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#76 2021-04-06 09:16:32

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,361

Re: The fusion age has begun.

If MIT's SPARC truly can achieve "Q=10" and the REBCO superconductors produce a magnetic field strong enough to stabilize the plasma, then it's a viable reactor design.  The rest of the major components are functional / usable, as-is.

There are two primary problems with all previous devices built:

1. Q<1
2. Plasma stability associated with low magnetic field strength

The first problem is an absolute show-stopper, even if everything else works flawlessly.  The second problem is also a show-stopper, no matter what Q is equal to.  If both of those problems are resolved in this new design, then the basic fusion reactor design concept is viable and the rest of it is an engineering exercise.

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#77 2021-05-29 18:24:52

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: The fusion age has begun.

China’s “Artificial Sun” Fusion Reactor Just Set a World Record
https://futurism.com/chinas-artificial- … rld-record
The reactor got more than 10 times hotter than the core of the Sun.

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#78 2021-06-23 14:26:47

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/finance … 00874.html

The transport process is a bit tricky, and will involve specialized heavy transport vehicles along multiple legs of the journey. After loading each module, General Atomics will ship the pieces to Houston, where a transport ship will pick them up. The company will send Module 1 to sea in late July, and it will arrive in France by late August. ITER estimates that ground transit to the reactor site will take place in early September.

First of six 110 Metric ton magnets

(th)

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#79 2021-06-23 16:57:51

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: The fusion age has begun.

This thread started ten years ago. And really - what progress has been made? Nothing tangible. Compare and contrast with wind and solar energy plus battery storage.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#80 2021-06-23 17:42:29

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,352

Re: The fusion age has begun.

louis wrote:

This thread started ten years ago. And really - what progress has been made? Nothing tangible. Compare and contrast with wind and solar energy plus battery storage.

Plenty.  Here is just one example from the UK.  You just don't know about it, because you aren't interested in it and didn't bother reading into it.  That doesn't mean that progress hasn't been made.
https://arpa-e.energy.gov/sites/default … INGHAM.pdf
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12 … er-station

There has been similar progress with ICF at Lawrence Livermore, which I personally believe is a more promising approach.  Fusion fission hybrids could be built today.

There has been no technological progress of any significance in wind, solar or battery technologies over the past 10 years.  These technologies are mature.  In many respects, Dutch windmills of the early 20th century were better optimised and more sustainable than the wind turbines of today.  They were built with lower embodied energy, sustainable materials.  They didn't wear out in 20 years and their stone and brick towers remain to this day, many of them remain operable.  And they had ways of working that allowed them to manage intermittent energy generation.  What progress has been made in the development of wind power over the past 100 years?  How tangible do you suppose it is?  Solar power is as old as the pyramids.  Solar thermal power plants are as old as diesel engines.  Battery power has been around for even longer.  Thomas Edison's nickel iron batteries of over a century ago, are more durable than anything being used today.  In fact, many of them still operate.  Compressed air energy storage and pumped storage are even older.  If anything, these technologies worked better in the past than they do now.  I would argue that wind and solar power have moved backwards.  They have gone from being simple and durable technologies, to over-complex and unsuitable technologies.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-06-23 17:59:06)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#81 2021-07-14 06:26:19

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: The fusion age has begun.

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#82 2021-08-06 07:38:19

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: The fusion age has begun.

This Company Is Aiming To Become The First One To Provide Commercial Fusion Power

https://wonderfulengineering.com/this-c … ion-power/

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#83 2021-08-18 08:15:23

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

The article at the link below is an update on progress at the laser fusion lab in California/US.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/us … 36523.html

US lab stands on threshold of key nuclear fusion goal
Paul Rincon - Science editor, BBC News website
Wed, August 18, 2021, 8:19 AM

Progress appears to be slow but steady.  Break-even remains a goal, but that goal appears to be closer.

(th)

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#84 2021-09-10 06:49:09

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: The fusion age has begun.

US team claims viable path to commercial fusion power

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/mit-cfs-c … ion-power/

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#85 2021-09-10 20:25:00

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

Here's another report, as a follow up to Mars_B4_Moon Post #84

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … hp&pc=U531

The MIT and CFS team is hoping to have a test plant operational by 2025.

"It's a big moment," says Bob Mumgaard, CEO of CFS. "We now have a platform that is both scientifically very well-advanced, because of the decades of research on these machines, and also commercially very interesting.

"What it does is allow us to build devices faster, smaller, and at less cost."

The new superconducting magnet is reported to achieve 20 Tesla.

Trying to merge this magnet type with a plasma chamber remains ahead.

(th)

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#86 2021-11-25 14:36:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,747

Re: The fusion age has begun.

Seems that we are getting closer Artificial Sun, Which Could Create Almost Limitless Clean Energy, Breaks Plasma Record

Korea Institute of Fusion Energy's Korea Superconducting Tokamak Advanced Research (KSTAR) reactor maintained super-hot plasma within a magnetic field for 30 seconds.

That is a long time.

Theoretically, one liter of water could provide enough raw material for fusion to produce as much energy as the combustion of 300 liters of oil.

yet we are still using tons of water for fuel on mars to fill a starship

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#87 2021-11-28 10:39:31

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

https://phys.org/news/2021-11-fusion-re … ields.html

The article at the link above reports on use of a working fusion research reactor to test heat shield materials. Apparently the fusion reactor plasma flows are more similar to actual atmospheric flight conditions than any method used previously.

Most experiments conducted at DIII-D are intended to explore the physics basis for fusion energy. An existing system at DIII-D, known as the Divertor Materials Evaluation System (DiMES), is designed to test materials for future reactors. DiMES can expose test samples to various plasma conditions as well as launch pellets of test material through the plasma. Dr. Orlov and Dr. Eva Kostadinova of Auburn University, working with a team of scientists, undergraduate, and graduate students, used DiMES to study the ablation rates of carbon samples under extreme conditions and refine predictive models for carbon-based heat shield behavior (Figure 2). These experiments were conducted under the auspices of the Frontier Sciences program, funded by the U.S. Department of Energy, to provide access to DIII-D and other DOE-funded facilities to the broader physics community.

(th)

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#88 2021-12-03 21:42:32

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … d=msedgntp

Livermore National Laboratory will be submitting a paper for peer review.

"This result is a historic step forward for inertial confinement fusion research, opening a fundamentally new regime for exploration and the advancement of our critical national security missions. It is also a testament to the innovation, ingenuity, commitment and grit of this team and the many researchers in this field over the decades who have steadfastly pursued this goal," said Kim Budil, director of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.

(th)

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#89 2021-12-06 05:59:24

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: The fusion age has begun.

Finally, a Fusion Reaction Has Generated More Energy Than Absorbed by The Fuel
https://www.sciencealert.com/for-the-fi … y-the-fuel

Good press or a real result

or it still might not be an economically feasible???

A Fusion Reaction Generated More Energy Than The Fuel Absorbed For The Very First Time
https://wonderfulengineering.com/a-fusi … irst-time/

They have already crossed Q = 1 right?? Just so it is clear I'm not sure if these guys are in the energy electricity business as NIF develops H bombs primarily or do these hybrid systems create the regular fission waste? I'm not sure but I feel some 'Creative Accounting' is going on with these press news or numbers.

I'm somewhat skeptical of news releases but it seems major milestone has been breached in the quest for fusion energy.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-12-06 06:08:15)

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#90 2021-12-06 07:24:48

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,352

Re: The fusion age has begun.

kbd512 wrote:

If MIT's SPARC truly can achieve "Q=10" and the REBCO superconductors produce a magnetic field strong enough to stabilize the plasma, then it's a viable reactor design.  The rest of the major components are functional / usable, as-is.

There are two primary problems with all previous devices built:

1. Q<1
2. Plasma stability associated with low magnetic field strength

The first problem is an absolute show-stopper, even if everything else works flawlessly.  The second problem is also a show-stopper, no matter what Q is equal to.  If both of those problems are resolved in this new design, then the basic fusion reactor design concept is viable and the rest of it is an engineering exercise.

Another issue, in addition to the two you mentioned, is low power density.  Reaction rates within the plasma are proportional to the square of plasma density, I.e. pressure.  To keep the plasma stable, beta (the ratio of magnetic pressure to plasma pressure), must be at least 10.  That really limits the power density of an achievable reactor.  It suggests that even if a working reactor is technically achievable, it would be an economic disaster.  ITER will produce 500MWth with a reaction vessel volume of about 800m3.  The magnets and their cryogenic cooling systems are wrapped around the vacuum vessel.  That makes ITER one of the worst performing nuclear reactors ever built.  Even the old British Magnox reactors got better power density than ITER will.  ITERs core power density is two orders of magnitude lower than a PWR and nearly 3 orders of magnitude lower than a sodium cooled fast reactor.  Unless there is a dramatic improvement in power density, fusion reactors are on course to be an economic disaster and a net energy sink.

There is the additional problem of almost all energy being released as neutrons, which would irradiate every part of the reactor.  It is another reason why I am inclined to believe that IC is a more promising prospect than magnetic confinement.  The reactor vessel is compact, as an imploding fuel pellet has billions of times greater plasma density than any tokamak can achieve.  Lasers end up being bulky and power hungry, but I have a cunning plan on this front.


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#91 2021-12-06 09:15:42

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

For Calliban re #90

SearchTerm:Density of plasma as third factor for success of fusion reactor
SearchTerm:Neutrons as liability for fusion reactor design that produces only neutrons
SearchTerm:Inertrial confinement hint of future solution to reduce laser size

As a comment .... ITER seems worth the investment as a research tool.  If the Universe allows a better solution, the engineers and scientists attempting to achieve power break-even using ITER will have an opportunity to discover it.

Mere paper studies will not provide the insight needed to justify investment in the next generation of magnetic confinement reactors.

It was the combination of successful experiment and remarkable paper studies that led the United States to bet big on atomic power.

All-in-all, a helpful post, for anyone following this topic.

(th)

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#92 2021-12-06 12:28:29

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

This post at the link below came from one of Void's many topics ...

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 32#p188332

Ideally, we would eventually be able to fuse regular Hydrogen itself someday.

This observation by Void inspired me to ask what's behind the statement that fusion reactors would tend to prefer Deuterium or even Tritium as fuel, as compared to Protium, which is more abundant.

I was surprised to learn that small stars are too small (have insufficient gravity) to burn protium.

This implies (to me at least) that if humans learn how to burn protium, they will be in the Solar Big Leagues.

Deuterium vs hydrogen
Deuterium and tritium are isotopes of hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe. Whereas all isotopes of hydrogen have one proton, deuterium also has one neutron and tritium has two neutrons, so their ion masses are heavier than protium, the isotope of hydrogen with no neutrons.

DOE Explains...Deuterium-Tritium Fusion Reactor Fuel
https://www.energy.gov › science › doe-explainsdeuteriu...
Search for: Deuterium vs hydrogen
About featured snippets

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Why is it easier to fuse deuterium than normal hydrogen?
Image result for compare fusing hydrogen-hydrogen to deuterium-deuterium
Even though protostars can't fuse normal hydrogen atoms, they can fuse deuterium. Deuterium is a rare form of hydrogen that has both a proton and a neutron in its nucleus. Deuterium is much easier to fuse than normal hydrogen, so both protostars and some brown dwarfs are able to fuse it into helium.

Protostars - ASPIRE
http://sunshine.chpc.utah.edu › Labs › StarLife › protostars
Search for: Why is it easier to fuse deuterium than normal hydrogen?
How does hydrogen fuse into deuterium?
Image result for compare fusing hydrogen-hydrogen to deuterium-deuterium

What is the product of the fusion of hydrogen and deuterium?

What fuse is used to form deuterium?
Two pairs of protons (two pairs of hydrogen atoms) collide and become two atoms of deuterium. Each deuterium them combines again with a proton (hydrogen) to form helium-3, which combine again and eventually form helium-4.Jan 31, 2020

Nuclear fusion - Energy Education
https://energyeducation.ca › encyclopedia › Nuclear_fu...

If a forum member is so inclined, I'd like to see a post or two showing the numbers that lie in store for anyone intending to build a protium-protium reactor.

At a minimum, I'd be interested to see the velocity needed by two protons meeting in head-to-head collision to fuse.

The citations quoted above indicate that four protons must meet to make two deuterons, which decay into one Helium and a proton.  It would appear from the citations above, that the gravity of a fairly significant star is needed to bring about conditions where Deuterons can be created as described.

(th)

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#93 2022-01-01 18:58:14

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: The fusion age has begun.

I wonder if they are using AI controlled containment

It seems like they are continuing to move, there is news that China’s ‘artificial sun’ now burns at 70 Million degrees for 20 minutes

Chinese 'artificial sun' sets new world record - continuous high temperature plasma operation for 1056 seconds (at temperature 70 million degrees Celsius), the longest time of operation of its kind in the world
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202112/ … 7e947.html

Will Nuclear Fusion Ever Power the World?
https://gizmodo.com/will-nuclear-fusion … 1848149991

Chasing Energy’s Holy Grail: Was 2021 Fusion Power’s Breakthrough Year?
https://singularityhub.com/2021/12/27/c … ough-year/

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#94 2022-01-01 19:16:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,747

Re: The fusion age has begun.

We are chasing a can that when we get closer we kick it down the road once more making it not achievable once more as humans go as start to see weapons from this great level of energy.

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#95 2022-01-26 14:14:15

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

For SpaceNut re #94

Your post implies doubt that fusion will ever be achieved ... here is a hint of a possible end of the rainbow .... not the pot of gold! Just a hint!

The article at the link below reports on a technical achievement by the Laser Fusion facility in California:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/researchers- … 39465.html

"Fusion energy is the holy grail of clean limitless energy," said Annie Kritcher of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, lead designer for the experiments conducted in 2020 and 2021 at the National Ignition Facility and first author of a companion paper published in the journal Nature Physics.

In these experiments, fusion produced about 10 times as much energy as went into heating the fuel, but less than 10% of the total amount of laser energy because the process remains inefficient, Zylstra said. The laser was used for only about 10 billionths of a second in each experiment, with fusion production lasting 100 trillionths of a second, Kritcher added.

Zylstra said he is encouraged by the progress.

"Making fusion a reality is an enormously complex technological challenge, and it will require serious investment and innovation to make it practical and economical," Zylstra said. "I view fusion as a decadal-scale challenge for it to be a viable source of energy."

(Reporting by Will Dunham, Editing by Rosalba O'Brien)

(th)

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#96 2022-02-03 11:15:49

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

There appear to be investors willing to take the long view ....

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/kyot … 51701.html

Kyoto Fusioneering secures $11.7M to build out its fusion reactor technologies

Mike Butcher
Thu, February 3, 2022 5:00 AM
With startups getting into nuclear technology, it's no surprise to see more fund-raising happening. Now, Kyoto Fusioneering, a fusion energy startup based out of Japan but increasingly expanding abroad, has raised 1.33 billion yen (US$ 11.7 million) in its latest round of funding. The company has now raised 1.67 billion yen (US$ 14.7 million) to date.

In 2020 the U.K. government-backed STEP, a prototype reactor, aiming to have it operating by 2040, and Kyoto Fusioneering has been awarded several contracts to support its development. This is going to be key to KF’s future.

The series B funding round was supported by existing investors, Coral Capital Co. Also participating was Daiwa Corporate Investment, DBJ Capital, JAFCO Group, JGC MIRAI Innovation Fund and JIC Venture Growth Investments.

KF has also secured an 800 million yen ($7 million) debt financing from Bank of Kyoto, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation, and MUFG Bank.

The funds will be used to accelerate its research and expand the business, developing its plant engineering technologies for plasma heating (gyrotrons) and heat extraction (blankets). These technologies are needed in the development of fusion reactor projects.

At the moment a group of nations are supporting the international ITER project (the European Union, Japan, the United States, Russia, Korea, India, the UK, and China), a technology test reactor which will be first operated later this decade.
O
thers, such as the U.S. and China, are pursuing their own domestic programs. The Japanese government also has a number of initiative sin the fusion space.

James Riney, Founding Partner & CEO of Coral Capital, said: “Climate change is an existential threat to humanity, and a fusion energy future, if achieved, could be the silver bullet that literally saves the world.. While many startups talk about how they want to change the world, this company is actually doing it.”

Nuclear fusion promises a lot but to date has not delivered a great deal, but if someone gets it right, it has the potential to solve much of world’s energy and environmental problems, given it would mean a virtual unlimited fuel resource, and clean energy with no carbon emissions.

(th)

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#97 2022-02-03 11:17:03

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

If someone has time to investigate, I'd appreciate a report on "gyrotrons" and "blankets" as described in Post #96

(th)

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#98 2022-02-09 15:07:39

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,748

Re: The fusion age has begun.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oxfords-jet- … 21127.html

Jonathan Amos - BBC Science Correspondent
Wed, February 9, 2022, 8:48 AM EST
European scientists say they have made a major breakthrough in their quest to develop practical nuclear fusion - the energy process that powers the stars.

The UK-based JET laboratory has smashed its own world record for the amount of energy it can extract by squeezing together two forms of hydrogen.

If nuclear fusion can be successfully recreated on Earth it holds out the potential of virtually unlimited supplies of low-carbon, low-radiation energy.

The experiments produced 59 megajoules of energy over five seconds (11 megawatts of power).

There is a fair amount of detail included in the article.

The key take-away is that a change of reactor liner had the desired effect of reducing losses of neutrons.

The new reactor liner will (I presume) be used in the larger reactor under construction in France.

(th)

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#99 2022-02-09 18:58:31

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,747

Re: The fusion age has begun.

Another few steps closer to as ""Researchers at the Joint European Torus experiment near Oxford managed to produce a record amount of heat energy over a five-second period,  Experts hail big step forward in fusion technology in UK

AATFlhd.img?w=768&h=384&m=6

A giant, doughnut-shaped machine delivers a major climate-change breakthrough — sustained nuclear fusion

EUROfusion is a consortium of 4,800 scientists, students and staff from across Europe. The U.K. Atomic Energy Authority was also involved, while the European Commission contributed funding.

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#100 2022-03-04 09:43:29

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,892

Re: The fusion age has begun.

Go the new way to deuterate erbium at high pressure, blast it with gamma rays, the erbium is cool the hydrogen trapped in a highly energetic state?

NASA’s Shortcut to Fusion Power
https://spectrum.ieee.org/lattice-confinement-fusion

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