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#1 2005-08-22 14:16:40

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

*Can't find the old thread via Search.  It's probably 13 pages backlogged already...will start a new one.

Late last week a gallon of regular unleaded averaged $2.37.  Friday night it jumped to $2.49. 

My mother recently traveled to the Peoria, Illinois area; she saw $2.75 per gallon there.

I'm wondering if it's prices going up prior to the Labor Day Holiday, but that's still 2 weeks away. 

Yours?

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#2 2005-08-22 14:51:43

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

It peaked at $2.79 last week, down to $2.55 this weekend and dropping.

I always expected riots if gas ever hit $2.00 a gallon. Detroiters disappoint me.

Of course 50 cents or so of that is taxes. <hint to legislators> and there is a <hint> easy way to really deliver some relief and <listen up incumbents> score some major points with your constituents. Not that I would presume to tell elected officials how to do their jobs. . . wink

So I cut back on food, knowing from experience that I run better without fuel than my car does.  smile


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#3 2005-08-22 17:03:04

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,348

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

People will use less if it costs more which means less reliance on foreign oil. The more gasoline costs, the more attrative hybrid cars become or other alternative fueled vehicles. Mass transit begins to be more attractive too. [shrug]

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#4 2005-08-23 06:03:57

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

People will use less if it costs more which means less reliance on foreign oil.

In theory. In practice it doesn't really work out that way. Most people have to expend a certain amount of gas to get to and from work everyday, carpooling and other such things are often impractical. So for most people the major fuel usage can't be curtailed. Some recreational use is unavoidable, people aren't going to sit at home just to save gas and the economy would suffer greatly if they did.

Hybrid cars will be more attractive when they are in the same price range as a comparable non-hybrid vehicle, and then only for those who can afford to buy a new car. Most other alternative fuel sources are either not ready for market (Hydrogen fuel cells) or are largely hype (ethanol). Mass transit requires either increased taxation, which is impractical if people are already paying out the ass for gasoline, or cutting other government expenses which leads to all sorts of political chaos.

So really the only short-term solution is cut gas taxes, standardized environmental requirements for fuel across the country instead of the current patchwork, and reactivate some of the drilling rigs and refineries currently shut down for economic or enviromental reasons. When oil is $60 a barrel all sorts of things become practical that weren't at $30 a barrel.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#5 2005-08-23 06:59:13

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,348

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

So don't do anything to upset the apple cart. People will not change behavior unless they are motivated directly to do so. New methods or solutions will not be devised until neccessity requires it.

It will be painful, but then most change always is.

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#6 2005-08-23 07:09:09

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

So don't do anything to upset the apple cart. People will not change behavior unless they are motivated directly to do so. New methods or solutions will not be devised until neccessity requires it.

It will be painful, but then most change always is.

The question is what is the underlying goal of change. If it's to use less petroleum-based fuel you've got a point. However if it's to reduce dependence on foreign oil or alleviate high fuel prices you're off base.

Increasing gas prices don't really solve anything themselves. We just pay more for foreign oil, use almost as much regardless and have that much less to spend for alternatives. When people are paying five bucks a gallon no politician that ever lived can convince them to pay even more to build a mass transit system on the grounds that it will save them money in the long run.

Until alternatives become viable, we're left with increasing production of hybrid vehicles and increasing domestic drilling. Either that, or rationing and the tanking economy that would result.

Hybrid cars, go nuclear for municipal power, we'd be saving a buttload of oil right there. Domestically produce the remainder and we're set. We can cut off the Saudi's in short order if we so choose.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#7 2005-08-23 07:10:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,747

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Have seen the gas price fluctuate as much as 20 cents over the last months time frame.

If you can not buy new then the only choice is to buy used and take your chances that the vehicle was well maintained.

My current transportational needs now equals 10% of my weekly wage and I fear
the cost of home heating oil is going mean some cold nights ahead. Not to meantion that the cost of electricity is out of sight already and that everything else is on the rise as well.

There are two parts to the gas tax, state or some what local and the other is federal. Lowering either would only make other state taxes go up on other things or lead to income taxes to be leived at a higher level. This also would happen to all those supposed tax breaks by the federal government for the IRS income tax as well.

If state laws were not so strict for turnpike use of experimental vehicles and of bicycles. Then I would be trying to do either to help my own situation.

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#8 2005-08-23 07:20:53

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

There are two parts to the gas tax, state or some what local and the other is federal. Lowering either would only make other state taxes go up on other things or lead to income taxes to be leived at a higher level. This also would happen to all those supposed tax breaks by the federal government for the IRS income tax as well.

Here in Michigan we have three taxes on gas, some localities add a fourth. A federal excise tax, a state excise tax (for road maintenance) and state sales tax. Interestingly, the sales tax is added after the federal tax, so we're being taxed for paying a tax!

Since the Department of Transportation here is either horribly incompetent our outright corrupt, we can cut them down by reducing the state tax for a year or two with no ill effect. Our roads can't get much worse and less construction would actually be an improvement. The revenue from that tax is only for road use, is not part of the general fund and therefore wouldn't effect any other state tax directly.

But then the idea that one tax being reduced automatically means other increase is the wrong way of looking at the issue. It's a zero-sum way of thinking that just isn't right. In many cases lower taxes lead to increased revenue, make the tax too much higher and it discourages people from using the prodcut or service, decreasing revenue.

So again, if the intent is simply to discourage people from using gas by all means keep up the tax rates. But it's bad for the state economy, bad for the state government and irritates the hell out of the populace.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#9 2005-08-23 08:28:46

C M Edwards
Member
From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,012

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Down here, our governor and legislature were publicly praising of the state gasoline tax last year.  It kept the state's coffers full, bringing in fondly greeted revenue for yet another state budget surplus.  We officially adore higher gas prices here in the great state of Louisiana.

After that announcement, the governor ran back to the capital in an effort to get the legislature to promote liquid methane terminals, solar power, hybrid vehicles, fluidized bed coal furnaces, carpooling, kids on ergonometers and any other gasoline conservation measure she could think of as fast as she could think of it. 

Somehow, I don't think the folks over at the capital are expecting the gas tax windfall to last...


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#10 2005-08-23 09:41:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,747

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

I am sure many of these same discusions went on in the peak oil thread in this area and under the human I do recall another attempt to renew this very discusion.

I recently read that much of Europe is already paying $6.00 and more a gallon.

How has this affected those on this board from there respective nations?
What have you changed to get by with this rising cost?

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#11 2005-08-23 12:47:56

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,667

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Belgium: 1.40 Euro per liter. (gasoline)

And ten percent down re: consumption of gasoline compared to last year.

So, that's 5,3 Euro/gallon

or  6,466 Dollar/gallon!

What have you changed to get by with this rising cost?

Nothin. Don't need a car. Bus/train two shoes are plenty to get me anywhere.

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#12 2005-08-23 12:54:20

BWhite
Member
From: Chicago, Illinois
Registered: 2004-06-16
Posts: 2,635

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

I recently read that much of Europe is already paying $6.00 and more a gallon. How has this affected those on this board from there respective nations? What have you changed to get by with this rising cost?

Remember that there are driveways in Texas that are longer than some highways in Europe.

A short American driveway.


Give someone a sufficient why and they can endure just about any how

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#13 2005-08-23 13:55:16

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

It peaked at $2.79 last week, down to $2.55 this weekend and dropping.

*I'm glad...but how can that be? 

Rising gasoline prices & increase in theft

Every gasoline station that I know of anywhere operates on a pre-pay basis. 

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#14 2005-08-23 14:09:34

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

*I'm glad...but how can that be?

Going back up again. 2.59-2.61 range today.

Most of the gas stations here only have pre-pay at night and/or at the pumps closest to the road and therefore easiest to zip away from.

As the article touched on, they're reluctant to go pre-pay because fewer people go inside and buy other stuff. Everytime I'm at a pre-pay gas station I don't know exactly how much it'll take so I can't give exact change yet still want to fill it, so I charge it. You can do that from the pump, no need to go inside, no Coke and chips, no donuts, no profit for the owner. Plus they have to pay the service charge.

That, and when you prepay that last buck fifty takes forever.  :evil:

So long story short you can still steal gas in Detroit, though outright robbing the stations still seems to be more popular.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#15 2005-08-23 14:57:22

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,348

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Two states in the Union require that attendents do the pumping. Oregon, and New Jersey.

So silly.

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#16 2005-08-23 19:02:18

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

*I'm glad...but how can that be?

Going back up again. 2.59-2.61 range today.

Most of the gas stations here only have pre-pay at night and/or at the pumps closest to the road and therefore easiest to zip away from.

As the article touched on, they're reluctant to go pre-pay because fewer people go inside and buy other stuff. Everytime I'm at a pre-pay gas station I don't know exactly how much it'll take so I can't give exact change yet still want to fill it, so I charge it. You can do that from the pump, no need to go inside, no Coke and chips, no donuts, no profit for the owner. Plus they have to pay the service charge.

*It used to be that way around here:  Only the pumps nearest the road need prepay.  Now it's every island.  But of course the weather here is usually very nice and often warm/hot/sunny/dry -- so people will want to go in to purchase a soda, chocolate milk and a snack to go with it.  But in your area and the Midwest, I well recall having to pay inside because you couldn't pay at the pump; no credit/debit option.  Dashing in through rain showers, snow showers, slipping and sliding around on the ice...  roll 

It seems to work out fine here.  I've noticed most folks will sashay in for sodas/snacks even if they've paid at the pump.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#17 2005-08-24 05:08:39

srmeaney
Member
From: 18 tiwi gdns rd, TIWI NT 0810
Registered: 2005-03-18
Posts: 976

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

And when they are done subsidising Oil bound for US Markets, it will be around twice that. Saudia Arabia will be selling its oil to China...


I guess Venezuela can look forward to an Invasion by Oil starved USA.



Good time for Private sector to bring out the Oil Cracking Plant Equivelent of Home Brew. "Pay a dollar a Gallon for your own oil, Make your own Petrol"

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#18 2005-08-24 05:50:49

srmeaney
Member
From: 18 tiwi gdns rd, TIWI NT 0810
Registered: 2005-03-18
Posts: 976

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/artic … &bg=1&pp=0

Just in time to abandon petroleum and hybrid automobiles.

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#19 2005-08-24 08:50:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,747

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Nice article but even thou it is battery powered the amount of energy need to get from place to place still comes from fossil fuel comsumption at the power plant.
Does not give an actual comparison to gas mileage to recharging costs. Sounds go on the speed but the cost means not many will ever be able to buy one. I know that I can not afford new vehicles and use it is around the cost of a new Yugo $4,000 it will not be happeneing soon for me.

Nothin. Don't need a car. Bus/train two shoes are plenty to get me anywhere.

Well the highways are restricted to pedestrian traffic and there are no trains any longer in the area to which I live. Bus route thou fairly inexpensive does not come close to my home and soes not give convient times to make them work for going to or from work.
I live convient to stores and fuel all within 4 or 5 miles but work comute is 35 miles. I probably average about 100 miles daily for all activities. Making cars a necessity for daily living. Have had the exception to car use in sharing rides and even thumbing a rides to work but that is usually when it is not running.

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#20 2005-08-24 19:15:27

Earthfirst
Member
From: Phoenix Arizona
Registered: 2002-09-25
Posts: 343

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

In Needles Cal it was $3.30 a gallon. In Bear river it was $2.00 a gallon.


I love plants!

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#21 2005-08-24 19:47:54

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

*El Paso, Texas city commissioners just passed a law requiring all service-station pumps be made pre-pay.  A previous measure (can't recall what exactly) in 2003 cut the drive-off rate by 50%.  The city hopes to slash that rate even further.  The cops don't have the time/wherewithal to proactively monitor compliance and of course when the first "drive-off" call comes in they can simply record it and ask they owner why they're not in compliance with the new ordinance (your own fault).  tongue 

Last year EP had 1500 drive-offs.  Hopefully they'll have success with the new measure.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#22 2005-08-25 05:09:48

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

*El Paso, Texas city commissioners just passed a law requiring all service-station pumps be made pre-pay. A previous measure (can't recall what exactly) in 2003 cut the drive-off rate by 50%.

The downside of course is that if mandated prepay significantly cuts down on other purchases the stations will have to increase prices to remain profitable, thus costing the average consumer more money.

Government, inadvertantly screwing the little guy.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#23 2005-08-25 05:26:18

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

*El Paso, Texas city commissioners just passed a law requiring all service-station pumps be made pre-pay. A previous measure (can't recall what exactly) in 2003 cut the drive-off rate by 50%.

The downside of course is that if mandated prepay significantly cuts down on other purchases the stations will have to increase prices to remain profitable, thus costing the average consumer more money.

Government, inadvertantly screwing the little guy.

*Yeah.  But if enough people continue stealing gas (non-prepay), won't the stations have to increase prices as well to remain profitable?  Taxpayers always "have to" absorb the cost one way or another, don't we?  sad  It's hopeless.

The rich won't help out, the poor can't...mostly we have taxpayer-class assholes to thank for a lot of these messes; and the honest taxpayers ultimately pay the price in some form. 

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#24 2005-08-25 05:42:05

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

*Yeah. But if enough people continue stealing gas (non-prepay), won't the stations have to increase prices as well to remain profitable? Taxpayers always "have to" absorb the cost one way or another, don't we?  It's hopeless.

Yeah, there's no perfect answer. But if individuals stealing gas cost less than government imposed mandates then we're better off with the small time thieves.

As opposed to the big time thieves in office.

$2.45


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#25 2005-08-25 05:42:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,747

Re: Current Gasoline/Petrol Price$

Was at a station yesterday morning when a drive off occurred($50 in gas), was inside the mart getting a coffee for the mornings ride in to work. Even with the security camera's it was unlikely to have gotten a clear view of the license plate for later involvement of the law since it was the second one in from that side.

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