New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * gmail.com to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#26 2018-02-15 17:52:03

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

The proverb Good Fences Make Good Neighbours from the Robert Frost’s poem Mending Wall. "The narrator of the poem is annoyed by his neighbor’s insistence that there has to be a fence between them. If only his neighbor would get beyond his father’s beliefs – originating in an old proverb – and reconsider his thinking." A wall does not make the unlawfull acts of others stop, they do not make anything better. Equating the wall with law enforcement will not work as the culture needs to change. The large wall can it be built "Without Ending Up in a Feud With Your Neighbors"?

Remember back to Aug 28, 2017 · Mexico To Trump: No, We're Definitely Not Paying For Your Border Wall, But the country has offered help to the U.S. as Tropical Storm Harvey batters Texas ..
Yes, they had to turn around to help there own people but the effort was started...
Thats was what a good neighbor is about.

Good Fences (and Border Walls) Make Good Neighbors was it built to keep the people out or to keep mother nature in....

http://origins.osu.edu/connecting-histo … gins-walls

Online

#27 2018-02-15 18:38:05

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,625
Website

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

The notion that a border wall will solve our immigration problems is UTTER POLITICAL BULLSHIT PROPAGANDA.  I can defeat a 30 foot high $25B dollar wall in 5 minutes for under $150.  So can anybody else,  on either side of the border.  All it takes is a 40 foot extension ladder,  a coil of rope to let you down on the other side,  and a pair of leather gloves so you don't burn your hands sliding down the rope. 

You solve the illegal immigration problem by matching immigration policy with the actual facts on the ground.  Policy is out of balance with the facts on the ground by a factor not far from 100.  This has been so for many decades,  and we have had an illegal immigration problem for those same many decades. 

The facts NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR:  the jobs that few Americans want because the pay is shitty (at best) and the work is hard are up here.  The work force willing to do those hard jobs for shitty pay is down there.  I'm talking about cleaning toilets,  mowing lawns,  and pouring concrete,  among others.  More Americans might actually do those jobs if the pay weren't so shitty,  but as long as the immigrants are illegal,  they can be extorted into doing those jobs for pay that shitty.  "Catch 22". 

What I'm talking about is the guest worker visa program,  where immigrant workers and their families come over to take those jobs.  The quota is between 100,000 and 150,000 such visas in any given year.  The illegal immigrant population of 10 to 12 million tells you what the actual size of this job market and the corresponding labor force really is.  As I said,  about factor 100 out of balance.  And for almost a century now. 

It is no secret that these people would starve in Mexico.  They come up here to survive.  They WILL come just to survive.  The reason they come illegally is that they cannot get a legal visa,  because the quotas are set factor 100 out-of-balance with the actual facts on the ground. 

WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE SURPRISED WE HAVE A LOT OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?  Anybody surprised by this is either terminally stupid,  hasn't paid attention to reality,  or has come to believe the bullshit political propaganda put forth about the this problem. This is a problem neither party will admit to,  because they get re-elected putting out bullshit propaganda about it.  By the way,  people are dying in the desert because of that political perfidy.  How unethical/evil and un-Christian is THAT?

There would be no DACA problem if both parties hadn't let this perfidy go on for many decades. If we fix the guest worker program,  the DACA problem goes away in a single generation.

My advice:  stop electing and re-electing these evil politicians.  Find some who will actually fix the guest worker quotas.  Then we will have absolutely no need of that utterly idiotic $25B wall bullshit.

Oh,  if you're worried about the drug traffickers (a tiny fraction of the illegal immigration problem),  then legalize it and let the price fall.  They'll be forced to find something else to do for a living.  Happened before,  with the Mafia and booze,  when we repealed Prohibition. 

Ain't it about time to actually learn from history?  For once?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-02-15 18:43:02)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#28 2018-02-16 11:37:01

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 4,732

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

GW,

There's no obstacle that can't be defeated if the obstacle is left unattended, but that's not what we're doing so I fail to see how your ladder and rope are relevant.  Incidentally, US Special Forces spent about three weeks trying to defeat the wall prototypes and tried your proposed method.  It didn't work.  I can defeat a wall without spending your $150.  It's called swimming.  The regressives and their gold plated solutions to simple problems are just nuts.  $150 to defeat a wall?  That's crazy talk.  I can guarantee that there won't be nearly as many pregnant women and children swimming to the US or scaling 30 foot high walls that have defeated our special forces attempts to overcome.

I'm starting to think that all the ire over the wall is due to the fact that it really will work, cutting off the supply of cheap laborers and potential for abuse of Mexican laborers by unscrupulous employers.  I guess that also means cutting off potential Democrat voters.  Since we haven't tried building a wall and appropriately staffing and funding our border patrol, we're going to try that first and see how well it works.  We've already spent far more money on dumber ideas that haven't worked, like the "war on drugs", for example.  Legalization of marijuana hasn't decreased DUI's in Colorado or California, either.  That said, I could give a crap about what people do on their own time.

Cleaning toilets may be a "shitty" job, as you put it, but Americans can learn to clean their own toilets.  It only takes me two minutes to make my throne shine.  I have to pay the HOA to cut my lawn, whether I want to or not, so I let them have at it.

If Mexicans are starving in Mexico, then maybe they can get rid of their non-performing government "leadership" (I use that word quite loosely in this instance) and replace them with leaders who respect and care for their own people.  That won't happen if everyone in the country runs away from their problems with their government.  I'm not surprised by any of the illegal immigration, either, I'm just tired of it.  The Mexican government's poor treatment of their own people is a problem for Mexicans to solve.  I'm not a Christian, so I don't care about what god thinks of my solution to this problem, which is forcing them to reform their own country and hopefully receive better treatment in the process, instead of causing problems for our country.

I don't look down my nose at people from Mexico or anywhere else.  The Mexican people have a problem they're unwilling to solve without being put between a rock and a hard place.  We're just putting that rock in front of them, better known as a wall, to help them deal with their hard place.  Once they do that, life will be better for everyone.

My other solution to this problem is annexing Mexico.  I'd love to see the dimwits they have in their military try to stop us.  The war might last a whole day before they surrender.  Maybe they'd start to take pride of ownership in their patch of dirt and start working with each other to solve their problems.  We seem to have the effect of galvanizing opposition to us in other parts of the world, so maybe it could work closer to home, too.

Anyway, real border enforcement or annexation are the only two options I support.

Offline

#29 2018-02-16 13:05:46

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,625
Website

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

Kbd512:

An unguarded wall is defeatable in multiple ways,  I don't care what Special Forces did,  or did not,  do in some damn fool demo for Trump's obsession with this project.  (You actually ask one of them,  they'll agree with me.)  You go over it,  under it,  or cut or blow a hole through it.  Period.  Many ways to do any or all of those.  That has been true since China built the Great Wall against the Mongols,  and nothing (I repeat NOTHING !!!) fundamental has changed since. 

If you put enough guards along the wall to make that defense effective on a short time scale of minutes to defeat ladders or explosives,  then you have enough troops to just guard the border outright.  In that case,  WTF do you need a wall for?  If you don't have that many troops,  the border crossers are going to get through that wall before you can stop them (except by chance),  and the wall doesn't do much good.  Time scale is the key here:  can they execute their crossing strategy before troops arrive to stop them? 

We already have walls and fences in certain places which already seem seem effective and appropriate at one or another level.  We do not have enough troops to patrol the rest,  including the river,  which is not deep enough to stop anybody,  except during the very rare flood event.  The smart thing to do is more troops patrolling those stretches more frequently.  Plain and simple. 

And if you solve the damned out-of-balance workers' visa problem,  those troops can concentrate on the drug traffickers.  Which is what they really should be doing in the first place.  There's your border enforcement!

As for cleaning toilets (etc.) for low pay,  if there were no more illegals from which to extort such low pay,  those jobs might be more attractive to more Americans.  That's the "catch 22" I spoke of. 

Fixing that issue is very long term necessary for Americans,  as the "captains of industry" automate more and more of our decent-paying jobs out from under us.  The next to go is long haul trucking,  I predict.  They will just eliminate the drivers,  the robot trucks will still crowd our roads (and kill us).  Right now,  that truck-driving job is the largest bunch of high-paying jobs left in this country.  Unbridled greed in action.  Essentially the definition of evil.  Ask any preacher.  In ANY religion. 

The other smart thing to do,  far smarter than trying to annex or conquer Mexico,  is help them finally develop a middle class.  That requires helping them curb their governmental corruption.  But there's a problem with us doing that. 

I fear we really cannot actually do that,  as we cannot even clean up our own governmental corruption that is destroying our own middle class.  "Splinter in the other's eye when you have a log in your own."  That sort of thing. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2018-02-16 13:22:13)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Offline

#30 2018-02-16 14:18:46

Terraformer
Member
From: Logres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,363
Website

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

The wall worked here in Britannia Secunda, to keep the Picts out.

If it takes 5 minutes to get over the wall (seriously, do you really think they'll be able to blow a hole in it or quickly tunnel under?), and the ICE agents can get there at 30 miles per hour to intercept them, then your mileforts wouldn't even need to be a mile apart. The border is just under 2000 miles. If each fort was 4 miles from the next, it would take 500 of them to cover the whole border. How many employees does the TSA have? Well, a quick look on Wikipedia says it's over 50,000, so if we reassigned them all to the Wall, we'd have 100 people per fort. Unless Mexico is literally invading, that's probably overkill, and would cost $2.5 billion/year if they were paid an average annual salary of $50k. Worth it if Mexico was actually threatening to invade, though.

I think the wall should be set back from the border, though. First it should be the Donald J. Trump Transamerican Canal (50m), then the Donald J. Trump National Park (500m), then Trump Hill (rammed earth structure, 20m high), and on top of that, Trump Wall (10m). With a barbed wire fence before all that. tongue

On a more serious note, if Americans will do those jobs if they paid more, then that's an argument for reducing immigration, not increasing it. It's supply and demand. If employers lose their cheap immigrant labour, they'll have to pay their employees more. America(ns) First, and all that.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

Offline

#31 2018-02-16 15:27:46

EdwardHeisler
Member
Registered: 2017-09-20
Posts: 350

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

Trump has a "beautiful" wall that he could base his new Trump wall on. The Berlin Wall.   And a new modern Berlin type wall built along the U.S. southern and northern borders could also be used to keep American residents inside the United Sates!

Wall off the whole damn nation from the rest of the world.  And stop those international plane flights!   Nobody in and nobody out of the new USA without a special Trumpian pass.

Seig Heil folks!

Offline

#32 2018-04-01 19:59:36

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

Trump warns of migrant caravan following Fox News report, but organizers say reality far from their portrayal

mexico-migrants-2-rt-jt-180401_hpEmbed_3x2_992.jpg

The march, versions of which have happened on and off since 2010 -- including twice last year -- will conclude at an official port of entry in California, Arizona or New Mexico, depending on train schedules, Mensing said. By then, he said, the migrants -- most of whom are Honduran -- will have heard from American and Mexican lawyers about the asylum processes in both countries. Organizers hope the “caravan,” like other recent marches, will highlight the issues of the right to seek asylum and the right to seek refuge. These participants legally claiming asylum at an official border entry point. “All are people who are fleeing some form of violence or persecution in Central America,”
Migrating through Mexico can prove dangerous for Central Americans headed north. Many fall victim to human traffickers and suffer abuses. Banding together has helped promote safety

mexico-migrants-4-rt-jt-180401_hpMain_4x3_992.jpg

Angry at this news is what

President Donald Trump on Sunday declared "NO MORE" to a deal to help "Dreamer" immigrants and threatened to pull out of a free trade agreement with Mexico unless it does more to stop people from crossing into the U.S. He claimed they're coming to take advantage of protections granted certain immigrants.

"NO MORE DACA DEAL!" Trump tweeted one hour after he began the day by wishing his followers a "HAPPY EASTER!"

The march for assylum via a country that had no problem with it marching through it....

Ok so we will have military action oversea but not south of the border to where they are fleeing from?

Online

#33 2018-04-02 17:15:17

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

Reugees need to be given an educational testing to see what skills they have and what aptitude they posess for getting work and to be self supportive. Then give them a score card of what is expected of them to be able to stay. Of which number one on that list is to speak in english as after a while no interpreters will be allowed. Meaning that your previous language now is your second language and that they are expected to live amoung american not in little cities of there nationality. America only works when it is a melting pot and not little nations. You continue to get assistance so long as the timeline and score cards are being met. This assisatnce will taper off and go away after a period of time. To which if they can not maintain a working status then they should be moved onto the next nation accepting refugees. To stay you must earn your citizenship....
Back to DACA and all others that are here after 2012 to present illegally go home and start over if you want to be apart of our nation. Those that have documentation of the past years while under DACA during the Amenesty periods stay all others expect to be sent packing. Others that have had children during that 2012 to present get a small period to show why they will stay. They will get no support and must complete the score card and push to be citiezens or Just go home and save the problem.....

Online

#34 2018-05-31 19:07:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

The list of deserts in your neighborhood to which all those that live, walk, work within should be called criminals and children seperated from there parents by your what you are calling endangerment....

567px-Deserts_of_North_America.svg.png

Cold deserts:

1    Thompson-Okanagan Plateau
2    Columbia Basin
3    Northern Basin and Range
4    Wyoming Basin
5    Central Basin and Range
6    Colorado Plateaus
7    Arizona/New Mexico Plateau
8    Snake River Plain

  Hot deserts:

9    Mojave Basin and Range
10    Sonoran Desert
11    Baja Californian Desert
12    Chihuahuan Desert

We all know that the wall will be defeated and its will only slow thoses still going through it. We need to fix what is happening.

Why do we have this happening?
Trafficking
Assylum seekers
Workers seeking jobs
Visa issues
birthers

I would start by creating every 5 miles satelite processing towns, encampments for internment that are family friendly as to limit harm to children, create registry process of those there, have them work as part of being there, figure out whom are the criminals versus those that are good people,ect...

A better benefit to the US would be another watery way for shipping to happen cutting across the boarder area which would act like a greater barrier to those trying to head north than a wall would be. It would be a money maker not a governement fund taker to keep standing as a wall would be.

We could always just keep doing like we are currently U.N. says Mexican security forces are likely behind disappearances in border city “Many of these people are reported to have been arbitrarily detained and disappeared while going about their daily lives.”

This is one of the things I mentioned as being that you have seen them as criminals it should have been going on since the beginning...Trump admin: Parents must be fingerprinted to get back migrant kids Previously, parents coming to claim their migrant children had been exempt from inputting their fingerprints.
Finish the job thou with creating an Identification for each as DACA was meant to do, embed a chip for its use not just a photo and numbers. Create the data base of all possible documents to be linked to the individuals identification including children.

We are very aware of this issue and DHS lossing track of the children which had been seperated from those that they were or were not with Surge in migrant children at government shelters as Trump admin pushes 'zero tolerance' A total of 30,000 children have been referred to the Office of Refugee Resettlement so far this fiscal year, HHS said. There were 40,810 referrals in all of fiscal year 2017.

Its not the first and will not be the last Transgender migrant from Honduras dies in U.S. custody

I do not wish this on your family or any one else but it does seem inevitable as More racism coming out of the WH in Trumps apparent decision They came here as refugees. Now the U.S. may be deporting some Vietnamese nationals. An agreement between the U.S. and Vietnam excludes Vietnamese nationals who arrived in the U.S. before July 12, 1995, from being subject to deportation.

Online

#35 2018-06-12 21:48:02

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

There are quite a few primaries that are happening and the results are seeming to be off... Foreign interference in U.S. elections is still going on, Mueller tells judge, With five months to go before the midterm elections, the special counsel says meddling efforts still haven't stopped

Trumps North Korean seems to be a mixed bag of talk, detaunt for the escilation of words and a peaceful condition for nuclear deals in the future. Need to wait out more stories of the trip...

There appears some real effort on the imigration condition in House GOP moderates, conservatives reach deal to vote on two immigration bills, Congressional Republicans planned to discuss the plan at a closed-door conference meeting Wednesday morning

Trump has demanded that any legislative solution for DACA be coupled with border security measures, including a significant amount of funding for a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Seems the added presence on the border is having plenty of work as the number of those seek asylum is way up.
Critics denounce Sessions' move to restrict asylum for domestic and gang violence victims, “The attorney general today erased an important legal development that was universally agreed to be correct,” a group of judges wrote.

People fleeing domestic or gang violence, saying the decision could cost lives and endanger tens of thousands of people quite possibly on both sides of the issue. It has been proposed to create a tent city for the children in some locations.

On another note the infamous gang m-13 had some arrests finally in the news, all I can say is that its about time.

MS-13 gang members among 91 arrests during 5-day sweep in New Jersey, ICE says

The roundup last week included people from the age of 19 to 78 years old, with convictions for sexual assault on a minor, child abuse, domestic violence, aggravated assault, aggravated assault on law enforcement, endangering the welfare of a child, kidnapping, among other crimes.

Online

#36 2020-07-30 18:58:33

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Online

#37 2020-08-24 07:41:26

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

how-i-find-self-worth-as-a-daca-recipient-in-a-country-that-questions-my-worthiness

Since DACA's implementation in June 2012, my fellow "Dreamers" and I have been on a whirlwind ride of ups and downs about our future. In 2017, five years after DACA recipients found some footing by going through an extensive background check and being granted a work permit, the program was rescinded, leaving its future up to the courts. This left more than 700,000 recipients at yet another standstill.

On the heels of the Supreme Court decision in June 2020, which called the Trump administration's approach to rescind the program "arbitrary and capricious," we found hope in seeing the attempt to eliminate DACA derailed. We breathed a sigh of relief. Yet many of us knew that there were still too many open-ended questions, mostly, "What happens now?" Because the court didn't specifically lay out whether DACA was in itself unconstitutional, it left the program's future up for interpretation.

Online

#38 2020-11-14 18:15:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Online

#39 2021-07-18 09:35:53

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 23,392

Re: Status of DACA under Trump

This problem is now Biden's being seen in the response by AAMfqti.img?h=450&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

A federal judge in Texas on Friday ruled that the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program is unlawful. The decision, by US District Judge Andrew Hanen of the Southern District of Texas, injected uncertainty into the lives of hundreds of thousands of young immigrants, as well as their families.

With a But to its as those in the registration are to continue but no new applicants can be taken.

As of March 31, there were 616,030 DACA recipients, the majority of whom were from Mexico.

What did Judge Hanen do?

Hanen declared DACA unlawful because he concluded it had violated the Administrative Procedure Act, which dictates what procedures agencies must go through to implement certain policies.
DACA was established by the Obama administration in 2012.

The program offers undocumented immigrants who were brought to the US as children protection from deportation as well as certain authorizations to work in the US. To be eligible, applicants had to have arrived in the US before age 16 and have lived there since June 15, 2007. They could not have been older than 30 when the Department of Homeland Security enacted the policy in 2012. Recipients are required to renew their protections every two years. The program doesn't provide permanent protection or a pathway to citizenship.

Basically congress was skipped so thats true of all executive orders so lets strike them all down for that same reason...

Online

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB