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#1 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » Today 14:55:33

The ISS has all type of experiments, clarks calamities talk about such events, Plus there is one other that I did but its been quite some time ago. Fire has more than heat to it as ther air is filled with many toxins from out gassing...

"clark's calamity", when bad luck is all you have

Fire on the ISS, lunar base or Mars habitat or domes

Business Opportunity Fire Shelter

the heat of venus is hidden in the clocks or skunk works topic for how to cool

#2 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Methane CH4 vs Carbon Monoxide CO Propellant Competition » 2026-07-12 14:10:29

the issue is that Mars needs energy before we can even think about the above chart.

google AI wrote:

Compressing Martian atmospheric CO₂ (ambient ≈ 0.006 atm) to 5 atmospheres requires ≈ 0.23 to 0.25 kWh of electrical energy per kilogram of gas, depending on your compressor efficiency. Assuming an average Martian density, this means about 4.6 to 5.0 kWh are needed to pressurize 1 m³ of this

compressed gas.
Key Details & Calculations
Input Pressure: ≈ 0.006 atm (610 Pa)Target Pressure: 5 atm (506,625 Pa)Compression Ratio: ≈ 833:1Isothermal Compression Energy: ≈ 0.22 kWh per kilogram (ideal minimum).
Real-World Energy Cost: ≈ 0.25 to 0.30 kWh/kg to account for system losses, cooling, and heat rejection.Related In-Situ Processes

Oxygen Extraction (MOXIE & Plasma): NASA's MOXIE experiment split CO₂ into O₂ and CO, achieving energy costs of roughly 0.19 kWh/g of O₂. Advanced cold-plasma microwave reactors can lower this to ≈ 0.013 to 0.04 kWh/g of O₂.

Liquefaction: If you need to compress CO₂ into a liquid state for propellant (like Methalox fuel) or storage, you need to compress it to roughly 60 atm (870 psi) and cool it below 31° C, which requires roughly 0.4 to 0.5 kWh/kg.

Sabatier Process: If combining this CO₂ with hydrogen to produce methane and water, the exothermic nature of the reaction reduces net power requirements, though it is usually tied to energy-intensive water electrolysis to produce the hydrogen.

Are you planning to use this CO₂ for greenhouse pressurization, propellant manufacturing, or an oxygen generation system (ISRU)? Knowing this will help narrow down the exact reactor footprint and total power generation needed.8 sites

#3 Re: Human Health in Space Travel » This topic is about radiation » 2026-07-10 14:07:00

we have many topics that contain information and its also in the large ship designed system

#4 Re: Human Health in Space Travel » This topic is about radiation » 2026-07-10 14:05:18

GW Johnson wrote:

Spacenut:

Thanks for the google AI results.  Nice to see it back me up.  Although I gave numbers for cosmic ray exposures and for radiation sickness thresholds,  just in the old US units that I knew and understood.

When I said solar particle events were erratic in intensity,  that was based on an old graph I got off a NASA website many years ago.  The highest-intensity events were rare,  but measured in the 10's of thousands of REM accumulated in an hour.  There was one such in 1972,  between Apollo 16 and Apollo 17. 

The weakest events were not the very most common,  measuring in the hundreds of REM per hour.  Most commonly doses outside the spacecraft were in the few hundred to low thousand REM/hour range.  Apollo capsule hulls knocked that down by about a factor of 2.  Which is not enough shielding for a 1000 REM/hr event,  being a fatal dose even inside the capsule,  in only 1 hour's exposure. Bear in mind these events usually last several hours to a day or so.

The Van Allen belts are particles similar to those of solar particle events,  since most come from the sun and get trapped in Earth's magnetic field.  These belts are intense enough to accumulate a lethal dose if you dawdle around transiting the Van Allen belts,  but they are the same lower energy as solar flare particles,  thus fairly easy to shield.

The figure of merit for such shielding I also got from that same old NASA website many years ago.  It was the 15-20 grams of "something" per square centimeter of surface area.  To protect against something like the 1972 event,  20 gram/sq.cm is more effective than 15,  but you will get a dose over a short time interval.  To meet the old exposure standards,  you need enough shielding to hold that flare dose down to 25 REM accumulated in any given month.  Accumulation = dose rate (REM/hr) times exposure time (hours).

GW

#5 Re: Human Health in Space Travel » This topic is about radiation » 2026-07-10 14:05:01

google AI wrote:

Beyond Earth’s protective atmosphere and magnetosphere, space radiation poses a primary hazard to human health. Without these shields, astronauts are constantly bombarded by energetic protons, Solar Particle Events (SPEs), and heavy, fast-moving Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCRs).The ionizing nature of this radiation dislodges electrons and shatters DNA strands as particles penetrate the body's tissues. While human cells have biological mechanisms to repair DNA, heavy cosmic particles can cause complex, double-strand breaks that lead to misrepair.

This accumulation of cellular damage drives severe, long-term health hazards:

Cancer: The mutated or improperly repaired cells can multiply, vastly increasing the lifetime risk of developing various forms of cancer.

Degenerative Diseases: Chronic cellular damage impairs the central nervous system, hindering neurogenesis and contributing to cognitive deficits, memory loss, and accelerated aging at the cellular level.

Acute Damage: Unshielded, extreme Solar Particle Events can overwhelm cellular repair systems, leading to radiation sickness (nausea, fatigue, blood cell depletion).

Tissue Effects: Damage to specific cells is strongly linked to early-onset cataracts, cardiovascular disease, and lowered immune system responses.To mitigate these risks, organizations like NASA study cellular responses on the International Space Station and test countermeasures, such as specialized water or polyethylene shielding, and pharmaceutical interventions.

The issue is that human DNA is damaged through exposure rate and type of which 1 type fits all is not what we can do once we leave earth.

284_2026_4945_Fig1_HTML.png


google AI wrote:

Beyond Earth orbit, spacecraft and astronauts face three primary types of space radiation:

Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCRs), Solar Particle Events (SPEs), and Trapped Radiation (like the Van Allen Belts), all of which lack the natural shielding of Earth's atmosphere and magnetosphere.

Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCRs): Sourced from outside our solar system, these originate from supernova explosions. They consist of highly penetrating, charged particles including high-energy protons (~87%), helium nuclei (~12%), and heavy, high-charge/energy (HZE) ions (~1%). These relativistic heavy ions cause deep, clustered DNA damage and are extremely difficult to shield against.Solar Particle

Events (SPEs): Emitted intermittently by the Sun during solar flares and coronal mass ejections (CMEs), these events consist mainly of high-energy protons. They result in sudden, intense radiation storms that can pose acute health risks.

Trapped Radiation: Also known as the Van Allen radiation belts, these are regions of energetic protons and electrons trapped by a planet's magnetic field. While not in deep interplanetary space, transitioning through these belts during outbound or inbound trajectories requires rapid transit to minimize radiation dose.

#6 Re: Human Health in Space Travel » This topic is about radiation » 2026-07-10 14:04:00

repost to get information into the topic

GW Johnson wrote:

You have to understand,  there are a lot of scientifically-illiterate people "out there".  It goes along with all the other kinds of illiteracy that we all have seen.  Such folk cannot tell lie from truth,  and for many years the lie has been "fatal cosmic radiation". 

Those liars are looking for a scientific-sounding reason not to go out into space,  that's the motivation.  They need one that is not "treatable",  and it is extremely difficult-to-impossible to shield super-high-energy cosmic ray particles.  That's precisely the kind of excuse "not to go" that they are looking for.

They ignore the fact that cosmic ray intensity is entirely non-fatal in its effect,  leading only toward late-in-life cancers,  and even then only when exposed to the very worst intensities!  But the illiterate people they preach to,  cannot absorb that kind of detail.  And THAT is why the liars are still believed,  even after all these years.

They usually also completely ignore the highly-variable solar flare/mass ejection radiation,  which is very directional,  very erratic in intensity,  and very fatal at its larger intensities.  Why do they ignore it?  Because we already understand how to shield against it,  those particles being far lower energy than cosmic ray particles.  It's actually quite similar to nuclear fallout radiation,  which we have known how to shield since about 1945. 

The only "trick" has been figuring out how to do just enough shielding with something lighter than lead.  Turns out 15 grams/sq.cm of "something" might be enough,  and 20 grams/sq.cm of "something" is almost certainly enough,  even for the worst events we have seen. 

That "something" can be almost anything,  and if it is low molecular weight compared to the common metals,  there is very little secondary radiation produced by cosmic rays flying through it.  It would make sense to use as your "something" materials you already must have with you anyway for other reasons,  such as propellants,  food (especially frozen food),  water supplies,  and wastewater treatment volumes. 

There,  I just told you why it is that the radiation naysayers are liars.  Unfortunately,  the truth is beyond an illiterate audience to understand.  And THAT is why this lie-based argument has persisted for decades.

GW

#7 Re: Meta New Mars » OldFart1939 Postings and YouTube Video Presentation(s) » 2026-07-09 15:05:09

AI responses tend to be in metric unless you ask it to convert the information

Its about the energy level as well for the what band we get hit with.

Hence the work I did in the large ships system.

#8 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Money » 2026-07-09 15:01:07

Take away there credit cards....

#9 Re: Meta New Mars » OldFart1939 Postings and YouTube Video Presentation(s) » 2026-07-08 13:56:49

google AI wrote:

Beyond Earth’s protective atmosphere and magnetosphere, space radiation poses a primary hazard to human health. Without these shields, astronauts are constantly bombarded by energetic protons, Solar Particle Events (SPEs), and heavy, fast-moving Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCRs).The ionizing nature of this radiation dislodges electrons and shatters DNA strands as particles penetrate the body's tissues. While human cells have biological mechanisms to repair DNA, heavy cosmic particles can cause complex, double-strand breaks that lead to misrepair.

This accumulation of cellular damage drives severe, long-term health hazards:

Cancer: The mutated or improperly repaired cells can multiply, vastly increasing the lifetime risk of developing various forms of cancer.

Degenerative Diseases: Chronic cellular damage impairs the central nervous system, hindering neurogenesis and contributing to cognitive deficits, memory loss, and accelerated aging at the cellular level.

Acute Damage: Unshielded, extreme Solar Particle Events can overwhelm cellular repair systems, leading to radiation sickness (nausea, fatigue, blood cell depletion).

Tissue Effects: Damage to specific cells is strongly linked to early-onset cataracts, cardiovascular disease, and lowered immune system responses.To mitigate these risks, organizations like NASA study cellular responses on the International Space Station and test countermeasures, such as specialized water or polyethylene shielding, and pharmaceutical interventions.

The issue is that human DNA is damaged through exposure rate and type of which 1 type fits all is not what we can do once we leave earth.

284_2026_4945_Fig1_HTML.png


google AI wrote:

Beyond Earth orbit, spacecraft and astronauts face three primary types of space radiation:

Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCRs), Solar Particle Events (SPEs), and Trapped Radiation (like the Van Allen Belts), all of which lack the natural shielding of Earth's atmosphere and magnetosphere.

Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCRs): Sourced from outside our solar system, these originate from supernova explosions. They consist of highly penetrating, charged particles including high-energy protons (~87%), helium nuclei (~12%), and heavy, high-charge/energy (HZE) ions (~1%). These relativistic heavy ions cause deep, clustered DNA damage and are extremely difficult to shield against.Solar Particle

Events (SPEs): Emitted intermittently by the Sun during solar flares and coronal mass ejections (CMEs), these events consist mainly of high-energy protons. They result in sudden, intense radiation storms that can pose acute health risks.

Trapped Radiation: Also known as the Van Allen radiation belts, these are regions of energetic protons and electrons trapped by a planet's magnetic field. While not in deep interplanetary space, transitioning through these belts during outbound or inbound trajectories requires rapid transit to minimize radiation dose.

#10 Re: Mars Society Chapters » Mars Society Switzerland » 2026-07-08 13:48:10

Nice to see Pierre Brisson on the website link, and we have talked about the mars moons being used as a stepping stone to mars. To which the end goal is not the moons but a means to mars.

#11 Re: Mars Society Chapters » Mars Society Switzerland » 2026-07-06 14:48:25

A quick question response by AI.

Transitioning from 1 G to 0.7 G in manned flight—such as during transit in an artificial gravity spacecraft or on a hypothetical 0.7 G world—creates noticeable but highly manageable physiological and operational changes. The human body handles 0.7 G with far greater ease than microgravity, though it still requires minor adaptations.

Physiological Effects Musculoskeletal System: Because loading is reduced to 70 % of Earth's baseline, bones and muscles do not experience the same mechanical stress as on Earth. This often results in a slight decrease in bone mineral density and anti-gravity muscle mass over long durations, meaning astronauts would likely still need dedicated exercise regimens.

Cardiovascular & Fluid Shift: The body's blood pressure regulatory systems are designed for 1 G. At 0.7 G, the classic headward fluid shifts seen in pure microgravity are mostly mitigated, preventing severe facial edema and cranial pressure changes. Heart workload decreases slightly, which could lead to minor cardiovascular deconditioning over time without activity.

Vestibular & Balance: Alterations in gravity levels can occasionally cause motion sickness or spatial disorientation during the initial transition period. However, the presence of a distinct "downward" vector at 0.7 G drastically improves sensorimotor integration compared to zero G.

Operational & Engineering Impacts
Propulsion & Energy Costs: Generating artificial gravity of 0.7 G often requires a continuously accelerating spacecraft or a massive rotating habitat. Maintaining these forces demands immense fuel and highly efficient engines (e.g., advanced fusion or antimatter drives) over long distances.

Maneuvering & Workload: Everyday tasks, walking, and operating controls become slightly easier and demand less physical energy. This benefits crew endurance during long-term missions, as less fatigue is generated during daily operations.

Sounds like a topic for Human Health in Space Travel

#12 Re: Human Health in Space Travel » The use of hormonal manipulation & prolonged exposure to Microgravity » 2026-07-03 16:46:05

All that Nasa kept is the ISS during the 2010 to today and its following the IL‑6 signaling, NELL‑1 therapeutic protein, and NASA‑STD‑3001 medical countermeasure requirements. Microgravity causes 1–2% bone density loss per month even with exercise.

thumb_1200_1553.png

copilot wrote:

High altitude and microgravity both produce:

Reduced mechanical loading (less ground reaction force; similar to microgravity unloading)

Hypoxia‑driven IL‑6 and HIF‑1α signaling → accelerates bone resorption

Fluid redistribution → similar to ISS headward shift

Endocrine changes → cortisol elevation, altered calcium metabolism

This is why high‑altitude research often informs NASA’s countermeasures.

of course we need to know what is still in between as mars and the moon are just numbers that can not be made linear to the points that we have.

#13 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-07-03 13:00:05

Here it is so lets see the topics for each part of the body that has conditions associated to non earth gravity as that would also include artificial gravity. Human Health in Space Travel new category. which have been within the ISS general topics....plus others with radiation being the number one in just about every place in the forums discussions. such as inter plus planetary transportation, large ships, human ect....

#14 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-07-03 10:39:02

Most topics are past casual discussion due to the more engineering type people we have a forum is not an engineering publishing location, If you want reddit channels gibberish same as facebook stuff. We have a method to do category and topic titling that the owner of creation is the one not putting in any effort to guide. Some information is slow going if you never input anything into the topics, while other are broad on purpose to get others thinking. For how the small slice integrate into the total.

The "Human Health in Space Travel" is already in many of the topics contained in the category of "Human missions" so its covered.

copilot wrote:

Peptide chemistry is the study of how amino acids assemble, fold, react, and can be engineered into functional molecules, while peptide biology examines how those molecules operate inside living systems as hormones, signals, antimicrobials, structural elements, or therapeutic agents. The core idea is that peptides sit at the interface between organic chemistry and molecular biology, combining programmable chemical structure with biologically potent function.

The basis of life and how we evolved and how we still live each day.

structure-of-amino-acids.png

time scale is why its so disconnected from how any are created

So who wants to talk turkey, is just that a discussion about anything...

#15 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-07-02 09:49:59

making a greater number of categories does not resolve the issue you seem to be having. We do not need Category inflation”...

Medical
NewMars is not a medical forum.
Medical posts are rare, usually hypothetical, Mars‑context, or engineering‑adjacent.
Splitting into “diagnostics”, “treatment”, “biology”, “pharma”, “policy”, etc. would create empty rooms.
Medical discussions naturally belong inside mission planning, habitat engineering, or life support threads.

Education
Education posts are even rarer.
They tend to be meta‑discussions about outreach, STEM, or Mars advocacy.
Creating “K‑12”, “university”, “curriculum”, “teacher resources”, etc. is pure category inflation.
Education belongs inside policy, culture, or general discussion.

Our index has these covered:

Education posts: already covered by existing categories
Youth Group / Educational Outreach
Civilization and Culture
Science, Technology, and Astronomy
Space Policy (for political education topics)
Meta New Mars (for forum‑education or community‑education topics)

“medical” threads almost never behave like medical‑science discussions. They behave like:
political arguments about healthcare
social commentary
ethical debates
Mars‑context hypotheticals (crew health, radiation, life support)

Those map directly to existing lanes:
Not So Free Chat → general political/medical rants
Space Policy → Mars‑relevant political/medical policy
Life Support Systems → engineering‑grade medical‑adjacent topics (radiation, nutrition, physiology)
Science, Technology, and Astronomy → biology/medical science when it’s actually scientific

#16 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-06-28 19:39:40

Keyword and or and I recalled it in meta as we talked a out this.

I have  been busy with a fallen tree that cMe down in the middle of my camper and struck the house roof as well.  No one was hurt. Also dealing with mom appendix was leaking surgery today as well.  She is stable after some a fib.

#19 Re: Human missions » Artemis Coverage of Manned Mission(s) » 2026-06-27 18:08:58

NASA walks away from $5.9 billion in Artemis hardware contract after years of delays

AA26GQ4X.img?w=768&h=465&m=6 NASA’s ambitious return to the Moon has entered a new chapter, though not without an extraordinary financial cost. A newly released audit from NASA’s Office of Inspector General (OIG) reveals that hardware originally developed for the Artemis program accumulated $5.9 billion in spending before being canceled as the agency restructured its lunar exploration strategy. The findings illustrate how shifting mission priorities, technical setbacks, and years of schedule delays reshaped one of the world’s most ambitious space programs.

NASA’s New Artemis Strategy Leaves Expensive Hardware Behind
According to NASA, the agency’s revised Artemis architecture fundamentally changes how future lunar missions will be conducted. The restructuring moved the first crewed lunar landing from Artemis III to Artemis IV, eliminated more advanced versions of theSpace Launch System (SLS) rocket, and canceled the planned Gateway space station in lunar orbit in favor of focusing resources on establishing a long-term presence on the lunar surface.

Those decisions immediately left several major projects without a mission despite years of development and billions of dollars already invested. The OIG audit estimates that hardware initially contracted for approximately $2.9 billion ultimately consumed $5.9 billion before work was halted. Among the affected systems are the Exploration Upper Stage (EUS), the Universal Stage Adapter (USA), Mobile Launcher 2 (ML-2), and the HALO habitation module for Gateway. While these cancellations may appear costly, NASA argues that continuing under the previous architecture would likely have resulted in even larger overruns and additional years of delay, making the agency’s revised roadmap a necessary step toward a more sustainable lunar exploration program.
Years Of Delays And Mounting Costs Exposed By The Audit
The audit paints a detailed picture of how multiple flagship Artemis components gradually drifted far beyond their original schedules and budgets. The most prominent example is Boeing’s Exploration Upper Stage, designed to significantly increase the payload capability of future SLS rockets. Initially added to Boeing’s contract in 2017 with a value of $962 million and an expected delivery in March 2021, the project continued slipping year after year. By the time NASA issued its stop-work order in 2026, spending had climbed to nearly $2 billion, while Boeing projected completion costs approaching $3.7 billion. Delivery had slipped roughly seven and a half years beyond the original schedule. The audit notes that shifting NASA priorities, supply chain disruptions, evolving mission requirements, and contractor performance all contributed to the delays. As the memo explains,

“NASA noted significant weaknesses related to EUS production efficiency, including unrealistic production schedules and the lack of a clear plan for improvement,” the memo states.

The findings suggest that technical complexity alone was not responsible for the setbacks, with project management and production planning also playing major roles in extending development far beyond expectations.

AA26Gyjc.img?w=768&h=362&m=6

Even Smaller Artemis Components Became Major Budget Challenges
The audit also highlights how hardware that appeared relatively straightforward evolved into unexpectedly expensive development efforts. One striking example is the Universal Stage Adapter, a conical structure designed to connect the Exploration Upper Stage with the Orion spacecraft while carrying secondary payloads. Originally awarded to Dynetics in 2017 for $131 million, the contract expanded repeatedly as design changes and delays accumulated. By early 2026, NASA had already spent $353 million, while projections suggested final costs could have approached $497 million had development continued through completion.

The OIG summarized the situation by stating, “The USA contract’s cost and schedule estimates grew beyond original estimates due to both NASA directed modifications and Dynetics’ performance issues,” illustrating how both agency decisions and contractor execution combined to drive costs upward. Similar trends appeared with Mobile Launcher 2, the massive launch tower required for future SLS variants. Awarded to Bechtel for $383 million in 2019, projected costs eventually climbed toward $2 billion after repeated redesigns, schedule revisions, and technical challenges. The report concludes,

“Bechtel’s reluctance to utilize NASA expertise, failure to track risks, challenges with managing the launcher’s weight, and lack of a certified earned value management system impacted the contractor’s cost, schedule, and performance,” the report states.

Together, these examples illustrate how even infrastructure projects became increasingly difficult to control under the previous Artemis architecture.

Gateway’s HALO Module Became Another Casualty Of The Redesign
The cancellation of the Gateway lunar outpost also brought an abrupt halt to development of the HALO (Habitation and Logistics Outpost) module. Built by Northrop Grumman with major contributions from Thales Alenia Space, HALO represented one of the central elements of NASA’s original lunar-orbit strategy. The project began under a $187 million contract in 2019, yet successive contract modifications pushed total spending to roughly $1.9 billion before NASA ultimately suspended work. Alongside schedule delays, engineers also discovered widespread corrosion after the module arrived in the United States, adding another layer of complexity to an already troubled project. The OIG argues that pressure to meet aggressive Artemis milestones contributed significantly to the program’s difficulties. As the memo explains,

“Driven by the necessity to meet Artemis launch schedules, the Gateway Program worked toward unrealistic schedules throughout the life cycle of HALO,” OIG’s memo states, and cites a quote from Gateway’s own independent Standing Review Board that says, “lack of schedule realism may be driving suboptimal engineering decisions during development.”

The findings suggest that the desire to maintain ambitious launch timelines may have introduced risks that ultimately complicated engineering, testing, and overall program execution.

NASA Says The New Plan Prioritizes Affordability And Faster Progress
While the audit documents billions of dollars spent on hardware that will never fly in its intended form, NASA maintains that its redesigned Artemis strategy is intended to prevent similar outcomes in the future. Agency officials argue that continuing development under the previous architecture would likely have resulted in even greater expenses while delaying human lunar exploration well into the next decade. In its formal response included with the audit, NASA emphasized that the projections presented by the OIG reflect assumptions based on a program structure that no longer exists. As the agency stated,

“These projections rely on past performance under outdated architectural assumptions that do not reflect the Ignition Day principles of discipline, affordability, simplification, and speed,” NASA’s response says.

The revised approach seeks to simplify mission architecture, reduce dependence on increasingly expensive hardware, and accelerate the path toward returning astronauts to the lunar surface. Whether the restructuring ultimately delivers on those objectives will become clear as Artemis IV, now targeted for 2028, moves closer to launch and begins testing NASA’s new vision for sustained lunar exploration.

#20 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-06-27 15:47:34

quote was given and here is the truth that you cannot get to with your own mind GM Swapped 1,000 Detroit Workers for 50 Robots, Then Cashed a $4.25 Billion Check.https:%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen%2Fthe_auto_wire_articles_747%2F5bb6819f59f3d649a261fd003112a4f3

#21 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-06-27 09:20:23

Research to collaborate the already give in above post.

What the U.S. already offshored (1970s → 2020s)
By the time AI arrived, the U.S. had already moved most low‑margin, labor‑heavy industries overseas:

Clothing & apparel — ~90% imported by 2026.

Electronics assembly — only ~20% domestic retention.

Furniture & home goods — ~75% imported.

Toys, tools, consumer gadgets — overwhelmingly Asia‑based.

Automotive components — partially offshored, though North America retains ~55%.

These shifts were driven by wage differentials, trade liberalization (NAFTA, China PNTR), and corporate incentives to cut labor costs

 
Most of what could be offshored already has been—especially labor‑intensive manufacturing. What remains vulnerable today are advanced electronics, AI hardware, pharmaceuticals, machine tools, and other “strategic” industries that the U.S. still depends on foreign production for. These sectors are now considered national‑security risks because the U.S. imports so much of them.

The short list of remaining vulnerable sectors are not the old factory jobs—they’re the high‑tech, high‑value industries the U.S. still relies on but does not fully control.

1. Semiconductors & AI hardware
The U.S. imports huge volumes of chips, AI servers, and advanced electronics.
2. Pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs)
Many critical drug ingredients are sourced from a handful of foreign suppliers.
3. Machine tools & industrial equipment
The U.S. machine‑tool industry has lost comparative advantage for 15+ years.
4. Advanced electronics & precision components
Smartphones, laptops, rare‑earth magnets, sensors, and high‑precision parts remain heavily foreign‑sourced.

The twist: AI doesn’t offshore factories—it offshores skills which means lower college entrance and reasons to enter these fields:

Engineering
Design
Software
Legal review
Accounting
Customer support
Data analysis

Because AI reduces the skill barrier, companies can move these tasks to lower‑cost countries even more easily.

This is the new offshoring frontier.

You may not like these answers but corporate greed for profits over peoples living conditions with increased regulations, taxation are not slowing the trend

#22 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-06-26 16:30:50

Economics of the 70's through 2000 was all about sending jobs/work which we once did over sea to capture that cheap labor pool in the color categories that fall under pink to under paid. The industries where in shoes, textiles, lumber for paper, electronics in a variety of items, some automotive related replacement parts ect... I am not seeing this trend change anytime soon...

#23 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2026-06-26 14:40:41

FluxBB was quite robust but with there presence gone most have transitioned to phpbb.

SHA1 password problem while migration from FluxBB to phpBB

#24 Re: Not So Free Chat » Disruptions from robotic labor » 2026-06-26 14:34:22

Most of us have lived through some of the changes in jobs and what are the causes to where they have gone.

The terms "white-collar" and "blue-collar" are used to categorize jobs based on the type of work performed, the work environment, and historical distinctions in attire. White-collar roles involve intellectual, administrative, and clerical duties in office settings, whereas blue-collar roles entail physical manual labor or skilled trades.

Evolution and Fading Lines

While these categories were once rigid, the modern job market has become much more fluid:

Part-time service and retail positions (such as grocery store workers, department store associates, and cashiers) are most traditionally associated with pink-collar or blue-collar designations, depending on the focus.

To further categorize modern professions, the market now recognizes pink-collar (traditional service/caregiving jobs like nursing or teaching), and green-collar (jobs in environmental and sustainability fields).

Other Relevant "Collar" Colors

As the economy has evolved, a few other specialized categories have emerged for these types of jobs:Grey-Collar: This color is sometimes applied to retail employees because the job sits in a "gray area". It combines the physical labor of a blue-collar job (moving inventory) with the customer service and digital point-of-sale tech skills of a white-collar job.

No-Collar: This is occasionally used to describe part-time gig-economy workers (like instacart shoppers or independent delivery drivers) who work flexible hours outside of a traditional corporate or union structure.

The term "open-collar" or "no-collar" is sometimes used broadly in academic labor discussions, but the most precise social and economic term for individuals experiencing homelessness and joblessness is the "under-class" or "no-collar."

The Chronically Unemployed: Individuals who are out of work and face severe systemic barriers to re-entering the workforce.The Unhoused / Homeless: Individuals who lack stable housing, which critically disrupts their ability to obtain or maintain traditional "collared" employment

Outside of color designations, social scientists rely on the term under-class. This structural category defines individuals who experience intersecting crises:

Entry level "stepping stone" roles are being backfilled by experienced mid-career professionals and older workers who bring institutional knowledge that AI cannot replicate. This dynamic forces structural displacement downward through several distinct economic pressures

Even with some job skills retraining to keep people the downward settling is on the rise.

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