Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

Void · 2024-08-27 10:32:03

I ran into a few articles today:

Not Thermal Battery:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU16iUYKPr4
Quote:

Texas Oil Wells Hold a Renewable Energy Solution | American Innovators

Thermal Battery:
https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/scienti … y-storage/
Quote:

Researchers Successfully Turn Abandoned Oil Well into Giant Geothermal Battery

Thermal Battery:
https://e360.yale.edu/features/kern-cou … gy-storage
Quote:

Can a California Oilfield Be Retrofitted to Store Solar Energy?
The transition to renewables requires batteries that can store energy for long periods of time. To meet that demand, engineers in California’s Kern County are aiming to revamp depleted oil wells to hold concentrated solar energy in super-heated water underground.
By Stephen Robert Miller • May 23, 2024

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-27 10:36:21)

Void · 2024-10-02 06:48:51

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technol … r-AA1rymdX
Quote:

Company announces achievements in development of seemingly unlimited underground power source: 'The most productive enhanced geothermal system in history'
Story by Jeremiah Budin • 12h • 2 min read

Geothermal could be of use on Mars as well.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-10-02 06:51:24)

Void · 2024-12-10 09:10:21

Sage Geothermal looks interesting: https://www.sagegeosystems.com/

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=WRVORC Quote:

New Generation Geothermal: The Future of Energy with Sage Geosystems’ Cindy Taff
YouTube
Forging the Future with Chris Howard
5 days ago

Their methods are a bit different. They apparently inflate a well like a lung, usually cycling about 20% of the liquid with each inflation/deflation.

-They say that for the actual geothermal they can put heat in, and expect then to get out 2 times as much energy.

-They also seem to have a method to tap the water flow itself at a 70% round trip efficiency.

So, then seem to intend to store solar and wind energy. But they are not necessarily only about thermal storage, but as I have said they seem to indicate that they can also get actual geothermal energy out as well.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-12-10 09:14:52)

Void · 2024-12-21 11:03:51

Here is another claim: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/i … b6e2627&ei
Quote:

t’s Fracking Marvelous: Geothermal Set To Become Miracle New Energy Source
Story by Douglas McIntyre • 3d • 2 min read

So, I know that there are haters here for alternative energy. But I anticipate improvements if function of Solar, Wind, and Batteries. And geothermal might be able to substitute for Natural Gas Peaker plants I think.

I don't have much problem with responsible nuclear, but politics are real. Some things just can't happen because powerful entities will not let them happen.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-12-21 11:06:59)

Void · 2025-03-01 11:38:39

This is rather nice in being detailed more than any other related article I have seen: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … RM=VRDGARs Quote:

Geothermal Energy is Changing
YouTube
Real Engineering
22.3K views
1 hour ago

It is about Quaise Energy, with a special drilling method. It does not seem overly optimistic or pessimistic, so then explains to some degree the extent of the problems of the task.

https://www.quaise.energy/

So, I think it is worth watching the video.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-03-01 11:44:47)

Void · 2025-03-02 12:08:41

This is encouraging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOIlMdIqXbQ
Quote:

I Was Wrong About Geothermal Energy.
Sabine Hossenfelder

Just for fun, I have been thinking about geothermal on Saturn's moon Titan.
It turns out that there may be a crust of Methane Clathrates that may insulate the underlying materials.

https://www.space.com/saturn-titan-methane-ice-life
Quote:

Scientists have discovered that the icy shell of Saturn's largest moon, Titan, could possess an insulated, six-mile-thick (9.7-kilometer-thick) layer of methane ice beneath its surface. Ironically, this layer may make signs of life from the subsurface ocean of Titan easier to detect. And, down the line, the discovery could benefit the fight against human-driven climate change on Earth.

So, drilling below that might yield a "Warmer" layer. If a hydrocarbon or other gas could be used, then perhaps a large energy source would be available. This might greatly improve the habitability of Titan by humans and robots.

If the dunes of Titan are actually comet dust, then the building materials desired would be common on Titan as well. The materials probably needed in order to do geothermal on Titan, I presume.

https://phys.org/news/2024-04-titan-dunes-comet.html
Quote:

April 18, 2024
Editors' notes
Are Titan's dunes made of comet dust?
by Allen Versfeld, Universe Today

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-03-02 12:24:23)

Void · 2025-05-01 11:13:07

I think this is of interest, as it contains some specs to observe to understand what it can do, apparently.
https://interestingengineering.com/ener … mal-energy
Quote:

Swiss firm develops autonomous drill machine to tap shallow geothermal energy
Developed by the Zurich-based startup Borobotics and nicknamed ‘Grabowski’, the drill measures only 5.3 inches in diameter and 9 feet in length.
Updated: Jan 19, 2025 07:39 AM EST
Photo of the Author Christopher McFadden
Christopher McFadden

Quote:

However, despite its clear advantages, the drill is not without drawbacks. The first and most critical is that it tends to be slower than conventional drills. Additionally, it can only drill up to a maximum depth of 1,640 feet (500 meters).

This has both an Earth and Mars interest, I think.

For Earth, it is my feeling that if you decentralize power, that advantages the kind of culture I prefer. Solar is potentially decentralized, and this looks like it could be as well. If used with a heat pump, then in the summer, as you cool your house, you lay up neat for the winter, and in the winter, of course you lay up cooling for the summer.

I think that in generally for the "American Ways", (Maybe other similar countries as well, maybe Canada), we want a certain amount of individuality and a certain amount of hiving, or collective process. Of course by collective I am not talking commies, rather large utilities. But that is the point, commies and fascists, adore collective centralization as then they can threaten to cut off utilities, or slowly drain the wealth from individuals to support inefficiency at the central controls.

For Mars, it appears that the weight of the drill system may be compatible with shipping them from Earth and getting a desired result on Mars. It is a potential way to turn "Dumb Rock" into machinery, with a minimum of consumption of high-quality processed materials.

From a Solar point of view, you could draw "Dumb Heat" from the sun, using a heat pump, as long as the sun caused solar panels to generate electricity. The electricity and heat are almost simultaneous.

So the best heat pump I am aware of from Norway can get up to 180 degrees C, which on Mars could be valuable indeed: https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/08/19/ … heat-pump/
Quote:

The world’s hottest heat pump
A Norwegian consortium has built an industrial heat pump that can reach a temperature of up to 180 degrees Celsius. The machine can be used with different industrial processes that rely on steam as an energy carrier and can reduce a facility’s energy consumption by between 40% and 70%, as it enables the recovery of low-temperature waste heat.
August 19, 2021 Emiliano Bellini

Those temperatures are considered good enough for some industrial processes, and some heat storage in rocks, near that temperature would likely be a welcome emergency source of heat during problem events, even perhaps Global Dust Storms, or high latitude winters.

And perhaps a similar system could be able to store cold. Mars is very generous with cold.

A hot and a cold unit each potentially could generate power.

Eavors system might be adapted to this situation, I think: https://www.eralberta.ca/story/first-of … oad-power/ Quote:

Eavor Technologies Inc. has developed the world’s first closed-loop geothermal system. In a demonstration project near Rocky Mountain House, Alberta, the Eavor-Lite facility uses existing oil and gas drilling technology and expertise to facilitate the development of an innovative energy supply.
The technology—dubbed the Eavor-Loop™—circulates a proprietary fluid that collects heat from below the earth’s surface in a multi-kilometre loop. Demonstration at this scale will provide the validation needed to de-risk identified commercial opportunities in Canada and around the world.

So, an adaptation of their technology along with the Swiss drill, might be able to be created on Mars, where the things Mars has to offer can become an advantage.

1) Lots of rock.
2) Fluctuating temperatures/Solar Energy.

And if you had nuclear, power similar applies, as you would have backup energy if the nuclear plant needed maintenance/repairs.

But even if you had nuclear, and no solar electric these drilled networks could make a good radiator system/ Storage of heat. And you could still pull heat out of simple thermal solar panels, perhaps using a heat pump method.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-01 11:39:17)

Void · 2025-05-01 11:55:26

This post is dependent on the just prior post as it is for the Moon, where the prior was for Earth and Mars.

The drill system would likely have to be revised to use CO2 as the working fluid instead of water. If that is possible then for the Moon, there could be some promise.

The Moon is rock with extreme temperature variation as common to much of the surface.

I expect that under the loose regolith, the rock may be less fractured. It would be needed to have a method to plug the fractures that may exist.

As for CO2 on the Moon, I have suggested various methods to make it more economical to have and use on the Moon.

Here are some suggestions in another topic: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 18#p231318 https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 55#p231355

Some of the earlier posts in that topic may have more materials.

Anyway, as I see it, Carbon for the Moon has two concerns: 1) How much does it cost to get it to the Moon? 2) What is it worth on the Moon?

If the worth of Carbon is high, then it may be worth getting from Earth to the Moon or from another source to the Moon.

Looking at the Equator of the Moon as an example, it should be possible to get very high heat into CO2 to store in a rock reservoir drilled by the device shown in the prior post.

As for the cooling side, the Moon offers lots of resources to make heat exchangers with. Using a sun shade cold should be possible even in the day, and of course the night will offer very deep cold.

So, then you might be able to create a "Battery" that can generate electricity 24/7. In great part made of rock.

Ending Pending

Of course, some day Mercury. Mercury already has lots of Carbon on it's surface.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-01 12:08:32)

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#401 2024-08-27 10:32:03

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

#402 2024-10-02 06:48:51

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

#403 2024-12-10 09:10:21

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

#404 2024-12-21 11:03:51

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

#405 2025-03-01 11:38:39

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

#406 2025-03-02 12:08:41

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

#407 2025-05-01 11:13:07

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

#408 2025-05-01 11:55:26

Re: Geothermal and Geothermal Battery (Changed Title 12/21/23)

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