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#1 Re: Intelligent Alien Life » Traces of Civilization? - Analysis of selected Mars images » 2003-06-30 16:31:20

crop1.gif

One can ask what angles and alleys are seen through that 'cold, dead, dry, dusty dune of a place?'

http://www.commonsensecentral.com/2003/crop1.gif

Are they dunes or dust covered alleys?

One can always wonder. What's YOUR opinion?
Where are the lines to be drawn?
Is it a trick question?
What do you believe?
Is it true?

Bob... ;-{)
http://www.commonsensecentral.com

#2 Re: New Mars Articles » The urgency question - Could we lose our chance to go? » 2002-07-01 19:00:24

I think a good example of the mystical aspect of extreme environmentalism is the concept of Gaia, that the Earth is somehow one gigantic living being and that humanity is more often than not her nemesis.  It's a kind of anthropomorphism of the entire planet.  I think this mystical quality is important for a lot of people because it builds an emotional bridge to their beliefs.  Unfortunately such emotionally motivated beliefs often obliterate any sense of rationality

Actually, the brutal truth of HOW you think, move fingers and then type what you think on these marvelous machines of ours comes from sparks of chemically induced electricity flowing across the holes (synapses) of your mind.  Is it so prepostorous for the electromagnetic spectrum field that inhabits a human and enables it to function to 'think' that a similar electromagnetic spectrum field isn't somehow 'aware' of the Universe on its own level?  Talk about anthropomorphism in the extreme.  Who is REALLY electromagnetically 'powerfull' enough to say to the Universe:
It can't be that way?

smile

#3 Re: New Mars Articles » The urgency question - Could we lose our chance to go? » 2002-07-01 11:25:46

I share Zubrin's views regarding the urgency of becoming a two-planet species. ...McKay is off-base in his assertions, in my opinion. I'm a bit more pessimistic. If we don't start working for a permanent human presence on Mars now, our species could lose the opportunity. We are only one large-scale bioterror attack or nuclear exchange away from a new Dark Age. Too much is at stake.

We had such grand plans:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/taskgrp.html

Besides humanity's own stupidy for STILL living in the Dark Ages where the following still prevail that we are:


1.

#4 Re: Water on Mars » Duck n Cover - Water but no jubilee and still hiding » 2002-06-08 20:49:39

Duck n Cover

Well it seems NASA/JPL is playing Duck n Cover once more.  Rather than FACE any questions directly by LIVE TV cameras and tape recorders and LIVE reporters, they ducked a press conference and went scurrying for cover after 'leaking' its biggest turnaround in 26 years so far to date anyway, LOTS n LOTS n LOTS of water on Mars, NOW!  Not a gazillion years in the past, but laying there just a yard down into that previous 'cold, dead, dry, dusty dune of place' that they had been touting to the public for this past quarter century.  They have put the CO2 fluid proponents off the stage for good with this one, yet they refuse to make a big deal of it, politically.  Which is surprising since this whole Mars 'Investigation' is as dual an exercise in the science of politics as it is about the politics of science.  FOLLOW THE WATER was the NASA/JPL mantra repeated and repeated and restated that water would be needed for LIFE and for PEOPLED missions.  Yet now with finding literally a planet-wide ocean of the stuff, they fail to toot the horns and throw their hats into the air with jubilee?!  This is most definitively NOT the NASA of the Apollo era, or even Pathfinder so recent where more emotion was forthcoming than had been seen in a long time, and has not been really seen since.  I mean when the Principle Investigators need to be 'dragged kicking and screaming':

http://www.space.com/science....22.html

to see things that others already knew is a far cry from a scientific enthusiasm for new data, no matter how it may shatter precious preconceived notions of false perceptions.

Again, many like Effrain Palmero and Jill England knew it was SEEPING out ALL over the place:

http://home.attbi.com/~palermo63/Mars_A … mages.html

along with images of LIQUID water ON the surface:

http://home.thirdage.com/Teaching/rhw007/M0901354.gif

the real 'news' actually is that NASA/JPL, while releasing their OWN leak, decided to cancel their press conference BECAUSE of that leak. Which is surprising since they had previously said there was OCEANS of water on Mars TWO ( 2 ) YEARS AGO ! ! !

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast29jun_1m.htm

And in the 'new leaks',

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/rapidpdf/1073722v1.pdf

http://grs.lpl.arizona.edu/results/presscon2/

it seems that the HIGHEST temperature possible (according to Odyssey's instruments???) ON THE SURFACE of Mars remains STILL locked in at 0 deg C, or 32 deg F, or, to put it more importantly, the point at which (pure) WATER ICE becomes a liquid here on Earth.  Why is that?, when Pathfinder recorded a balmy 70 deg F on the surface?

In additional observations about this 'science by press release' and the politicizing of the story, I would have thought that these Mars NASA/JPL scientists and Principle Investigators would be just a wee wee LITTLE bit more inclined to step out of those big ol' boxes their intellects have been stuck into for more than 25 years.  Apparently I was wrong, they are JUST AS ENTRENCHED AS EVER in their little preconceived notion of what is up there on Mars:

http://www.space.com/science....30.html

"They could always boil the water and not have to worry about bacteria. My guess is, based on everything we know at Mars is that water would be pretty pure, with no organic matter in it at all," Boynton said.

Maybe Dr.William Boynton, principal investigator for Odyssey's gamma ray spectrometer suite at the University of Arizona, Tucson should do some more investigations into such things as GIANT LIFE FORMS!!! 

http://www.curiousnotions.com/mars/index.html

Or even to take another look at Dr. Levin's work now that it is being confirmed as being real AND valid AND positive scientific results?

http://www.biospherics.com/mars/

http://space.com/science....28.html

At least Dr. Gil Levin has his OWN intellectual strings still in his own control:
"I am surprised that no mention was made of putting the Pathfinder data and the Odyssey data together," Levin told SPACE.com. "Pathfinder found the surface temperature of Mars to exceed freezing, and Odyssey reports near-surface ice over wide regions including the Pathfinder landing area, and the Viking landing areas," he said.

And it is sad that this mentality of NOT connecting the dots and seeing LIFE is not located in just ONE of these great PHD's currently involved with Odyssey:
"Bruce Jakosky, an astrobiologist at the University of Colorado in Boulder, said the Odyssey data points to a climate story, rather than a biology tale. "

And despite Pathfinder reporting 70 deg F surface temperatures this feller STILL believes this:

"At present, there is no way to warm this water ice enough to get even trace amounts of liquid. The ice is in equilibrium with atmospheric vapor," he said.

One wonders just when oh when oh when will the 'blinder' on that Lady of Justice fall and she can once more 'see the light of truth'?

And if you expect this news to SPUR a new push for a humaned mission soon?:

"Odyssey's revelations, Garvin said, will not alter NASA's step-by-step plan to explore Mars. "  Which means a possible sample return by 2015, and NOT a humaned mission until sometime AFTER 2020.
 
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/future/2005-plus.html

Yet we once had such grand plans:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/taskgrp.html

How did we waste our history?

"Mars will not let us down," Garvin concluded.  No, but NASA/JPL have once again done EXACTLY that despite confirming with detailed maps what they ALREADY had announced back on March 1, 2002; that they had said two years ago in June 2000; that there was LOTS of water on Mars just below the surface.  This news conference was hopefully to be something MORE than just a more detailed map of the previously disclosed gross distributions. 

New 'news' NASA's Oceans on Mars:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cydonia/message/16944

Not only did NASA let us down by pulling a no-show, they have yet to follow through on past promises with MGS MOC and Odyssey data releases.  To 'just get the data out there'.

Promise to image Cydonia and release images:

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/od … 20121.html

And the MGS MOC promise NEVER fulfilled:

http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/cydonia.html

and which NASA admitted in a FOIA to me.

Also it has been awhile since the April 2002 Cydonia Face and D&M Pyramid image has since already been acquired by the THEMIS, except that not ALL of the information acquired at the time ( when was the image acquired ? we'd like to know NASA ) was released to the media and the taxpaying public, nor to those of us who are truly interested in this enigmatic area.

Here is a PRIME image of the famous D & M pyramid and the Cydonia Face and in further study and homework we learn that a full five color visible image AND a 9 spectrum infrared image is available ON THE SENSORS at the SAME TIME as this Odyssey space craft is flying over the most interesting landscape on the planet, in near-perfect lighting, and ONLY ONE (1) , repeat ONLY  1 ( ONE ) sensor bank was 'commanded' to be 'read' by the onboard computer???

C'MON ! ! !

I will only 'presume' that IF, and HOPEFULLY, ALL the bands were commanded to be read, AS IS POSSIBLE, for this image; that the withholding of this information is 'political'.  If that is the case, then we should do all we can do to peacefully change this political conundrum.  Because if ALL the bands were NOT commanded to be read, then that is one wasted wonderful opportunity to really show us all out here the FULL capabilities of this instrument in a landscape that has attracted more of humanity's attention on Mars than any other.  THAT would be a shame.  Sort of like letting George gut the White House for an indoor baseball field.  Or like watching the hearings now concerning the failures of our intelligence agencies to handle the data they acquire in a manner that is accurate or timely.  NASA seems to be having the same problems concerning ANYTHING about Cydonia on Mars!  The very FIRST Cydonia Face image they had with the MGS MOC was distorted so bad that it has earned the nickname the 'Catbox' image.  And the latest image has only ONE band of sensors operating???

People say I and others calling for the IMMEDIATE release of the raw data from these spacecraft should just wait.  We've BEEN waiting.  When data is finally released, in the last Mars Face MOC case it was THIRTEEN months when they are only 'allowed' SIX months, not only is it late, it is actually been distorted when presented to the public. 

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/stereo … esults.htm

Only the raw data remains pure.  And THAT continues to be withheld beyond allowable limits, and ALL that raw data is possibly NOT being acquired by the THEMIS team!  Should we wait and wait to find out that the THEMIS team 'blew it' like our intelligence agencies did?  That the NASA bureaucracy is just as 'overwhelmed' to undertake it's task properly as is other branches of our government?  Our intelligence agencies are beginning to ask for the American Public's help in defending the homeland, maybe its time NASA started asking for the help of the image analysts out here with processing all that raw data they are sitting on.  We can at least do better than this very FIRST presentation of the Cydonia Face to the public back in 1998 after a quarter century of a lack of data, and the FIRST try out, located on the left in the image below,

http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/facecomp.jpg

was a complete 'Catbox' effort.  Sadly, some of the efforts regarding Cydonia haven't gotten much better by them.  If they aren't going to do their jobs and do HONEST science with this raw data, at least they should let us out here do it for them.  Or at least also live up their already made promises, and to only hang on to that raw data they want for 'egotistical publishing' purposes for the 6 months they are allowed, instead of DOCUMENTED 13 months.  That is just plain dishonesty out in the open where the Principle Investigator knows there will be no penalty for flaunting the rules in our CYDONIAN FACES.  So why should the University of Arizona act any different?  They haven't yet.  There STILL has been NO pre-announcement of imaging of Cydonia, and NO releasing of the raw data.  Our government tax dollars hard at work, but not for us.
THAT is the sad BRUTAL TRUTH ! 

Let's taunt a Billionaire to Mars ! ! ! Beats Begging.

Think out there act down here... NOW ! ! ! Have YOU ??

Give a High School kid a reason to care...a spacewalk.
Teach 'em a lesson in teamwork.
Teach 'em a lesson in humanity.

Bob... ;-{)

http://home.thirdage.com/Teaching/rhw007/index.html

http://members.tripod.com/rhw007/

http://communities.msn.com/JPLMarsExploration

#5 Re: Water on Mars » Huge water ice reservoirs found on Mars! » 2002-05-28 09:10:22

I really and truely doubt it was... well... modified. Especially since raw PDS data is, well, almost impossible to ?fake.? If you could do it I would be very impressed.

Well we already KNOW that the April 2001 FACE image released from the MGS MOC on May 25 2001 that was 6 weeks AFTER acquisition was 'skewed' and improperly orthorectified once we got the raw and ancillary data 13 months later.  How will we KNOW about the April 2002 Cydonia Odyssey image UNLESS they RELEASE the raw and ancillary data WITH the image????

No one is denying them their ' 6 month embargo ' on data and images they withhold for 6 months, BUT on an ALREADY RELEASED public relations release image, WHY HOLD THE ANCILLARY AND RAW DATA BACK???

And also 6 months is supposed to be 6 months. period!

Let's taunt a Billionaire to Mars ! ! ! Beats Begging.

Think out there act down here... NOW ! ! ! Have YOU ??

Give a High School kid a reason to care...a spacewalk.
Teach 'em a lesson in teamwork.
Teach 'em a lesson in humanity.

Bob... ;-{)

http://home.thirdage.com/Teaching/rhw007/index.html

http://members.tripod.com/rhw007/

http://communities.msn.com/JPLMarsExploration

#6 Re: Water on Mars » Huge water ice reservoirs found on Mars! » 2002-05-26 21:52:52

NEW NEWS OCEANS ON MARS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/te … 009318.stm

Water, even LIQUID water on Mars was stated at the very first Odyssey briefing, the May 9 lecture and of course, for YEARS already by members of the Cydonia Village who do NOT need someone else ( in this case the BBC ), to actually THINK for themselves and to LOOK at the data that is there and come to their OWN intellectual conclusions rather than dance at the end of someone's puppet strings.

LIQUID WATER ON MARS ! ! !


http://home.thirdage.com/Teaching/rhw007/M0901354.gif


http://www.geocities.com/rhw007_y/


It's also been SEEPING out ALL over the place, if one bothers to look:


Cydonian Villagers Effrain and Palermo SEEPS:

http://home.attbi.com/~palermo63/Mars_A … mages.html


The Mars lecture series by Dr. Gibbs let 'slip' in the Q n A session that they ALREADY HAVE ACQUIRED infrared nighttime images of the Cydonia area, note plural images! This upcoming May 30 news conference should have more and LOTS more than simple H20 'findings'. Its been found and mapped in gross distributions. While I am sure that more 'detailed' water maps have been done in the interim since the March news conference, we ALREADY knew in March that there was LOTS n LOTS of water that NASA/JPL were finally ready to admit being there. Sorta like Dr. Mikey n Dr. Kenny having to come kicking and screaming:


http://www.space.com/science....22.html


http://www.space.com/science....28.html


NEW NEWS OCEANS ON MARS???


No, water and oceans of it, is not 'new' news to those who have followed the issues and thought for themselves. So one would hope that REAL NEW DATA like the multiple nighttime infrared images of the Cydonia Mensae Area would be released, ALONG with the raw and ancillary data this coming May 30, 2002. Along with the ancillary data from the April 2002 Cydonia Mensae Face and D & M Pyramid images including WHICH filter band, of the 14 that were available and ALREADY FULLY on the sensor, was actually commanded to be read by the computer and tramsitted to Earth. Also an interesting answer would be to find out what happened to the data that was on the rest of the sensor bands as it passed over this enigmatic area. Why wasn't it released with the Public Release of the image itself? Will we have to wait ANOTHER THRITEEN ( 13 ! ! ! ) months to receive the ancillary data from the April 2002 Odyssey Cydonia image like we had to wait for the April 2001 Cydonia Mars Gloabal Surveyor MOC data???!!! There is only a 6 month LEGAL 'embargo' period contracted with these 'private principle investigators', so why the extra delay?


Also what would be really really NEW news would be a TRUE COLOR image of the 'life forms' found at the poles:


http://www.curiousnotions.com/mars/index.html


Sure would be nice if we could all LOOK and STUDY some TRUE COLOR images of these enigmatic features!!! Now THAT would be NEW news!


And of course TRUE COLOR and the nighttime infrared images of the Cydonia Mensae area, if acquired the right longitude and latitude would help SETTLE the ultimate question and hypothesis:


That the following is an ARTIFCIAL exhaust vent that is CURRENTLY active in the middle of DOWNTOWN CYDONIA:


http://members.tripod.com/rhw007....nia.htm



Now THAT is one 'crazy' hypothesis I am sure many are thinking. NASA/JPL has ALREADY ADMITTED that they ALREADY have data which could confirm or deny that hypothesis. Between the nighttime infrareds and the TRUE COLOR images of this feature in this area of MARS we could have all the best available data to examine this extraordinary claim.



Dr. Sagan stated that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Well also true is that extraordinary evidence requires extraordinary investigation, and an extraordinary investigation requires an extraordinary review and discussion process that is publicly open and honest.



The BIGGEST question that remains to be answered this Thursday on May 30, 2002 in the second 'official' Odyssey news conference; is EXACTLY how honest, and how open, and how encompassing, and how brutally truthful that conference will be and whether the DAWGs of JPL can be kept at bay. Despite promises made and already broken, one can remain hopeful that maybe, finally, they will get past the Brookings Mentality and let every one discover that we are NOT still living in the Dark Ages when humanity was thought to be:


1. All alone

2. On a flat Earth

3. At the center of the Universe

4. As it revolves around us

5. Riding on the back of a giant turtle


We'll all breathe-in, breathe-out and get over realizing that the first item is just as false as the rest. That can ONLY come if NASA/JPL decides to REVEAL the TRUTH and ALL, repeat ALL the DATA it has gathered and the ancillary information with it this Thursday.


That's multiple nighttime infrared images of the Cydonia Mensae area and TRUE COLOR images of MARS, MULTIPLE areas where there are indications of LIFE, both intelligent and vegetable forms.


We'll see. But water on Mars? Where are those who pooh-poohed the idea before and railed against the images? Where are the die-hard CO2 fanatics now that the DATA is being recognized for what it always was, water?



So many more people would be able to THINK for themselves and come to their OWN intellectual conclusions if NASA/JPL and its 'principle investigators' were simply MORE honest and open with the data it is acquiring. To re-iterate an important and very pertinent and valid point, the Mars Odyssey spacecraft and the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft are NOT the private toys of these folks. There are OUR national assets, and on this Memorial Day Holiday, it is ever more poignant to remember what it has cost this country for that to be. Soldiers die for an HONEST government. Let us have it.


Let's taunt a Billionaire to Mars ! ! ! Beats Begging.

Think out there act down here... NOW ! ! ! Have YOU ??

Give a High School kid a reason to care...a spacewalk.
Teach 'em a lesson in teamwork.
Teach 'em a lesson in humanity.

Bob... ;-{)

http://members.tripod.com/rhw007/

http://communities.msn.com/JPLMarsExploration

#7 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Hey, hey, hey, wait up - Mars is not a country » 2002-05-23 19:51:59

Everyone has seemed to presume Mars is currently unoccupied territory and belongs to humanity.  We actually do not KNOW this.  Mainstream science may have it has the current paradigm, but recently in geological history the paradigm of the day was that humanity was:

1.

#8 Re: Water on Mars » NASA’s Martian Watershed - An honest look at where NASA and we are. » 2002-05-23 01:41:07

Thank you Adrian. I am new to this forum.  Hope to return often as I can, but time and other commitments ensare us all.  Thanx again. its nearly dawn I must sleep.

#9 Re: Water on Mars » NASA’s Martian Watershed - An honest look at where NASA and we are. » 2002-05-19 23:04:45

May 6, 2002

To Whom It May Concern:



NASA?s Martian Watershed

The news conference (lecture) by Dr. Roger Gibbs the new Project Manager for the Mars Odyssey Spacecraft touted by NASA here:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/events/lectures/may02.html

"...how Odyssey fits into the broader Mars Exploration Program objective to follow the water, seeking to determine if life ever arose on Mars. "

is actually the entire NASA Agency?s own ?watershed? for honest scientific integrity in fulfilling its chartered mandate to search for life elsewhere.  We sincerely disappointed Dr. Gibbs did not represent a significant change in the channel of static we have been getting from NASA/JPL about Mars and Cydonia.  While we have been ?following the water? since 1976, and even if some had to go ?kicking and screaming?:

http://www.space.com/science....22.html

http://www.space.com/science....28.html

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/97/mgsci.html

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nasa2.html

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/sci/fifthconf99/water.html

http://sse.jpl.nasa.gov/whatsnew/pr/000622C.html

in the last few years, we have all come to agree and know that Mars is actually much more wet than mainstream planetary scientists had originally thought.  Along with evidence of Martian LIFE being found in a Martian Meteorite and evidence conditions have been proved to be existent for that life to develop and exist today:

http://sse.jpl.nasa.gov/whatsnew/pr/001213B.html

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/sci/fifthconf99/bio.html

http://www.curiousnotions.com/mars/index.html

the issue of ?water? on Mars has long been a been there done that kind of thing if NASA/JPL would only LOOK at the images they have been releasing:

http://home.thirdage.com/Teaching/rhw007/M0901354.gif

http://www.geocities.com/rhw007_y/

There are LIQUID LAKES of the stuff laying there in the open, plain as day.  Water?we already KNOW its there, we also know that there once existed LIFE, and intelligent life which constructed highly geometric mega Pyramids on Mars that dwarf the GIZA Pyramids of Egypt and there is EVIDENCE of that also, again if NASA/JPL bother to even LOOK!

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/index.shtml

In Cydonia these enigmatic features are waiting for humanity to come look into the mirror that is Mars.

Recently, the National Research Council:
http://www4.nationalacademies.org/news.ns....ocument

Issued a warning that we should postpone human exploration of Mars.  To quote Mars Anomalist researcher Mac Tonnies:

?Anything a JPL Lander can do, an astronaut can do more quickly, more fastidiously, and more intelligently.?

From one of the above water links:
http://www.space.com/science....22.html

"This story, I don't believe, will be answered until someone goes with a pick and shovel to actually chip away at the landforms, Malin said.?

Using Dr. Mike Malin?s quoted comment is supremely appropriate to today?s questions concerning Mars.  We need humans there, we need to find out EVERYTHING in an honest and open manner about ALL the evidence of enigmatic features and aspects of Mars.  Because also as Dr. Edgett said ?It's not your mother's Mars,? anymore.

NASA in the past has promised members of Congress and the American people to study the enigmatic features in Cydonia.  To date there is no NASA public study other than tortured and fully debunked Jet Propulsion Laboratory Press Releases on comparisons to ?Middle Butte-Idaho? which fell on it?s own butte from a NASA engineer:

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/face/m … ebutte.htm

so they switched on the following image, in the following year 2002, to try ?Camel Humping?  the public and once more slither their way out of FACING the truth,

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/imperative30.html

but ended up only showing that their 2001 BUTTE image, was actually NOT presented honestly in a true orthorectified image:

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/stereo … esults.htm

Maybe JPL thought most Americans would ?believe? their own pseudoscience public relations propaganda AND their pseudoscience geometric orthorectified image of 2001 since a new study revealed most American People science illiterates:

http://www.cnn.com/2002....ex.html

and the fact that since its acquisition in April 8, 2001 the ancillary geometry data for that image, as of this posting, was released finally 13 months after acquisition under a 6 month only embargo contract. That?s another broken promise in addition to the one which promised prior notifications and immediate release to the internet.  Yet they withheld the image itself, not just the ancillary data, for 6 weeks to prepare the Middle Butte propaganda press release.  They also had violated that prior notice promise here:

http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/cydonia.html

on 5 other occasions previously we know about for the FACE alone, and for more than 100 other Cydonia images (we currently know about and were also withheld beyond the 6 month private embargo period on a PUBLIC asset) on the other features in and around Cydonia.  Yet with ALL those violations of that Cydonia promise, where are the NASA public studies on these issues?

No, NASA has produced NO public peer reviewed study on these highly artificially engineered geometric edifices that are placed in highly geometric places on the planet and in intelligent geometric relationships to each other.  Despite more than a quarter century from the first Viking images which were wrongly dismissed as shadowed trickery NASA has avoided an HONEST and public SCIENTIFIC study of these features. 

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/martianenigmas/

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/Archive....e.shtml

The only clear and unambiguous FACT from NASA/JPL is their own behavior to clearly and repeatedly avoiding having to take a public look at this extraordinary evidence and to perform an honest and public extraordinary investigation, as promised, of that evidence.  Simply put, to actually perform the HONEST public science following the scientific methodology of modern times as its mandated and amended charter directs it to do.

More broken promises and in light of the following, this behavior is no longer tolerable in a branch of our Federal Government which reflects on the entire country, and this Administration as a whole.  Because if ALL we are ever going to get about Cydonia on Mars is more and more of staying tuned to the same channel of lies and distorted data and illegally withheld data; as new NASA Administrator Sean O?Keefe has said, ?What?s the point??

Loss of the Mars Observer on August 22, 1993; the loss of the Mars Climate Orbiter and the loss of the Mars Polar Lander in 1999 ( all for various different reasons ) leaves serious holes in Mars Research capabilities and opportunities for the inclusion of public participation in this exciting discovery process.  The two currently working spacecraft, Mars Global Surveyor and the Mars Odyssey can successfully fill those holes, provided they are publicly used for such.  Simply honest public scientific investigation of these extraordinary pieces of evidence is owed to the American Taxpaying Public.  Not only to make up for the nearly 2 Billion in lost tax dollars, but to encourage and re-engage the public in scientific study of the mysteries of our Universe in an honest and open manner that is the hallmark of a FREE Democracy. 

Lately it seems the Russian space program has been more open and inclusive of the public than America?s NASA, and especially is pointed out by American Denis Tito?s trip to the ISS being fought tooth n nail by NASA here in the ?free democracy? of the USA.

The Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) has completed its primary and 2 extended mission phases of which we presently know about.  This spacecraft can, and should be, immediately tasked to cover the entire Cydonia area in 1.5 meter/pixel HighRes imaging with immediate and public release of that data.  The MGS, and its attendant camera (MOC) is NOT the private personal property of the Principle Investigator Dr. Mike Malin or his privately held company Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS).  This a NATIONAL asset paid for by the taxpayers. It BELONGS to the American People.period. 

To NOT task this spacecraft to fully and completely and publicly image Cydonia, now that it is free from its primary mission, is akin to saying it is Okey Dokey to let Enron tear out the guts of the White House and build President Bush an indoor baseball field to make up for the one they?ll be losing.  This spacecraft BELONGS to us, the American People, it is way past time it was returned to us.  The MGS and the Mars Odyssey spacecraft and its THEMIS camera system are National Assets that should be used to publicly fulfill NASA?s chartered mandate to search for evidence of LIFE off the Earth.  The enigmatic ruins laying there in plain view in Cydonia are those pieces of evidence for not only life but also intelligent life.

It is past time for NASA to FACE up to its responsibilities to the American People and to conduct a publicly open and honest extraordinary investigation into these extraordinary pieces of evidence that humanity may have never been alone.  We are owed that much for NASA to make the effort, and to make that effort in full public view sharing what we find with these National Assets as they are found in real-time.

To NOT do this means we have lost all trust in NASA itself to simply keep its word.  To say what it means, and mean what it says.  To keep the promises and policies it has made, and to NOT make promises and policy it has no intention of keeping by lying or misrepresenting itself to the American Public.  In these troubled days of peril, to loose trust in the honesty and integrity of our government puts us all in a greater peril than we can presently imagine.

I sincerely hope that Dr. Roger Gibbs and the Mars Odyssey team make some Cydonia revelations when this news conference is held Thursday May 9 and Friday May 10.  This time, RIGHT NOW, before the THEMIS camera system is INTENTIONALLY shut down later this year  in a pre-planed hiatus from image acquisition, is a PRIME time to combine the very BEST of both spacecraft capabilities to produce TRUE COLOR images of Cydonia as seen by the human eye, to do a FULL INFRARED and SPECTRAL analysis of this area and combining and coordination of it with 1.5m/p HIGH RES images from the MGS MOC to produce for the public a proud and honest scientific look in an open manner in a Free Democracy showing the world what Leadership is all about.

If not, then NASA is simply not being honest with us in keeping promises to the Congress and American People, but also not being honest in compliance with the cherished scientific methodology of finding out the brutal truth of a thing.  To do that, one must openly, publicly and thoroughly actually study that thing.  NASA has YET to do that with Cydonia.   They will also be doing deceased Dr. Carl Sagan?s memory a grace disservice in that his:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."  Quote also makes true that extraordinary evidence requires extraordinary investigation, and an extraordinary investigation requires an extraordinary review and discussion process that is publicly open and honest.  NASA has failed to do this in more than 25 years of peeking at Mars, loosing spacecraft, and now having TWO (2) working spacecraft, one of which (MGS) is actually free from its primary mission. NOT giving Cydonia a full and extraordinary investigation is a gross violation of their mandate and also a pirating of Treasured National Assets for the private and personal politics and preferences of a very very few individuals as opposed to the thousands and thousands of people who HAVE been emailing, postal mailing, calling, faxing, and personally visiting NASA/JPL, media and political representatives DEMANDING that this area of Mars be FINALLY and OPENLY and IMMEDIATELY dealt with in an honest manner with immediate posting of that data collection as it happens to the www.  Ultimately, we will settle for nothing less and the sooner NASA/JPL and the established mainstream realizes this, the quicker humanity can move on to personally visiting this mirror of humanity that has a constructed FACE staring back at us that is hauntingly familiar in our own morning mirrors.


Let's taunt a Billionaire to Mars ! ! ! Beats Begging.

Think out there act down here... NOW ! ! ! Have YOU ??

Give a High School kid a reason to care...a spacewalk.
Teach 'em a lesson in teamwork.
Teach 'em a lesson in humanity.

Bob... ;-{)

http://members.tripod.com/rhw007/

http://communities.msn.com/JPLMarsExploration

rhw007@twcny.rr.com


I respectfully request that you inquire into the above matters and to keep me informed of any answers that NASA/JPL or the Bush Administration should respond with.  Please send copies and notices of all correspondence to my home address above.

Thank you.


Post lecture and Q/A essay:

The Odyssey to Mars lecture presented by Dr. Roger Gibbs, Mars Odyssey Project Manager at the JPL auditorium on Thursday May 9, 2002 was a severe disappointment to this Mars enthusiast. Even having missed the first part of the lecture series and only able to tune in as it ended and opened up to the Questions & Answers (Q/A) period from the audience I certainly got a reading of the current new manager and the ?new? direction of the mission. My connection froze and the computer locked up when the white haired gentleman asked him about some squarish object in a previous infrared image right when the good Dr. was about to answer, so I didn?t get to hear his reply to that. I did hear some of his replies to other anomalous things and he was asked to make a ?take? on it but declined.

I also noticed his lack of understanding that the Odyssey THEMIS camera is entirely capable of, but more importantly is designed to acquire a full five spectrum visible light image AND a full nine band spectral infrared image AT THE SAME TIME speaks volumes about how ?in the loop? this particular previous assistant project manager may have been as compared to the present position he finds himself in as THE primary Project Manager for the Odyssey Mission. This is a very important and fundamental point that cannot be understated. If this gentlemen, who seemed generally honest, is a little at a loss as to specific capabilities of THEMIS image acquisition, transmission and storage of data; had been kept out of the inner loop previously for whatever ?political? reasons, it certainly PROVES the point that THAT particular practice is not in the mission?s best interests, nor in OUR best interests either. This gentleman should KNOW those specific capabilities, or at least have a copy of the PDF file here:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/pip/20 … y-PIP2.pdf

handy. He might have a hand out under the lectern where each instrument?s capabilities are tabulated for him. Might help him answer SOME of those perplexing questions from the audience. Which audience is ONLY going to get even more victorious and even more concentrated forever on Cydonia until NASA/JPL comes up with more than its continued inane and INCORRECT answers. The Cydonia Face is NOT the result of ?light and shadow trickery?, the THEMIS absolutely CAN acquire full visible and full infrared spectrum of Cydonia at the SAME time, and the ?calibration? period was finished a long long time ago for this THEMIS instrument.

It was one of the reasons the previous manager gave for delay of releasing images!!! What? You STILL haven?t ?calibrated? that thing for full true color images and full spectrum infrared? Which bands are you releasing each ?daily? image as being ?calibrated? and which bands remain ?un-calibrated? that you cannot release? I CAN tell you this dear Dr. Gibbs, we are most certainly NOT going to wait the next 10 years as you implied many times in your answers to the Q/A for this data. THAT is simply unacceptable. period AND exclamation point!

It is unfortunate he did not even know when the first scheduled REQUIRED by contract data dump from THEMIS would be due later this year. It?s August 19, 2002 btw for your information. The data for the ENTIRE mission from the THEMIS is due up to the 30th day from official Mission Mapping Start which was February 19, 2002. Month 2 + 6 month ?embargo? = month 8 August 19, 2002. These are things, as Mission Manager, is his job to see happen on time, and in compliance with contract and policy. I also believe it is his job as Mission Manager to have some oversight as to ?targets of opportunity? that are of great and important public interest, above and beyond primary mapping mission objectives. The Cydonia region is most definitively one of those areas where his office should have made assurances that the FULL capabilities of the entire Odyssey instruments, especially the THEMIS system, were brought to bear on that area on that flyover! As he pointed out, and as is reasonable, to have the spacecraft pull ROTO ( Roll Over Targeting Observations ) which bring the instrument off-nadir would be foolish and dangerous before the mission is complete. HOWEVER, this Cydonia image recently WAS a nadir acquired image and was therefore FULLY capable of full use of ALL the sensors of THEMIS in both infrared and visible systems. If this did not happen and only the one of 14 possible bands were read, then THAT was a gross mismanagement of spacecraft capabilities and an opportunity to show this country the scientific methodology of how TRUE SCIENCE is supposed to be done. We wonder why Americans are so science illiterate? Maybe its because some of our ?best? science seems to be a mite behind the 8 ball itself and a few bottles short of a six-pack?

Again, Dr. Gibbs seemed an honest gentleman placed in a situation answering specific technical questions that should have had the principle investigators on hand to answer. They were not, for whatever reasons. I think he did the best he could, but felt a mite nervous about it. I will grant that there was a true mystery they acknowledge as to major channels being dust free while other nearby channels were not and still covered in dust. Cause? Acknowledged as being there, true phenomenon, and absolutely real and undeniable but as to the cause it remains presently unknown. That tactic would work with ALL the information about Cydonia too, try it. Show us EVERYTHING you have about Cydonia tomorrow night at Pasadena City College.

It?s PAST time to let it all out, even if you cannot explain it. That?s what the rest of the team, us the American Public and the world in general, is for. For without the public, YOU have no team, we are as much a part of the exploration as a pad rat checking the area one last time before ignition of the rocket to send a probe on its way, a collective hand of humanity reaching out to take a tiny grasp at understanding the vastness and mystery of the Universe beyond our tiny blue ball called Earth. Share the results with the rest of the team out here on Cydonia, ALL of it. Because I, and the many thousands and thousands of us out here will NEVER let you forget sir, we are NOT going away, and we will NOT quit inquiring and holding you to give HONEST answers to this enigmatic area. Breathe-in, breathe-out, get used to it and simply comply and tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth because we CAN handle it.




Let's taunt a Billionaire to Mars ! ! ! Beats Begging.

Think out there act down here... NOW ! ! ! Have YOU ??

Give a High School kid a reason to care...a spacewalk.
Teach 'em a lesson in teamwork.
Teach 'em a lesson in humanity.

Bob... ;-{)

http://members.tripod.com/rhw007/

http://communities.msn.com/JPLMarsExploration

#10 Re: Water on Mars » Water ice on Mars. - Elaborate breakdown of the polar caps. » 2002-05-13 10:34:23

You know, there are LAKES OF LIQUID water on Mars if people, especially NASA/JPL would only look at their own images without a 'political' veil over their eyes.

M0901354.gif


If THAT ain't a lake, even if currently frozen, then someone is paving the sand over there. :0

For the raw data:

LIQUID LAKE raw data with geometric information

MORE LITTLE LAKES!!!

Let's taunt a Billionaire to Mars ! ! ! Beats Begging.

Think out there act down here... NOW ! ! ! Have YOU ??

Give a High School kid a reason to care...a spacewalk.
Teach 'em a lesson in teamwork.
Teach 'em a lesson in humanity.

Bob... ;-{)

http://members.tripod.com/rhw007/

http://communities.msn.com/JPLMarsExploration

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