful work, as we might define work.

The idea of using the mass of electrons at a relativistic speed, is new, at least to me, and there is a question of where the Voltage and Current are concealed in the power of the device.  E * I = P  It is in there I am sure, I suppose it may be [Velocity of Electrons] * [# of Electrons over a time period] = [A less than 100% efficient Thrust].

It is as if we might squirt water with a garden hose to a spacecraft, and then pressurize the water collected again and squirt it from the ship.

But even with that I am bringing back the Concept of a Fluid with Mass.

The Mass of Electrons was never something that I needed to consider in the level of work I did in the Electric and Electronic work I have done.  Now I am quite interested.

We can collect Mass (If you consider Electrons to be Mass), from the Moon, and Squirt it to a Satellite, and then Squirt it yet again.

We might do that with Rockets, but it is complex and very low in efficiency.

We cannot do that the same way with Lasers as Photons have no Mass and do not flow though electrical conductors.

But that Mass of electrons is only useful for thrust, we cannot build things from it.

But if we can eject either (+) Ions or Neutral Atoms (Having their electrons), we may try to accumulate them to a Satellite, and then try to justify them to a circular orbit using their own inertia and the inertia we can generate by intercepting an electron stream and then ejecting the electrons yet again from the Satellite.

The (+) Ions or Neutral Atoms are to be ejected as another type of fluid perhaps in pulses from a Neumann Drive or Magdrive.

Definition of a Fluid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid

Gasses and Liquids are fluids.  I think Plasma is a fluid.  As I look at it a flow of electrons can be considered to be a fluid or at lease similar to a fluid.  You can fluidize soil or sand.  An earthquake can do that.  A flow of a granular substance can be "Fluidized".

So the output of the Neumann Drive or Magdrive might be fluid like in nature where it may start as a plasma, but I am not sure, I kind of expect it to cool into atoms and molecules.  These are all potentially fluid in nature.

But I am not ready to state that the concept of possibilities is set in concrete yet.  Rather some interesting investigations of true results may justify investment of time and effort.

Just for visualization let's suppose a satellite of the Moon has a LC frequency of 1 minute.  That is rather long but maybe calms the mind to think calmly.  From the just previous post:

L = Superconducting Coil.  It holds power temporarily as a magnetic field.  The Current drops to zero when the magnetic field has expanded all the way.

C = Capacitor Bank.  It holds power temporarily as a Capacitive field, using a static voltage. at the point of maximum filling of the capacitor of with electrons and holes.

So this is a tank circuit, and it is to flip flop between these two states.

It should be possible to squirt an electron beam to hit the Satellite itself, but I would rather have it penetrate the Magnetic field while it is inflated.  My hope is that the field can become saturated with electrons. (But I am not sure this can work).

The big hope then is to collect the electrons as the magnetic field collapses, and to pass them into an electron gun and then pass the produce beam into a particle accelerator, to provide additional propulsion.  My hope is that the beam of electrons can penetrate through the magnetic field by virtue of a very fast speed and that the magnetic field is collapsing.

It would be helpful if a time delay could be produced by some device, where the electrons could be collected and stored for some short period until the magnetic field is sufficiently collapsed, and then to accelerate them to an ejection using a particle accelerator.

A Leyden Jar has some of the characteristics I want: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar
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I think it is a form of a capacitor actually.

But in this case, I am hoping that the electrons that flow in the LC circuit will be distinct from the ones I hope to catch in the external magnetic field.  But as the magnetic field collapses, I hope to convey by hook or by crook the electrons to a temporary storage "Jar" composed of yet another capacitor bank.

I believe that electrons and Ions can be captured into a magnetic field, so I have hopes that this would work.  But if the magnetic field does not work then the electrons could be caused to impact the metal of the Satellite itself as an alternative.

There seems to be some hope:
https://www.spaceweather.gov/sites/defa … -FINAL.pdf
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The question of when the (+) ions or neutral atoms could be sent to the Satellite.  The (+) might be captured in the magnetic field, neutral atoms might vacuum weld to the Satellite (Fuse), particularly if the Satellite has a strong (-) charge at the time.

So we are attempting to propel with electrons as fluids and capture also atomic matter sent from the Moon.

The two processes do not have to happen at the same time.  Perhaps the LC circuit pulses twice, and you send Electrons one time and Atoms another time in alternation.

I need to get some sleep.

Ending Pending

I have been very pleased to see it said that a CRT is a form of Electron Particle Accelerator.  My phone said so, but of course as always my computer is not the same.

Cathode Ray Tube: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube
Image Quote:

The original televisions would use the CRT method shown above.

An Electron Particle Accelerator that can send electrons at relativistic speeds, would need much more in the way of electric and magnetic methods to accelerate the electrons, I expect.

I am hoping the technology could be used to help propel spacecraft that travel interplanetary as well as the existing intention to make them travel interstellar.

I am thinking that a spacecraft surrounded by a magnetic field might receive the electrons.  So, you might not be striking solid materials but magnetic lines of force.

Ending Pending

(th) per your request: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 80#p236180

I will make some attempts.

Keep in mind that Copilot is likely more of a mimic, (Which is clever at arrangements of information), than it is a composer at this point.

A composer and a mimic may both play piano.  They are both important to the expansion of abilities.

But I have caught Copilot spouting dogma.it is a garbage in garbage out danger, which might compromise the ability to compose.  Never-The-Less it is becoming a valuable resource.

Electrons may tend to be about as common as the Nucleus of atoms, as far as I know.  For the whole universe, I don't know.

A bit like planets Electrons can be bound to a central mass of a star or collection of stars or "Rogue", as to be bound to a Galaxy or other possible attractor.

Similarly, it has to do with energy.  More energy allows an electron to go more Rogue, I believe.  But it's electron (-) charge, always wants to dance in some way with a atom nucleus (+) charge.

In some ways it is a pity that the transistor showed up.  Vacuum Tube (Valve), technology was more similar to what we might do in space than transistors are.

I am old enough that I was minimally trained to repair old type televisions.  Those had an electron beam which would be manipulated by magnetic fields from it's point of emission and would impact the phosphor on the screen of the TV.

These electrons would not have been as energetic as to be capable of accelerating a spacecraft (Much), and soon neutralized by hitting the phosphor.

Some matter allows electrons to more easily be borrowed, depending on the element.

A natural situation where electrons are borrowed from space plasma seems to occur with the Martian moon Phobos.

If I understand this properly the heavy [+) ions having more mass have a harder time getting to the leeward side of the moon Phobos but the Electrons (-) with lower mass can fill a sort of "Electron Cloud" on the leeward side of Phobos.

So the energy of the motion of the solar wind blocked by the moon Phobos causes a separation of (+) and (-) ions.  They will then mix and sort of combine somewhere downstream.

The need for a particle accelerator to generate "Super Rogue Relativistic Electrons", is a daunting notion to me.  But apparently someone thinks they could do it.

I have put my professional credentials at risk!  (I have none), to suggest what I am going to suggest but here goes.

Coffee and a pause to make a diagram.....................

OK let's try this and hope we will discover that it might work, or discovery why it won't work, as to know what does not work may indicate what else might work.

I suppose I am thinking of the Moon as a reservoir of Ions of opposite charges.  I am supposing that I can attempt to start with the electron beam I understand, which requires that the Cathode be heated and a strong (-) charge be applied to it.  As the "Platform" gets overcharged (-) however, I am thinking we have another electron beam emitted from the platform which will bend to touch the Moon after a time of passage around it.

The platform being of a (-) charge, I am hoping that the neutral or (+) charged ions from the Neumann Drive or Magdrive will be drawn towards the platform.  I am hoping that their energy level will be sufficient to cause the atoms to vacuum weld to the platform.  The danger might be that the energy level would cause them to erode the platform.

The Electron Beam I have suggested may be insufficient for the task so perhaps indeed particle accelerators would be needed.

This might not be too distant from electroplating, which is done on Earth, if it can be made to work.

If the bottom of the platform had attached plates to accumulate plated materials onto, then those might be removed and replace periodically  so that the accumulated mass may be further processed into a resource.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_deposition
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So, perhaps some future thinking would render something like this possible.

If so, then it will be a sort of Mass Driver or as I like to say Mass Projector.

I want to mention again that I think it is likely that the point where the return electron beam would impact the Moon could attract (+) and neutral Ions, atoms to itself.  This could include Hydroxyl (+) and water molecules.

But it would be tricky to incorporate that feature into the main process of projecting mass off of the Moon.

Ending Pending

I am willing to entertain this: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … d57acfd544  Quote:

I think that if the concentration of favorable genes though gene flow was a possible way to formulate part-populations that were efficient and capable of adaptation to a situation or set of situations, then the core of the collection of Africa and Eurasia, and India might be where this could be expected to occur more often.

You cannot have capability unless you are sufficiently efficient to still exist as a replicating pattern.  Capability though can give good rewards to provide efficiency.

Rigor stimulates adaptation, but reward gives a desirable boost.

I have wondered about the ice age world, and if there could have been a more intelligent sea fairing group or groups of people in that time.
A flash of collective genius which faded for some reason.

Oxygen levels have been a matter of interest.  Mountain peoples are impressive if they have adapted to low Oxygen levels.  However, until now they could not modify that rigor with invention, they could only adapt to it physically it seems.  The rigor has produced abilities that are to be respected.  However, the reward was perhaps not that massive.

During the Ice Age the Coasts were as much as 400 feet lower than they are now.  This then would have resulted in Oxygen displacement.

A person living on a coast then would have more Oxygen than a person that lives at an ocean coast now.

It might be a tiny difference but also it did probably matter.  The extra Oxygen in an ice age coast, would have been at the expense of the Oxygen displaced by the continental ice Caps.

It may be that this does not matter, but every breath a human take involves the movement of muscles and blood systems.  A body can endure the rigor of existing, but the balance between rigor and reward, may affect capability.

Perhaps you can think just a little better with just a pinch more of Oxygen.  The rigor of the seacoasts runs parallel to the mastery of it with technology.  Obviously, you might start with a raft then to a canoe, and then maybe Polynesian, Viking, or Innuit level technology.

The coasts would generally have lots of food, and also if you had to fear "Savages" you might want watercraft to move to an island refuge.

At this time we only have some below sea level areas, on the planet, and much of that is desert in nature, so not too rewarding.

But the Mediterranean Sea dried up due to geology at times so perhaps in those days, that could have been a good place to have a congregation of useful genes, and maybe a burst of genius.  An extra pinch of Oxygen may have been available.

When the ice caps melted, people adapted for that extra pinch of Oxygen might have struggled against inland peoples who were used to a lower Oxygen level.

Ending Pending

Other members now absent have suggested mushrooms in the past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GMXeJBzVg4
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Now add this:

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 22#p236122
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Now add this:

https://www.marscompany.com/data-centers

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Then consider other factors:

-Phobos and Demos to make power satellites out of, for beaming power down to the surface of Mars.

-Consider various large ice masses.  The easy ones are at low latitudes, but the more valuable ones may be near or at the poles.

Mars is almost perfect, with the exception of dust storms.

Starting with Korolev Crater: and then graduating to the North and South ice caps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korolev_(Martian_crater)
Image Quote:

If you have energy from Oribt and from the surface, you could use a laser beam to carve vaults and tunnels in the ice.

You could directly melt or evaporate the ice.  There would be more efficient ways to do that however.  You could route the water out of the ice body to a reservoir(s) perhaps around the edge of the ice body.

You then will have very large radiators.

Pressurized space in the ice modified with materials including those from mycelium, and heat pumps could make the spaces habitable for humans, robots, and Data Centers.

I think we might eventually find a way to modify the worst dust storms.

But perhaps at times the setup on Mars will hibernate until then.

So, why not make use of the cold and the expected waste heat to make Mars more valuable to the human race?

Even if Fission/Fusion becomes possible and competitive, we still have the cold of Mars as a resource.

Ending Pending