Education

Calliban · 2023-08-23 22:26:58

Comment from Our Finite World thread.

***********************************************
Nearly all ethnic groups in Britain do better at school than white British. They are about 38% of schoolkids now, and it is good to see them doing well. EU kids in Britain do about the same as white British.

See the results table as an image: https://i0.wp.com/revisesociology.com/w … vement.png

Average Attainment 8 score (out of 90.0) by ethnicity

All 50.9
Asian 55.8
Bangladeshi 55.6
Indian 62.0
Pakistani 50.5
Asian other 58.6
Black 50.0
Black African 52.2
Black Caribbean 44.0
Black other 48.3
Chinese 69.2
Mixed 51.3
Mixed White/Asian 56.2
Mixed White/Black African 50.6
Mixed White/Black Caribbean 45.0
Mixed other 53.0
White 50.2
White British 50.2
White Irish 55.7
Gypsy/Roma 22.7
Irish Traveller 30.7
White other 52.1
Other 51.7
Unknown 45.1

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.ser … -ethnicity
***************************************

The secondary school I went to in the 1990s was a Comprehensive and close to 100% white, mostly working class. There was a clear division of attitude between the middle and working class students. Most of the working class students had a poor work ethic. They did not seem to plan for the future and most made no effort with school work at all. There was a deep cultural attitude against academic achievement and students that did well were ostracised. The prevailing attitude was that it was ‘cool to know nothing’ and make no visible effort at all.

Looking back at my school days now, I find it nothing short of miraculous that I managed to complete A-Levels and go on to take an engineering degree at a good university. That set me apart from most other working class students. Looking back at the situation, I do wonder what could have been done to help my classmates. They were by no means stupid. They just weren’t at all interested in learning. For some reason, they either didn’t consider the education offered to them to be relevant or didn’t plan for the future.

tahanson43206 · 2023-08-24 06:23:33

For Calliban re new topic...

Best wishes for success with this important new topic.

It is of universal importance. When communities set up shop on Mars, there won't be the luxury of unproductive community members.

It seems possible to me that the quality of teaching may be a factor to be considered, as this topic develops.

Specifically, given the attitude described by Calliban in Post #1, can a student who lacks a desire to learn achieve at a higher level with the right teacher?

Even more specifically .... Philip of Macedon arranged for his son Alexander to receive tutoring by Aristotle, who is associated with Plato and Socrates.

If every student had a tutor of that magnitude, would their performance improve? I don't know, but sure would like to see what might have been learned by humans on this important subject over the millennia.

Alexander the Great and Aristotle: A Philosophical Teacher
totallyhistory.com › alexander-the-great-and-aristotle
Aristotle had written two books on both subjects, and his ideas must have fueled Alexander's decisions later in life. The teacher not only urged the student to ...

Philip II of Macedon was the king of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia from 359 BC until his death in 336 BC. He was a member of the Argead dynasty, founders of the ancient kingdom, and the father of Alexander the Great. Wikipedia

For Calliban re topic ...

Could there be a genetic component to the results you have observed?

For great stretches of time, the ability to perform at a minimal level was sufficient to insure the success of a group, because much of the labor needed for survival would be done by machines today. The families that produced children able to endure the mind numbing work needed to survive might have done better than those who children were smarter but unable to stay with mind numbing labor.

It seems to me with the passage of time, and introduction of labor saving machinery and practices, the need for folks who can endure mind numbing hours of labor is becoming less, but (this is speculation on my part) it is possible that such folks are still being produced in great numbers.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-08-24 06:34:41

This new topic by Calliban offers an opportunity to explore the question of the direction taken by humans over millennia ...

I'm thinking of the question of "hunter" vs "farmer"

Those who followed the hunter path would have had to match wits with quarry, in addition to developing physical skills and capabilities for the chase. I have a memory of reading about hunters in Africa who were able to run after a large animal until it was exhausted.

Those who followed the "farmer" path would have been rewarded for their ability to hold steady in purpose for months at a time, and to learn the nuances of agriculture that increase chances of success.

Below is just one example of books that may focus on this topic:

The hunters and farmers theory of ADHD children is the idea that they are the "hunters" who are able to take in continuous stimuli and react quickly to changing circumstances. Whereas, non-ADHD children are the "farmers" who are patient, methodical, and focused over long periods of time.
ADHD: A Hunter in a Farmer's World by Thom Hartmann | Goodreads
www.goodreads.com › book › show

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-24 06:53:32

Chinese score high as I would expect, I don't seen any people from Norway or Japan or South Korea or Switzerland, perhaps they do private education or they are not enough of these cultures of people in Britain to get a mean average or maybe Swiss or Norweign are simply class as 'White' or Japan simply class 'Asia', people from Signapore and Finland should also rank high but I don't know if thats influence a cultural or genetic thing, Singapore are a mixed ethnicity peoples of mixed cultures and so are the Swiss. Black Caribbean are scoring somewhat Low I wonder if this is because of or bad boy stoner hooligan rapper 'Yardie' culture or is it genes, they seem to have a heritage of genetic mix from people mxing duing colonization and Black Carribean seem to be smarter than averages in Africa today. If you notice two very low levels there are groups that would class as White the 'Gypsy/Roma', 'Irish Traveller' I believe in some of these cultures there can be a tolerance of skipping school. The cultures can be 'Carnie' like with a tolerance of criminality in these cultures and they also inbreed with each other maybe sending their genes genetically backwards. Everyone normal I talked to in Europe seems to dislike the 'Roma' and Irish themselves seem to dislike their own version of gypsy 'Traveler', the Irish Traveler sometimes appear like gangster people with low impulse control and sometimes seem come with this boxer 'Conor McGregor' attitude, the current boxing heavyweight is an Irish-English gypsy 'Tyson Fury' I image as kids they probably bare knuckle boxed each other but I don't think that is good for your IQ. Roma, are thought to be an old Hindu Indo-Aryan ethnic group part of a lower caste that left India to Egypt to Europe a long time ago. GCSE is a British English education standard a General Certificate of Secondary Education, I am not sure how it compares to the USA and other countries I think it might classify within the public school system. I believe a lot of Geography, Algebra, Geometry, Biology, Calculus, that are taught as independent and sequential subjects can be combined under one general Science or Math subject in British schools. In England 7 (Key Stage 3) is called 'Sixth Class in Greece' or P7 Scotland, 6 in USA or 6 (Primary) in Australia, the British English school of 13 (Key Stage 4) is called Twelfth Class in Greece, S6 Scotland, 12 USA, 12 (HighSchool) Australia.

James Watson an American molecular biologist had his Noble Prize taken away when he talked of Race and IQ.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-24 06:57:16)

tahanson43206 · 2023-08-24 06:55:29

Some time ago GW Johnson posted a series about education.

He was willing to add a tag to the posts: "EducationDoneRight"

Here is one ...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 84#p157184

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 17#p157117

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 06#p157106

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 86#p157086

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 50#p157050

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 11#p157211

The list above was created by searching the query results, so they are not in chronological sequence.

Here is the same list in correct order:

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 50#p157050

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 86#p157086

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 06#p157106

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 17#p157117

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 84#p157184

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 11#p157211

To see the collection in sequence, set up your search as:
Keyword: EducationDoneRight
Author: GW Johnson
Index: Not So Free Chat
Topic or posts: Posts

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-08-24 06:59:38

RobertDyck set up an entire topic:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8765

This new topic by Calliban is larger in scope ... the one by RobertDyck was about US education

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-08-24 07:27:33

For GW Johnson:

After scanning your EducationDoneRight sequence (again) in preparation of the post above (#5), I realized that the question of this topic as implied by Calliban (and reinforced by Mars_B4_Moon) includes both genetics of the student, and the influence of the teacher, and on a larger scale, the expectations of the community.

In your post series, you said (as you have often said) that you have a low opinion of technological solutions for education.

It seems to me that the supply of gifted teachers is NOT unlimited.

For that matter, the supply of TEACHERS who are willing to work in the current anti-intellectual environment in the United States and in Afghanistan (and probably other Nations) may be limited.

Who would want to work in a community (extending up to an entire State in the US) where history is denied and in fact falsely forced upon the population?

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2023-08-24 08:24:40

For Calliban re new topic ...

Closely allied with the topic you have opened here is the "Thirst for Knowledge"....

There may be a genetic component to that ....

A good teacher (or set of teachers) combined with a student with a thirst for knowledge has at least a running chance of success.

I'm leaving it to the reader to determine what "success" means in this context.

(th)

Void · 2023-08-24 09:15:44

It seems to me that this topic is thoughtful. I am glad.

(th) said this in post #3:

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 14,568
Email
This new topic by Calliban offers an opportunity to explore the question of the direction taken by humans over millennia ...
I'm thinking of the question of "hunter" vs "farmer"
Those who followed the hunter path would have had to match wits with quarry, in addition to developing physical skills and capabilities for the chase. I have a memory of reading about hunters in Africa who were able to run after a large animal until it was exhausted.
Those who followed the "farmer" path would have been rewarded for their ability to hold steady in purpose for months at a time, and to learn the nuances of agriculture that increase chances of success.
Below is just one example of books that may focus on this topic:
The hunters and farmers theory of ADHD children is the idea that they are the "hunters" who are able to take in continuous stimuli and react quickly to changing circumstances. Whereas, non-ADHD children are the "farmers" who are patient, methodical, and focused over long periods of time.
ADHD: A Hunter in a Farmer's World by Thom Hartmann | Goodreads
www.goodreads.com › book › show
(th)

The study of Egypt is very interesting as concerns farmers. I believe that the bulk of the population was basically meat robots. The guiding classes of priests told them when to plant, so they did not even have to figure that out. So, then I sort of think of it as a "Hive Mind". They were not stupid, in fact could do very impressive things, but there was no need for the common people to be smart.

I believe that you can trace echo's from that across Athens>Rome>Paris>London>Dublin>Somewhere in North America. They are not structures I would be content with, but they have their place. People to the north of these have generally been looked down on as ignorant people worth enslaving.

The idea of "Fitness", or "Superiority", or "Superhuman", is really lacking proof. If you are an oddball in someone else's social structure, it is likely you will not be appreciated for a talent that they do not use. You might be a novelty or a threat if you display such talents.

A verbal oriented society is a slow-motion hive mind. Each individual does not need strong intellect. Farm food may not be as nutritious as big brains may need. A big brain might be benefited by hunter gatherer who may not use as much verbal activity. It may not be a good idea to be a blabbermouth while you are hunting or being hunted. So, you would need to know how to work with others without having everything discussed in meetings out by a more autonomous mind perhaps. One that can anticipate what partners are going to do with less verbalization.

But mobs do slaughter. When groups get into mob mode brains are not usually present. So, exterminations happen on a less than conscious level. So, probably hunter gathers best not go to town, or they may get blamed for things as they may seem strange.

As I understand it in some "Primitive" places, if someone walks by your house and something unfortunate happens, that stranger might get blamed for being a Witch".

I gather things from time to time. One study I read about, (So, it is hear-say), is that brown eyed people are quick, and blue eyed people are like birds of prey in their behavior methods. As I say it is hear-say reading though. I have no more evidence than my memory.

One thing that is true now is that things like math and language are given assistance now by computers to people who are not as proficient in those.

So, actually scores on skill proficiency may not be as important as they once were. Just reality, I am afraid. Perhaps "White Collar" workers are less valuable now because of that.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-08-24 09:37:05)

tahanson43206 · 2023-08-24 09:39:02

For Void .... while your post #9 is interesting for it's focus on Egypt (which I had not considered), it seems to me there are opportunities for you to help with the question of education.

Calliban opened with the interesting thesis that (as he observed) there appeared to be people in his time who were not "thirsting for knowledge".

I observed that the US Army (and I am confident the US Navy, and probably other services) are able to provide essential training (book and hands) for average persons. I did not observe a "thirst for knowledge" in my classmates, but it seemed to me the course materials and the instructional staff were sufficient to carry the majority of the students along.

The issue facing the United States right now, and probably other nations, and certainly Mars in the future, is how to develop productive citizens who will not seek to destroy the fabric of the society in which they were raised.

Education is the key to long term survival on Mars.

It may be the key to the long term survival of the United States, and perhaps other Nations.

(th)

Void · 2023-08-24 11:26:24

Alright let's live dangerous and risk consequences.

Chinese 69.2

It may be that there is a need for this to be added to a certain society. Someone has out gamed the ruling classes, parlor tricks magic show of who is worthy.

As for the lower scoring local people, they may be going to ground figuring to play things that way to hang on.

But at any time, I reserve the option to be wrong, as you have invited me to solve things that the best and brightest apparently cannot solve or do not want to solve. I should enjoy to option to be wrong and to be corrected in my thinking, should someone want to trouble themselves to make the effort.

But, to your questions. The internet is already an option for those who are curious. To a degree, but the devil people are now trying to use disinformation to manipulate things. So, I guess you have to filter what you read.

There may be several problems. Reality, from my perspective seems to have a guiding hand(s), which is converting one geographical geometric structure to another. Globalists want reality to be obedient to their fossil notion of what reality should be. The not interested people just don't want their time wasted by very stupid people who think they know what to do.

That is my best guess. If you think I adore where things are going, no, I don't. But the ruling powers not allowing the flow of geometry through time, have messed things up as far as I can see and very few want to follow such a losing path.

The future will arrive with or without us.

I am sorry to speak in riddles, but if I don't, I may inform powers of evil on what their next moves could be.

Done.

Maybe I am just off my medications?

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-08-24 11:36:08)

tahanson43206 · 2023-09-15 19:54:35

This is Calliban's topic, and I'm not sure where this item fits, but of the choices of topics with "eduction" in the title, this seems like a reasonable starting point ...

https://thewalrus.ca/is-homework-good-f … wtab-en-us

The article appears to be from Canada and about Canada, but there may be some similarity with practices in other nations. I don't remember any homework until high school but I sure got a lot of it there. In any case, the article at the link above is about a single family in Canada, which had to deal with homework in elementary school, until the family moved and the teacher at the new school did not assign homework. Around that story line, the author has blended commentary and inputs from related sources.

As a reminder, GW Johnson published a series on education which is available in the forum by searching for posts that contain "EducationDoneRight" in the body. If your search is successful, you should find six posts in sequence.

I just ran the search, and there are two additional settings: Set author to GW Johnson and Set [topics/posts] to Posts.

(th)

Terraformer · 2023-09-17 10:33:20

I think the Irish Traveller (and Gypsy/Roma?) results can be explained by the low value placed on schooling in that culture. A lot of the kids just don't get educated past maybe year 8.

But the attainment scores in that list cluster around 50, the score for White British. The outliers are Afro-Carribeans, Irish Travellers, Gypsy/Roma (worse than average) and Chinese, Indian (better than average). I wonder how Jewish students fare? I'd guess it would be skewed downward significantly by the ultra-orthodox not valuing secular education much. Simply racial categories don't properly capture the variation and what drives it -- "White British" will of course be a mix of middle class kids pushed by their parents and working class kids who don't see the point.

tahanson43206 · 2023-09-17 15:29:30

For Terraformer re #13 and topic in general....

A community on Mars will have an opportunity to create a new culture.

The valuing of education would seem to be a quality/feature that might be considered desirable.

I'm hoping this topic will explore how some cultures on Earth seem to support that value, while others do not.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-03-27 07:41:35

It might be time to bring this topic of Calliban's back into focus...

GW Johnson has prepared a course of instruction about basic concepts that would be needed by anyone who would like to learn orbital mechanics, with a role in navigation of a space craft in mind as an objective.

I have pitched Dr. Johnson's course to a Mom of a 12 year old, and while we may never hear back from the family, I am confident she and the son would have investigated. In the slim chance that we hear back from the family, I am inviting forum members to think about what an accelerated learning program for the upcoming summer break might look like. GW Johnson has described the general nature of the American learning schedule, which carries the bulk of the population along in a logical progression leading toward college level studies, where Dr. Johnson's course is most comfortably situated.

So! Does anyone have a suggestion for a reading list, viewing list and exercise regimen that would enable a student to take the course on offer in "Class" "Traditional" ?

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-03-27 08:08:07

I asked ChatGPT4 to consider the question of how to design a summer learning program that would prepare a 12 year old to handle Dr. Johnson's college level course on Basic Orbital Mechanics. Here is the report. We were cut off by communications errors in the final line, but enough of the report came through that I decided to post it.

Education Plan for Aspiring Spacecraft Navigators
Introduction: This plan outlines a summer curriculum designed to advance a 12-year-old student from basic grade school knowledge to understanding freshman college-level concepts in orbital mechanics, with a focus on the skills necessary to become a spacecraft navigator and potentially a mission commander.
[underline]Week 1-2: Foundations in Mathematics and Physics[/underline]
Objective: Solidify understanding of algebra, geometry, and basic physics.
Navigator Connection: Explain how understanding forces and motion is crucial for plotting spacecraft trajectories.
[underline]Week 3-4: Introduction to Calculus and Advanced Physics[/underline]
Objective: Begin calculus with a focus on derivatives and integrals. Introduce Newton's laws of motion in more depth, especially the law of universal gravitation.
Navigator Connection: Demonstrate how calculus is used to determine the changing velocity of spacecraft and to calculate gravitational forces between celestial bodies.
[underline]Week 5-6: Astronomy and Celestial Mechanics[/underline]
Objective: Basic concepts of astronomy, focusing on the solar system, celestial movements, and Kepler's laws.
Navigator Connection: Show how navigators use celestial bodies for positioning and the importance of understanding their movements for mission planning.
[underline]Week 7-8: Orbital Dynamics[/underline]
Objective: Dive into orbital mechanics, including orbit types, delta-v calculations, and Hohmann transfer orbits.
Navigator Connection: Practical exercises in plotting transfer orbits, emphasizing the navigator's role in mission planning and execution.
[underline]Week 9-10: Practical Applications and Simulations[/underline]
Objective: Use simulation software to model orbits and plan missions. Introduce basic concepts of spacecraft operation and control.
Navigator Connection: Engage in hands-on navigation exercises, simulating real mission scenarios where students must calculate and plot courses.
[underline]Continuous Elements:[/underline]
Visual Aids and Simulations: Use AI like DALL-E to visualize complex concepts and orbits. Simulation software can provide a practical understanding of celestial mechanics.
Career Insights: Throughout the program, integrate stories and examples from real spacecraft navigators and mission commanders. Highlight how the skills being learned apply directly to their roles.
[underline]Supplemental Activities:[/underline]
Guest Speakers: Invite professionals from the field of space exploration to share their experiences and insights.
Project Work: Encourage students to undertake a project that involves planning a mission, using the mathematics and physics they've learned to plot a course to another planet or moon.
[underline]Final Project:[/underline]
Mission Planning Exercise: Students will use their accumulated knowledge to plan a space mission. This includes selecting a destination, calculating the necessary orbits, and

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-03-27 08:11:39

A program such as described in Post #16 could be offered at a national level, if there were sufficient interest.

PBS is a natural venue. It already has a dedicated kid's channel.

However, the Internet is now powerful and pervasive enough to provide the entire course online, with the added advantage that AI assistance can be enlisted to provide moment by moment coaching.

(th)

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#1 2023-08-23 22:26:58

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Education Plan for Aspiring Spacecraft Navigators

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