New Mars Forums

So this device is beginning to look like a top: https://fity.club/lists/suggestions/Spinning-Top-Gif/
Image Quote:

We need to keep in mind that the gravity of Phobos and Deimos is rather low.

If it is possible to use the wheeled mouth method to draw dust into this spinning device.  If the bottom is too pointy and sinks in too much then it can be broadened out.

While dust will not naturally cling to all inner surfaces of the device, we can make slag bricks and put them into bags and fasten them to the inner surfaces, to create radiation protection.

I suppose it might even be possible to embed a Standford torus inside of the "Top".

It could be possible but perhaps not sensible.  But the "Top" dust eater is, I think a real possibility.

Ending Pending

OK, I would like to take this a bit further.

Although I would like to Start with a Starship that could enter orbit that may or may not be an option.

1) In accordance with the current plans for Starship on Mars, we will expect to land a Starship on Mars, and refill it and then ascend to Phobos or Deimos to work with it.

2) Alternately using Electric Ion propulsion, we may push a Starship and the mining device from the previous post to proximity of Phobos or Deimos.  This would be stuffed with water ice and CO2 ice but no Oxygen or Methane.  We may need some kind of long term storage propulsion method included such as for the Super Drako's of Dragon.  When it is in place we might try to air brake a starship with humans in it to Mars orbit, or we have to do the method of #1.

If we have the Ice and CO2 Starship in orbit we can put a small cabin in it shielded by these that can host the humans and protect them from radiation.  So probably most of the Cabin and Cargo areas will be occupied by these.  The Oxygen and Methane tanks will be mostly empty, perhaps header tanks will be filled, using some of the water and CO2 and making Oxygen and Methane.

So, we attach this to one or more Starships in an assembly and begin collecting dust regolith into the collection bag.
(This is from the prior Post):

We might have to consume some propellants to do this, to provide the spin and the action to press it into the target.

Once it is filled, we may park a Starship inside of it, and perhaps maintain just a little spin to keep the dust in place.  We need a power supply and a method to bring portions of dust into a maker of some kind, to process it into Oxygen, Iron, and Slag Bricks.

The objective is work up to something much bigger from another post from another topic: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 28#p236828  A modification of something like this:

The work begins as tedious and slow, but over time this pyramid scheme grows and more and more humans and robots get aboard.

Dust Eather or a modification of it can extend from a much larger structure and go and take bites out of an object and disgorge them into the latest collection chamber.

It is thought by some that Phobos and/or Deimos have Carbon.  They will certainly have Oxygen and Iron.  Hydrogen is a bit of a wild card.  If necessary, it can be brought up from Mars itself by Starships as part of Ammonia which could be stored.

So, this sort of a skeleton of a notion.

If it could work out, then large amounts of Oxygen and Iron may be available as propellants in Mars orbits.  Having Ammonia and Oxygen various propulsion schemes may be possible, including Oxygen/Ammonia, and Oxygen/Methane.  These would not be dependent on surface solar energy, but more reliable orbital solar energy.

You would only need to make Ammonia, and enough Oxygen and Methane on the Surface to get to Phobos or Deimos.  Then you could be refilled for landing, rinse and repeat.  The Ammonia could be used to react with regolith and produce water, and I presume Nitrous Oxide.  Well once you had the water you could keep splitting it, to repeat the reduction of metal Oxides.

Perhaps it would make sense to have an Ammonia/Oxygen engine in the orbits of Mars?

Well, lets call it a "Maybe": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_Motors_XLR99

Maybe Jet Fuel, or RP-1 would be good.  If you could make it on the surface of Mars, then lift it with raptors, then it could be reacted with regolith while heated, in order to reduce the regolith.

Well, I think I will leave it at that. 

I am in favor of having humans both on Mars and in orbit of Mars.  To be in orbit you need good life support with protection but in some ways, the environment is better, some ways worse.

Ending Pending

(th) per: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 70#p236870

I am glad we have a mutual interest.  I did read "The High Frontier" so I understand to some extent what their proposals were.

They hoped to send sacks of Moon regolith by way of a Mass Driver from the Moon to one of the two stable "L" points.

They intended to fine tune the path of the sacks using an electron beam, I believe.  Then they hoped to have the sack rip open on a obstacle and the contents to spill into a rotating drum.

Probably not really workable, as it may cause a lot of trouble with equipment where it might get sand blasted.

But you have to start with a concept and try to make alterations until you can make it work, so they disserve lots of credit for their efforts.

I have seen notions that it is possible to accrete planets in an L4 or L5 zone, in this case Sun/Planet.  But I would like to try accretion into an L4 or L5 Earth/Moon situation.

We appear to have two candidate Matter Projectors the Neumann Drive and the Magdrive.  For sure they will both project Iron, Aluminum, and Copper.  The Neumann Drive can project most items in the Element Table, if they are conductive of electricity.

The High Frontier concept intended that bags of regolith flung off of the Moon would slow down as they approached the "L" point.  Perhaps to hundreds of miles an hour.

Now I will attempt to adapt that.  If we can tame our Matter Projector, to not go full throttle, perhaps we can get the spray to enter L4 or L5 at a reasonable speed.  IF we could use the solar wind to slow it down enough, we might get a capture into the orbit of L4 or L5.  So, the hope is to get is dusty and then accrete the dust.

Easier to say than do, I am sure.

If we can magnetize the dust, (In the case of Iron), then maybe we can get it to clump together).  Possibly an electron beam sweep could magnetize it, just a guess.  Where there is a electric flow, there should be a magnetic field.

But to use the Solar wind to break the dust, it needs to be of a small size, But if we can make it clump up perhaps the solar wind will not sweep it out of the "L4" or "L5" zone.  We also could think to make a massive magnetic field using superconductors, that device to orbit in a "L4 or L5.

So, in that case if we could get the solar wind to deflect the dust towards the magnetic field, it might spill into it an accrete.

For Iron which is below its curie point in temperature, this might work.  For other metals that may have eddy currents, this possibly might work, not sure.  I am not inclined to think that we could catch Oxygen or Oxide materials that I am familiar with.

But if we could project Iron from the Moon and Accrete it to a L4 or L5 location that would be huge.  Because it would be a building material and can be used as propellant in a Neumann Drive or Magdrive.

I might hope that Steel could be used in a Neumann Drive or Magdrive, and that the particles would be Steel, but I suspect that those alloys would be torn apart.  And Steel is typically not very magnetic.

It is possible that we could try to use electrostatics to accrete materials projected to L4 or L5, but I am relatively unsure.

If you wanted to keep either L4 or L5 clean for test equipment like Telescopes you might be able to do that as there are two of them.

Ending Pending

Perhaps it is not known yet, for practicality, I am interested to understand if it is possible to extract Oxygen from the Moon to use even at LEO?

There is some feeling that a Mass Driver is needed to make that practical.  But a Mass Driver is like and Chicken and Egg puzzle.  IF you don't have a process on the Moon to produce a cargo of value then their is no reason for a Mass Driver.  But perhaps if you build a productive process on the Moon and don't have a Mass Driver, then what good is that productive process?

So, the I have a hope, of a transport method that is less than an Mass Driver that can service a productive process on the Moon, until a mass driver process is justified.

So, we might consider the products to move to LEO, from the Moon, Iron and Oxygen.  We could also consider Iron Oxide.

Oxygen if of considerable value, but if you have to make it as a liquid on the Moon, and then transport it to orbit.  Then you have to keep it from boiling off.  That then requires excess mass to keep it liquid.  But Iron Oxide, may bring the useful substances Oxygen and Iron to LEO.

It will not boil, but we face a problem to overcome, that if your Iron Oxide is in the wrong form you might crated a collision pattern if your transport ship explodes.  So, size may matter.  Perhaps dust would be swept away.  Perhaps large chunks could be salvaged and cleared. 

So, Medium size might be the worst.  You have to be aware of sabotage.  Some people see you are servants that should not be going into space but should be serving their desires.  They are slavers.  Sometimes they can even be Leftists.  Baby Kings, that see their poopy diaper as the best use for you.  You are here to change their poopy diapers.

So we want a best process that is not any more vulnerable to Baby Kings than is necessary.

So, if we can bring Iron Oxide to a LEO refinery, where Hydrogen and solar energy, could be used to separate the Iron and Oxygen.  So, then you can use the Oxygen for chemical processes, such as breathing and rockets.  You can also use Oxygen Ice Cubes for propellants in a certain type of Mass Driver propulsion system.  You may use the Iron for building structures, and for propellant for Neumann Drive and MagDrive.

These then can help then to send cargos outward to higher orbits, even to the Moon and beyond.

I do not know if this a virtuous or not.  Is it profitable?  Well we may want to find out.

We did something like that in the Taconite Mines.  We separated magnetic Iron from tailings.  Then we had a concentrate That would be glued with clay and baked into pellets.  So, then the pellets could be made primarily of Iron, Oxygen, and Silica.  It was then suitable to transport and be of a good shape and size for a blast furnace.

On the Moon we may or may not want other substances in the mix than Iron and Oxygen.  Pure Iron and Oxygen may be harder to make, but you may or may not want to have the Silicon in LEO.

Silicon has uses though.  And Silicon can be used in Neumann Drive, I am not sure it can be used in  Magdrive for propulsion.

Anyway, if shipping can be accomplished from the Moon from LEO, that is gainful in result, perhaps eventually when the productive processes on the Moon are large enough, a Mass Driver(s) will be justified, and so the investment money can be justified to build one or more of them.

This is why I have suggested that parallel engines be put onto a Starship.  Such parallel engines which may run on propellants, Hydrogen and Oxygen, or Water and Aluminum may be derived from local Lunar Resources.

While it might be said, "Why don't you just have a Hydro-Lox" ship?  Well, a possible answer if boil off.

IF you have Liquid Hydrogen on the Moon, you can afford to have massive active cooling for that.  But a ship which has both Metha-Lox and Hydro-Lox engines could work like this.  The Hydrogen would be filled into the Ship along with Oxygen from the Moon.  I presume for now that the Methane comes from Earth.  The ship uses both the Methane and Hydrogen engines to lift off from the Moon.  All the Hydrgen is consumed.  It has a lot of power but now it is gone.  You continue with the Methane.   You do not need active cooling for the Hydrogen on the ship or in orbit as it has all been burned.  The Ship lifted a cargo, perhaps of Iron Oxide, and delivers it to a transport.  The ship is refilled in orbit with more Methane and then it goes ahead and lands back on the Moon, using only then Metha-Lox Engines.  The empty Hydrogen tanks and Hydro-Lox engines ride along.

Rinse and repeat.

You might use Alice Engines instead of Hydro-Lox engines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALICE_%28propellant%29

Then of course you need nano-powder Aluminum and water Ice.

Ending Pending

Please note that this post refers also to the prior post that was made today.

The value of Iron Oxide in space.

I wish to add Iron Oxide to the list of materials from the prior post:

Now:

So, now that we have slow-bulk propulsion methods, we then can begin in basic bulk cargo, and then expand that to less basic.

Basic:
-Metals, Carbon, Silicon (These can be use as propellants also, at least in Neumann Drive).
-Carbon (As a ingredient for Hydrocarbon Fuels).
-Water.
-Iron Oxide.

Expanded Basic:
-RP-1 Fuel.
-A water/Peroxide Mix (Needs to not be explosive).
-Other??? (To be determined).

If you have some Hydrogen and a source of heat, you may reduce the Iron Oxide and make water.
Then you may spilt the water and reuse the Hydrogen in the same manner.
Then if you have a mass driver that can expel Oxygen Ice Cubes, you may use Oxygen as a propellant.
Then you may use the Iron in a Neumann Driver or Magdrive.

So, it is my hope that Iron and Oxygen can be refined on the Moon and contrary to what some might think wise the Iron can be Oxidized.
Then if a Spaceship lifts the Iron Oxide to Lunar Orbit, you have lifted a "Pure" propellant to Orbit.

The cost for this then includes the propellants, the LOX from the Moon and the fuel from ???  (The Moon or Earth, or other).

But if the effectiveness of the Oxygen and Iron propellants is valuable enough then the propellants for the Spaceship may be justified.

Ending Pending

I had a dream that was partly lucid about buying a new suit that was very heavy, and had at least 50 Dickies in it.
These seemed to be all different plaids though: https://www.amazon.com/turtleneck-dicki … eck+dickie

I wasn't sure I wanted it but I wondered after taking it apart if I could put it back together again.

Then I woke up and found an unexplained puddle of water on my kitchen floor.

Then I listened to a video that made me wonder if the world is about tiny, brained people behaving in bogus manners, not really understanding, but trying to out-bogus each other?

I will see if I can get the video: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ac1e3bf29f  Quote:

My brain is full.

Pause......................

So, if this had occurred before we had Shale Oil, I am thinking that we would have to buy Foreign Oil with weak dollars.  But this is not currently a problem.  We also have food and fairly good water.

I think I dimly understand.

Our dollar low is an encouragement for foreign people to convert their currency to dollars and buy American produces.  I think.  Tariffs, discourage Americans from buying foreign goods with our weak dollars.

I do keep trying from time to time but I the end I have to plead stupid.  I see glimmers, but not the picture.

Ending Pending

We might avoid too much inflation, as we have quite al lot of resources internal to our country.

I feel compelled to interfere indirectly with this other topic: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 70#p236770
Quote:

By necessity you will need to be near a large ice slab that can be 130 feet deep.

In the process of mining ice by shaft, you can make a garage.  You could create a ramp which you could surface deeply with sized regolith.

As the ice tunnel may experience mass wasting you might expand your tunnel and spray cold steam on the walls of the original "Garage", to replace what is lost.

While not perfect, this system would likely maintain fairly constant temperatures and would be somewhat radiation protected.

Non ice structure might be used to strengthen the arch of the tunnel arch,  For instance fibers of some kind could be pressed to the arch walls while you sprayed cold steam to condense and glue it to the arch walls.  You might also deploy vapor barriers to keep the mass wasting down in magnitude.

IF you had a door to close the tunnel entrance then you might use a heat pump system to pull heat out of the garage and to send it deeper in the tunnels to extend the tunnels.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As for Iron Mining, it would be sensible to simply extract Iron from Mars soils.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_Mars
Quote:

You may eliminate much of the drilling, blasting and crushing, and just work with an "Ore" of fine materials that you can beneficiate.

Here might be a way: https://www.csiro.au/en/news/All/Articl … 0on%20Mars.  Quote:

Another way is to reduce the Iron in the soil by baking it in a Hydrogen bath or perhaps CO bath.  Then the reduced Iron can be extracted using magnetism.  The Concentrate then can be used is quality Iron ore and processed by a modern Hydrogen type Steel process, I think.

And here is a beneficiation process that involves biology: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 47#p236747
Quote:

So, really all you may want is to screen Mars soils and to beneficiate them to then make Iron from the concentrated result.

And so you can better make your garage with or without ice tunneling.

Ending Pending

I have to appreciate what China has discovered on the Moon: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … f953b99849  Quote:

Lunar soil is speculated to contain "hundreds of billions of tons of water."  (Stated a 9.22 in the video).  And I believe this does not refer to possible polar ice deposits.

https://blog.sciandnature.com/2025/01/c … es-us.html
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There is Nitrogen in the Lunar soil, perhaps from Earth: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature03929
So, with Water and Carbon in the Lunar soil it is possible to have agriculture on the Moon, I speculate.

So, perhaps if we have a refilling station at the Earth/Moon "L1", water might come from the Moon eventually maybe even Carbon.

Ending Pending

Well (th) I will entertain your query: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 55#p236755
Quote:

Questions from (th):

At one point Elon Musk was considering making it into a "Mini-Starship".  That was abandoned in order to focus on much larger sized Starships.  The 2nd Stage of Falcon 9, I believe is of an Aluminum/Lithium Alloy which is lighter than Stainless Steel, except that the heat shield would be much heavier than for Stainless Steel.  The 2nd Stage of Falcon 9 would burn up very fast in the atmosphere without a very, very good heat shield.  Therefore the Falcon 9 2nd Stage does not land on Earth at all but is either abandoned to a higher orbit, or sent to burn up in the atmosphere.

The Falcon 9 1st stage if it does land does a "Hover Slam".  It is a very tricky maneuver where somehow, they can calculate exactly how to throttle the engine down and when to shut the engine off.  If they calculate wrong the engine cuts off too soon and the ship crashes.  If they cut the engine off too late, the ship rises up again and then crashes.  They cannot throttle the engine down enough to simply hover.

Starship and Superheavy can both hover, which is an improvement.

It would not be practical to get the Falcon 9 1st stage into LEO on it's own power.  Perhaps some sort of Starship could lift it to LEO, but I am not sure that that would have a value.

The reason I am interested in bringing the Falcon 9 2nd Stage to Lunar orbit and then filling it and then landing it is that is is otherwise a throw away item.  Although the Merlin Engines coke up after a while, I am hoping that it would have one more burn in it, if it was a used engine.  One more burn to land some robots or other instruments to a location.  Maybe supplies to a base.  It itself could be valuable at a base for its metals.

Let's suppose that we had a propellants depot in Lunar Proximity.  You might use electric rockets to deliver RP-1 and water to it from LEO.
The depot would be capable of cracking the water into Oxygen and Hydrogen, in a quantity suitable to fill one Falcon 9 2nd stage.  Then you could land it.  (I have not stipulated any use for the Hydrogen Yet).

It would seem that the 2nd stage would have an even worse problem with throttling down the engine to land on the Moon, but that might be corrected by loading it down with a sufficient amount of Cargo.  Legs would have to be added to the assembly, I propose that they be made of materials wanted on the surface of the Moon, perhaps of Carbon and Plastics as much as possible.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Another interesting use for such a 2nd Stage would be to boost a Starship back to Earth from Lunar Orbit.  Merlins are not as efficient or powerful as Raptors, but there propellant "RP-1" can be stored and transferred much better than Methane.

Water Similarly could be transferred to a Lunar Proximate Depot much easier than Oxygen.

In both the case of RP-1 and Water, the vapor pressures being low at low temperatures you would not need active cooling during transfer by electric rocket.  This is a benefit because electric propulsion is slow and if you had to have active cooling hardware on the ship it would be excess mass, and would demand some of the electric energy budget.  If you had to spend tha extra electricity, then you have to have larger solar panels or a larger nuclear reactor, which then adds even more mass.

But if you bring RP-1 and water to a Lunar Proximate space station which largely holds position then that station can have a very large power supply which you might manipulate the propellants.  In the case of Falcon 9 2nd Stage, the RP-1 just has to be warmed up a bot to be fluid enough to pump, The water can be split into LOX and Hydrogen.  Since the Station does not move much it can have a massive power supply with a lot of inertia and can then be used to prevent the boil-off of the LOX.

We might microwave the Hydrogen to provide propulsion for station keeping.

Let's consider "L1" for the Station.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point
Quote:

Sorry, that is the Sun/Earth L1 not the Earth/Moon L1.  I will seek a more appropriate diagram.

This perhaps: https://www.thespacereview.com/article/2882/1
Image Quote:

Starship might be able to grab used Falcon 9 2nd stages from LEO, and bring them to a electric tug which would bring them and "RP-1" and water to the station at "L1".  The Station at "L1" would warm the "RP-1" for filling the Falcon 9 2nd Stages.  It would also crack the water into LOX and Hydrogen.  The Hydrogen might be used for Station keeping, being ejectred for propulsion from a VASIMR engine. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_ … sma_Rocket

Some station keeping is needed at "L1" as it it a bit unstable.

Now this leaves the question, would then Falcon 9 2nd Stage have enough power to go to the Moon and actually land with a payload?  Well, I am not sure.  If not, then the Station needs to be in the orbit of the Moon, closer into it.  In which case the Hydrogen thrust will also be wanted.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For the case of Hydro-Lox spacecraft the same method could be used but just with Water, no RP-1.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In the case of Starship and other Metha-Lox methods, I am hoping that the station can take Hydrogen from the water and use it to cook the RP-1 into Methane.  Not entirely confident for that.

But if you did have used Falcon 9 2nd stages you might use them to boost Starship while burning RP-1 and LOX>

But of course, Merlins get Carboned up.

I think that shipping a stable hydrocarbon and water to a processing refilling station might make sense.  I already explained why that could be compatible with electric propulsion such as Magdrive or Neumann Drive.  You might also ship Carbon or Dry Ice to get the proper balance of Carbon, Oxygen, and Hydrogen atoms to create the various propellants with.

I hope that that helps (th).

Ask for more if you like.

Ending Pending

Ending Pending.

So, I am continuing to be interested in the concepts that Firefly projects, and that of Magdrive and Neumann drive.  Those and of course the heavy lift capabilities in development such as SpaceX, Blue Origin, Rocket Lab Plus ULA?

The idea of depots in CIS Lunar Space, is growing.  Blue Origin has the notion of actively cooled Hydro-Lox, and some have speculated on low boil off methods for SpaceX Metha-Lox.

I am wondering about stored Jet fuel and water.  We already think about generating Oxygen and Methane on Mars from CO2 and Water.

Could you do it in Lunar Orbit, using Jet Fuel and Water?  I said Jet fuel, but really, I indicate fuel for Merlin Engines.  That fuel and water are low risk for boil off.  They are the Low Maintenance companions, I think.  Using Magdrive or Neumann Drive you might slowly move depots of them to a Lunar proximity, while having low maintenance costs for the preservation of the fuel and water.

Could you split the Hydrogen off of the water to produce Oxygen and then add that Hydrogen to the "Jet Fuel", to produce Methane?
Perhaps some kind of solar hot process might do that?  I know that it might want to produce other Hydrocarbons, but I would have a look at it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel
Quote:

So, it seems that in CIS Lunar Space, it might be possible to store both the Jet Fuel and Water as gel or ice.  Neither one has a very high vapor pressure I expect.  I think that makes them low maintenance.

And that brings up some interesting possible options as to if you could push either one of them out of a spaceship in the night side of the Moon during a landing event and then recover the substances before they evaporated.  That way your landing legs do not have to be as strong.  There could easily be locations on the Moon which will have no Carbon or Hydrogen to make fuel with.  Oxygen is fairly ubiquitous on the Moon.

But my primary interest is in a orbital depot in proximity of the Moon where Jet Fuel and water can be refined into various propellants.
Propellants for a Merlin Engine.
Propellants for a Hydro-Lox Engine
Propellants for a Metha-Lox Engine.

I will note that the stored products, "Jet Fuel" and Water will make good radiation protection.   So, the Merlin engines perhaps should be respected a little more as you can perhaps use "Jet Fuel" and Water as shielding before you use them for propellants.  Yes, you can do that with Methane and Hydrogen also but then you are suffering boiloff and cryogenic burdens.

The Jet fuel might also be subjected to electrolysis, if necessary to produce various materials.

Firefly intends to transport hypergolic propellant as I seem to recall.  I think that they could transport "Jet Fuel" and Water.

Also, it may be that water from the Moon will be worth lifting up to Lunar orbit, so then all you would send to Lunar Orbit would be Jet fuel.

In case you are new to this topic this post, #212, describes Magdrive: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 13#p236713

So, if it can all work as I hope it can this would be a very good tool kit for expanding into Space.

We also might consider if "Jet Fuel" could be transported to Phobos and Deimos, using Magdrive.  The two moons almost certainly can yield Oxygen so there would be no need to send water.  So a refilling method could be established in Mars orbit, I feel.

Ending Pending

By imposition and agreement, the focus of this topic> https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=11271
"Index» Business Proposals» Data Centers (Including Off World)"

Is kept narrower than I would like.  So, since the Moon seems such a good case for it, I will seek to develop it further here.

The view now indicates that things are already under intentions:
1) Starlink like networks.
2) Sun-Synchronous AI networks for Inference AI.
3) Moon development, with Neuralink.
4) Asteroid Mining.

This full set of objectives, achieved would give a chance at a worthwhile existence, I feel.

An Oxygen Bubble Radiator with internally nested sub-radiator systems is what interests me at this moment.

Checking the inventory of materials on the Moon 40-45% Oxygen and the rest being mostly metals and Silicon.  The total amount of Oxygen Bubble Radiators that could be created is vast.

Collecting solar power to electricity and dumping the heat from AI will require suitable heat sinks, and I think Oxygen Bubble Radiators may do well for the purpose.

From that mentioned topic I have this: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 02#p236702
Quote:

Quote:

On the Moon I am imagining very large Oxygen Cylinders laying on their sides.

I have previously suggested Oxygen at 1/3 bar, to be compatible with Humans and to decrease fire risk and to reduce the needed structural strength.  But I suppose higher pressures could be used.

After all Oxygen Cylinders on Earth don't seem to catch fire from pure Oxygen inside, so there must be some method to provide for that.
But if people are inside, then fire risk and breathing methods would need addressing.

I do not intend long term human habitation as radiation protection would run counter to the desire to radiate heat.

Where previously I mentioned only the shadowed craters of the Moon, I think much of the high latitudes would do, as you can put up vertical or angled walls of solar panels to capture energy and to shade the radiators.

In realty Neuralink and Virtual Reality could allow a person on the Earth to have one or more robot bodies on the Moon that it could temporarily inhabit with the persons consciousness.

So, if you had 10 billion people on Earth, you might have 20 billion Robots on the Moon, and perhaps 10 billion Robots on Earth.  People's minds may have one or more Avatars more than their human body.

There are various ideas for moving mass from the Moon.  There are matter projectors, and there are Elevator and Tether lifting concepts.

I myself am a bit interested in Magdrive and/or Neumann Drive to project matter to a receiver.  This might be done with conductive materials such as Metals, Iron, Aluminum, Copper, (Maybe other).

If by some means you can move mass from the Moon to its orbits, then Magdrive or Neumann Drive could be used for Asteroid missions to get materials from the asteroids to the Earth/Moon sub-system.

I have shown radiator fins to double as impactor protection.  Solar panels might also do some of that.

Or you might employ rows of chevron fins.

Anyway, lets imagine that eventually 50% of the Moons surface would be mostly covered in Oxygen Radiators.

While solar energy might be collected on the Moons surface, it might also be beamed down to the Moon form power plants in orbits.

And I do not prohibit the use of other power sources as they may be available.

Ending Pending