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#1 2026-04-23 17:15:21

RobertDyck
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Large Ship Life Support

My idea for life support for the large ship. This includes a lot of sophisticated stuff that only works on a large ship, it would be too bulky for a Mars Direct habitat, and certainly too bulky for a capsule.

  • regenerable sorbent for CO₂ removal

  • chloroplast oxygen generator: CO₂ + H₂O → O₂ + carbohydrate. Use leaves of a pea plant for source of chloroplasts, so carbohydrate will be starch.

  • toilet will have separate urine collection tube. Built-in bidet for feces.

  • initial processing in cabin washroom/restroom. Filter urine to remove most water, but not all water. Vacuum desiccate feces.

  • shower will have water recycling built-in. Waste water down drain goes to cyclonic water separation, similar to cyclonic vacuum cleaner. Then water is filtered. Result is 70% of water down the drain comes out the shower head. Reduces water consumption and energy to heat water. Just don't piss in the shower.

  • each pressure compartment will include several staterooms. Current design: 8 staterooms on forward side, 8 on aft side. Each compartment further filters water to produce potable water. And storage of water for drinking, bathroom sink, toilet flush & bidet, and shower. Compartments can exchange water, but under emergency conditions a compartment can be isolated.

  • desiccated feces ground to powder, transported by pressurized air and augur to a storage compartment. Compartment can be detached, transported to Mars surface for use as fertilizer in a greenhouse.

Note: processing human feces requires composting to decompose feces to become suitable compost for a vegetable garden. Any potential diseases must be destroyed before using in a garden. Length of time to process feces greater than the 6 month trip from Earth to Mars.

Advanced life support:

  • electrolysis tank with semipermeable membrane to process urine. Concentrated urine on one side, clean water on the other. Anode (positive electrode) in urine. Cathode (negative electrode) in water. Chlorine gas bubbles off anode, filtered to remove bad smells. Filter will have to be back-flushed periodically with clean water, back into urine side of tank. Hydrogen gas bubbles off cathode. Sodium, potassium, and calcium will pass through semipermeable membrane into water. This turns the water into hydroxide (alkali). The hydroxide separated by further electrolysis tanks to isolate sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and calcium hydroxide.

  • Hydrogen and chlorine gas can be bubbled through sodium hydroxide under pressure to form pH neutral salt water. That water can then be placed in a low pressure tank and boiled to concentrate salt, then crystallize salt. This produces table salt for eating and cooking.

  • Alternatively, CO₂ can be bubbled through sodium hydroxide to form baking soda.

  • potassium hydroxide can be added to vegetable oil to make liquid soap. Several forms of liquid soap: hand soap, shampoo, clothes washing soap, dish washing liquid (hand washing), and dishwasher soap. Note: automatic dishwasher requires less suds.

  • remaining urine further processed to extract phosphate. Not all phosphate removed, just when phosphate is needed. Calcium hydroxide added to increase urine pH to 12, causing calcium-phosphate to precipitate out.

  • phosphate further processed to diammonium-phosphate, aka yeast nutrient.

  • urine then broken down with bacteria, to break down organic compounds into suitable fertilizer for hydroponics.
    ------

  • starch transported by tube from cabins to central life support as paste.

  • starch fed to mould to produce amylase. Amylase harvested and purified.

  • starch with more water added to produce cloudy liquid. Amylase added to break down starch into dextrose sugar.

  • sugar/water fed to another microbe to produce oil. Technically microbial oil, but used as vegetable oil. Use for cooking and soap (see above)

  • sugar/water fed to yet another microbe, this one genetically modified to produce bread proteins. Mix with starch to produce synthetic flour. All purpose flour is 10-12% protein, bread flour 12-16%, cake flour 7-9%.

  • sugar/water fed to yet another microbe, also to produce bread proteins, but this one with proteins for semolina flour. Suitable for pasta.
    ------

  • bar has vats to produce alcoholic beverages. Concentrated grape juice for home wine kit used to make wine. Use recycled water, dextrose sugar and yeast nutrient from above.

  • "dregs" from vats of red wine processed to make cream of tartar. This only works with red wine; not with white wine or beer.

  • cream of tartar mixed with baking soda and starch to make baking powder.

  • bar also has vats for beer, made with malt from Earth. 1.7kg malt + recycled water + dextrose sugar + yeast → 23 litres of beer.

  • bar ferments sugar + water + yeast nutrient + distiller's yeast, distill → vodka

  • bar can also ferment sugar + molasses + water + distiller's yeast, distill → white rum

  • whisky must be aged, so not produced on ship. What little whisky is available must be shipped from Earth.

  • sugar + molasses → golden yellow sugar aka light brown sugar. Add more molasses for brown sugar aka dark brown sugar. More molasses yet for demerara style brown sugar.

  • mix 250ml (1 cup) hot water, 500ml (2 cups) packed golden yellow sugar, 1 teaspoon (5ml) imitation maple extract → 500ml (2 cups) pancake syrup

Note: Molasses shipped from Earth or Mars.
Imitation maple extract made by soaking fenugreek seeds in vodka for 3 months. Filter, then add vanilla extract.
Vanilla extract made on Earth from chemicals, but easiest way to make on Mars is to grow actual vanilla bean in a greenhouse. Soak chopped vanilla bean in vodka for 3 months, then filter.
All this takes months, so not done on the Large Ship. Both extracts brought as supplies.

Greenhouse on Large Ship will include aquaponics: hydroponics + aquaculture. Grow plants with water/fertilizer sprayed on roots. Water drips down, collected, pumped back to be sprayed on roots again. Parts of plants that humans do not eat fed to fish: stems, leaves, roots. Fish poop used as fertilizer for hydroponics. Tilapia fish grow well in crowded conditions, and are vegetarian (not carnivorous). Fish heads, skin, scales, fins, bones, used as fertilizer for hydroponics.

Fish can be cooked, or served as sushi/sashimi.

Greenhouse will provide fresh vegetables for a salad bar on the ship. Pancakes, waffles, bread, pasta made on the ship. However, entrees and rice must be shipped.

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#2 2026-04-23 17:43:19

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 25,920

Re: Large Ship Life Support

This post is reserved for an index to the topic.

This topic certainly has potential for significant growth over future years.

Index:
Post #3: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 77#p238977
RobertDyck introduces Juniper bushes and selected citrus plants.
Post #4: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 88#p238988
RobertDyck introduces oil for cooking and human consumption.
Post #5: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=238989#p238989'
Gemini evaluates transfats and offers options for growing oil on a large ship
Post #6: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 90#p238990
RobertDyck discusses 24 month flight and food production if docking at Mars fails
Post #7: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 91#p238991
RobertDyck on Vegan Chicken Nuggets

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2026-04-25 06:18:32)

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#3 2026-04-24 15:08:40

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

Decorative plants grown in pots on the observation deck will include jumper. That is a low-growing shrub, with separate male and female plants. The female plants produce berries. Juniper berries are infused into vodka to make gin. Various other botanicals are added to gin for various different brands/flavours. Those other ingredients can also be grown in pots on the observation deck. Juniper berries can only be harvested once per year.

The observation deck can also grow a dwarf orange tree such as Calamondin orange can be grown in a large pot. The fruit is small and tart, but rich in vitamin C. This particular variety is a hybrid of mandarin and kumquat.

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#4 2026-04-24 17:57:04

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

Margarine: trans-fats have become politically unpopular. However, the large ship won't have space to grow oil palm trees. And certainly won't have ability to raise dairy cattle for butter. One way to make margarine is to hydrogenate vegetable oil. Bubble hydrogen gas through liquid oil at 180°C to 200°C over a nickel catalyst.

LibreTexts Chemistry: Hydrogenation of Oils

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#5 2026-04-24 19:59:56

tahanson43206
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

In response to Post #4, I asked SpaceNut's favorite AI (CoPilot) to consider the question.  It developed a set of interesting looking alternatives, while also explaining why transfats must be avoided at all costs.

Margarine and transfats and alternatives - Hello Again!  Thanks for your help with previous requests. Please hold off on generating a question until I provide the background. This opening query is intended to give you a sense of what we will be thinking about.
Got it — I’ll hold off on generating a follow‑up question and simply acknowledge the direction you’re heading.
***
You’re setting the stage for a deeper dive into margarine, trans fats, and healthier alternatives, and I’m ready to explore that with you whenever you’re ready to lay out the background. This is a rich topic with a lot of nuance — chemistry, nutrition science, food policy, and even a bit of history — so there’s plenty of room to build something thoughtful and useful.

Whenever you’re ready, go ahead and share the background you mentioned.
***
I am delighted to be back in communication with you.  We are members of a (small) International forum dedicated to spaceflight and Mars in particular. The individual who created the post I will quote has been thinking about a large space craft to shuttle between Earth and Mars.  At the moment, he is thinking about provision of fresh food for passengers and crew.  He opens with an opinion about margarine. I'm hoping you can fill in details about how margarine is made, what transfats are and why they are unhealthy for humans, and most importantly, how healthy oils might be produced in a large space vessel.  We are talking about a complement of 1000 persons, so this is not something limited by ISS or other examples. Here is the quotation:
Margarine: trans-fats have become politically unpopular. However, the large ship won't have space to grow oil palm trees. And certainly won't have ability to raise dairy cattle for butter. One way to make margarine is to hydrogenate vegetable oil. Bubble hydrogen gas through liquid oil at 180°C to 200°C over a nickel catalyst.

LibreTexts Chemistry: Hydrogenation of Oils
***
Here’s a deep, structured, non‑technical but scientifically accurate overview you can take back to your spaceflight forum. I’ll cover:

How margarine is actually made

What trans fats are and why they’re harmful

What a 1,000‑person interplanetary ship could realistically do to produce healthy fats/oils

Which alternatives to margarine make sense in space

? 1. How Margarine Is Made (and why trans fats appear)
The classical method: partial hydrogenation
Historically, margarine was made by hydrogenating vegetable oils:

Start with a liquid oil (soy, canola, sunflower, etc.).

Heat it to ~180–200°C.

Bubble hydrogen gas through it.

Use a nickel catalyst to help hydrogen atoms add to carbon–carbon double bonds.

Why hydrogenate at all?
Vegetable oils are liquid because they contain unsaturated fatty acids (double bonds). Hydrogenation:

Saturates some of those double bonds → makes the fat more solid at room temperature.

Improves shelf life (saturated fats oxidize more slowly).

Improves texture (spreadable, creamy).

Where trans fats come from
Partial hydrogenation doesn’t fully saturate the fat. Instead, it often rearranges double bonds from cis to trans configuration.

C is fat: bent shape → stays liquid.

Trans fat: straightens out → behaves like saturated fat.

These trans fats are the harmful ones.

⚠️ 2. Why Trans Fats Are Unhealthy
Trans fats are one of the few nutrients where the evidence is overwhelming and consistent.

What they do in the body
Raise LDL (“bad”) cholesterol

Lower HDL (“good”) cholesterol

Increase inflammation

Increase insulin resistance

Promote atherosclerosis

Health outcomes
Higher risk of heart attacks and strokes

Higher risk of type 2 diabetes

Possible links to cognitive decline and infertility

Because of this, many countries have banned industrial trans fats. The WHO has called for global elimination.

? 3. How to Produce Healthy Fats on a Large Spacecraft
A 1,000‑person interplanetary ship is essentially a closed ecological system. You need a renewable, high‑yield, low‑mass source of fats.

Here are the realistic options:

Option A — Microalgae bioreactors (the most promising)
This is the gold standard for space‑based lipid production.

Why algae?
Extremely high oil yield: up to 30–60% of biomass as lipids.

Grows in water, not soil.

Can use CO₂ from crew respiration.

Can be grown in stacked photobioreactors with LED lighting.

Can be genetically tuned to produce specific fatty acid profiles (e.g., high‑oleic oils, omega‑3 DHA/EPA).

Output
Oils similar to canola, sunflower, or even fish oil depending on strain.

Biomass can also be used as protein source (like spirulina).

Engineering needs
Transparent bioreactors with LED lighting

CO₂ capture from life‑support

Nutrient recycling (nitrogen, phosphorus)

Continuous harvesting + oil extraction (centrifuges, presses)

Pros
Most mass‑efficient fat source

Closed-loop compatible

Can be automated

Produces oxygen as a bonus

Cons
Requires biotech expertise

Needs careful contamination control

Requires energy for lighting and pumping

Option B — Oilseed crops in hydroponics (moderately feasible)
Plants like:

Canola / rapeseed

Sunflower

Soybean

Peanuts

Flax / chia (for omega‑3)

Pros
Familiar, safe, stable

Seeds store well

Can be integrated with other food production

Cons
Low oil yield per m² compared to algae

Requires large growing area

More water and nutrient demand

More labor

For a 1,000‑person ship, you’d need thousands of square meters of hydroponic area to produce enough oil for daily cooking.

Option C — In‑situ synthesis of fats from CO₂ + H₂ (Sabatier + microbial oil)
This is the most futuristic but extremely promising.

How it works
Use Sabatier reaction (CO₂ + H₂ → CH₄ + H₂O) to generate methane and water.

Feed methane to methanotrophic bacteria or engineered microbes.

These microbes convert methane into lipids (up to 70% of their mass).

Extract the lipids → refine into cooking oil or margarine.

Pros
Uses waste CO₂ and hydrogen (which you already produce for fuel cells or propulsion).

Very high yield per volume.

Works without sunlight.

Cons
Requires advanced bioreactors

Needs careful biocontainment

More complex than algae

This is the approach NASA and ESA are actively researching for long‑duration missions.

Option D — Insect farming (for fats + protein)
Insects like black soldier fly larvae or mealworms can convert plant waste into:

High‑fat biomass (30–40% fat)

High‑protein meal

Fertilizer for hydroponics

The fat can be extracted and used like lard or tallow.

Pros
Very efficient feed conversion

Works with food scraps

Provides both protein and fat

Cons
Cultural acceptance issues

Requires careful containment

Fat profile is more saturated (like animal fat)

? 4. Making Margarine Without Trans Fats (Space Edition)
Modern margarine is not made with partial hydrogenation anymore.

Current Earth method: Interesterification
Mix fully saturated fats (e.g., palm stearin, coconut oil, or hydrogenated fats with complete saturation)

Blend with liquid oils

Use enzymes to rearrange fatty acids without creating trans fats

Add emulsifiers + water + flavor

In space, you could do the same:
Use algal oil (liquid)

Blend with fully saturated fats from:

Hydrogenated algal oil (fully hydrogenated = no trans fats)

Insect fat

Cocoa butter analogs from engineered yeast

Result:
A trans‑fat‑free margarine with controlled texture, made entirely onboard.

? 5. Practical Recommendation for a 1,000‑Person Mars Ship
Best primary fat source: Algal photobioreactors
Highest yield per m²

Integrates with life‑support

Produces oxygen + recycles CO₂

Can be tuned to produce healthy fats (oleic, DHA, EPA)

Secondary sources
Insect bioconversion for saturated fats + protein

Hydroponic oilseeds for variety and redundancy

Microbial oil synthesis as a long‑term advanced option

Food products you can make onboard
Margarine (trans‑fat‑free)

Cooking oils (olive‑like, canola‑like, algae‑based)

Nut‑butter analogs (from peanuts, soy, or insect meal)

High‑fat algae‑based spreads (already exist on Earth)
***
If you want, I can also help you with:
Designing a closed‑loop food production system for a 1,000‑person ship

Estimating square meters of hydroponics needed for oils, carbs, protein

Modeling oxygen/CO₂ balance with algae + crew

Creating a margarine recipe suitable for space manufacturing

Comparing butter vs margarine vs ghee for space use

Writing a forum post summarizing all this in a more conversational style

Just tell me what direction you want to go next.

(th)

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#6 2026-04-24 21:15:10

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

One consideration, why so much recycling. Obvious is to reduce mass that must be transported into space. But the greater consideration is emergency preparation. A Hohmann transfer orbit is the most fuel efficient. At least for traditional rockets with high thrust, short duration, and coast most of the way. A Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars takes about 8.5 months. An express trajectory takes 6 months, which has several advantages for a mission with humans onboard. Less food and life support supplies. Less exposure to radiation and risk of micrometeoroids. For a mission without artificial gravity, less exposure to zero-G, because zero-G has documented detrimental effects to human health. The large ship will use rotation for artificial gravity. But 6 months is also the specific trajectory for a free-return. If something goes wrong, gravity of Mars can change the trajectory for a return to Earth. For Apollo 13, the spacecraft went around the far side of the Moon, performing a U-turn to return back to Earth. For a Mars mission, it will make a sharp turn around the far side of Mars, but not a U-turn. It won't head back where it came from, instead head to where Earth will be when the spacecraft gets there. Remember Earth and Mars are both orbiting the Sun. The outbound trip will be 6 months. If everything works perfectly, the ship will remain in Mars orbit until the planets align for a return trip. Then a 6 month return back to Earth. However, in case of a free-return, the planets will not be aligned for an optimal trip. Expect free return will require 18 months from Mars back to Earth. This is after a 6 month trip from Earth, and if a free return is necessary, the ship will not stop in Mars orbit. That means total of 24 months from Earth back to Earth. The ship will only carry sufficient food to feed the passengers and crew for 6 months, with a tiny little bit left over. So how do you feed everyone during the 18 month return?

Left over food will have to be rationed. But long before arriving back at Earth, all left over supplies will be exhausted. For breakfast: cereal, eggs, bacon, milk, orange juice, and even coffee will all be gone. There will be batter and the type of waffle maker and pancake maker in the self-serve breakfast area of a hotel. This is one reason for wanting to make margarine on the ship. Will there be enough molasses and imitation maple extract to make pancake syrup to last?

The ship is designed to use solar power. Chloroplast oxygen generators use sunlight directly, reflected by a mirror through a window into the ship. The window coated in a spectrally selective coating to block UV light. Electricity by solar panels. Recycle oxygen and water without dumping anything overboard, to reduce losses to practically zero. (almost zero) Recycle oxygen, recycle water. Produce soap onboard for hand washing, showers, laundry, dishes, etc. Specifically use soap compatible with hydroponics.

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#7 2026-04-24 21:37:52

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

I found recipes for vegan chicken nuggets. They're made from "vital wheat gluten". It's mostly gluten, but actually all the wheat proteins. Since microbes on the ship will produce wheat proteins for artificial flour, just don't mix starch and use the protein for nuggets. Or shape into patty for a chicken patty. Place between two slices of bread for a chicken sandwich. Possibly with margarine.

The recipes do have a problem: they require either chickpeas or tofu. Oil will be produced, as will salt. Garlic and onion powder may be something the ship carries, but could be grown in hydroponics. Poultry seasoning is a mix of sage, rosemary, ground black pepper, and marjoram, but could be skipped. Recipe below talks about a vegan substitute for chicken broth, but the broth could just be skipped. But chickpeas or tofu? Hmm.
The Hidden Veggies: Seitan Chicken Nuggets

Perhaps under emergency conditions, if a free return is necessary, one of the observation decks will have be configured as additional hydroponics. Grow chickpeas.

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#8 2026-09-10 15:23:12

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

I mentioned phosphate "processed" to form diammonium phosphate. That's formed simply by adding phosphate dissolved in water, with ammonia dissolved in water. The result can be turned to a powder by boiling in reduced pressure (partial vacuum) to reduce boiling temperature.

Paper from Science Direct: Phosphorus harvesting from fresh human urine: A strategy of precisely recovering high-purity calcium phosphate and insights into the precipitation conversion mechanism

Calcium phosphate can be reacted with hydrochloric acid:
Ca₃(PO₄)₂ + 6HCl → 3CaCl₂ + 2H₃PO₄

Hydrogen and chlorine gas are result of electrolysis of salts. Bubble both hydrogen and chlorine gas through clean water to form hydrochloric acid.

Urine can be aerated to mix oxygen. Oxygen reacts with urea in urine to form CO₂ and ammonia.
CO(NH₂)₂ + H₂O → CO₂ + 2[NH₄]⁺
Note oxygen is not consumed, but is required for the reaction. Ammonia gas is NH₃ but dissolved in water it forms ammonium [NH₄]⁺.
And if you really want to get picky, a second water molecule reacts with CO₂ to form carbonic acid: H₂CO₃
Balancing charges: water is an equilibrium between molecular water (H₂O) and ionic (H⁺ + OH⁻). Each ammonium will form an ionic bond with hydroxyl (OH⁻). This results in off-gassing hydrogen ions (H⁺) which react with oxygen from the air, resulting in water vapour.
The point is liquid urine with water can be aerated, resulting in off-gassing ammonia gas (NH₃). That ammonia can be captured. Can ammonia gas be filtered to remove urea, uric acid, and creatinine?

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#9 2026-09-10 15:53:52

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

A recipe that does not include beans.
Easy Seitan Nuggets

Instagram: Seitan Nuggets

Seitan Nuggets

Serves 2

~62–64g protein | ~565–635 kcal per portion (depending on cooking method)

Ingredients

For the seitan
150g vital wheat gluten (you can also make this with regular bread flour and some additional steps that I’ve not written here but can be found online)
1½ tbsp nutritional yeast
¾ tsp garlic powder
¾ tsp onion powder
½ tsp smoked paprika
½ tsp black pepper
½ tsp fine salt
225ml vegetable stock
1½ tbsp soy sauce
1 tbsp olive oil

For coating
60g plain flour
15g cornflour
¾ tsp smoked paprika
¾ tsp garlic powder
½ tsp fine salt
½ tsp baking powder
Plant milk or beaten egg, for coating

Oil for frying or baking

Method

Mix the dough | Add the vital wheat gluten, nutritional yeast, garlic powder, onion powder, smoked paprika, black pepper and salt to a large bowl | Stir to combine | Pour in the vegetable stock, soy sauce and olive oil | Mix until a shaggy dough forms

Knead briefly | Turn out onto a clean surface and knead for 60-90 seconds until smooth and elastic | Do not over-knead

Rest | Return to the bowl, cover and rest for 10 minutes to relax the gluten

Shape | Tear into rough, bite-sized chunks rather than cutting this gives more texture and crisp edges later

Simmer | Heat a pot of lightly salted water to a boil, add in the seitan and allow to simmer very gently for 35 minutes until set, stirring occasionally | Drain and allow to cool completely

Dredge | Mix the plain flour, cornflour, smoked paprika, garlic powder and salt in a bowl | Dip each piece of seitan into plant milk or beaten egg, then into the flour mixture, pressing to coat well | Dust off excess flour

Cook | Fry in oil at 180°C until deeply golden and crisp | Alternatively bake at 220°C with an even drizzle or spray of oil for 18-22 minutes, turning halfway

This is important because the Large Ship will have some space, but not enough for a large farm. I described how to make flour (plain flour) without growing wheat. The coating would have to be made without corn flour. Microbial oil could be substituted for olive oil. The one beaten egg can be replaced with a tablespoon of starch and a tablespoon of water.

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#10 2026-09-10 15:58:04

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

Basic Vegetable Broth

Ingredients

  • 1 tablespoon olive oil

  • 5 cloves garlic, minced

  • 2 large onions, chopped

  • 3 ribs celery, chopped

  • 3 carrots, chopped

  • 8 cups water

  • Frozen vegetable scraps (2-3 cups is a good amount)

  • 2 bay leaves

  • A few sprigs of parsley and thyme

  • Salt and pepper to taste (omit these if you're making stock)

Instructions
Heat the olive oil in a large Dutch oven or stockpot over medium heat. Add the garlic, onions, celery, and carrots. Cook until softened, about 5 minutes, stirring often. Add the water, frozen vegetable scraps, bay leaves, parsley, and thyme. Reduce heat to low and simmer, partially covered, for 45 minutes. Pour the broth through a fine mesh strainer into a large heat-proof bowl or pot; discard solids. One the broth has cooled, transfer it to airtight plastic containers or freezer bags and store it in the freezer. (I usually freeze it in 2-cup portions so I don't have to thaw all the broth every time I use it.)

For the ship, I believe we can simply skip the bay leaves, parsley and thyme.

Vegetable scraps: onion skins, garlic skins, onion ends, carrot peels, mushroom stems, celery ends, etc. Broccoli stems are debated; one source says they turn the stock bitter.

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#11 2026-09-10 16:19:35

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

I have a package wrapper for Yves brand veggie ground round. Ingredients: water, soy protein product, onions, natural flavours, canola oil, salt, guar gum, evaporated cane syrup, malt extract, caramel (colour), spices, yeast extract, vitamins and minerals, wheat starch.

So where's a question: could we use seitan (wheat protein) instead of soy protein? Could we skip guar gum, use dextrose instead of evaporated cane syrup. Skip malt extract. Use chloroplast starch instead of wheat starch. Would this be good enough? Could we use this as veggie ground round for spaghetti sauce? The sauce would add tomato sauce, which is just tomatoes, skinned, crushed, cooked, with some spices.

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#12 2026-09-11 20:00:14

RobertDyck
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

I've said this before, but it bears repeating. The Large Ship will carry food for all passengers and crew for the 6 month journey from Earth to Mars. Normally, the ship will enter Mars orbit. When the planets are aligned for return, the return back to Earth will also be 6 months. Before leaving, the ship will restock supplies from greenhouse farms on Mars.

However, a 6 month journey is the exact trajectory for a free return. Apollo used a free return trajectory. If anything serious went wrong, it wouldn't enter Lunar orbit, instead the gravity of the Moon would cause the Apollo spacecraft to loop around the far side of the Moon, then return back to Earth. In the case of Mars, it will not make a U-turn, because Earth and Mars orbit the Sun. Instead the spacecraft will use the gravity of Mars to make a turn to enter a trajectory that will take the ship back to Earth. Not where Earth was when the ship departed, but where Earth will be when the ship gets there. Although the outbound journey will be 6 months, a free return trajectory will be 18 months. That means from Earth back to Earth, total journey will be 24 months. Without any resupply. So what will feed passengers and crew?

The ship is sealed, and oxygen recycling deliberately uses a method that does not require dumping toxic gasses overboard. This drastically reduces pressure loss. So pressure will never run out.

The ship uses solar panels for electricity, so electricity will never run out. Heating and air conditioning (cooling) are powered by electricity, so they will never run out. Water is recycled, urine is recycled to recover water. Condensate from cabin dehumidifiers are also filtered, added to the water supply. So water will never run out. I mentioned how soap will be made on the ship, so soap will never run out. The ship will have servers with movies, TV shows, books (Kindle, PDF), and game servers. The ship will remain in communication with Earth, but if that communication gets damaged, there will be a lot stored on the ship to entertain passengers. So the question is what will they eat?

Chloroplast oxygen generators produce starch as a byproduct. That starch can be heated in a microwave oven to help break down the molecules, then add traditional bread yeast, and a pinch of yeast nutrient. Let it ferment for 3 days. The result can be cooked in a microwave oven again. Result is a white pudding with some lumps, with flavour and aroma of freshly baked bread. The yeast adds a little protein and vitamin B, but not B12. The starch remains mostly starch, so mostly carbohydrate. Not the best food, but will keep you alive. Expect passengers and crew will get tired of the white starch pudding very quickly.

This detailed system provides a lot more. Provided any emergency doesn't destroy advanced life support. Due to recycling, there is an unlimited supply of: starch, sugar, salt, baking soda, vegetable oil (actually microbial oil), bread, buns (a shape of bread), pasta in any shape, pancakes, waffles, simple syrup (maple flavour pancake syrup will run out), tomatoes, carrots, salad, a small selection of fresh vegetables, tilapia fish (cooked and sushi), white vinegar, seitan nuggets (vegan chicken nuggets), vegan chicken sandwich, vegan chicken burger, spaghetti with meat sauce (actually vegan seitan with tomato sauce), spaghetti with meat balls (again actually seitan balls).

Under emergency conditions the passengers will still eat very well. Not the variety they may want. Rice will be stored dry, not produced on the ship. So when rice runs out, sashimi will be available, but maki rolls will not. Potatoes will be dried potato flakes (Idahoan instant mashed potatoes), not raw potatoes. And fries will be frozen. Since fries cannot be dried, there will be few fries onboard. Fries will definitely run out before a free return even begins.

Ingredients to make booze will run out. Vodka will be unlimited, made from recycled ingredients, but all other forms of booze rely on stored ingredients. The ship will grow ingredients for gin, but juniper berries require 2 years to mature. However, berries can be staggered so multiple harvests per year are possible from one plant. There won't be a lot of gin. And whisky requires at least 6 years aging in oak casks, so cannot be made at all on the ship. The only whisky will be stored, brought from Earth.

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#13 2026-09-12 16:29:33

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
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Re: Large Ship Life Support

We could add dumpling soup.
All recipes: Homemade Dumplings

Ingredients
Original recipe (1X) yields 6 servings

  • 1 cup all-purpose flour

  • 2 teaspoons baking powder

  • 1 teaspoon white sugar

  • ½ teaspoon salt

  • 1 tablespoon butter or margarine

  • ½ cup milk

Whole milk helps create a smooth, moist dough.

We could skip the milk if not available.

The Kitchn (yes, spelled that way): Easy Dumpling Soup

Ingredients

  • 2 tablespoons toasted sesame oil

  • 4 medium scallions, thinly sliced (about 1/2 cup)

  • 4 cloves garlic, minced

  • 1 tablespoon peeled and minced ginger (from a 1-inch piece)

  • 1/2 teaspoon kosher salt, plus more as needed

  • 6 cups low-sodium chicken or vegetable broth

  • 3 tablespoons soy sauce or tamari

  • 16 to 18 ounces frozen dumplings, wontons, or potstickers (do not thaw)

  • 3 ounces baby spinach (about 3 packed cups)

  • 1 cup shredded carrots

We can use vegetable oil (microbial oil) instead of sesame oil. Loses the flavour, but you make do with what you have.
Obviously salt does not have to be "kosher". Vegetable broth is vegetable broth (don't add salt). Soy sauce will have to be brought from Earth.

And another example why margarine is important. Post #4 discusses margarine.

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