Chinese Space Program? - What if they get there first

EuroLauncher · 2007-03-13 01:09:36

Chinese space program shoots for the moon

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world … 97&k=74515

Chang'e 1: Lunar orbiting probe launch planned for April

GCNRevenger · 2007-03-13 08:13:14

Whoop-Dee-Doo, we sent a probe to the Moon made from recycled DOD spare parts on a recycled missile years ago.

C M Edwards · 2007-03-13 11:10:59

Whoop-Dee-Doo, we sent a probe to the Moon made from recycled DOD spare parts on a recycled missile years ago.

That's nice. And when's the next one?

EuroLauncher · 2007-03-13 14:54:49

Whoop-Dee-Doo, we sent a probe to the Moon made from recycled DOD spare parts on a recycled missile years ago.

Its funny because :
one day GCNR you're acting like a Sinophobe saying the sky is falling and we better not ever support anything the nasty Chicoms do because if we do they might beat us to Mars.

Then the next days GCNR starts singing a different tune and he's all :
oh those Chinamen are stupid anyway with their Walmart style rocket, doing stuff America already did in the 60s while remarking that nations like India plus Pakistan and Israel can easily put the PRC's space program to shame.

Which is it GCNR ? Is the Chinese program a possible competitor with a great agency like NASA or is the Chinese program just totally worthless.
Make up your damn mind !!

That's nice. And when's the next one?

Ask Congress
Of course the US triumphed with Apollo by landing America's wonderful astronauts on the Moon but when it comes to robotic exploration the US missions have been quiet limited, they launched many fly-bys and orbiters but never bothered much with robotic landers or a worthwhile robotic survey of the Moon's surface. They have now planned a new mission in 08 called LRO.
cIclops has a thread here
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4319
the mission looks worthwhile but as per usual funding may become an issue.

GCNRevenger · 2007-03-13 18:32:23

What are you smoking? I've had a dim view of the Chinese space program since it was started.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-03-19 03:14:17

I see GCNRevenger is trolling again
oh yes and Gas Core Nuke Rocket and Elon Musk will have us to Alpha Centauri by 2030, just 10 years after GW has his first Lunar city named after him.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-03-29 05:32:23

China will launch a joint mission with Russia to Mars in 2009, marking "an important milestone" in space cooperation between the two countries.

China and Russia plan Mars mission

cIclops · 2007-04-02 10:43:44

China Develops Rover for Mission to Moon

By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writer
Monday, April 2, 2007
(04-02) 02:14 PDT SHANGHAI, China (AP) --
Scientists in Shanghai are developing a nuclear-powered lunar rover for the country's first unmanned mission to the moon in 2012, newspapers reported Monday.
The six-wheeled vehicle has been under development for four years at the Shanghai Aerospace System Engineering Institute, where a laboratory has been outfitted to replicate the lunar surface, the Shanghai Daily reported.
The 5-foot-high, 440-pound rover is designed to transmit video in real time, dig for and analyze soil samples, and produce three dimensional images of the lunar surface, the paper said.
In photographs, the rover appeared similar to NASA's unmanned Spirit and Opportunity Mars explorers that were launched in 2003 and are still operating.
However, unlike the rechargeable lithium ion batteries used by those rovers, the Chinese model will eventually run on a nuclear power source to ensure a constant energy supply, the report said.
With an average speed of 328 feet per hour, it can negotiate inclines and has automatic sensors to prevent it from crashing into other objects, the report said.
Researchers were still refining its ability to handle low gravity, exposure to cosmic rays and temperature extremes, and plan to build an even more sophisticated laboratory to mimic those conditions, the newspaper said.
No figures were given for the cost of the rover program. A man who answered the phone at the institute's main number said it had a policy of not accepting media interviews.
China's sprawling military-linked space program that has sent two manned missions into space, with a third manned space mission scheduled for next year that will reportedly include the country's first spacewalk.
China plans to send an unmanned ship to orbit the moon this year, the first step in its three-stage lunar exploration project. An unmanned mission to land on the moon is next and a manned lunar voyage is planned for some time after 2017.

GCNRevenger · 2007-04-02 16:49:28

*cough* Note that they did not say manned Lunar voyage to the surface. They mean around the Moon.

cIclops · 2007-04-02 22:15:17

It's ambiguous and interesting. Besides NASA, CNSA is currently the only other space agency that seems interested in sending people anywhere near the Moon.

SpaceNut · 2007-04-03 06:58:31

Seems a little more real with this

Engineers unveil China moon rover

GCNRevenger · 2007-04-03 20:40:23

Uhhh?

NASA MER mockup?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-04-04 09:24:52

NASA MER mockup?

You speak as if NASA had INVENTED and put a COPYRIGHT on the Rover

GCNR, let me give you some Soviet re-education on another of Russia's firsts

http://encarta.msn.com/media_461574218_ … Rover.html

dicktice · 2007-04-04 11:01:49

*cough* Note that they did not say manned Lunar voyage to the surface. They mean around the Moon.

You really ought to do something about that cough, mister....

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2007-04-04 17:27:22

The USA has already put people on the moon so no matter what happens the Chinese program, China will be getting there second.

but if the USA can't get itself together under the vision delivered by George Bush 43rd President, then it is their own fault not China's. :!:

The good news for you people that get so hysterical against communism and anti-Chinese is that there is no way China will be putting people on Mars tomorrow, next week or next month. but who knows what the future will bring us ?
Perhaps a real red-planet :twisted:

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-05-22 14:03:48

I think people are riding in prejudice here. Why should anyone be worried that China or a country from the Axis of Evil wants to go to space? You should be happy, The Europeans/Russians and the americans had their chance. Now let the others join the party.
Also remember competition is good for technology. Sputnik forced the americans to get off there ass and beat the "commies".

China space visionaries have Mars in game plan

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article … 316758.htm
...The probe, which is temporarily called Yinghuo I, weighs 110 kilograms and resembles a typical weather orbiter, with two solar panels at both sides of a cubic module.
Yinghuo in Chinese characters is related to glow worm, but China plans to collect more names from the public before naming it formally.
The development of the orbiter began in late 2006 and the prototype is scheduled for completion by April of 2008.
The launch-ready orbiter will be completed by June of 2009, just four months before it will be launched by a Russian Soyuz-2 Rocket, which will also carry Russia's unmanned Mars rover Phobos-Grunt....

....
Researchers of the spaceflight academy said China's cooperation with Russia will greatly speed up its Mars exploration.
Chinese rockets are not powerful enough to send their orbiters to Mars at present.
But it plans to develop a Mars-capable rocket, codenamed Long March V, over the next 10 years, insiders said.
China is also building a new launch pad on Hainan Island, in a similar latitude to United States space headquarters in Cape Canaveral, Florida.
The island location will make it much easier to take the massive rockets to the launch pad by sea.

publiusr · 2007-06-23 12:55:32

Long March V!

Any info?

EuroLauncher · 2007-06-27 12:48:52

Long March V!
Any info?

China Plans a New Generation of Rockets
http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xht … 2002926CSC

cIclops posted a thread on a joint Chinese-Russian mission

Phobos Grunt
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4957

SpaceNut · 2007-08-10 08:52:10

China to map ‘every inch’ of moon surface; Plans to launch “Chang’e One” lunar orbiter later this year

China, which plans to launch a lunar orbiter called ”Chang’e One” in the second half of 2007 to take 3D images, would aim to land an unmanned vehicle on its surface by 2010, official news portal Chinanews.com quoted Ouyang Ziyuan as saying.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2007-10-07 02:56:55

NASA: China May Win New Space Race

"I personally believe that China will be back on the moon before we are,'' NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said in a low-key lecture in Washington two weeks ago, marking the space agency's 50th anniversary, still a year away.
"I think when that happens, Americans will not like it. But they will just have to not like it.''
Griffin's candor startled many in the space community, but insiders acknowledge the reality. China has pulled off two manned spaceflights with its own rockets and is eager to head for the moon.
NASA has a 2020 deadline for returning Americans to the moon. China would like to beat that.

Tom Kalbfus · 2007-10-07 11:01:21

NASA: China May Win New Space Race
"I personally believe that China will be back on the moon before we are,'' NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said in a low-key lecture in Washington two weeks ago, marking the space agency's 50th anniversary, still a year away.
"I think when that happens, Americans will not like it. But they will just have to not like it.''
Griffin's candor startled many in the space community, but insiders acknowledge the reality. China has pulled off two manned spaceflights with its own rockets and is eager to head for the moon.
NASA has a 2020 deadline for returning Americans to the moon. China would like to beat that.

We can get ourselves a new NASA administrator and a New Congress, if that happens.

There is absolutely no excuse for our being beaten in anything by a dictator! If it happens then someone in charge should be sacked for it! No excuses! None! Zip! Nada!

Democracy's future is in space, if the people in charge let the dictators get there first, then that is a betrayal of democracy! Too many people think that a dictator is just another form of government, and they can't tell the difference between a government serving the people and people being forced to serve the government. To them is government smovernment.

It is just a matter of principle with me that I don't believe in the greatest most powerful democracy in the world simply throwing a race, just to launch a few more shuttles. I don't believe in losing wars or space races when we can win them.

samy · 2007-10-07 13:58:31

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this happen.

Democracies, pretty much by definition, implement change slower than dictatorships. Democracies are always about the majority opinion, and the majority opinion *rarely* wants anything radical. We can easily see that in the lack of majority support in the Western countries for the space race. People just don't want anything radical, and the government will have to reflect that.

Conversely, a dictatorship, if they decide they want to go to the moon, they can devote their entire nation's infrastructure to making that happen. They don't need to give a crap about what the people want, they just fulfill the dictator's whims.

It strikes me as obvious that a dictatorship should be more able to pursue the space race than a democracy, since they don't have to be hampered by pleasing public opinion.

You can get yourself new NASA administrators and new congresses ten times over, a hundred times over, a thousand times over if you like, but no administrator and no congress is going to be able to match the sheer singlemindedness that a dictator can put into pursuing a goal. It doesn't matter who are on those seats, they'll always lose to a dictatorship, if the dictatorship chooses to pursue the race.

Tom Kalbfus · 2007-10-08 03:45:25

Except countries run by dictators are typically poor, either because the dictators make their countries poor, or the poor people of that country are too stupid to protect their civil rights and let their country's democracy fall to a dictator. In either case a dictatorship indicates that a country is backwards or less advanced in some respect.

If you look at the Democratic World and compare it to the Undemocratic World, you find that the Democratic World has more resources to spend than the Undemocrats. If an undemocratic country ever gets the lead over the democratic world, it is a sign that the people of the democratic world are being lazy to let this happen.

Also there are people in the United States who favor undemocratic countries over their own. There are Americans who favor Hugo Chavez, and Castro, yet they don't move to their countries and live under their rule, they like being Americans, but they don't want America to win. Now what I don't like is what Griffin is saying about our throwing in the towel years before China even has a chance to send people to the Moon. I don't like having people working in our government that bow to China! Their attitude should be, "We're in danger of being beaten by China if we don't do something about it, so lets do something about it!" rather than, "We may be beaten by China, and I don't care, so if you don't like it, Tough, you'll just have to not like it." I don't particularly like Americans without a compedative spirit who liked being walked all over by foreign countries. If we don't have a NASA Administrator who is a patriot and who wants his country to win, then its time to get another NASA Administrator. I'm tired of having people in our government who don't give a damn about their country and only want the power of the office they seek, rather than have that power to advance the cause of their country.

I don't blame the Chinese for wanting to go to the Moon, what I don't understand are the Americans who would let that happen without putting up a fight, or giving the Chinese at least a run for their money. I don't see any advantages in going slow or taking generations to do things that should only take years, the Shuttle, it seems did very little good, it was the slow approach to going into space, and I don't see how we are better off for it, it certainly hasn't made it any easier for us to get to the Moon, since were talking about going their by 2020.

samy · 2007-10-08 05:06:03

what I don't understand are the Americans who would let that happen without putting up a fight, or giving the Chinese at least a run for their money.

Quite bluntly, I'm guessing 95% of Americans couldn't give two craps about who goes to the moon. Their feeling is, "why should we waste money on a race that produces nothing useful?"

Now, I don't feel that way myself. But I can understand the Americans that *do* feel that way. I wish they didn't, but there's little I can do to change it.

Just like there's little Griffin can do to change the fact that China's got a very good chance of beating out the US or Europe or Japan to the moon.

Sometimes, you just gotta live with reality.

Tom Kalbfus · 2007-10-08 10:31:09

what I don't understand are the Americans who would let that happen without putting up a fight, or giving the Chinese at least a run for their money.
Quite bluntly, I'm guessing 95% of Americans couldn't give two craps about who goes to the moon. Their feeling is, "why should we waste money on a race that produces nothing useful?"

That presupposes that it produces nothing useful. Americans made a 12 year effort to get to the Moon first and all the sudden they got gun shy, and then threw away their advantage they had over other nations, I've kind of suspected radical "Hate America/Self-hating American" hippies for this, they did after all want America to lose the Vietnam War, and now they want America to lose the Space Race to a third World Country to rub in the humiliation. I'm beginning to think that we'd have to dump the liberal population centers in this country to have a chance at winning the Space Race. One possible start would be for the United States to make a land donation to the United Nations, that would be all of New York City, they could rename it United Nations City, and that donation would shift the political balance of the Unted States toward the Conservative column as 8 million people became "United Nations Citizens". The Next donations would be San Francisco and Los Angeles to Mexico, since those centers are big places where "self-hating" Americans live. I've heard that the San Franciscans raised serious objections to hosting a World War II Battleship memorial in their city, as far as I'm concerned, if they don't like the United States they can become Mexicans for all I care, probably those two cities combined would account for another 8 million. I think the biggest obstacle for getting to the Moon first is a large population of Americans who hate themselves as Americans and want their country to lose out to a foreign power. Now if China colonizes the choice spots of the Solar System, where does that leave us, now being a One-Party dictatorship, China can't be the leader of the Free World, so if the United States fails then the whole world suffers as more and more of the Solar System becomes Chinese, and the ideal of democracy falls by the wayside, subordinate to "Emperor worship" and their own flavor of Imperialism where everyone bows to the "Chinese thrown" even though the pretend to have a election every once in a while where voters get to vote for party-approved candidates, and just watch as the Chinese spread their One-Party system to the rest of the Solar System. You mean all these indefferent Americans don't mind learning how to bow to their "Chinese betters"? What did all our founding fathers fight for, so we can bow to a "Chinese Emperor" after rejecting the British one? Yes, China basically is still and Empire, it is organized differently from previous traditional Chinese Emperors, and the Emperor goes by the title of "Premier" but he is still and Emperor in that he does whatever he wants and the people may like him or hate him, but they can't do a damn thing about him as we saw in Tianemin Square. I remember when those Chinese soldiers mowed down those democracy demonstrators, now liberals who don't care seem to want this system of government to become predominant all over Earth and to plant roots all over the Solar System without America challenging them. Yeah, the couldn't give a shug so long as they have welfare and government tells them precisely what to do and how to live while taking a generous helping of their incomes.

Now, I don't feel that way myself. But I can understand the Americans that *do* feel that way. I wish they didn't, but there's little I can do to change it.

If you don't try, you certainly can't change their minds, and that's the problem with Michael Griffen, instead of resigning his country to its fate, he should be fighting it out to his last breath. We have a chance to beat the Chinese now, they haven't beaten us economically yet, they will eventually if trends continue, but we can plant our seeds of influence throughout the Solar System before the Chinese Political system predominates over the American one. Being number one in Space Exploration is a form of soft-power that is much bandied about by so many liberal groups, yet they won't support this example, they'd rather we talk to terrorist groups and grant concessions to them. I don't think being seen as "weak and feckless" is a form of "Soft Power" that we can exploit to our advantage. If we show ourselves as second rate to the Chinese and have this colonize the Moon while we shrug our shoulders and say to ourselves that we don't give a damn anyway, then the rest of the World won't take us seriously, nor will they seriously as well consider out political system. People will say, "Why not give the one party system a try, look how well it has done for the Chinese? The are the number one country in the Solar System with colonies all over the place after all."

The Cold War was primarily an ideological war about two competing ideas, it seems to be that the Cold War hasn't really ended. The Old Model of Soviet Socialism has imploded, but the new Chinese model still challenges our cherished notions of democracy, they've dumped all the rhetoric about people power while carefully maintianing their levers of power. The Socialist movement was originally an outgrowth of the Democracy movement, and those people who hated democracy and wanted to rule over other people have carefully exploited it, and primised redistribution of wealth in exchange for citizens slowly giving up their right to choose their own government in deference to them. A million and one excuses were given by the socialist leaders about while giving up ones rights of property and free speech were necessary to protect them from the "evil capitalist" who could so celverly manipulate the system that keeps them in power, in the end when they became so entrenched, the Chinese socialists even gave up the veneer of socialism and equality when they realized that Capitalism was so much more efficient and that raw Capitalism could bring more power to themselves, so long as they carefully kept those socialist levers of power that kept them in office.

Just like there's little Griffin can do to change the fact that China's got a very good chance of beating out the US or Europe or Japan to the moon.

He could try to fight it out like Zubrin is doing rather than just give up and yeild to what he supposedly considers is "inevitable". When people don't try, they never know what they might have accomplished. I'd feel better about losing the space race to the Chinese if we fought it out with them "tooth and nail" rather than just giving up and bowing to them as our NASA Administator seems inclined to do. He chould be constantly badgering the Congress about more funds and warning them about Chinese supreamacy in space rather than keeping so low key about it.

Sometimes, you just gotta live with reality.

But its not a reality yet, what is the point in living if people aren't willing to fight for what they believe in? I don't belive in quitting, the trick is to convince other people to give it one last good fight for the United States of America, there are ideas in the American way of life that are worth preserving, and I don't want those ideas to drown in the Chinese cultural tide, and have everybody learn Chinese and adopt Chinese ideas and way of life, including their One-Party political system and their abandonment of individual rights. If the American idea is to have a future, we must expand into space, otherwise we'll go the way of the Romans and a new age of Empires will dawn.

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