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So, in orbit there could be matter projectors that are linear or circular, or on a pivot.

Maybe there could be a Spiral Mass Driver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral
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So, it may be possible to have a factory/habitat, that is spun up by the use of Electric Rocket propulsion or some other method, and to have a spiral path in it which will be a magnetic mass projector.  It may be that the walls of the tube push the load, or that an engine in the tube use the walls of the tube as a stator and serves as a armature to push the load.

If the load is pushed by an engine, it may be that means can be constructed to retain the engine and eject the load.

It is not wrong to think that two counter-spinning flywheels could support this.  Then their inertia could be used to generate the sudden need of a lot of electric power.  One of the flywheels could have the spiral tube for a Mass Driver/Projector.

I would imagine that the form of Electric Propulsion to spin the flywheels could either be electric rocket or motor.

But the altitude of the orbit would also need modification, which likely would be to push its orbital altitude upward from the central object that is being orbited.

So, two flywheels in spin opposition might be storage for energy that might be discharged at a high rate.  But you could use capacitors instead.

The spiral scheme is one where you can harvest the spin of the flywheel just by dropping it from te center to the outside of the flywheel.
But you could add additional speed using electromagnetics along the path.

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I see you have expressed opinions.

I have opinions also.  My opinion is that your words are opinions and nothing more than that.  And I don't agree with them.

You can have your opinions.  I can have mine.

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I have some concepts that obviously derived from other people concepts.  It is just possible that at times I may find a associated concept that seems to come from me.

Your question is very important.

The mind of humans is individual and collective.  The individual and the hive mind.

Pause..........

In my thought experiment.....

Females tend to have more verbal skills, and males may have more math skills and do have more special relations skills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_relation

You will notice that verbal skills relate to the hive mind.

A female teacher of mine in high school said that it is feminine men who become chiefs of a tribe.  Often an alpha male very good as a warrior who seems dominant, but a male with verbal skills obviously can work better with both female and male tribe members.

Having verbal and perhaps art skills, a tribal library can be created, perhaps only oral tradition, and some rock paintings, but this becomes a primer for the direction that the young will develop.

So, "Library" is read only memory. The Hive mind joins the separate individuals together.  But the Individual is more likely to add to the "Library".  If you are deep into the hive mind, you do not favor the new but recall the old.

So, a community such as a nation or other entity such as a belief system can think, and recall.  It can regard something.

For instance, the EU regards the American interest in Greenland in a negative way.  They don't understand that we need it so that we can create clothing optional resorts for our A.W.F.U.L.'s from Minnesota.

Visitors will have their eyes blindfolded first.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am going to take this liberty to posture a notion about human intergender process, that may cause the fall of an empire.

We know that many animals require acceptance from a female before a procreative act is allowed.
Dolphins rape, so there are exceptions.  But rape is a test of sorts.  (I can hear the screams).  No, I do not regard it to be a acceptable thing.

But the mechanics for procreation usually require a sperm cell to meet an egg cell in a nurturing situation.  I think that it is truth to say that that is not always done in ways that we want to accept.  Sometimes brute strength allows it.

But often females expect a contest between males.

And there may be the problem.  There is what her consciousness says to her she as wants.  There is what she says she wants.  But there is what do here genes want?

Pause..............

She mostly has the same genes as a male, but here epigenetics control how the genes are expressed in reality.

A tested example of this is for the avoidance of inbreeding.  Sisters tested to small brothers T-Shirts will be relatively repulsed by the odor but may accept a non-relative's odor in preference.

So, could the female population of a tribe/nation turn traitor to its male population?  And under what circumstances?

IN the Roman Empire it seems to have happened.  It appears from stories and rumors that females attaining high status, may have felt that their population had no worthy males.  So, then that may have cause them to make damage to the society, to pull down their own house so that it could be raped by a more powerful set of outside males.

It is perhaps like a drug where you cannot ever get enough.  You finally got on top of the Men and got some wealth, and yet you want more, and resent that you are not getting more.

Western Europe is likely enjoying being raped at this time as it is.  The USA is barely managing to say NO!

You have to consider that Nature does not value intelligence, unless it perpetuates genes.

So, females will not select for intelligence, only dominance.

Lots of good materials for you to condemn in this post.

The question of Neoteny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny

It is my opinion that societies that allow more power for males in mate selection will become more Neotenous.  They are selecting for there opposite.  (China?  Japen?).

Cultures which give more power to the females will become more robust, in my opinion.  Females exploit cucks, but when they are most fertile are compelled to seek the masculine robust.

The Hairiest men are in the middle east, I think, but that is only one aspect of Neoteny.
https://www.curlcentric.com/what-ethnic … Caucasians.
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You would think that north Europeans would be the hairiest, but they are not, it seems.

Carl Young, I seem to recall indicated that Catholics are Feminine.  But Muslims, Protestants, Jewish People and Communists are Masculine.

But most of those have only existed for a number of centuries at most.  So, their previous cultures may have been feminine.

I have deviated a bit, but the interaction of collections of individuals and their cultural roots could affect their epigenetics over time and also even the predominance of genetic traits, among those being the contrast between Efficient/Capable, Gracile/Robust, and other polarities that may experience deviation/drift over time.

Hurl some outrage at me or some insults, or ask some questions.

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Spin Launch is a load attached to a center of spin.

A circular mass driver could be a track on the rim of a Lunar crater.  And so it may not have a central pivot point.

A Mass Driver in orbit could have a center pivot anchor or be of a circular track with no pivot.

In the case of a circular track, the load may be accelerated by circling the track many times.  Then at a certain point a method to release the load from the track is needed.

In the above cases the mass driver is imagined as being stationary, even if not really true.  The Mass Driver then send loads to an alternate location.

But a ship might have a Mass Driver mounted on it.  And it could expel loads to create a action/reaction propulsive method for the ship.

For this one Oxygen could be convenient as throw mass, as near the Earth/Moon and likely near Mars/Phobos/Deimos, the Oxygen can be expected to vaporize when subject to a heat source such as sunshine.

This would keep the travel routes free of Oxygen collision hazards.

Oxygen when liquid or solid, I believe is paramagnetic, so might be manipulated directly with a magnetic field.

I am interested in Iron Oxide in Space, because using a method to roast it with Hydrogen you can extract the Oxygen indirectly into water, and then split the water expel the Oxygen, reuse the Hydrogen and have Iron that you could use as propellant or for building structure.

Saying that and understanding that accidents happen, it would be important to not have an explosive event scatter lots of Iron Oxide material in an orbit.  The Moon has self-cleaning orbits.  In those orbits, an object will over time eventually collide with the Moon.  So, a ship can be OK in such an orbit as long as it has a means to maintain orbit, using a propulsive device.

For Earth orbits it might be better to use water, and so for instance if you had Carbon, you could split the water, eject the Oxygen for propulsion and make Methane out of the Hydrogen and Carbon, then sell the Methane, possibly for use in association with Lunar activities.

For Mars orbit, I guess you just need good hygiene.  Water is easier to lift from Mars than from Earth.  But Iron Oxide could be manufactured from the substances of Phobos and Deimos.

I hope that helps (th).

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From post #241: Quote:

The above "Omega Loops" could be two circles and not two ovals, so then this is rather complex, as it has a central pivot point and yet two oval or circular tracks.

Thems are sort of wheels within a wheel.

The whole mass is a flywheel, which can be spun up with a propulsive method.  I am thinking Neumann Drive or Magdrive, but could be an Oxygen Mass driver or something else.

The "Loops" are tracks of slides if you like.  I have imagined an engine with a load that could "Fall" down though the synthetic gravity to the end of the oval loop and drop its load overboard to launch it.  The engine then coasts back up to the pivot point.

But of a "Loop" were circular, you could spin around it a number of times, but there would be significant stresses to the structure doing that like an unbalanced washing machine.  You could do it though, but the structure might need fortification.

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So, I mentioned the things I think can be practical for space propulsion:
1) Chemical
2) Electric Ion
3) Centrifugal Launch
4) Mass Drivers.

I have mentioned "Oxygen Mass Driver", and there is some reason to think it could be a method of propulsion for a ship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver
https://lunarpedia.org/w/Mass_Drivers
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Lunarpedia mentions this:

That is something I have not studied very much.  I wonder if an induction motor method might allow Oxygen ice chips to be accelerated though a tube and then "Vented" in a particular direction?

Anyway, if you think about it the Moon could provide Oxygen, but also Phobos and Deimos could as well.

Some near Earth Asteroids may be accessible and perhaps their Oxygen could be used in propulsion.

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The fact that these devices would spin, suggests that synthetic gravity treatments for humans could be in association with these devices.

It is possible that these devices could be in circular orbits or elliptical orbits.  They may benefit from having mass where the mass if part of a flywheel, and also life support aspects.

Spooled Tether, in a tunnel, that can unwind like a casting rod.

Although the drawing is defective, the "Load" could be hooked up in the central space where the spool is and then the load could be pushed out of the central area though the tube, and the cable to unreel moving the spin energy from the structure more to the load.  And then by some method the load could be unhooked, to be accelerated to an altered orbit.

The device may have multiple floors not shown in the drawing.

Humans and Robots could be hosted inside the structure.

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From the previous post:

To this you could add Orbital Ship Launch Mass Driver, and T.A.R.S.

Calliban introduced this some time back:
TARS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97MlXLBYUdw

I would think to modify it though to be a spinning rail type Mass Driver.

I was looking at something like that in this post: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 67#p235367
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Keep in mind that this is new puzzling so do not expect final forms:

OK, so you could perhaps use a Neumann Drive or MagDrive to spin up a rail type system that a mass driver rail  propulsion could be associated with.

If SpaceX gets a Mass Driver on the Moon working, then it could send materials to build a device like this.  So, a spaceship might get a quick boost from such an orbital system.

It could be just a electric train type system, but that of course would not give much acceleration, but still even 1/10 of a ships speed to a destination provided would change the "Rocket Equation" nicely.

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Actually, the main function of the electric train would be to keep it bonded to the rails and the spin would cause the payload to accelerate as it traveled down from the center to the end of one loop.

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Well, this may after all be a maybe,

Oh well!

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So, going forward, Chemical Rockets, and Electric Rockets seem to be the two practical paths I have so far looked at.  These are both "Mass Projectors".

In the case of Electric Rockets, I think it could be fair to call them a form of Mass Driver, as well as Mass Projectors.

Mass Drivers seem to be a sort of machine that expels matter, using electric energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver
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So, some have thought about casting dust our of a mass driver with the hope that the forces of the sun, Solar Wind, or Photons, will push it away from the "Shipping Lanes".

But of course, I am interested in expelling Oxygen from a Mass Driver, to propel a spacecraft.  Probably ice cubes of Oxygen.

So, if that were possible then of course many worlds are full of Oxygen, including the Moon.

So, there would be 3 methods of propulsion that I think are practical:
1) Chemica.
2) Electric Ion (Argon, Metals).
3) Mass Driver (Dust, Oxygen Ice).

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I appreciate your comments GW Johnson.  The deice is exciting.  I hope it will prove out.

I think it would compliment the Starship as to be able do some things very well that maybe the Starship will not.  But I think both schemes may be of great value.

I think Starship has the edge to go to Mars, as Methane is easier to contain against boil off and other problems with Hydrogen.

From what I recall for news articles, the device will only work with Hydrogen as a coolant, but it is very effective in cooling, so that they can endure greater heating on the way down, perhaps being more efficient in sheading inertia.

I hope that this will all hold true.

I also hope the device can be sized up to Starship size.

Lots of hope, searching for evidence. but hopeful.

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It will be very difficult to convey understanding.  We speak a similar language but have different life references.

From our point of view we have a desire to set up a survivable situation going forward.  And if possible, those who think that Greenland should become American, think that with that position they could better protect western Europe.  Your ranks are full of traitors of various kinds, continually undermining the strength of America on purpose.

But if you check the post my post #1, I suggested a circumstance of compromise that I thought would work.  Territory for American Bases that we could not legally be evicted from.  For the Greenlanders, perhaps a commonwealth self-government such as some of our territories have.  Even places that Denmark and it's "Friends"? could have a position in.  Wealth for the Greenlanders and self-government on much of the territory.

But I don't think the current administration has trust at this point because Europeans have become untrustworthy.

We can see forward on the chess board, and we want to avoid some unfortunate possibilities.

The Military Aspect is the most important issue.

Do you realize that while I had to work 64 or more hour work weeks for much of my working life, Europe was on holiday?  But never mind, it was to some degree choice as we were more or less told that we had to provide our retirements.

Now, imagine that this is when the western Roman Empire fell, because the Latins do not know how to work in half of the world.  Imagine that America is the Eastern Roman Empire where the character of the Greeks allowed them to work in Europe, Africa, and Asia.

You can only repel the Russians and try to climb on top of them from time to time until you get your butts kicked once more.

They are not a people you can climb on top of.  If you were the Mongols, you could surround them and make them pay tribute.  But you are not the Mongols and we are nyet! either.  And we are happy on this continent.  Given a chance the Russians will sell minerals to us, if we have money, as I think that they also like money.  So, we need to have money to deal with them (And weapons).

Obviously, we will work with the Russians when we can.  But we will count our fingers.

America has worked with the Russians many times.  We even bought Alaska from them.  If the Orange Man has matters with the Russians, that is not necessarily betrayal, but him doing his duty to America.

The more West Europe becomes trouble for us the more we have to look for other options.

Do you remember WWII, when the NAZI and Japan threw a party?  Now we have a Western Europe where I would be afraid to travel to because they might do something to me for the words, I type on my computer.

Now Carney, the sweet child of Britan and West Europe is over in China trying to sell Canada to China.  That just looks too familiar.

Fascist behaviors in Western Europe and cultivating an Axis power in the Pacific?

We do need to be careful.  The bear may bite, but maybe there are other things to fear in the dark forest.

Half of Western Europe is Socialist, Communist, or Fascist, and have contempt for America.  We will not wait around to be raped.

West Europe had plenty of time to offer a compromise that we could trust.  But instead rushed to judgement.

I am sorry if your silver market does actually go wrong.  I don't think the Orange man did it on purpose.  And I am not gloating.

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There has been some value gained from all of this.

1) We discover that some of the Europeans have some very bizarre behaviors and attitudes.  Good to know, but a bit sad.

2) The Russians don't seem to be aligning to hard again the USA about this (Yet).

Anyone with a sensible mind would have come up with a way for everyone to get what they want, without so much weird behaviors.

I suggested something in post #1.

Since they don't I have a bad feeling about European intentions and what they think about America.

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