Quadracycles

Josh Cryer · 2005-10-19 21:20:27

Quadracycles are great! I've been reading a lot about them since bicycles were mentioned in the Suicide mission thread, I couldn't help but keep looking. My orignal idea for that thread was that transportation wouldn't be necessary. But a nice light (60 lb) quadracycle is definitely within the realm of possilbity! It just makes sense.

Here's a site with a nice mountian biking quadracycle just to give you an idea: http://www.crank-it.com/

One for Mars would probably have to be a little wider to accomodate a space suit, and we'd want to make it out of very light composites (even though on Mars gravity is a lot less than here, that 60lb quadracycle would only be 22lbs on Mars), you can never be too light. One of the images on the page I listed also has a nice carrier thingy, that could go nicely with a Martian quadracycle.

I would weigh less than 150 lbs on Mars with that quadracycle and a space suit. Using composites or light metals (like a titanium alloy) would bring it down to something like 125 lbs.

I used to bike ten miles a night in hilly terrain here, if we landed in a relatively flat area of Mars (and we would, most likely), I would be able to probably go at least one and a half times that (15 miles) without really getting tired. And I was out of shape when I was biking. So we theoretically, just my guess, have a 50 mile or so range vehicle at our fingertips, assuming good terrain.

noosfractal · 2005-10-20 00:02:57

Actually, there's a good thread on this started by Rxke ...

Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!

I think the consensus was that the suit would be a problem for bike riding.

.

Dook · 2005-10-21 18:06:13

Not to mention the fact that most of the martian surface is either deep powder or large boulders.

Austin Stanley · 2005-10-25 18:02:34

While there may be some serious problems with a human powered bike, a 4-wheeler of some sort is not a bad idea. Give it big-thick tires and an engine with a lot of torque and you have an excellent multi-purpouse vehicle for simple tasks around the base, such as minor road clearing and carring/towing people and stuff around. Given that a well developed Mars base may be several kilometers in size. With it's various facilities wiedly seperated from each other (like the spaceport, habs, powerplant, and chemical processing facilities) such a vehicle may be a necessity. The question in my mind is if such a vehicle (and the suiting up it requires) would be a better solution than just using a traditional rover which might allow a shirt-sleaves enviroment. The 4-wheeler will probably mass less and be more efficent, but it might not be as safe and is an added complication.

quasar777 · 2005-11-22 14:42:00

i think i mention this in the other thread. in my opinion 3 wheels are better as there is less contact w/ the ground. it`s really quite interesting that 3 wheeled atv`s were banned several years ago. i guess what happened is that kids tended to raise hell with em. i find it amazing no one thought of a simple solution to the problem. make it a chopper.

John Creighton · 2005-11-27 19:40:41

i think i mention this in the other thread. in my opinion 3 wheels are better as there is less contact w/ the ground. it`s really quite interesting that 3 wheeled atv`s were banned several years ago. i guess what happened is that kids tended to raise hell with em. i find it amazing no one thought of a simple solution to the problem. make it a chopper.

I thought 3 wheel atv's rolled easier.

C M Edwards · 2005-11-28 08:19:14

I thought 3 wheel atv's rolled easier.

Yes, the kill rate for three wheelers was particularly high. I've never spoken with a hunter who didn't prefer the 4-wheeled ATV's over 3-wheelers. They tend to be more stable, handle rougher terrain, and haul more. Their greater weight makes them a better workhorse vehicle, too. (You can't put a winch on a 3-wheeler.)

There's no reason some of those advantages wouldn't carry over to a pedal powered bike.

publiusr · 2005-12-02 12:50:46

:twisted: I was kinda hoping for this:
http://www.kustombiker.com/about.asp

John Creighton · 2005-12-03 17:28:39

:twisted: I was kinda hoping for this:
http://www.kustombiker.com/about.asp

They look really cool but with the wheel in that position do they ride well?

quasar777 · 2005-12-06 15:14:52

chopper 3wheeled atv`s were around long before unchopped ones. dunno how many deaths were associated with em. imho 3wheelers are less maintainence too. not exactly sure about the winch. CM, how do you mean about no winch? not enough weigh on the front? no axle?

SpaceNut · 2005-12-06 15:32:15

No winch on the front since there is no frame to attach it to that does not move is what C M Edwards is getting at.

3 wheel choppers have there center of gravity in a different spot as compared to the 3 wheeled ATV's so that does change the roll over aspect of the comparison.

On a planet with less gravity it will require more contact surface to not allow for slippage usless you make the vehicle heavier than it needs to be. That is why more wheels are better.

Commodore · 2005-12-06 19:00:53

Would such repetitive motions wear out the joints on a space suit?

I doubt past or present space suits come with a 100,000 squat warranty simply because its never been an issue, but for long duration missions it could. Especially with all the dust.

I always liked the idea of using blimps for long range trips.I'm not sure how well those would scale down though.

quasar777 · 2005-12-20 13:04:59

if i were part of design of these, i`d certainly have them heavier than necessary. for one thing, spare parts would be carried, & more durability would equal heaviness as well. the bicycle industry suffered a setback in the 1920`s which many may be unaware of. it`s similar to the 3wheeler ATV debate. this why we haven`t seen that many changes to it. similarly the blimp is still suffering from the hindenburg. bicycles have mostly been relegated to toys by the general public at large. & only since the 70`s, giants like Alan Abbott & Chet Kyle have revived it. that`s not alot of time for innovation. i put links in the other thread for www.ihpva.org . also the fact that American teens turning 16 largely forget about bikes makes for this too. there are wide gaps between the upright bike community & hpvers. as wide as between xc skiers & downhill, windsurfing & regular, harleys & rice-burners. upright bikes still hold sway as recumbents are still too expensive, not as versatile etc..

quasar777 · 2005-12-20 13:09:55

what happened in the 20`s was this. a guy on an upright faired bike crashed in front of the Intl olympic comittee. from then on modified bikes weren`t allowed in Olympics. no one was hurt except the industry.

SpaceNut · 2018-09-18 17:14:52

Small vehicle for once we are capable of staying on the mars surface. Some of which the research can be made with electrical assist motors as well.

Antius wrote:

Speed will be limited by the topography of the terrain, the surface conditions, weight of the vehicle and peddling power of the passenger.
Rolling resistance is equal to weight multiplied by rolling resistance coefficient. According to engineering toolbox, the coefficient for ‘car tire on solid sand, gravel loose worn, soil medium hard’ is 0.04-0.08.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/rolli … _1303.html
For vehicle mass 150kg (70kg man + 80kg vehicle), this would result in a rolling resistance of 22.4-44.7N on Mars. Assume that cyclist power is 250W on average; this would put top speed at 5.6-11.2m/s (20-40km/h) on flat terrain. On hilly terrain or sandy soils, speed will be lower.
4m2 of solar panels covering the vehicle would boost power by ~100W and may only weigh a few kg, so would be a worthwhile addition. On the plus side, electric motors have excellent torque at low speed. So even if power is low, the vehicle will not stop entirely.
Roll-out solar panels would increase weight, but would allow the vehicle to increase range by allowing drinking water to be recycled and oxygen supply to be regenerated. The vehicle should probably stop between late morning and mid-afternoon when insolation is greatest. If this were done, a lithium ion battery capable of storing 1kWh would weigh of a few kg and would extend daily range by ~100km and would greatly reduce reliance on pedalling. All depends on how lightweight those solar panels can be.
I am assuming the astronaut could be equipped with a minimum counter-pressure suit that is relatively lightweight (for excursions away from the vehicle). How much would this weigh?

SpaceNut · 2018-09-19 20:58:16

I have been doing a bit of no weld frame building.

Simple drilling or clamping, using epoxies to build up light weight for the most part.

This would be something for the biking on mars .....

http://tribolttrike.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

The image of the bike appears a bit better in terms pf its build
https://www.motherearthnews.com/green-t … az99fmztak

This one was an interesting steering alteration
http://www.greatuserdocs.com/trike0.htm

single person go cart
https://www.mymydiy.com/go-kart-plans/

This one has a cart basket or trailer in between the front wheels
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2014/05/ … ycles.html

SpaceNut · 2018-09-25 20:38:16

Thanks to the aerodynamic body a velomobile is also the fastest HPV or Human Powered Vehicle around. In 2013 a “Velo X3” velomobile reached an amazing 134 km/h (83 mph) and many people expect the “Arion” velomobile to go even faster when it’s ready for testing in 2015.

http://www.notechmagazine.com/2014/11/t … aphic.html

SpaceNut · 2018-09-26 18:51:48

Pedal powered vehicles are not all that new but when it comes to saving money they are very good at doing just that.

So how do we connect the pedals to make the wheel move can be a challenge or simple or somewhere in between for what one can build.

https://www.pedalchopper.com/3-speed-tr … component/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_d … in_systems

Belter · 2018-09-26 23:16:56

Just make it battery powered. and I think the wheels will have to be quite a bit wider. But a light, tubular frame with some long travel suspension would be great just for short jaunts. A roboticized one could be quite fast, for instance, having the ability to race an astronaut back to a habitat on autopilot at very high speeds. Just make it wide, light, with big wheels and big suspension.

SpaceNut · 2018-10-01 21:18:25

2016-08-03-08.54.34-pm.jpg?resize=765%2C484&ssl=1

Edit had forgotten just how many designs were posted to the topic..

the last post before this one had the ELF:

https://phys.org/news/2016-01-solar-pow … ybrid.html

ELF, modified bicycle pedal crank, and steer and brake with handlebars. The battery kicks in to take it up to a speed of some 40 kilometers (25 miles) per hour.

The Elf has a solar panel on the roof that charges the battery, which offers a range of around 50 kilometers (30 miles)—or more, if you are willing to pedal.

Antius, I think these are about what you have described in "flexible panels of efficiency 22%" High Efficiency Flexible Solar Panels with SUNPOWER cells
http://rvsolarsupplies.com/wp-content/u … ebsite.pdf

SunPower 40W Solar Panel
Flexible, lightweight three panel design folds to 11" x 11" and weighs only 2.2 lbs making it ultra portable

SpaceNut · 2018-10-01 21:31:13

c801124c2d2623226238cfa1b687b8f7--bike-gadgets-cordoba.jpg

elderflower · 2018-10-02 02:33:55

There is no need for streamlining on Mars. You are going to go slowly because of rough terrain and low power and low atmospheric density. There may be high wind velocities but there is hardly any mass flow.

SpaceNut · 2018-10-02 16:46:24

You are quite correct with regards to mars but this does lead into the other topic which is a light weight rover for mars to make use of while not necessarily a lunar buggy design.

Something like this could be the tow behind emergency vehicle or as a general use vehicle for site location exploration when we stop to go outside.

GW Johnson · 2018-10-02 17:16:42

Pedal-powered vehicles on Mars (or the moon) only make sense with a supple, non-restrictive space suit. Gas balloon-type suits will use up more muscle energy just bending, than the vehicle will use up moving in soft dirt. Tens of meters to exhaustion. Not km.

GW

SpaceNut · 2018-10-02 19:39:22

No moon suit unless you can get in with a sealed chamber to depressurize the suit and removing there helmets before thinking of pedaling.

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Re: Quadracycles

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