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My idea for life support for the large ship. This includes a lot of sophisticated stuff that only works on a large ship, it would be too bulky for a Mars Direct habitat, and certainly too bulky for a capsule.
regenerable sorbent for CO₂ removal
chloroplast oxygen generator: CO₂ + H₂O → O₂ + carbohydrate. Use leaves of a pea plant for source of chloroplasts, so carbohydrate will be starch.
toilet will have separate urine collection tube. Built-in bidet for feces.
initial processing in cabin washroom/restroom. Filter urine to remove most water, but not all water. Vacuum desiccate feces.
shower will have water recycling built-in. Waste water down drain goes to cyclonic water separation, similar to cyclonic vacuum cleaner. Then water is filtered. Result is 70% of water down the drain comes out the shower head. Reduces water consumption and energy to heat water. Just don't piss in the shower.
each pressure compartment will include several staterooms. Current design: 8 staterooms on forward side, 8 on aft side. Each compartment further filters water to produce potable water. And storage of water for drinking, bathroom sink, toilet flush & bidet, and shower. Compartments can exchange water, but under emergency conditions a compartment can be isolated.
desiccated feces ground to powder, transported by pressurized air and augur to a storage compartment. Compartment can be detached, transported to Mars surface for use as fertilizer in a greenhouse.
Note: processing human feces requires composting to decompose feces to become suitable compost for a vegetable garden. Any potential diseases must be destroyed before using in a garden. Length of time to process feces greater than the 6 month trip from Earth to Mars.
Advanced life support:
electrolysis tank with semipermeable membrane to process urine. Concentrated urine on one side, clean water on the other. Anode (positive electrode) in urine. Cathode (negative electrode) in water. Chlorine gas bubbles off anode, filtered to remove bad smells. Filter will have to be back-flushed periodically with clean water, back into urine side of tank. Hydrogen gas bubbles off cathode. Sodium, potassium, and calcium will pass through semipermeable membrane into water. This turns the water into hydroxide (alkali). The hydroxide separated by further electrolysis tanks to isolate sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and calcium hydroxide.
Hydrogen and chlorine gas can be bubbled through sodium hydroxide under pressure to form pH neutral salt water. That water can then be placed in a low pressure tank and boiled to concentrate salt, then crystallize salt. This produces table salt for eating and cooking.
Alternatively, CO₂ can be bubbled through sodium hydroxide to form baking soda.
potassium hydroxide can be added to vegetable oil to make liquid soap. Several forms of liquid soap: hand soap, shampoo, clothes washing soap, dish washing liquid (hand washing), and dishwasher soap. Note: automatic dishwasher requires less suds.
remaining urine further processed to extract phosphate. Not all phosphate removed, just when phosphate is needed. Calcium hydroxide added to increase urine pH to 12, causing calcium-phosphate to precipitate out.
phosphate further processed to diammonium-phosphate, aka yeast nutrient.
urine then broken down with bacteria, to break down organic compounds into suitable fertilizer for hydroponics.
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starch transported by tube from cabins to central life support as paste.
starch fed to mould to produce amylase. Amylase harvested and purified.
starch with more water added to produce cloudy liquid. Amylase added to break down starch into dextrose sugar.
sugar/water fed to another microbe to produce oil. Technically microbial oil, but used as vegetable oil. Use for cooking and soap (see above)
sugar/water fed to yet another microbe, this one genetically modified to produce bread proteins. Mix with starch to produce synthetic flour. All purpose flour is 10-12% protein, bread flour 12-16%, cake flour 7-9%.
sugar/water fed to yet another microbe, also to produce bread proteins, but this one with proteins for semolina flour. Suitable for pasta.
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bar has vats to produce alcoholic beverages. Concentrated grape juice for home wine kit used to make wine. Use recycled water, dextrose sugar and yeast nutrient from above.
"dregs" from vats of red wine processed to make cream of tartar. This only works with red wine; not with white wine or beer.
cream of tartar mixed with baking soda and starch to make baking powder.
bar also has vats for beer, made with malt from Earth. 1.7kg malt + recycled water + dextrose sugar + yeast → 23 litres of beer.
bar ferments sugar + water + yeast nutrient + distiller's yeast, distill → vodka
bar can also ferment sugar + molasses + water + distiller's yeast, distill → white rum
whisky must be aged, so not produced on ship. What little whisky is available must be shipped from Earth.
sugar + molasses → golden yellow sugar aka light brown sugar. Add more molasses for brown sugar aka dark brown sugar. More molasses yet for demerara style brown sugar.
mix 250ml (1 cup) hot water, 500ml (2 cups) packed golden yellow sugar, 1 teaspoon (5ml) imitation maple extract → 500ml (2 cups) pancake syrup
Note: Molasses shipped from Earth or Mars.
Imitation maple extract made by soaking fenugreek seeds in vodka for 3 months. Filter, then add vanilla extract.
Vanilla extract made on Earth from chemicals, but easiest way to make on Mars is to grow actual vanilla bean in a greenhouse. Soak chopped vanilla bean in vodka for 3 months, then filter.
All this takes months, so not done on the Large Ship. Both extracts brought as supplies.
Greenhouse on Large Ship will include aquaponics: hydroponics + aquaculture. Grow plants with water/fertilizer sprayed on roots. Water drips down, collected, pumped back to be sprayed on roots again. Parts of plants that humans do not eat fed to fish: stems, leaves, roots. Fish poop used as fertilizer for hydroponics. Tilapia fish grow well in crowded conditions, and are vegetarian (not carnivorous). Fish heads, skin, scales, fins, bones, used as fertilizer for hydroponics.
Fish can be cooked, or served as sushi/sashimi.
Greenhouse will provide fresh vegetables for a salad bar on the ship. Pancakes, waffles, bread, pasta made on the ship. However, entrees and rice must be shipped.
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This post is reserved for an index to the topic.
This topic certainly has potential for significant growth over future years.
Index:
Post #3: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 77#p238977
RobertDyck introduces Juniper bushes and selected citrus plants.
Post #4: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 88#p238988
RobertDyck introduces oil for cooking and human consumption.
Post #5: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=238989#p238989'
Gemini evaluates transfats and offers options for growing oil on a large ship
Post #6: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 90#p238990
RobertDyck discusses 24 month flight and food production if docking at Mars fails
Post #7: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 91#p238991
RobertDyck on Vegan Chicken Nuggets
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2026-04-25 06:18:32)
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Decorative plants grown in pots on the observation deck will include jumper. That is a low-growing shrub, with separate male and female plants. The female plants produce berries. Juniper berries are infused into vodka to make gin. Various other botanicals are added to gin for various different brands/flavours. Those other ingredients can also be grown in pots on the observation deck. Juniper berries can only be harvested once per year.
The observation deck can also grow a dwarf orange tree such as Calamondin orange can be grown in a large pot. The fruit is small and tart, but rich in vitamin C. This particular variety is a hybrid of mandarin and kumquat.
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Margarine: trans-fats have become politically unpopular. However, the large ship won't have space to grow oil palm trees. And certainly won't have ability to raise dairy cattle for butter. One way to make margarine is to hydrogenate vegetable oil. Bubble hydrogen gas through liquid oil at 180°C to 200°C over a nickel catalyst.
LibreTexts Chemistry: Hydrogenation of Oils
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In response to Post #4, I asked SpaceNut's favorite AI (CoPilot) to consider the question. It developed a set of interesting looking alternatives, while also explaining why transfats must be avoided at all costs.
Margarine and transfats and alternatives - Hello Again! Thanks for your help with previous requests. Please hold off on generating a question until I provide the background. This opening query is intended to give you a sense of what we will be thinking about.
Got it — I’ll hold off on generating a follow‑up question and simply acknowledge the direction you’re heading.
***
You’re setting the stage for a deeper dive into margarine, trans fats, and healthier alternatives, and I’m ready to explore that with you whenever you’re ready to lay out the background. This is a rich topic with a lot of nuance — chemistry, nutrition science, food policy, and even a bit of history — so there’s plenty of room to build something thoughtful and useful.Whenever you’re ready, go ahead and share the background you mentioned.
***
I am delighted to be back in communication with you. We are members of a (small) International forum dedicated to spaceflight and Mars in particular. The individual who created the post I will quote has been thinking about a large space craft to shuttle between Earth and Mars. At the moment, he is thinking about provision of fresh food for passengers and crew. He opens with an opinion about margarine. I'm hoping you can fill in details about how margarine is made, what transfats are and why they are unhealthy for humans, and most importantly, how healthy oils might be produced in a large space vessel. We are talking about a complement of 1000 persons, so this is not something limited by ISS or other examples. Here is the quotation:
Margarine: trans-fats have become politically unpopular. However, the large ship won't have space to grow oil palm trees. And certainly won't have ability to raise dairy cattle for butter. One way to make margarine is to hydrogenate vegetable oil. Bubble hydrogen gas through liquid oil at 180°C to 200°C over a nickel catalyst.LibreTexts Chemistry: Hydrogenation of Oils
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Here’s a deep, structured, non‑technical but scientifically accurate overview you can take back to your spaceflight forum. I’ll cover:How margarine is actually made
What trans fats are and why they’re harmful
What a 1,000‑person interplanetary ship could realistically do to produce healthy fats/oils
Which alternatives to margarine make sense in space
? 1. How Margarine Is Made (and why trans fats appear)
The classical method: partial hydrogenation
Historically, margarine was made by hydrogenating vegetable oils:Start with a liquid oil (soy, canola, sunflower, etc.).
Heat it to ~180–200°C.
Bubble hydrogen gas through it.
Use a nickel catalyst to help hydrogen atoms add to carbon–carbon double bonds.
Why hydrogenate at all?
Vegetable oils are liquid because they contain unsaturated fatty acids (double bonds). Hydrogenation:Saturates some of those double bonds → makes the fat more solid at room temperature.
Improves shelf life (saturated fats oxidize more slowly).
Improves texture (spreadable, creamy).
Where trans fats come from
Partial hydrogenation doesn’t fully saturate the fat. Instead, it often rearranges double bonds from cis to trans configuration.C is fat: bent shape → stays liquid.
Trans fat: straightens out → behaves like saturated fat.
These trans fats are the harmful ones.
⚠️ 2. Why Trans Fats Are Unhealthy
Trans fats are one of the few nutrients where the evidence is overwhelming and consistent.What they do in the body
Raise LDL (“bad”) cholesterolLower HDL (“good”) cholesterol
Increase inflammation
Increase insulin resistance
Promote atherosclerosis
Health outcomes
Higher risk of heart attacks and strokesHigher risk of type 2 diabetes
Possible links to cognitive decline and infertility
Because of this, many countries have banned industrial trans fats. The WHO has called for global elimination.
? 3. How to Produce Healthy Fats on a Large Spacecraft
A 1,000‑person interplanetary ship is essentially a closed ecological system. You need a renewable, high‑yield, low‑mass source of fats.Here are the realistic options:
Option A — Microalgae bioreactors (the most promising)
This is the gold standard for space‑based lipid production.Why algae?
Extremely high oil yield: up to 30–60% of biomass as lipids.Grows in water, not soil.
Can use CO₂ from crew respiration.
Can be grown in stacked photobioreactors with LED lighting.
Can be genetically tuned to produce specific fatty acid profiles (e.g., high‑oleic oils, omega‑3 DHA/EPA).
Output
Oils similar to canola, sunflower, or even fish oil depending on strain.Biomass can also be used as protein source (like spirulina).
Engineering needs
Transparent bioreactors with LED lightingCO₂ capture from life‑support
Nutrient recycling (nitrogen, phosphorus)
Continuous harvesting + oil extraction (centrifuges, presses)
Pros
Most mass‑efficient fat sourceClosed-loop compatible
Can be automated
Produces oxygen as a bonus
Cons
Requires biotech expertiseNeeds careful contamination control
Requires energy for lighting and pumping
Option B — Oilseed crops in hydroponics (moderately feasible)
Plants like:Canola / rapeseed
Sunflower
Soybean
Peanuts
Flax / chia (for omega‑3)
Pros
Familiar, safe, stableSeeds store well
Can be integrated with other food production
Cons
Low oil yield per m² compared to algaeRequires large growing area
More water and nutrient demand
More labor
For a 1,000‑person ship, you’d need thousands of square meters of hydroponic area to produce enough oil for daily cooking.
Option C — In‑situ synthesis of fats from CO₂ + H₂ (Sabatier + microbial oil)
This is the most futuristic but extremely promising.How it works
Use Sabatier reaction (CO₂ + H₂ → CH₄ + H₂O) to generate methane and water.Feed methane to methanotrophic bacteria or engineered microbes.
These microbes convert methane into lipids (up to 70% of their mass).
Extract the lipids → refine into cooking oil or margarine.
Pros
Uses waste CO₂ and hydrogen (which you already produce for fuel cells or propulsion).Very high yield per volume.
Works without sunlight.
Cons
Requires advanced bioreactorsNeeds careful biocontainment
More complex than algae
This is the approach NASA and ESA are actively researching for long‑duration missions.
Option D — Insect farming (for fats + protein)
Insects like black soldier fly larvae or mealworms can convert plant waste into:High‑fat biomass (30–40% fat)
High‑protein meal
Fertilizer for hydroponics
The fat can be extracted and used like lard or tallow.
Pros
Very efficient feed conversionWorks with food scraps
Provides both protein and fat
Cons
Cultural acceptance issuesRequires careful containment
Fat profile is more saturated (like animal fat)
? 4. Making Margarine Without Trans Fats (Space Edition)
Modern margarine is not made with partial hydrogenation anymore.Current Earth method: Interesterification
Mix fully saturated fats (e.g., palm stearin, coconut oil, or hydrogenated fats with complete saturation)Blend with liquid oils
Use enzymes to rearrange fatty acids without creating trans fats
Add emulsifiers + water + flavor
In space, you could do the same:
Use algal oil (liquid)Blend with fully saturated fats from:
Hydrogenated algal oil (fully hydrogenated = no trans fats)
Insect fat
Cocoa butter analogs from engineered yeast
Result:
A trans‑fat‑free margarine with controlled texture, made entirely onboard.? 5. Practical Recommendation for a 1,000‑Person Mars Ship
Best primary fat source: Algal photobioreactors
Highest yield per m²Integrates with life‑support
Produces oxygen + recycles CO₂
Can be tuned to produce healthy fats (oleic, DHA, EPA)
Secondary sources
Insect bioconversion for saturated fats + proteinHydroponic oilseeds for variety and redundancy
Microbial oil synthesis as a long‑term advanced option
Food products you can make onboard
Margarine (trans‑fat‑free)Cooking oils (olive‑like, canola‑like, algae‑based)
Nut‑butter analogs (from peanuts, soy, or insect meal)
High‑fat algae‑based spreads (already exist on Earth)
***
If you want, I can also help you with:
Designing a closed‑loop food production system for a 1,000‑person shipEstimating square meters of hydroponics needed for oils, carbs, protein
Modeling oxygen/CO₂ balance with algae + crew
Creating a margarine recipe suitable for space manufacturing
Comparing butter vs margarine vs ghee for space use
Writing a forum post summarizing all this in a more conversational style
Just tell me what direction you want to go next.
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One consideration, why so much recycling. Obvious is to reduce mass that must be transported into space. But the greater consideration is emergency preparation. A Hohmann transfer orbit is the most fuel efficient. At least for traditional rockets with high thrust, short duration, and coast most of the way. A Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars takes about 8.5 months. An express trajectory takes 6 months, which has several advantages for a mission with humans onboard. Less food and life support supplies. Less exposure to radiation and risk of micrometeoroids. For a mission without artificial gravity, less exposure to zero-G, because zero-G has documented detrimental effects to human health. The large ship will use rotation for artificial gravity. But 6 months is also the specific trajectory for a free-return. If something goes wrong, gravity of Mars can change the trajectory for a return to Earth. For Apollo 13, the spacecraft went around the far side of the Moon, performing a U-turn to return back to Earth. For a Mars mission, it will make a sharp turn around the far side of Mars, but not a U-turn. It won't head back where it came from, instead head to where Earth will be when the spacecraft gets there. Remember Earth and Mars are both orbiting the Sun. The outbound trip will be 6 months. If everything works perfectly, the ship will remain in Mars orbit until the planets align for a return trip. Then a 6 month return back to Earth. However, in case of a free-return, the planets will not be aligned for an optimal trip. Expect free return will require 18 months from Mars back to Earth. This is after a 6 month trip from Earth, and if a free return is necessary, the ship will not stop in Mars orbit. That means total of 24 months from Earth back to Earth. The ship will only carry sufficient food to feed the passengers and crew for 6 months, with a tiny little bit left over. So how do you feed everyone during the 18 month return?
Left over food will have to be rationed. But long before arriving back at Earth, all left over supplies will be exhausted. For breakfast: cereal, eggs, bacon, milk, orange juice, and even coffee will all be gone. There will be batter and the type of waffle maker and pancake maker in the self-serve breakfast area of a hotel. This is one reason for wanting to make margarine on the ship. Will there be enough molasses and imitation maple extract to make pancake syrup to last?
The ship is designed to use solar power. Chloroplast oxygen generators use sunlight directly, reflected by a mirror through a window into the ship. The window coated in a spectrally selective coating to block UV light. Electricity by solar panels. Recycle oxygen and water without dumping anything overboard, to reduce losses to practically zero. (almost zero) Recycle oxygen, recycle water. Produce soap onboard for hand washing, showers, laundry, dishes, etc. Specifically use soap compatible with hydroponics.
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I found recipes for vegan chicken nuggets. They're made from "vital wheat gluten". It's mostly gluten, but actually all the wheat proteins. Since microbes on the ship will produce wheat proteins for artificial flour, just don't mix starch and use the protein for nuggets. Or shape into patty for a chicken patty. Place between two slices of bread for a chicken sandwich. Possibly with margarine.
The recipes do have a problem: they require either chickpeas or tofu. Oil will be produced, as will salt. Garlic and onion powder may be something the ship carries, but could be grown in hydroponics. Poultry seasoning is a mix of sage, rosemary, ground black pepper, and marjoram, but could be skipped. Recipe below talks about a vegan substitute for chicken broth, but the broth could just be skipped. But chickpeas or tofu? Hmm.
The Hidden Veggies: Seitan Chicken Nuggets
Perhaps under emergency conditions, if a free return is necessary, one of the observation decks will have be configured as additional hydroponics. Grow chickpeas.
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