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Here is an idea, why not Ghost production facility for cars, ghost cities and ghost bike factories of Mars?
Ford or Toyota might have their car driving around the Lunar landscape but I believe this is the wrong method for Mars Colonization. The Mars factory will face unique factors being so far away for humans but robots that can stay on the surface without food or air also having access to so many more resources.
That Mars city and production facility for Mars cars could be made before the human arrives.
All of this assumes we already know where the resources are and we already have Mars Sample Returns to know what Mars is made of and we have enough power and supplies. When you set up automobile productions, only very high tech items impossible to produce on Mars would be shipped from Earth, all of the frame of your vehicle made on Mars, bulk material of your car or truk, all of your railway would be made on Mars.
Building a Car on Earth to Drive on the Moon is going to give manufacturing bragging rights, there will be celebration as Ford or LM or Nissan but why not build most vehicles offworld before people get there.
This is a strange concept to get your mind around but what if instead of doing a flag planting mission your humans arrive last. The village and city would already be trying to implement the Self-replicating colony, robots building other robots, cars collecting material for other cars and village building other villages. I would say look at pre-planned towns or maybe think of how people build these huge new un-occupied cities in Asia, the Chinese government was known for this planning for an economy it expects to grow and grow, it happened also Brazil, in Myanmar, in Kazakhstan. Pre-planning at this level it was thought to be a bad idea as reported in Western media but sometimes it has produced great result, ghost cities did materialize into economically vibrant areas when given enough time to develop it can work in Latin America, the USA and Europe and other parts of Asia. Making a city and factory without people is possible and or we can look how new cities pop up, in other parts of the world, new city design in Sejong City South Korea, Kiruna in North Sweden, Porto Covo south of Lisbon Portugal, Nova Gorica Slovenia on the border with Italy, Pegasus in New Zealand, New Clark City Philippines, Zhongxing New Village Taiwan, Mobile Alabama USA, Holyoke Massachusetts USA, Nocatee Florida, La Grande-Motte South of France, Sapporo in Northern Japan these are all planned towns, village and cities sites on Earth. In the past times on Earth the traditional Cities grew out of towns and village, a very organic history on Earth, fishermen, explorer boats arrived, there might have been old forts and battles and ancient cultures along a region and road for hundreds of years before. Later in Earth's history farmers and artists and musicians and cooks arrive, donkey and cart and horse would bring items, and then commerce and economics. The Mars city would feel less organic than some of Earth's oldest cities but it could be 'well planned' examples of planned cities might be Brasilia in Brazil or Brasília, Canadian cities are sometimes a mix of planned and unplanned growing from the first trans-continent line one example Mount Royal, Quebec, there is also Dimitrovgrad in Bulgaria, Adelaide in Australia, the infamous Chernobyl now an abandoned city, the Proposed new capital of Egypt the New Administrative Capital (NAC). Most of your Mars power plant systems might be created before the final parts arrive for assembly, once you have power you can then have construction and manufacturing and farming you can build a pre-planned village.
I think a big step will be having Robots running an assembly line, robotics running vertical farming and factory produce, perhaps a Solar Farm first or Reactors, MOX fuelrods, in core control rods, a rotating reflector drum, there is the SP-100 Space reactor Prototype a US research program for nuclear fission reactors usable as power systems for spacecraft, a big step will be building the Multi Purpose Factory. Maybe 3-d printing and AI humanoid robots part of this technology, the possibility of smelting and generating heat from chemical fires, extracting water from permafrost. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has been terrible but if there is a positive its the world is once again looking at new power sources, in the future he new reactor will be lower mass and does exactly the same job of old power planet designs. Solar panels are fine on Mars but they don't work at night and every vehicle seems to die by 'Dust' there will be a need to deal with the dust issue on Mars. The Mars power plants when finally occupied by humans would be operated by highly trained individuals, the designs take considerations of simplicity and safety.
One power
Kilopower is an experimental project aimed at producing new nuclear reactors for space travel.The project started in October 2015, led by NASA and the DoE’s National Nuclear Security Administration As of 2017, the Kilopower reactors were intended to come in four sizes, able to produce from one to ten kilowatts of electrical power (1-10 kWe) continuously for twelve to fifteen years
https://web.archive.org/web/20220418063 … ed_Planet/
One of the first missions after having a Factory and Robots on the surface might be to create other Diggers and Robots, the tech of Mars would build more Mars robotics and technology. Mars could build the Construction Technology to build other Plants, Robotic Farms and Factory. Could a future technology develop, advancements in the ability to print parts or 3D Printed Houses on Mars? Once vehicle production beings Mars could have certain products most of the parts 'Bikes', a factory almost ready to build the Railway Track and Trains, Cars or Trucks for example almost ready to drive before the human arrives. The Car or Train might be a hybrid system used on Earth, maybe use Battery, a solar panel mounted above the vehicle, hydrogen storage bottles on the outside or maybe RTG somewhere on a Car or Train.
The idea of a more simple manufactured Ropeway can be used inside a type of bucket to move material across difficult terrain, the capsule pipelines used transporting bulk materials. Building human support systems such as the first farms inside a Biodome or the Mars first crew greenhouse for fuel production or food production inside a Biosphere will be a big step but it might not need be the priority as you could wait until later for humans to arrive. The humans only arrive after much of the Mars city and Mars factory is already in assembly. The craft ARES was a proposal to build a robotic, rocket-powered airplane, NASA Mini-Sniffers were a series of unmanned aerial vehicles designed to sample the air at high altitude, flying makes sense on Mars. The factory or factories might already be producing robotic scouts, the blimp, the little helicopters, Sky-Sailor concept, Aerobot or something like the Vega Ballon or Titan Dragonfly. The aircraft or glider launched from one part of Mars might pick up a valued resource and exchange resources and material with another empty robotic village on another part of the planet, it would move business in an exchange of needed resource. Robots might already be collecting material delivered by Railgun and unique propulsion from other parts of the Solar system, an exchange of hardened low tech product.
When humans arrive they will innovate to keep all these Biodomes and Power Plants and Product Facility and Cars and Biospheres in working order. The Humanoid Robots and Diggers that will have gone before humans will have done most of the work to build a structural frame work for a developing human colony. However when you look at the South Pole very few people stay over in the Winter, they live in the Summer Season. When humans do arrive they might transition back between the North of Mars and South of Mars for seasonal work, live inside Motorhome design. The human of Mars might be nomadic living inside a life of Caravan Wagon trails following the work, Mobitat designs, the size of a large mobile home, could perhaps cruise around for a long time scouting for product or mineral, finding ores, prospecting. When humans arrive they will deal with their own biological human issues, dealing with sewage there might already be systems in place with animal 'farming' humans will have to produce and make their own less complex Suits using available resources on Mars and deal with maintenance issue and wear and tear. There would perhaps be a contest of sorts who can deliver the best products village to village and caravan or wagon train approach would provide safety. Only after the first Farms and Mars first crew greenhouse are succesful would you only think about immigration of more humans, but before all this you could be building more scout robots, more cars and more un-manned factories.
The Robots would not need food or air, the Massive excavator and drilling equipment could all be robot operated, there could be Robots that lay brick or build steps and flights of stairs but the humans would have their own industry and natural economy need vehicles to travel. Some humans might like to look at the Sun insie Biodomes, others prefer to be inside Lava Tubes and Caves away from Solar Radiatioon, there might be Hillside Settlement. Humans might stay together when traveling as they do at the South Pole and risks involved without the convoy. People might fall or have radio problems or get lost when alone, without others in convoy it would be dangerous to take long trips. In design of the correct engine and power, the range is only limited by the amount of food the crew carries and the 100 day internal air supplies. There could be a manufacture contest to see which Vehicles the Colonists prefer, the Big, heavy, pressurized Truck type design or the smaller Buggy or Bike type design that would require a space suit. When burning fuel on Mars a vehicle would have to carry not only the fuel but the oxygen as well.
Factory Assembly on Earth, some of the Automation inside German and Japanese factories are very interesting.
Yamaha Motorcycles Production - FACTORY Tour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-qxKsKmwS8
Harley-Davidson Engine Assembly on the factory line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaohBRGwNyM
BMW Motorrad ENGINE - PRODUCTION
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlsuUmwV6G4
Phillippines channel
'Piaggio Ape, 230cc Engine from the maker's of Vespa Scooter | Italian Technology & Eng'g since 1948'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pKHWQZQas4
2002 article on the Mars UAV
'Devon Crater Team To Test Mars Plane Concepts'
https://www.marsdaily.com/news/marsplane-02a.html
A City Rises on the Plain...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8833
Domestic vs Industrial
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=177
Robots becoming useful...
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6241
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-16 12:16:45)
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I will give more detailed comments later. But as a starter:
1. Robotics are a good idea, because Martian labour costs will be through the roof. But is it realistic to expect robots to build Martian bases and complex equipment without any human supervision? I just cannot see it. When we have people on Mars, robotics will boost their productivity. But having robots operating autonomously has never been a realistic expectation up to now. Can we expect that to change anytime soon?
2. Cableways are promising for Mars and the moon, because they obviate the need for roads and do not stir up fines. In Apollo, dust contamination destroyed all moving parts exposed to it in hours. Martian rovers have racked up many kilometres and years on the surface. But the wheels and moving parts have all taken a hammering and they are not required to carry heavy loads. I think trucks on Mars would need a lot of maintenance and would wear out quickly. The main problem with cableways is having a cable that is sufficiently strong and ductile at Martian temperatures. Austenitic stainless fibres would do the job, but that means have the ability to make stainless steel on Mars.
3. I was initially enthusiastic about capsule pipelines and think they could have applications on Earth. The problem on Mars is the extremely low temperature. Whilst it is possible to depress the freezing point of water by adding salt down to -60°C, the resultant liquid has the viscosity of treacle. The amount of pumping power needed for water to flow even at human walking speed would be excessive. Liquid CO2 is possible, but even at -60°C, it requires several bars of pressurisation. I don't think capsule pipelines would work as well on Mars as they would on Earth. On Earth, they would deliver a comparable service to railways, but are maybe cheaper to install. On Mars, they would need heating, which defeats the point of them.
4. If we do produce roads on Mars, then the balanced monorail system described by Terraformer (The Ewing System) might be a good way of transporting heavy loads. The vehicles have tires for balance, but most of the weight is carried by the central rail. This reduces energy consumption and also keeps the wear and tare on roads to a minimum. Maybe the road surface could be made from sulphurcrete mixed with gravel, on top of a layer of coarser, compacted stones. The rail will spread load to the underlying stones, using cast iron or solid stone sleepers, atop the coarse stone layer but beneath the camber. The rail could also function as a current return path, with the vehicle powered by an overhead DC cable. That avoids the need for having to make propellant. Small solar powerplant would be located every ten miles or so. These would store energy by compressing CO2, which will be released through a turbine powering sections as a vehicle passes. If we are willing to accept variable speed vehicles, we could make this system even simpler by having PV panels feeding directly into the overhead DC power cable without storage. Vehicle speed will then be proportional to power supply.
5. Boston dynamics produced a robot dog back in 2005. Could the same technology be applied to a Mars rover? A vehicle with legs may be less vulnedable to dust contamination than a wheeled vehicle. Moving parts could be encapsulated within flexible kevlar sleeves. The legs would be fitted with steel shoes, that can be unbolted and replaced as they wear. The Robodog has impressive dynamic stability. It was able to steady itself after being kicked sideways and could even jump over obstacles. We could have large, enclosed vehicles that operate this way, or we could have smaller ones that men in space suits ride like a horse.
Last edited by Calliban (2023-08-16 08:43:48)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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Interesting thread by Louis,
'Chemicals centre on Mars'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6107
Also a hopper might be tossed into the air from a manufactured silo 'port' after getting tossed it ignites to hope or fly and collect imporant resources
A reply to one of Calliban's interesting comments
But is it realistic to expect robots to build Martian bases and complex equipment without any human supervision?
Some men might never land, think of US astronaut Michael Collins and the job he did to make an Apollo mission successful. A station of guys in orbit might make important decisions while communication is delayed from Earth.
a topic on 'Teleoperation'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9678
Boston dynamics produced a robot dog back in 2005.
Have you see them dance or 'Atlas Gets a Grip'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e1_QhJ1EhQ
Perhaps also for Robots, an idea for using Carbon monoxide in situ propellants for an aircraft or car?
Nitrogen Tetroxide maybe useful but only inside a warm dome or tunnel, the Chemical Equation Balancers see many options.
2CO2+2hν → 2CO+O2
Perhaps also hybrid power for Cars and Trains
the most important thing might be first producing simple material for your humanoid robots, producing screws, steel bars, a type of glue, plastic frames and a screwdriver? maybe more complex micro design perhaps will need to be shipped from Earth.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-16 17:29:52)
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Time to check My Hacienda topic....
It does have some means but non seem to fit personal drive or owned which could make use of heat units, ice of rare fuel type and more
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