New Mars Forums

That may well be, but the time needed for a uniformly expanding civilization's habitat to expand across the entire Milky way is less than 5% of its age with our currently available rocket velocities.  If we assume a sizeable fraction of light speed, that figure easily falls within 0.1%.  Give us anything faster than light, and we can accomplish it in less than the amount of time humanity has already existed. 

The only way that scarcity alone can explain that absence of local civilizations is if there's no one else flying.  If you believe that the expansion of intelligent life through the galaxy will be uniform once it gets going, then you have to assume either no one ever gets out of their solar system or they've already been here.  The sheer extremity of either option suggests that the assumption of uniform expansion is wrong. 

Uniform expansion isn't true, or we're alone in the universe.  Those are the simplest explanations.

Wow.  The frame dragging around that black hole is precessing at a sizable fraction of the speed of light.  This should affect the centrifugal force in its neighborhood.  There may even be a region outside its event horizon where the net centrifugal force is downward. 

Cool.   8)

Was Grunsfeld referring to a manned expedition?

“Neo-traditionalist” is a description as much as a philosophy.  It applies to anyone selectively using traditional methods without living a culturally traditional lifestyle.  (It’s common to define “culturally traditional” as “pre-industrial”, but not completely accurate.  We’ve been industrial long enough to find tradition there, too.) A neotraditionalist may or may not have the same motivation for learning and preserving these methods as someone from a traditional culture, but is typically not motivated solely by the functional efficiency of the method selected.  As an adjective, “neotraditional” can be applied to groups as diverse as hobbyists and profiteers, cultists and jazz musicians.  Neotraditionalists tend to pick and choose their traditional methods rather than adopting cultures, but do incorporate these methods into their work, entertainment, home life, etc.  As a rule, neotraditionalists are not continuing an existing culture, but continuing existing methods. 

Reading through some of the ideas posted here and at other Mars exploration related web sites, I am seeing a lot of suggestions for use of methods selected from traditional, non-industrial cultures, included along with the obligatory high technology.  This is common among discussions of agriculture (this being a traditional pursuit common to many cultures in one form or another), but is also frequently mentioned in discussions of habitat, settlement, architecture, politics, motivations for space travel, and the potential for a uniquely Martian culture.   

In principle, neotraditionalism is well represented here.

However, we need to recognize that those methods won’t do us any good if nobody remembers how to implement them.  The value of neotraditionalist groups in our society lies in the fact that they preserve knowledge and skills abandoned by modern institutions, and they provide models of how those skill sets can be successfully interfaced with  modern industrial and postindustrial cultures.  The Mars Society has justified its Mars Analog Research Stations on the grounds that we need to promote skills for exploration.  Well, we need to promote skills for settlement, too. 

One way to do this is to share knowledge with other neotraditionalist groups. 

Settlement is something that a lot of neotraditionalist groups have experience with, and there are several that are well represented on the internet.  Just knowing they’re out there somewhere isn’t really sufficient, though.  We would do better to make contact and work with them, if only to learn and help preserve those skills useful to our goal.  Some may even decide they approve of it. 

I propose a simple first step: expand your blogging.  Find a group that’s interested in solar power, homesteading, or whatever other skill you think might be useful, and start communicating with them.  Have an agenda.  Of course, I see no problem telling everybody on gentlechristianmothers.com that you’re a space enthusiast, but there’s a limit to what that would actually do for the cause.  The goal of blogging around would be to gain knowledge, not converts.  The next step would be to actually start learning the skill and doing it yourself.  People who would otherwise care less about space exploration on general principles will still appreciate when space advocates share a common interest with them. 

Even though we don’t necessarily have a common goal, we have common interests with many other groups.  They just don’t realize it yet.

  OK, I will resist the urge to be a troll and start another thread to assuage my religious sensibilities.   :twisted:

You drink beer for the taste?

With all the extra workload a new tariff law could throw on me, I can't conceive that this will actually cost US jobs.   :evil:

Gee, I always thought science didn't fail until after the squirrel got squished...

I never realized the issue of US-Canada relations was so philosophically deep.   :shock:

What about something that can be farmed in inland ponds, then, like catfish or tilapia?

(There's probably a problem with this, too.  I just don't want to give up fried fish.  :twisted: )

I wonder what caused this surface texture in Victoria Crater?  The area of thick soil seen in this filtered image has pits and ruts.  It's hardly your typical barchons.

The same reason you bother with it on Earth - it's tough as nails, strong as hell, and (if you're able to do real metallurgy with it and not just turn out a few low grade castings) you can use it in almost anything.  For any aluminum alloy you can come up with, there's usually a better steel alloy for the same application. 

That's why you bother with steel.

Aluminum has only two advantages over steel: it's lighter, and it's easier to melt.  If you're not going to fly your moonbase, use steel instead of aluminum.

IMHO, there's nothing wrong with polypropylene and polyethylene.  However, we don't need thermal depolymerization products to make those.  The equipment for making these plastics can be sent with the first missions, and is both simpler and a lot less energy intensive than the process suggested.

True, actual breakdown products in thermal depolymerization of complex organic materials can be distilled for more than just diesel oil and can be used to make other plastics.  It offers a good means of recycling, too, but only if you have a lot of feedstock.  An entire colony of 30 or more people might (might) go through enough material each day to make the process worthwhile.  A half dozen prospectors staying a year or less would have no need of it, though.

So, the desirability of this type of recycling depends on how many people intend to live at the base.  It's simply not worth the effort for less than 30 to 60 people.

Since I'm all in favor of bases with 60+ crew size, I'm happy to vote "Yes" for this idea.  Don't settle for LDPE - go for Kevlar and Viton.