What if we Lose III? - The thread that wouldn't die

clark · 2004-05-26 09:36:46

A neo con? Why not a mysoginist? Or a bitter crank? How about a flip-flopping moral relativist?

I'll be what ever you want me to be.

Yes! I'm not sorry my ancestors stole a whole continent. I'm not sorry they dropped two nukes. With power comes responsibility and it isn't easy. But I'm not sorry we have achieved it.

I'm not sorry either, don't get me wrong. I just wish we were a little better about it, that's all.

Cobra Commander · 2004-05-26 10:49:51

A neo con? Why not a mysoginist? Or a bitter crank? How about a flip-flopping moral relativist?
I'll be what ever you want me to be.

Ah, we can work with this type. Tomorrow the world!

I'm not sorry either, don't get me wrong. I just wish we were a little better about it, that's all.

Fair enough, we should always strive for improvement. But we should also remember that if other great powers improved... they'd be us.

Cobra Commander · 2004-05-26 12:12:17

Anyone else listening to the terrorism briefing on the radio? There's some serious proactive cover-ass going on... ???

Trebuchet · 2004-05-26 12:32:37

Yeah, after the nonsense last time they're wanting to tell everyone everything they know (or rather, to give that impression). Which likely will make actually catching the terrorists harder, but who cares as long as you get that pre-emptive strike against the lawyers!

Mundaka · 2004-05-26 13:23:56

Cobra Commander · 2004-05-26 13:51:56

If it doesn't happen, they will say, "See, the Patriot Act works! Give us your liberties!" If it does happen, they will say, "See, we told you so! We need more laws! Give us your liberties!"

I wish I could argue with this, but I can't.

And no frontier to escape to. This is gonna suck. :bars2:

Huh, US invading US ? Well....

The example was meant from the perspective of an third-world nation.

Bill White · 2004-05-26 14:04:18

Here is a novel idea to fight for Arab hearts and minds:

Because Al Hurra and Radio Sawa have relatively small audiences, officials recognize the imperative of getting American views onto mainstream Arabic news outlets. But putting Americans on Arabic television will not be easy. The State Department has a tiny number of spokesmen capable of debating in Arabic on fast-paced, high-pressure talk shows.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120922,00.html]Link

How can we win hearts and minds if we do not get our advocates onto al Jazeera versions of Chris Matthews and Larry King?

And if our guys don't speak Arabic fluently anyone who does go on Arabic TV will look like a doofus as the native speakers run linguistic circles around our guys.

clark · 2004-05-26 14:37:48

Yesterday I heard on a radio show that 10 to 15 percent of Americans can't find America on a map. What do these people do to support themselves --- guard airports?

Run for Congress. Or lead the country in an ill fated war with no end and no clear plan for success. You know, some of our legistlaors actually brag about not having a passport.

Ah, we can work with this type. Tomorrow the world!

Let me see if I can work with you. [Ahem] "NARF!"

I've suspected for some time that Clark harbors a secret crush on our fairest debater -- now I'm sure of it.

You're not the first. :laugh: If it makes more sense to you, more power to you. But the real truth is Mundaka, I have a secret crush on you... oh damn, that was a secret. Well, since the cat is out of the bag, what are your measurments?

How can we win hearts and minds if we do not get our advocates onto al Jazeera versions of Chris Matthews and Larry King?

I don't think we can win their hearts and minds anymore (if we ever could). Basic social interaction rules would dictate that since we sit in a position of power, but wish to influence those with less of the same type of power, our interests would be served by giving in to most (if not all) of their demands. Just because we act weak, dosent mean we are weak. Just a thought.

clark · 2004-05-26 15:09:26

I told you the frogs know they're the center of the universe, right? Well, I didn't realize just how far this actually goes with them. You see, they now know that the universe is shaped like their landmarks too!

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/sto … ]Physicist: Cosmos Is Shaped Like the Eiffel Tower

BERLIN (Reuters) - The universe looks like the Eiffel Tower topped with a never-ending spire, a German physicist said Wednesday.
Researchers in Ulm, birthplace of Albert Einstein, have developed a model of the universe as an elongated triangle like the Paris landmark, but with a spire going on and on.

:laugh:

Cobra Commander · 2004-05-26 17:13:57

Ja, sure. Which one did you ask ?! Cause i'm sure you don't live in any, you never did and you never will. So what you say it's really not an objective opinion.

Based on that logic only Americans can complain about Americans and none of us can talk about the Iraq war because we aren't there.

Or we can examine past history and infer from it. The record shows the US to have been far more honorable in most circumstances than other great powers in similar situations. Yes, there are numerous exceptions, but given the number of opportunities for conquest, exploitation and general mayhem the restraint is astounding.

clark · 2004-05-26 17:25:55

here, here cobra.

As long as we keep the war mongering fascists in a minority, we'll be doin fine.

But you keep jumping for that brass ring.

Mundaka · 2004-05-26 17:32:17

Mundaka · 2004-05-26 17:51:34

Mundaka · 2004-05-26 18:43:45

Bill White · 2004-05-26 20:18:00

Interesting http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=2662]PsyOps link:

Years ago, my father, David Lind, whose career was in advertising, said, "If the day World War II ended, Stalin had sent all his German prisoners home, giving them a big box of food for their families and a wallet full of Reichsmarks, the Communists would have taken all of Western Europe." He may have been right.

And another quote:

In Fallujah, the Marines just showed a brilliant appreciation of psyops in 4GW. How? They let the Iraqis win.

At the tactical level, the Marines probably could have taken Fallujah, although the result would have been a strategic disaster. Instead, by pulling back and letting the Iraqis claim victory, they gave Iraqi forces of order inside the city the self-respect they needed to work with us. Washington and the CPA seem to define "liberation" as beating the Iraqis to a pulp, then handing them their "freedom" like a gift from a master to a slave. In societies where honor, dignity and manliness are still important virtues, that can never work. But "losing to win" sometimes can.

Here is the conclusion:

Some of our psyops people probably understand all of this. Unfortunately, the people above them, in Iraq and in Washington, appear to grasp none of it. The end result is that, regardless of who wins the firefights, our enemies win one psychological victory after another. In a type of war where the moral and mental levels far outweigh the physical level, it is not hard to see where that road ends.

Bill White · 2004-05-26 20:21:54

You're not the first. :laugh: If it makes more sense to you, more power to you. But the real truth is Mundaka, I have a secret crush on you... oh damn, that was a secret. Well, since the cat is out of the bag, what are your measurments?
Oh. My. God.
EDIT: I...ah...well...ah...er...I...you...um...you win. Check. Mate. Resign. Fold. Point. Set. Match. 20,000/Love -- er, I mean . . . I'm going to Mars.
Edit again: Ok, I'm off the floor now -- clark, I sh*t you not, when I read that I laughed so hard that I literally went over backwards in my chair, flat on my back, still laughing -- hysterical. Touche!
On the off chance you're serious, I'm afraid I'm both accounted for and hetero, but as the old joke goes, "Even if you don't want to go to the party, its always nice to be invited." :laugh:
Talk about blindsided . . .

On a lighter note, I have heard that clark often gets sent repair invoices for computer keyboards ruined by coffee or soda being rapidly ejected through the nose and mouth.

clark · 2004-05-26 20:26:11

Mundaka, you're not invited to the party, you are the party. :;):

I take those charges as a tax ride off, so it's all good.

But don't worry, I'm spoken for. :laugh:

DonPanic · 2004-05-27 02:17:11

LO

Huh, US invading US ? Well....
The example was meant from the perspective of an third-world nation.

You could refer to the perspective of the South invaded by Yankees, for instance.

I told you the frogs know they're the center of the universe, right? Well, I didn't realize just how far this actually goes with them. You see, they now know that the universe is shaped like their landmarks too!

If you give me a paper and a pencil, and memory sketch, sure I will draw a France centered map of the world, but unlike many american students who will just draw a coast to coast map, mine will be quite correct depicting the whole world.
We know that center of Europe has moved to Germany, and, by the way, our way of life is somehow closer to NY's one than to Varsaw's. We actualy have the same gay marriage debates as you.

In Fallujah, the Marines just showed a brilliant appreciation of psyops in 4GW. How? They let the Iraqis win.
At the tactical level, the Marines probably could have taken Fallujah, although the result would have been a strategic disaster. Instead, by pulling back and letting the Iraqis claim victory, they gave Iraqi forces of order inside the city the self-respect they needed to work with us. Washington and the CPA seem to define "liberation" as beating the Iraqis to a pulp, then handing them their "freedom" like a gift from a master to a slave. In societies where honor, dignity and manliness are still important virtues, that can never work. But "losing to win" sometimes can.

Discovering ancient precepts of chinese strategic books ?
"Never totally surround your ennemies, they will figth like tigers,
let them an escape door, they will disband"
"If you have a total win, give back an inch of your gains,
you will get PEACE only if your ennemy can claim for a victory"

Bill White · 2004-05-27 07:16:46

Discovering ancient precepts of chinese strategic books ?
"Never totally surround your ennemies, they will figth like tigers,
let them an escape door, they will disband"
"If you have a total win, give back an inch of your gains,
you will get PEACE only if your ennemy can claim for a victory"

Our generals know these books, very well indeed.

It is the civilian bosses in Washington who think reading old books is a waste of time.

<sigh>

= = =

It know looks like the brokered deal with the Sunnis in Fallajuh coincided with the decision to cut our ties with Chalabi.

Chalabi was furious that we did not level Fallajuh.

Palomar · 2004-05-27 08:33:26

Bushs]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&e=1&u=/afp/20040527/pl_afp/iraq_us_prison_pentagon_040527133734]Bushs]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&e=1&u=/afp/20040527/pl_afp/iraq_us_prison_pentagon_040527133734]Bushs]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&e=1&u=/afp/20040527/pl_afp/iraq_us_prison_pentagon_040527133734]Bush's surprise announcement

*I'd say this is a positive idea with a "Bastille-like" flair.

--Cindy

Bill White · 2004-05-27 10:58:23

That does it DomPanic! Enough is enough!

If the friggin' EU intends to eradicate http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffa … .html]junk food - - this means war!

Call for EU-wide junk food ban!

clark · 2004-05-27 11:03:51

Bill, Taco Bell will win.

Bill White · 2004-05-27 11:07:58

Bill, Taco Bell will win.

What was that Sly Stallone movie about the frozen cop and President Arnold?

All restaurants were Taco Bell.

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Re: What if we Lose III? - The thread that wouldn't die

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