New Mars Forums

The present plans are just priming the pump.
Lot of talk before the new space race starts.
The country that dominates space will control events,
similar to British control, during the colonial period.

Long March V!

Any info?

Phobos Grunt
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4957

The president has proposed a vision. We will go to mars the moon and beyond. Baring world catastrophe I don’t doubt this will happen but will the presidents plan lead the US to reach mars first. Will the presidents vision get us there in the most efficient manner possible. As a space advocate I realize that the money to do what the president wants is just barely there given our current level of technology. To do what the president asks we must sacrifice science and perhaps billions of dollars of shuttle related infrastructure. We do this for the promise of greener pastures but we of yet know how we will reach those distant lands and sow those distant gardens or raise those yet inexistent cows. 

Any plan must address two issues. What short terms goals are we going to accomplish. What are we going to do to reduce the cost of achieving future goals. The first issue is to demonstrate we are serious and not producing vapor-where. The second goal tells us that we are progressing in terms of engineering, infrastructure and organization. For if there is know serious progression in engineering, infrastructure and organization we have traded science for nothing. 

Unfortunately without the required infrastructure the ships cannot be built to reach the moon. The engineers will not be able to test and demonstrate there ideas. But each piece of infrastructure that is sustained is sustained at a cost against future gains in engineering which can be used to achieve greater efficiency. This tension is epitomized in the space shuttle space station part of the NASA budget. It is recognized without billions of dollars increase in the NASA budget NASA cannot move forward into the solar system and sustain these programs. It is hoped by some that abandoning the ISS and replacing the shuttle with a cheaper and more powerful vehicle might be enough to move forward. Conceivably one could which such an approach move forward with a Manned mars mission  in this approach. But such a step forward relays on tenuous numbers put forth buy Zubring to reach mars in the quickest cheapest manner possible. Such a choice of transportation would allow a very robust moon or Mars programming funding and technology permitting.

The alternative approach is to upgrade the EELV to the 40-50 MT range to launch a lunner program and then choose a suitable vehicle later on for a manned Mars program. This would allow NASA to reduce costs while keeping the capabilities to launch humans into space. Given that is easier to land accurately on the moon it is more reasonable to build a lunar base up out of smaller chunks. However, the EELV’s can still be docked in orbit to push larger payloads if necessary.

A vehicle of this size necessary for a mars mission could conceivably be assembled in 40 MT chunks a Mars vehicle but there is a question at the cost and complexity of such an approach. Additional it is clear that the military would benefit from being able to launch payloads in the weight range. It is not clear if the military currently has a need to launch larger payloads.

The big drawback of this approach is that NASA may need to start over to develop its mars mission architecture. If the military needs an upgraded EELV why not let the military pay for it? However, initially going with EELV will let NASA put more money into the development of key technologies that will make a future mars mission easier. These include IRSU (e.g LOX production), RLV, space rated nuclear reactors, improved life support, better space suites, possible space based industries etc.

Thus we see as an advocate we are left in the flux of history. We see that on average NASA is moving forward and we hop it will minimize its steps backwards. Will letting some infrastructure fall lead to more efficiency in the future or will history judge these actions as missteps of progress. Time will tell. I will support the engineering decisions of the people in charge if they seem reasonable and hope the decisions are made on technical rather then political grounds.

The government has unveiled an ambitious blueprint for developing space science that includes the launch of the country's first astronomy satellite and more extensive international cooperation.

    The astronomical satellite will carry a "hard X-ray modulation telescope," which is being developed by Chinese scientists for launch in 2010, according to the Space Science Development Plan.

    The plan was released by the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense for the 11th Five-Year Plan (2006-10) over the weekend.

    The project will help Chinese scientists make breakthroughs in research of black hole physics and other fields, as hard X-rays originate mostly from regions close to black holes, experts said.

    The telescope would be preceded by Shijian-10, a recoverable satellite to be sent in 2009 for scientific experiments, according to the plan.

    The document singles out three international cooperative projects to be implemented in the current Five-Year Plan period.

    They include a joint unmanned mission to Mars with Russia, which will not only bring samples back to Earth but also land on one of the red planet's tiny moons, Ye Peijian, a leading scientist at the Chinese Research Institute of Space Technology, said last August.

    China and Russia will also work on the World Satellite Observatory of Ultra-Violet.

    Another international cooperation project is the Small Explorer for Solar Eruptions (SMESE), a Chinese-French mission to observe solar flares and Coronal Mass Ejections for the next Solar Maximum in about 2011.

    The plan does not specify a timetable for the three projects.

    It says China will focus on innovation and sustainability of space science development to better serve the national economy and security, and help build China into an "innovative country".

    The government will set up a system to ensure scientific projects are chosen in an "open and fair" fashion, and "multiple sources" are encouraged to fund such projects, it says.

    The release of the development blueprint coincides with the ongoing sessions of the country's top legislature and political advisory body in Beijing.

    Last week, Huang Chunping and Qi Faren, both members of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, said the country would launch a moon orbiter "some time" this year and stage a space walk in 2008.

Yeah, I saw that. HLLVs have been getting more popular over time with some at least.
http://www.directlauncher.com/
http://www.launchcomplexmodels.com/Direct/
http://www.hays.cc/direct/DIRECT_Launch … v1.0.4.pdf
http://www.directlauncher.com/doc/DIREC … v1.0.4.pdf
http://simcosmos.planetaclix.pt/temp/Di … v1.0.4.pdf

Whoop-Dee-Doo, we sent a probe to the Moon made from recycled DOD spare parts on a recycled missile years ago.

That's nice.  And when's the next one?